Re: Independent Contractor model

[Guest guest]

RE Tax shelter and deductibility

Think you prob don't get benefit of tax shelters.

Talk with their accountant.

Somehow they're sharing their overhead. Biggest question to me is if

someone doesn't do well-- who picks up their share of rent, employee

expenses, etc.

Others have thoughts about this?

Dr Matt Levin

FP, Pittsburgh, PA

Solo since Dec 2004

SOAPware user since 1997

EMR consultancy since Jan 2005

Independent Contractor model

> Hi All. Is anyone familiar with the independent contractor (IC) model

> for multi-doc practices? I've recently opened my own solo practice and

> have been approached to join another large practice looking to

> expand. All the docs there are IC's. They get 45% of their gross.

> Taxes, malpractice, cell ... everything else is on me. Something seems

> fishy to me, but the docs in this practice seem to love it. Am i

> missing something?

>

> brad

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

RE Tax shelter and deductibility

Think you prob don't get benefit of tax shelters.

Talk with their accountant.

Somehow they're sharing their overhead. Biggest question to me is if

someone doesn't do well-- who picks up their share of rent, employee

expenses, etc.

Others have thoughts about this?

Dr Matt Levin

FP, Pittsburgh, PA

Solo since Dec 2004

SOAPware user since 1997

EMR consultancy since Jan 2005

Independent Contractor model

> Hi All. Is anyone familiar with the independent contractor (IC) model

> for multi-doc practices? I've recently opened my own solo practice and

> have been approached to join another large practice looking to

> expand. All the docs there are IC's. They get 45% of their gross.

> Taxes, malpractice, cell ... everything else is on me. Something seems

> fishy to me, but the docs in this practice seem to love it. Am i

> missing something?

>

> brad

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

RE Tax shelter and deductibility

Think you prob don't get benefit of tax shelters.

Talk with their accountant.

Somehow they're sharing their overhead. Biggest question to me is if

someone doesn't do well-- who picks up their share of rent, employee

expenses, etc.

Others have thoughts about this?

Dr Matt Levin

FP, Pittsburgh, PA

Solo since Dec 2004

SOAPware user since 1997

EMR consultancy since Jan 2005

Independent Contractor model

> Hi All. Is anyone familiar with the independent contractor (IC) model

> for multi-doc practices? I've recently opened my own solo practice and

> have been approached to join another large practice looking to

> expand. All the docs there are IC's. They get 45% of their gross.

> Taxes, malpractice, cell ... everything else is on me. Something seems

> fishy to me, but the docs in this practice seem to love it. Am i

> missing something?

>

> brad

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I haven't heard much about this.I think it could put you at a little more expense. Would you be covered under Work Comp for an injury?

Here is a link..

http://www.vistastaff.com/pdfs/physicians/physician_tax.pdf

Is that gross charges or collections?

Who gets any monies left over?

If you get 45%, but the costs of collecting the money is only 50%...who gets the 5% left over?

What if the cost is 60% to collect...who is losing the money?

Someone is either making or losing money somewhere.

If one considers that 60% overhead is about average...but you are collecting 45% of gross...but you still have to pay your overhead for insurance, phone, etc...then what is the true overhead for this kind of setup?

I agree with you...it just doesn't sound right.

Can't put my finger on it, though.

Cheers

Locke, MDBasalt, COUniversity of Kansas Medical School 1991Eau (WI) Family Medicine Residency 19945 Years in Air Force -- [Laughlin AFB (Del Rio, TX) // Spangdahlem AB, Germany]Alpine Medical Group -- Private Group Practice since 1999http://www.alpinemedical.mdJob Share w/ WifeAMG went independent from hospital MSO 10/04AMG made downpayment on Centricity EMR 12/04AMG went "live" with Centricity EMR 15 April 2005

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of bradleybrokerSent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:38 PMTo: Subject: Independent Contractor modelHi All. Is anyone familiar with the independent contractor (IC) modelfor multi-doc practices? I've recently opened my own solo practice andhave been approached to join another large practice looking toexpand. All the docs there are IC's. They get 45% of their gross. Taxes, malpractice, cell ... everything else is on me. Something seemsfishy to me, but the docs in this practice seem to love it. Am imissing something?brad

[Guest guest]

I haven't heard much about this.I think it could put you at a little more expense. Would you be covered under Work Comp for an injury?

Here is a link..

http://www.vistastaff.com/pdfs/physicians/physician_tax.pdf

Is that gross charges or collections?

Who gets any monies left over?

If you get 45%, but the costs of collecting the money is only 50%...who gets the 5% left over?

What if the cost is 60% to collect...who is losing the money?

Someone is either making or losing money somewhere.

If one considers that 60% overhead is about average...but you are collecting 45% of gross...but you still have to pay your overhead for insurance, phone, etc...then what is the true overhead for this kind of setup?

I agree with you...it just doesn't sound right.

Can't put my finger on it, though.

Cheers

Locke, MDBasalt, COUniversity of Kansas Medical School 1991Eau (WI) Family Medicine Residency 19945 Years in Air Force -- [Laughlin AFB (Del Rio, TX) // Spangdahlem AB, Germany]Alpine Medical Group -- Private Group Practice since 1999http://www.alpinemedical.mdJob Share w/ WifeAMG went independent from hospital MSO 10/04AMG made downpayment on Centricity EMR 12/04AMG went "live" with Centricity EMR 15 April 2005

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of bradleybrokerSent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:38 PMTo: Subject: Independent Contractor modelHi All. Is anyone familiar with the independent contractor (IC) modelfor multi-doc practices? I've recently opened my own solo practice andhave been approached to join another large practice looking toexpand. All the docs there are IC's. They get 45% of their gross. Taxes, malpractice, cell ... everything else is on me. Something seemsfishy to me, but the docs in this practice seem to love it. Am imissing something?brad

[Guest guest]

I haven't heard much about this.I think it could put you at a little more expense. Would you be covered under Work Comp for an injury?

Here is a link..

http://www.vistastaff.com/pdfs/physicians/physician_tax.pdf

Is that gross charges or collections?

Who gets any monies left over?

If you get 45%, but the costs of collecting the money is only 50%...who gets the 5% left over?

What if the cost is 60% to collect...who is losing the money?

Someone is either making or losing money somewhere.

If one considers that 60% overhead is about average...but you are collecting 45% of gross...but you still have to pay your overhead for insurance, phone, etc...then what is the true overhead for this kind of setup?

I agree with you...it just doesn't sound right.

Can't put my finger on it, though.

Cheers

Locke, MDBasalt, COUniversity of Kansas Medical School 1991Eau (WI) Family Medicine Residency 19945 Years in Air Force -- [Laughlin AFB (Del Rio, TX) // Spangdahlem AB, Germany]Alpine Medical Group -- Private Group Practice since 1999http://www.alpinemedical.mdJob Share w/ WifeAMG went independent from hospital MSO 10/04AMG made downpayment on Centricity EMR 12/04AMG went "live" with Centricity EMR 15 April 2005

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of bradleybrokerSent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:38 PMTo: Subject: Independent Contractor modelHi All. Is anyone familiar with the independent contractor (IC) modelfor multi-doc practices? I've recently opened my own solo practice andhave been approached to join another large practice looking toexpand. All the docs there are IC's. They get 45% of their gross. Taxes, malpractice, cell ... everything else is on me. Something seemsfishy to me, but the docs in this practice seem to love it. Am imissing something?brad

[Guest guest]

This is what I did at my last practice for 4 years, and the one before that where I lasted 6 weeks. I'm not sure how the practice you are considering is structured, but generally they are incorporated and at least one person, may or not be the physician, is the president of the corporation. When I joined the last practice, I thought I would get to be in charge of my portion of the practice, but I was wrong. About 1 year into it, I was really unhappy about having to pay overhead on things I had no decision making ability about. I also felt like I was begging to have any new type of equipment or procedures. Lastly, I didn't have control over the collections or how much effort was put into collections or billing. Lastly, you never really have a piece of anything that is worth anything. Let's just say it was a miserable situation. I know there are lots of other groups here in Columbus who practice in this manner but I won't do it ever again. .

[Guest guest]

Its all in how you calculate the gross. Is lab, other studies,xray

indcluded, excluded. Many of us in this style of medicine have

expenses much less than 45 percent. Also remember many times the

rules change. Who has control of fees, hiring of nureses etc.

good luck

Brent

>

> Hi All. Is anyone familiar with the independent contractor (IC)

model

> for multi-doc practices? I've recently opened my own solo practice

and

> have been approached to join another large practice looking to

> expand. All the docs there are IC's. They get 45% of their

gross.

> Taxes, malpractice, cell ... everything else is on me. Something

seems

> fishy to me, but the docs in this practice seem to love it. Am i

> missing something?

>

> brad

>

[Guest guest]

Its all in how you calculate the gross. Is lab, other studies,xray

indcluded, excluded. Many of us in this style of medicine have

expenses much less than 45 percent. Also remember many times the

rules change. Who has control of fees, hiring of nureses etc.

good luck

Brent

>

> Hi All. Is anyone familiar with the independent contractor (IC)

model

> for multi-doc practices? I've recently opened my own solo practice

and

> have been approached to join another large practice looking to

> expand. All the docs there are IC's. They get 45% of their

gross.

> Taxes, malpractice, cell ... everything else is on me. Something

seems

> fishy to me, but the docs in this practice seem to love it. Am i

> missing something?

>

> brad

>