Re: Unapproved Lyme disease treatment harmful, FDA warns

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:35:35 +0100, you wrote:

>It makes me wonder if this is an overreaction , we all want safe drugs , but

>is there such a thing? Bismuth is effective against HP taken as an oral

>compound .Anyone had any experience of this ..

No, but Coconut oil and Mastic gum work well.

[Guest guest]

Well the FDA made Pepto Bismol change their label in 2004 in a number of ways. Mainly to check with a doctor if you have any of a number of medical conditions. Plus, they're no longer allowed to print dosing for children under 12. Make you wonder. penny Jaep <Jaep@...> wrote: It makes me wonder if this is an overreaction , we all want safe drugs , but is there such a

thing? Bismuth is effective against HP taken as an oral compound .Anyone had any experience of this .. http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/07/21/lyme.disease.reut/index.htmlUnapproved Lyme disease treatment harmful, FDA warnsWASHINGTON (Reuters) -- An unapproved compound mixed by pharmacists to treatLyme disease should not be used, U.S. health officials warned Friday, afterone person died and another was hospitalized earlier this

year.The Food and Drug Administration said other users of the compound, calledbismacine, have reported severe side effects that can include kidney failureand cardiovascular collapse.The agency said it was investigating all reported cases but did not say howmany people had reported problems.Bismacine, also known as chromocine, contains large amounts of the metalbismuth, used in some medications to treat ulcer-causing bacteria, accordingto the FDA.In March, one person was hospitalized after receiving the compound. InApril, another person died from the treatment, the agency said.Some doctors have been known to administer the injectable solution to treatthe disease, which is caused by bacteria often spread by tick bites; ifuntreated, Lyme can affect the nervous system, joints and heart. Some stateshave already taken legal action against such physicians.The FDA said it was evaluating those who

supply the compound. Anyone who hastaken the product and is concerned about side effects may want to seekmedical care, it added.Copyright 2006 Reuters.=====http://www.webmd.com/content/article/125/115962.htmFDA: Lyme Disease Compound RiskyBismacine, an Unapproved Compound, Linked to 1 Death By Miranda HittiWebMD Medical News Reviewed By Louise Chang, MDon Friday, July 21, 2006July 21, 2006 -- The FDA today warned consumers and health care providersnot to use an unapproved product called "bismacine," also known aschromacine, that's sometimes used to treat Lyme diseaseLyme disease.The FDA is investigating one report of a death and several reports of injuryrelated to the administration of bismacine.Bismacine is an injectable product that has been used to treat Lyme disease,which is a tick-borne

bacterial infection. But bismacine is not approved foranything, including Lyme disease.Bismacine is not a pharmaceutical and is mixed individually by druggists. Itis prescribed or administered by doctors of "alternative health" or bypeople claiming to be medical doctors, according to the FDA.Bismacine contains high amounts of bismuth, a heavy metal that is used insome medications taken by mouth to treat Helicobacter pylori, bacteria thatcan cause stomach ulcersulcers. But bismuth is not approved in any form foruse by injection.The FDA reports that on April 20, 2006, one person died as a result oftreatment with bismacine, and on March 29, 2005, another person washospitalized after receiving a bismacine treatment."Other individuals who have used or been administered this product have alsosuffered serious adverse events. Possible effects of bismuth poisoninginclude cardiovascular collapse and kidney

failurekidney failure," states anFDA news release.People who believe they have suffered adverse events from receivingbismacine "may wish to seek medical attention," states the FDA.The FDA is evaluating the product's suppliers and pledges to take"additional action as appropriate." Meanwhile, the FDA asks that adversereactions to bismacine be reported to the FDA's MedWatch adverse eventreporting program by any of these methods:a.. Internet: www.fda.gov/MedWatch/report.htmb.. Phone: (800) FDA-1088 (800-332-1088)c.. Fax: (800) FDA-0178 (800-332-0178)d.. Mail: MedWatch, 5600 Fishers Lane, Rockville, MD 20852-9787Mailed reports should use postage-paid FDA form 3500, which may bedownloaded from www.fda.gov/MedWatch/getforms.htm.----------------------------------------------------------SOURCES: News release, FDA. WebMD Medical Reference in

collaboration withThe Cleveland Clinic: "Arthritis: Lyme Disease."© 2006 WebMD Inc.

[Guest guest]

That's right! I wish I wouldn't keep forgetting about all these wonderful natural things. I need to get some mastic gum to have on hand, but it doesn't help if I forget the purpose of it. I do have coconut oil, but I also forget to take that. I need to start again. Not only is it good all around, and an antimicrobial, it helps my digestion which has been sluggish lately since adding a new medication. pennymary@... wrote: On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:35:35 +0100, you wrote:>It

makes me wonder if this is an overreaction , we all want safe drugs , but>is there such a thing? Bismuth is effective against HP taken as an oral>compound .Anyone had any experience of this ..No, but Coconut oil and Mastic gum work well.

[Guest guest]

Nice find. Oral bismuth probably is absorbed from the gut only in

traces, I'm guessing / half-recalling - whereas these people are

talking injection.

This (being also a heavy metal) may be along the lines of Tarellos

arsenic treatment. I'm very interested in any info that comes up

about this, if anyone gets such info. I dont know if its remotely

safe (obviously FDA thinks not), but its of great theoretic interest

at least.

>

> It makes me wonder if this is an overreaction , we all want safe

drugs , but

> is there such a thing? Bismuth is effective against HP taken as

an oral

> compound .Anyone had any experience of this ..

>

>

>

> http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/07/21/lyme.disease.reut/index.html

>

> Unapproved Lyme disease treatment harmful, FDA warns

>

> WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- An unapproved compound mixed by pharmacists

to treat

> Lyme disease should not be used, U.S. health officials warned

Friday, after

> one person died and another was hospitalized earlier this year.

[Guest guest]

Isn't gold also injected. Bismuth is next to lead on

the periodic table. weights about the same. I would

think getting these heavy metals out of the body,

would be very hard. you may never get it all out.

--- <usenethod@...> wrote:

> Nice find. Oral bismuth probably is absorbed from

> the gut only in

> traces, I'm guessing / half-recalling - whereas

> these people are

> talking injection.

>

> This (being also a heavy metal) may be along the

> lines of Tarellos

> arsenic treatment. I'm very interested in any info

> that comes up

> about this, if anyone gets such info. I dont know if

> its remotely

> safe (obviously FDA thinks not), but its of great

> theoretic interest

> at least.

>

>

>

> >

> > It makes me wonder if this is an overreaction , we

> all want safe

> drugs , but

> > is there such a thing? Bismuth is effective

> against HP taken as

> an oral

> > compound .Anyone had any experience of this ..

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/07/21/lyme.disease.reut/index.html

> >

> > Unapproved Lyme disease treatment harmful, FDA

> warns

> >

> > WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- An unapproved compound

> mixed by pharmacists

> to treat

> > Lyme disease should not be used, U.S. health

> officials warned

> Friday, after

> > one person died and another was hospitalized

> earlier this year.

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I think gold is actually a mainstream thing. I dont think gold has

much/any of the activity that is shared (I'm guessing, tho there may

be differences in the activity) by arsenic, mercury, and such.

I wonder if these people getting in trouble for this treatment are

scholarly... ie have read Tarello, know about arsenical treatments

used (not very commonly) in modern mainstream cancer treatment, etc.

Or on the other hand are they just exhuming this from the pre-

contemporary medical tradition without learning the latest about it.

Heavy metal therapy was used waaaay back in the times, even before

Ehrlich produced the less-toxic arsenic compound salvarsan 606 for

syphilis in 1908. Check toward the bottom of Marie Krouns nfkb page

for one account of apparant lyme disease in (apparantly) France or

perhaps Quebec, 1922:

http://lymerick.ulmarweb.dk/NFkB.htm

The " novarsenobenzol " used on this patient must be some other arsenic

derivative. Lots of them were prepared and tested; salvarsan 606 was

the 606th prepared by Ehrlichs lab alone.

Even 606 was still toxic as hell in effective doses. But the old

stuff before 606 was worse. Darwin for example took alot of mercury

(I dont know in what form); this was employed in 19th century

medicine and may go back way further. Darwin had something like IBD

or CFS with multisystemic manifestations, fairly bad, inlcuding

neurologic.

Syphilis, you know, is an obligate parasite, which maybe explains

alot about why it cant cope very well with arsenic (I'd have to look

it up to be sure). Its has probably evolved to rely on the hosts

detox capacities to provide a rleatively low-arsenic environment.

Free-living bacteria, with their much larger genomes and ability to

cope with things that happen in non-bodily environments, may or may

not be alot more resistant to arsenic, I dono. But I havent heard of

salvarsan being successful in any other diseases other than syphilis

back when it and other metals were pretty much the one antibacterial,

as far as I know - ie before the development of prontosil and

penicillin in subsequent decades (~1935 for prontosil and ~1944 for

penicillin).

Incidentally one of the prontosil guys tried the drug on his daughter

when she had a septicemia, at a time when prontosil was still being

worked on in the lab. I think that was the first human test. I dont

know how much safety data on it he had. It didnt really matter,

because in those days people with infections like that were pretty

likely to die.

>

> Isn't gold also injected. Bismuth is next to lead on

> the periodic table. weights about the same. I would

> think getting these heavy metals out of the body,

> would be very hard. you may never get it all out.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear All

Novasenobenzol syn neoarsphenamine is basically two modified benzene rings linked by two arsenic atoms

Indicated uses are for ,babesiosis contagious pleuropneumonia (Mycoplasma pneumonia?) , petechial fever

Regards

Windsor

[infections] Re: Unapproved Lyme disease treatment harmful, FDA warns

I think gold is actually a mainstream thing. I dont think gold has much/any of the activity that is shared (I'm guessing, tho there may be differences in the activity) by arsenic, mercury, and such. I wonder if these people getting in trouble for this treatment are scholarly... ie have read Tarello, know about arsenical treatments used (not very commonly) in modern mainstream cancer treatment, etc. Or on the other hand are they just exhuming this from the pre-contemporary medical tradition without learning the latest about it. Heavy metal therapy was used waaaay back in the times, even before Ehrlich produced the less-toxic arsenic compound salvarsan 606 for syphilis in 1908. Check toward the bottom of Marie Krouns nfkb page for one account of apparant lyme disease in (apparantly) France or perhaps Quebec, 1922:http://lymerick.ulmarweb.dk/NFkB.htmThe "novarsenobenzol" used on this patient must be some other arsenic derivative. Lots of them were prepared and tested; salvarsan 606 was the 606th prepared by Ehrlichs lab alone.Even 606 was still toxic as hell in effective doses. But the old stuff before 606 was worse. Darwin for example took alot of mercury (I dont know in what form); this was employed in 19th century medicine and may go back way further. Darwin had something like IBD or CFS with multisystemic manifestations, fairly bad, inlcuding neurologic.Syphilis, you know, is an obligate parasite, which maybe explains alot about why it cant cope very well with arsenic (I'd have to look it up to be sure). Its has probably evolved to rely on the hosts detox capacities to provide a rleatively low-arsenic environment. Free-living bacteria, with their much larger genomes and ability to cope with things that happen in non-bodily environments, may or may not be alot more resistant to arsenic, I dono. But I havent heard of salvarsan being successful in any other diseases other than syphilis back when it and other metals were pretty much the one antibacterial, as far as I know - ie before the development of prontosil and penicillin in subsequent decades (~1935 for prontosil and ~1944 for penicillin). Incidentally one of the prontosil guys tried the drug on his daughter when she had a septicemia, at a time when prontosil was still being worked on in the lab. I think that was the first human test. I dont know how much safety data on it he had. It didnt really matter, because in those days people with infections like that were pretty likely to die. >> Isn't gold also injected. Bismuth is next to lead on> the periodic table. weights about the same. I would> think getting these heavy metals out of the body,> would be very hard. you may never get it all out.>

[Guest guest]

On a similar note. I know a dentist who worries more about nickel's toxicity than mercury's. He said that many people unwittingly have nickel in their mouths because of the less than honest dentists who often insert crowns that look like porcelain but are in fact porcelain veneers over nickel. Much cheaper than 100% porcelain and the patient doesn't know any better. He says his biggest concern about mercury is that it expands and cracks the teeth, which of course gives bacteria a pipeline into the jaw. penny <usenethod@...> wrote: I think gold is actually a mainstream thing. I dont think gold has much/any of the activity that is shared (I'm guessing, tho there may be differences in the activity) by arsenic, mercury, and such. I wonder if these people getting in trouble for this treatment are scholarly... ie have read Tarello, know about arsenical treatments used (not very commonly) in modern mainstream cancer treatment, etc. Or on the other hand are they just exhuming this from the pre-contemporary medical tradition without learning the latest about it. Heavy metal therapy was used waaaay back in the times, even before Ehrlich produced the less-toxic arsenic compound salvarsan 606 for syphilis in 1908. Check toward the bottom of Marie Krouns nfkb page for one account of apparant lyme disease in (apparantly) France or perhaps Quebec,

1922:http://lymerick.ulmarweb.dk/NFkB.htmThe "novarsenobenzol" used on this patient must be some other arsenic derivative. Lots of them were prepared and tested; salvarsan 606 was the 606th prepared by Ehrlichs lab alone.Even 606 was still toxic as hell in effective doses. But the old stuff before 606 was worse. Darwin for example took alot of mercury (I dont know in what form); this was employed in 19th century medicine and may go back way further. Darwin had something like IBD or CFS with multisystemic manifestations, fairly bad, inlcuding neurologic.Syphilis, you know, is an obligate parasite, which maybe explains alot about why it cant cope very well with arsenic (I'd have to look it up to be sure). Its has probably evolved to rely on the hosts detox capacities to provide a rleatively low-arsenic environment. Free-living bacteria,

with their much larger genomes and ability to cope with things that happen in non-bodily environments, may or may not be alot more resistant to arsenic, I dono. But I havent heard of salvarsan being successful in any other diseases other than syphilis back when it and other metals were pretty much the one antibacterial, as far as I know - ie before the development of prontosil and penicillin in subsequent decades (~1935 for prontosil and ~1944 for penicillin). Incidentally one of the prontosil guys tried the drug on his daughter when she had a septicemia, at a time when prontosil was still being worked on in the lab. I think that was the first human test. I dont know how much safety data on it he had. It didnt really matter, because in those days people with infections like that were pretty likely to die. >> Isn't gold also injected. Bismuth is next to lead on> the periodic table. weights about the same. I would> think getting these heavy metals out of the body,> would be very hard. you may never get it all out.>

[Guest guest]

Well... I'm type " O " and I use a ton of coconut oil.

I migrated to coconut oil after I discovered Lauricidin was a benefit

to me.

Barb

>

> That's right! I wish I wouldn't keep forgetting about all these

> wonderful natural things. I need to get some mastic gum to have on

> hand, but it doesn't help if I forget the purpose of it. I do have

> coconut oil, but I also forget to take that. I need to start again.

> Not only is it good all around, and an antimicrobial, it helps my

> digestion which has been sluggish lately since adding a new

> medication.

>

> penny

>