Re: Breath Holding During Exercises

[Guest guest]

Mel and I discussed this in person once. There may also be something in the

archives on how much air to hold and what your options are on releasing or

holding.

For one thing, punching is a much shorter duration - in lifting, holding

your breath on the down stroke and through the tightest phase is the way to

succeed with a heavy weight. After that though, it can vary with the

individual. For example, the stupidest move on the planet in the squat is

to EXHALE on the way DOWN....and anyone who has done THAT knows what I'm

talking about lol... Do that once and you will NEVER do it again!

I have always yelled locking out max deadlifts and what Mel told me was that

it was actually helping me lock out the lift. That is, while you need to

hold the air at the lowest point - that progressively releasing air can help

you lock out the bar. Yelling apparently releases air at a rate that aids

lockout, it's a measured release. Mel also told me that a chest of air

that's around 75% of capacity is ideal, that is, not a FULL chest but near

it...that a full chest to exploding can inhibit the lift. That makes sense

to me in the deadlift as you may find getting to the bar very difficult IF

you are holding as MUCH as you can possibly get in and then bending over...

I have also recently started yelling during max benches and oddly this seems

to help me lock out there as well!

I have seen a lot of lifters yell locking out heavy powerlifts over the

years too.

I have a pretty intense psyche job going before i start deadlifts as it is,

but the yelling at lockout appears to be my body's way of getting the bar to

the finished position. So I tend to get fired up yelling before I commence

the lift, and then yell to achieve lockout during the lift. Referees over

the years have commented on this lol.... you can tell who hasn't been around

me before as they're usually flinching hard on the video!

Hobman would be another good person to comment on this as he does both

martial arts and competes at a high level of powerlifting.

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

It was written:

>I was contemplating the issue of holding your breath during a bench

> press or squat compared to breathing out or screaming on the lockout of

> either movement. Some bench press or squat experts would suggest

> holding your breath for the duration of the movement. I was talking

> with my son's Taekwondo coach on the importance of keying up

> (screaming/yelling) while punching, kicking etc. and wondered if there

> is a correlation in yelling/screaming on the bench press or squat to

> exert force from the core like martial arts claim is done while keying

> up during punches etc.. Any suggestions, or scientific proof of breath

> or not to breath?

>

> Mike Kenney

> Rochester, NY

[Guest guest]

The whole theory that you are exerting force from the core to contribute

to movement of the limbs is completely wrong. The idea of holding you

breath during powerlifting movements is to stabilize the spinal column

by creating intra-abdominal pressure (IAP). I don't think there is any

validation of screaming actually contributing to force. If the motor

pattern is internalised the kinaesthetic feeling associated with proper

technique is developed to a 'template' level and possibly screaming can

allow attenaution on other areas that may develop force. Highly

theoretical and of questionable value, though.

In complex motor patterns the force developed by major muscles can be

dissipitated when being transfered through the core. In a squat the

major motive forces are in the lower body, but the bar rests on the

shoulders. So you don't want to lose force or break technique through a

weak core. IAP is crucial and holding your breath appears to be the best

way.

Personally as a martial artist (wado-kai karate) I think the screaming

helps the artist focus and overcome trepidition in things like board

breaking. But there are other ways.

titangear4sale wrote:

> I was contemplating the issue of holding your breath during a bench

> press or squat compared to breathing out or screaming on the lockout of

> either movement. Some bench press or squat experts would suggest

> holding your breath for the duration of the movement. I was talking

> with my son's Taekwondo coach on the importance of keying up

> (screaming/yelling) while punching, kicking etc. and wondered if there

> is a correlation in yelling/screaming on the bench press or squat to

> exert force from the core like martial arts claim is done while keying

> up during punches etc.. Any suggestions, or scientific proof of breath

> or not to breath?

>

> Mike Kenney

> Rochester, NY

>

>

--

Hobman

Saskatoon, CANADA

[Guest guest]

I like yelling too, but it tends to frighten the gentle folks at 24 Hour

Fitness.

Brett

Draper, UT

________________________________

From: Supertraining on behalf of Schaefer

Sent: Mon 9/25/2006 10:18 AM

To: Supertraining

Subject: Re: Breath Holding During Exercises

<<<Mel and I discussed this in person once. There may also be something in the

archives on how much air to hold and what your options are on releasing or

holding.

For one thing, punching is a much shorter duration - in lifting, holding

your breath on the down stroke and through the tightest phase is the way to

succeed with a heavy weight. After that though, it can vary with the

individual. For example, the stupidest move on the planet in the squat is

to EXHALE on the way DOWN....and anyone who has done THAT knows what I'm

talking about lol... Do that once and you will NEVER do it again!

I have always yelled locking out max deadlifts and what Mel told me was that

it was actually helping me lock out the lift. That is, while you need to

hold the air at the lowest point - that progressively releasing air can help

you lock out the bar. Yelling apparently releases air at a rate that aids

lockout, it's a measured release. Mel also told me that a chest of air

that's around 75% of capacity is ideal, that is, not a FULL chest but near

it...that a full chest to exploding can inhibit the lift. That makes sense

to me in the deadlift as you may find getting to the bar very difficult IF

you are holding as MUCH as you can possibly get in and then bending over...

I have also recently started yelling during max benches and oddly this seems

to help me lock out there as well!

I have seen a lot of lifters yell locking out heavy powerlifts over the

years too.

I have a pretty intense psyche job going before i start deadlifts as it is,

but the yelling at lockout appears to be my body's way of getting the bar to

the finished position. So I tend to get fired up yelling before I commence

the lift, and then yell to achieve lockout during the lift. Referees over

the years have commented on this lol.... you can tell who hasn't been around

me before as they're usually flinching hard on the video!

Hobman would be another good person to comment on this as he does both

martial arts and competes at a high level of powerlifting.>>>

[Guest guest]

I think a similar case could be made for it helping weight lifters

as the use of all of ones power feels primal [to me any way] so

perhaps its our psyches getting in touch with our more primal side lol

Greenland

Sussex UK

Hobman wrote:

> Personally as a martial artist (wado-kai karate) I think the

screaming

> helps the artist focus and overcome trepidition in things like

board

> breaking. But there are other ways.

>

> titangear4sale wrote:

>

> > I was contemplating the issue of holding your breath during a

bench

> > press or squat compared to breathing out or screaming on the

lockout of

> > either movement. Some bench press or squat experts would suggest

> > holding your breath for the duration of the movement. I was

talking

> > with my son's Taekwondo coach on the importance of keying up

> > (screaming/yelling) while punching, kicking etc. and wondered if

there

> > is a correlation in yelling/screaming on the bench press or squat

to

> > exert force from the core like martial arts claim is done while

keying

> > up during punches etc.. Any suggestions, or scientific proof of

breath

> > or not to breath?

> >

> > Mike Kenney

> > Rochester, NY

[Guest guest]

> The idea of holding you

> breath during powerlifting movements is to stabilize the spinal column

> by creating intra-abdominal pressure (IAP).

***

This is the 'Vasalva' maneuver and it does increase IAP, but it also

increases your blood pressure. BP can reach really dangerous levels

when you exert great force while holding your breath. If you happen

to have an aneurism somewhere you can rupture it causing stroke (if

it's in the brain) and/or death from internal bleeding. It's much

better to work your stabilizing musculature to the point where you

don't need to do this.

Fair winds and happy bytes,

Dave Flory,

Flower Mound, TX., USA

--

[Guest guest]

>

> The whole theory that you are exerting force from the core to

contribute

> to movement of the limbs is completely wrong. The idea of holding you

> breath during powerlifting movements is to stabilize the spinal

column

> by creating intra-abdominal pressure (IAP). I don't think there is

any

> validation of screaming actually contributing to force.

***

I recall Ikai and Steinhaus (1961) carried out research regarding

disinhibition of inhibitory mechanisms, which indicated that shouting

during maximal strength exertions augmented performance. I am assuming

that the study involved novice weight trainers and that the strength testing was

carried out on some type of machine apparatus?

Carruthers

Wakefield, UK

[Guest guest]

It seems that there is always someone who while acknowledging the spinal support

the valsava maneuver gives always feel obligated to point out the dangers. Then

they suggest that the valsava maneuver is not necessary if one builds up their

core stability or strength. I get a sense that person isn't a 600+ squatter and

has never personally experienced the extra strength and stability the maneuver

gives with some reporting 50lbs added to their squat. Also one has to ask

whether anyone squatting that much or more could be considered having a weak

core.

Hal Lloyd

Nome AK

=========

Schaefer wrote:

Mel and I discussed this in person once. There may also be something

in the

archives on how much air to hold and what your options are on releasing or

holding.

For one thing, punching is a much shorter duration - in lifting, holding

your breath on the down stroke and through the tightest phase is the way to

succeed with a heavy weight. After that though, it can vary with the

individual. For example, the stupidest move on the planet in the squat is

to EXHALE on the way DOWN....and anyone who has done THAT knows what I'm

talking about lol... Do that once and you will NEVER do it again!

I have always yelled locking out max deadlifts and what Mel told me was that

it was actually helping me lock out the lift. That is, while you need to

hold the air at the lowest point - that progressively releasing air can help

you lock out the bar. Yelling apparently releases air at a rate that aids

lockout, it's a measured release. Mel also told me that a chest of air

that's around 75% of capacity is ideal, that is, not a FULL chest but near

it...that a full chest to exploding can inhibit the lift. That makes sense

to me in the deadlift as you may find getting to the bar very difficult IF

you are holding as MUCH as you can possibly get in and then bending over...

I have also recently started yelling during max benches and oddly this seems

to help me lock out there as well!

I have seen a lot of lifters yell locking out heavy powerlifts over the

years too.

I have a pretty intense psyche job going before i start deadlifts as it is,

but the yelling at lockout appears to be my body's way of getting the bar to

the finished position. So I tend to get fired up yelling before I commence

the lift, and then yell to achieve lockout during the lift. Referees over

the years have commented on this lol.... you can tell who hasn't been around

me before as they're usually flinching hard on the video!

Hobman would be another good person to comment on this as he does both

martial arts and competes at a high level of powerlifting.

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

It was written:

>I was contemplating the issue of holding your breath during a bench

> press or squat compared to breathing out or screaming on the lockout of

> either movement. Some bench press or squat experts would suggest

> holding your breath for the duration of the movement. I was talking

> with my son's Taekwondo coach on the importance of keying up

> (screaming/yelling) while punching, kicking etc. and wondered if there

> is a correlation in yelling/screaming on the bench press or squat to

> exert force from the core like martial arts claim is done while keying

> up during punches etc.. Any suggestions, or scientific proof of breath

> or not to breath?

>

> Mike Kenney

> Rochester, NY

[Guest guest]

Speaking as one who has squatted 600+ in powerlifting competition.

Amen, brother.

And I suspect the 600 number is arbitrary and would also agree

with this - also in regard to her beloved deadlift. When doing a maximal

squat or deadlift (or clean or jerk or snatch) you hold your breath at

points in the lift.

harold lloyd wrote:

> It seems that there is always someone who while acknowledging the

> spinal support the valsava maneuver gives always feel obligated to

> point out the dangers. Then they suggest that the valsava maneuver is

> not necessary if one builds up their core stability or strength. I get

> a sense that person isn't a 600+ squatter and has never personally

> experienced the extra strength and stability the maneuver gives with

> some reporting 50lbs added to their squat. Also one has to ask whether

> anyone squatting that much or more could be considered having a weak

> core.

>

> Hal Lloyd

> Nome AK

>

> =========

>

> Schaefer <thephantom198@...

> <mailto:thephantom198%40ix.netcom.com>> wrote:

> Mel and I discussed this in person once. There may also be something

> in the

> archives on how much air to hold and what your options are on

> releasing or

> holding.

>

> For one thing, punching is a much shorter duration - in lifting, holding

> your breath on the down stroke and through the tightest phase is the

> way to

> succeed with a heavy weight. After that though, it can vary with the

> individual. For example, the stupidest move on the planet in the squat is

> to EXHALE on the way DOWN....and anyone who has done THAT knows what I'm

> talking about lol... Do that once and you will NEVER do it again!

>

> I have always yelled locking out max deadlifts and what Mel told me

> was that

> it was actually helping me lock out the lift. That is, while you need to

> hold the air at the lowest point - that progressively releasing air

> can help

> you lock out the bar. Yelling apparently releases air at a rate that aids

> lockout, it's a measured release. Mel also told me that a chest of air

> that's around 75% of capacity is ideal, that is, not a FULL chest but

> near

> it...that a full chest to exploding can inhibit the lift. That makes

> sense

> to me in the deadlift as you may find getting to the bar very

> difficult IF

> you are holding as MUCH as you can possibly get in and then bending

> over...

>

> I have also recently started yelling during max benches and oddly this

> seems

> to help me lock out there as well!

>

> I have seen a lot of lifters yell locking out heavy powerlifts over the

> years too.

>

> I have a pretty intense psyche job going before i start deadlifts as

> it is,

> but the yelling at lockout appears to be my body's way of getting the

> bar to

> the finished position. So I tend to get fired up yelling before I

> commence

> the lift, and then yell to achieve lockout during the lift. Referees over

> the years have commented on this lol.... you can tell who hasn't been

> around

> me before as they're usually flinching hard on the video!

>

> Hobman would be another good person to comment on this as he

> does both

> martial arts and competes at a high level of powerlifting.

>

> The Phantom

> aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

> Denver, Colorado, USA

--

Hobman

Saskatoon, CANADA

[Guest guest]

> It seems that there is always someone who while acknowledging the

> spinal support the valsava maneuver gives always feel obligated to

> point out the dangers. Then they suggest that the valsava maneuver

> is not necessary if one builds up their core stability or

> strength. I get a sense that person isn't a 600+ squatter and has

> never personally experienced the extra strength and stability the

> maneuver gives with some reporting 50lbs added to their squat.

> Also one has to ask whether anyone squatting that much or more

> could be considered having a weak core.

****

I'm a little puzzled at this reply, if it's a reply to my message.

First I never acknowledged that vasalva gives spinal support, I

identified the breath holding maneuver and suggested a possible

danger to the technique. You're right I'm not, and never have been a

600lb squatter, however at 150 lbs body weight I was able to squat

310 lbs, 10 reps. not too bad. I feel that if people want to use this

technique to eke out some extra lbs. that's fine, but they should do

so intelligently.

Fair winds and happy bytes,

Dave Flory, Flower Mound, TX., USA

--

Speak softly, study Aikido, & you won't need to carry a big stick!

See my photos @ <http://homepage.mac.com/dflory>