Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 Hi. Do any of your children have dilated pupils when they should not be? Austin, age 8, his are dilated quite a lot and my opthamologist suggested an MRI just to go fishing. I told her that it could be due to food allergies or heavy metal toxicity...I read that somewhere...but she has never heard of that and is eager to find out why they are so dilated. Any thoughts? I would appreciate it,, Thanks, Jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 Thanks Liz. I will look into that and research those websites. Jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 My son has had dilated pupils off and on as well. He hasn't started chelating. The counting rules showed mercury toxicity wasn't the problem...if I interpreted them correctly, which is one reason I've hesitated about starting chelation. I know I've read many times that dilated pupils are a sign of mercury toxicity. There are other causes as well. My son's doctor suggested I try cod liver oil. I think it was Megson who used CLO with great success on her patients who had eye contact problems, and supposedly it may help with dilated pupils as well. Anyway, after about two weeks of rubbing CLO on my son's bottom (I couldn't get him to eat it), his pupils did mostly get back to normal, though they do occasionally get abnormally dilated, and that was months ago. Another possible cause of dilated pupils someone mentioned on this message board was a B vitamin deficiency. You may be interested to know that my son's pupils became dilated while he was on Primal Defense for six weeks. Primal Defense contains chlorella, which I've since learned possibly stirred up the mercury in his body. Good luck in finding out more. I'll be reading any posts on dilated pupils with great curiousity, as my son's pupils are not back perfectly yet. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 In a message dated 2/17/02 5:17:04 PM EST, rp46285@... writes: << I do know however that when she is reasonable her pupils are normal, when she is " off her rocker " her pupils are dilated. The latter meaning silly, inappropriate, drunken, highly frustrating aggravating behaviour. What I find really worrying is that so many children exhibit this same peculiarity. >> My son is like this too. When his pupils are dilated, he almost always has a bad day (hyperactive, spacey, stimmy or some combination). And although his pupils did normalize somewhat after starting him on CLO, they do often come back while he's still on it, so maybe it was just a coincidence that they first got better while he was on it. I hope someone can shed some light on this. I took my son to an opthamalic neuroligist, who said his pupils contracted and dilated normally, so she wasn't worried, but I still am. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 My daughter who is diagnosed ADHD has the dilated pupils practically always and this feature is of great concern to me. I wonder whether over time the retina will become damaged since they seem to be dilated also outside in the sun. I give my daughter Cod Liver Oil on and off and do not see any difference in the frequency of dilation nor does it seem to be vary by phenol/cassein or gluten intake. In fact I cannot connect it with anything. I do know however that when she is reasonable her pupils are normal, when she is " off her rocker " her pupils are dilated. The latter meaning silly, inappropriate, drunken, highly frustrating aggravating behaviour. What I find really worrying is that so many children exhibit this same peculiarity. We have chelated 5 rounds. Puzzled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 Hi Debbie, > My son has had dilated pupils off and on as well. He hasn't started > chelating. The counting rules showed mercury toxicity wasn't the problem...if > I interpreted them correctly, which is one reason I've hesitated about > starting chelation. that is interesting... I wonder what else can cause this... I know my son always had dilated pupils, I remember I noticed them many times before, but today it was something unusual. They were really big. I don't think I ever saw them like this before. And they were dilated all day long. Mine were dilated too (I also had them dilated in the past on and off) so I thought that maybe today is because of chelation... We just finished a round, so I guess tomorrow and the next days I will keep watching and will let you know... > My son's doctor suggested I try cod > liver oil. I think it was Megson who used CLO with great success on her > patients who had eye contact problems, and supposedly it may help with > dilated pupils as well. Anyway, after about two weeks of rubbing CLO on my > son's bottom (I couldn't get him to eat it), his pupils did mostly get back > to normal, though they do occasionally get abnormally dilated, and that was > months ago. He takes CLO every day. He doesn't have an eye contact problem anymore since we chelate. > Another possible cause of dilated pupils someone mentioned on > this message board was a B vitamin deficiency. I give him a B complex, and he takes it 4 times a day. So... again I'm puzzled > You may be interested to know that my son's pupils became dilated while he > was on Primal Defense for six weeks. Primal Defense contains chlorella, which > I've since learned possibly stirred up the mercury in his body. So this COULD BE because of chelation !?? I'll try more antioxidants tomorrow... > Good luck in finding out more. Thanks Debbie, and thanks for answering Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 > My daughter who is diagnosed ADHD has the dilated pupils practically always > and this feature is of great concern to me. I wonder whether over time the > retina will become damaged since they seem to be dilated also outside in the > sun. Hi , I don't know about that, but I think I have a new problem to read about UFF!! Will these ever end? > I do know however that when she is reasonable her pupils are normal, when > she is " off her rocker " her pupils are dilated. Maybe there are different reasons for this... My son was " ok " all day... I watched him very carefully because I was annoyed by this... not knowing what it might be... but he didn't act unusual or bad... he was ok... (He had the pupils dilated all day long. Nothing changed this) > > Puzzled... LOL me too Hope will find an explanation. I still think (hope) it's just the chelation this time. Anyway, will see tomorrow... Thanks Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 Hi Valentina, Do your eyes feel more sensitive when they are dilated. I mean do you feel you have to squint. Its something I would expect if the eyes are dilated and in the sunlight. And when i think about it my daughters are dilated in the sunshine but she doesnt squint..never. This is worrying me even more. Seems unnatural... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 I am always bothered by bright light. But it was never something really bad. When I go out, I usually get a headache if I stay too long and the light it's too bright. But also, I can't stand the sunglasses. They make my eyes dry for some reason and... I just can't stand them. They're annoying. If I am home... it's almost dark in my room That's how I like it I do have the pupils dilated... some... but to be honest I never thought about it too much. I always knew bright light is a problem (a minor one) and I've noticed my son having the same kind of problem, but... I never really wondered why... Maybe your daughter will feel better too (at least while she's at home) if you do something about the light... Valentina > Hi Valentina, > > Do your eyes feel more sensitive when they are dilated. I mean do you feel > you have to squint. Its something I would expect if the eyes are dilated and > in the sunlight. And when i think about it my daughters are dilated in the > sunshine but she doesnt squint..never. > > This is worrying me even more. Seems unnatural... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 Artificial light bothers me more than sunlight. I find it helpful to use full spectrum lights. S On Sun, 17 February 2002, Valentina Ardelean wrote: > > <html><body> > > > <tt> > I am always bothered by bright light. But it was never something really bad.<BR> > When I go out, I usually get a headache if I stay too long and the light it's<BR> > too bright. But also, I can't stand the sunglasses. They make my eyes dry for<BR> > some reason and... I just can't stand them. They're annoying.<BR> > If I am home... it's almost dark in my room That's how I like it <BR> > I do have the pupils dilated... some... but to be honest I never thought about<BR> > it too much. I always knew bright light is a problem (a minor one) and I've<BR> > noticed my son having the same kind of problem, but... I never really wondered<BR> > why...<BR> > <BR> > Maybe your daughter will feel better too (at least while she's at home) if you<BR> > do something about the light...<BR> > <BR> > <BR> > Valentina<BR> > <BR> > <BR> > & gt; Hi Valentina,<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; Do your eyes feel more sensitive when they are dilated. I mean do you feel<BR> > & gt; you have to squint. Its something I would expect if the eyes are dilated and<BR> > & gt; in the sunlight. And when i think about it my daughters are dilated in the<BR> > & gt; sunshine but she doesnt squint..never.<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; This is worrying me even more. Seems unnatural...<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; <BR> > <BR> > </tt> > > > <br> > <tt> > =======================================================<BR> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 > In a message dated 2/17/02 5:17:04 PM EST, rp46285@o... writes: > > << I do know however that when she is reasonable her pupils are normal, when > she is " off her rocker " her pupils are dilated. The latter meaning silly, > inappropriate, drunken, highly frustrating aggravating behaviour. > > What I find really worrying is that so many children exhibit this same > peculiarity. >> My 8 y.o. is also like this. His pupils are usually somewhat dilated, but when they are very dilated his behavior and attention span go waaay down. CLO has helped his pupils some, but they're still larger than normal. We haven't started chelation yet. He goes to a social group with other HFA kids and ALL these kids have dilated pupils! Including one little girl who, like my boy, is on antifungals and has been on the GFCF diet for several years. We just took him to a behavioral optometrist who said he has convergence insufficiency and would benefit from vision therapy. Do any of your kids have trouble focusing while reading? The optometrist didn't have any comment on the dilated pupils though, other than to ask if he'd ever had a neurological exam. Kat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 >We just took him to a behavioral optometrist who said he has >convergence insufficiency and would benefit from vision therapy. Do >any of your kids have trouble focusing while reading? I think convergence insufficiency is one of the things Andy says (in book) can be caused by mercury. I had convergence insufficiency (among other things) and did vision therapy for about 9 months, about 8 years ago (I was in my 30's at the time). I had radical positive changes to my vision within the first 3 or 4 rounds of ALA too. I do NOT know if these changes would have " spontaneously " fixed my convergence insufficiency, but if I had it all to do again, knowing what I know now, I would FIRST chelate and THEN do VT. Chelation has been subjectively MUCH easier for me than VT was. VT is a lot of work-- I was very committed to it at the time (one would have to be!), but if chelation would have helped or shortened the process, that would have been fine by me! I think optomitrists should screen for heavy metals! JMO. BTW, I am STILL light sensitive (after > 1 year of chelation and counting). Moria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 Debbie, Valentina et al., My daughter's eyes stayed dilated for most of her baby/toddlerhood. This is definitely no longer an issue, but I spent a lot of time wondering and searching about it when she was younger. Dilating pupils are a response of the sympathetic nervous system (the emergency-handling system, basically) which also does the following, which you might want to be observing as well: - inhibits tears; - inhibits salivation; - relaxes airways; - speeds heartbeat; - stimulates sweating and glucose release; - inhibits digestive system; - constricts blood vessels; - stimulates adrenaline from adrenal glands; - relaxes sphincters (bladder and rectum); That last item is interesting, because it may be that this trait stopped about the same time my daughter gained potty control, but it is hard to remember since it was so long ago. Has anyone else seen these two things change together? One thing I did back then was look up in the PDR (which I have on my computer) which drugs cause dilated pupils, because that suggests what other interactions might cause this effect. Eyes, dilatation of pupil is indexed under Mydriasis and is cited under the following brands: AK-Con (naphazoline hydrochloride) alpha adrenergic agonist Albalon Solution with Liquifilm (naphazoline hyrochloride) Alcaine Ophthalmic Solution (sodium channel blocker) Anafranil Capsules (Up to 2%) Arfonad Ampuls (alpha adrenergic blocker) Artane (alpha adrenergic blocker) Asendin Tablets (Less than 1%) Atrofen Tablets (Rare)( Atrohist Plus Tablets Bentyl 10 mg Capsules (anticholinergic) Cantil Tablets Cardioquin Tablets (anticholinergic) Clozaril Tablets (Less than 1%) (benzodiazepine) Cocaine Hydrochloride Topical Solution Cogentin (anti-cholinergic) Compazine (phenothiazine) Ditropan (anti-spasmodic) Donnatal (anti-cholinergic) Dopar Capsules Dopram Injectable Elavil Endep Enlon-Plus Etrafon Foscavir (antiviral pyrophosphate analog) Inversine IOPIDINE Kemadrin Kinesed Kutrase Larodopa Levsin Limbitrol Lioresal Ludiomil Naphcon Navane Norflex Norgesic Forte Norpramin Opcon-A Pamelor Paxil Pro-Banthine Propine Proventil Prozac Quarzan Quinaglute Dura Quinidex Robinul Ru-Tuss Sinemet Soma Stelazine Surmontil Tenuate Thorazine Tofranil Transderm Scop Triavil Trilafon Trinalin Repetabs Tropicacyl Vasocidin Vasocon-A Ventolin Vivactil Wellbutrin Zoloft I'm sure its pretty clear that many of these are psychiatric drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 Hi a1Mommycat, In your post about dilated pupils you refer to other " HFA " kids. What does HFA mean? Many thanks, [ ] Re: dilated pupils > > > In a message dated 2/17/02 5:17:04 PM EST, rp46285@o... writes: > > > > << I do know however that when she is reasonable her pupils are > normal, when > > she is " off her rocker " her pupils are dilated. The latter meaning > silly, > > inappropriate, drunken, highly frustrating aggravating behaviour. > > > > What I find really worrying is that so many children exhibit this > same > > peculiarity. >> > > My 8 y.o. is also like this. His pupils are usually somewhat dilated, > but when they are very dilated his behavior and attention span go > waaay down. CLO has helped his pupils some, but they're still larger > than normal. We haven't started chelation yet. > > He goes to a social group with other HFA kids and ALL these kids have > dilated pupils! Including one little girl who, like my boy, is on > antifungals and has been on the GFCF diet for several years. > > We just took him to a behavioral optometrist who said he has > convergence insufficiency and would benefit from vision therapy. Do > any of your kids have trouble focusing while reading? > > The optometrist didn't have any comment on the dilated pupils though, > other than to ask if he'd ever had a neurological exam. > > Kat > > > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 In a message dated 2/18/02 7:12:18 AM Central Standard Time, val@... writes: > ? Or what kind of > deficiencies could cause this? Does anybody know? any ideas? any good place > to > read about these things? > Thank you. > > > Valentina > > When I first noticed dilated pupils in my son, I went to www.google.com (a search engine), then typed in " dilated pupils " in the search area. I think there were something like 20,000 responses that came back. Should keep you busy in your spare time, lol. Good luck, Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 In a message dated 2/17/02 9:47:38 PM Central Standard Time, a1mommycat@... writes: > We just took him to a behavioral optometrist who said he has > convergence insufficiency and would benefit from vision therapy. Do > any of your kids have trouble focusing while reading? > > The optometrist didn't have any comment on the dilated pupils though, > other than to ask if he'd ever had a neurological exam. > > For what it's worth, my son, whose pupils have only recently begun to have episodes when they're dilated, was examined by a neurological optometrist (or was it an opthamologist?) who said since they consticted normally when she put light to them, that she wasn't worried. He tested perfectly for his age on a vision test. My son is an excellent reader, so I don't think his vision bothers him. But I'm still really darn worried about his pupils. And when they're large, he's generally spacy or hyper. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 In a message dated 2/18/02 9:21:24 AM Central Standard Time, val@... writes: > I did the same in altavista. Lots of pages... but none of the ones I tried to > read is really helpful. Will keep trying though. I need to think about > better > keywords > Maybe try " dilated pupils " AND " autism " or " children " or " mercury " or " vitamin " or....stuff like that. I remember that narrowed the search down for me somewhat. Good luck, Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 Hi, Today my son's pupils still look a little big, but nothing unusual. I mean this is how he always was. I've noticed that today they did react normally at light and dark, but at normal light they remained a little too big. Again, he has a " good " day... not nervous or agitated or worse than usual. So this doesn't affect his behavior. I tend to believe that whatever happened yesterday was because of the chelation. But I still wonder what happens inside the brain that makes pupils stay dilated like this. I imagine it must be something that affects the nerves. What? If this is not just something that mercury causes, what else could produce what kind of toxin (or whatever else) that could affect the nerves like this? Or what kind of deficiencies could cause this? Does anybody know? any ideas? any good place to read about these things? Thank you. Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 High Functioning Autistic Meaning they can talk, reason, most likely good eye contact etc. But still have autistic behaviors. thus a HFA. At 09:28 18/02/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Hi a1Mommycat, > >In your post about dilated pupils you refer to other " HFA " kids. What does >HFA mean? > >Many thanks, > > > [ ] Re: dilated pupils > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/17/02 5:17:04 PM EST, rp46285@o... writes: > > > > > > << I do know however that when she is reasonable her pupils are > > normal, when > > > she is " off her rocker " her pupils are dilated. The latter meaning > > silly, > > > inappropriate, drunken, highly frustrating aggravating behaviour. > > > > > > What I find really worrying is that so many children exhibit this > > same > > > peculiarity. >> > > > > My 8 y.o. is also like this. His pupils are usually somewhat dilated, > > but when they are very dilated his behavior and attention span go > > waaay down. CLO has helped his pupils some, but they're still larger > > than normal. We haven't started chelation yet. > > > > He goes to a social group with other HFA kids and ALL these kids have > > dilated pupils! Including one little girl who, like my boy, is on > > antifungals and has been on the GFCF diet for several years. > > > > We just took him to a behavioral optometrist who said he has > > convergence insufficiency and would benefit from vision therapy. Do > > any of your kids have trouble focusing while reading? > > > > The optometrist didn't have any comment on the dilated pupils though, > > other than to ask if he'd ever had a neurological exam. > > > > Kat > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 Dear , Thank-you for the explanation. Its still worrying that so many children have dilated pupils. I have noticed in normal. In the same sunlight some children have small pupils and then some ( again in the same sunlight) have very large pupils. I understand this is mercury poisoning but I would like to know the mechanism behind it. Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 At 09:28 AM 2/18/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Hi a1Mommycat, > >In your post about dilated pupils you refer to other " HFA " kids. What does >HFA mean? High funtioning autism See also: /files/Glossary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 Hi Debbie, I did the same in altavista. Lots of pages... but none of the ones I tried to read is really helpful. Will keep trying though. I need to think about better keywords All I found so far is about different drugs that cause the pupils to dilate. That's why I was wondering if somehow our kids have some neurotransmitter or something else in there that goes to the wrong receptors... or something like this... I need to read more... I'll let you know if I find something. Valentina > When I first noticed dilated pupils in my son, I went to www.google.com (a > search engine), then typed in " dilated pupils " in the search area. I think > there were something like 20,000 responses that came back. Should keep you > busy in your spare time, lol. > > Good luck, > Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 My son's dilated pupils improved dramatically when he started the GFCF diet. We have since gone off the diet after chelating for many months, and the pupils have stayed normal size. I believe if you search the autism websites you will find some mention of dilated pupils and the diet. Kathy Re: [ ] Re: dilated pupils Hi Debbie, I did the same in altavista. Lots of pages... but none of the ones I tried to read is really helpful. Will keep trying though. I need to think about better keywords All I found so far is about different drugs that cause the pupils to dilate. That's why I was wondering if somehow our kids have some neurotransmitter or something else in there that goes to the wrong receptors... or something like this... I need to read more... I'll let you know if I find something. Valentina > When I first noticed dilated pupils in my son, I went to www.google.com (a > search engine), then typed in " dilated pupils " in the search area. I think > there were something like 20,000 responses that came back. Should keep you > busy in your spare time, lol. > > Good luck, > Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 > Hi a1Mommycat, > > In your post about dilated pupils you refer to other " HFA " kids. What does > HFA mean? > Hi , I've been offline for a few days and just saw your message, and it looks like others have already answered it, pretty much...Anyway, my son and these other kids are very verbal, appear neurotypical in many ways, but still have issues related to autism. My son is very obsessed with maps, for example. He still has sensory and attention problems. He has a lot of trouble dealing with change. Socially these kids really struggle. Another boy who befriended my son was teased for playing with " the wierd kid. " Not everyone who knows him realizes he is diagnosed with a type of autism, but if they spend much time with him they realize there is something " different " about him. Kat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 My son is 8 and has been with Dr. G since he was two. We had dilated pupils for years and at first I didn't even notice it. (I think I was paying attention to so many other things that it was not all that important in my mind.) Dr. G actually brought it to my attention and said it was another way to see that his immune system was still a little " off " . Sure enough, about a year and a half ago, they are normal. He is not as sensitive to sunlight and is much happier. He is in regular 2nd grade with an aide but doing very well. He does portions of the day by himself, but still needs help with the barrage of language that sometimes accompanies new directions from the teacher. Lori in PA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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