Jump to content
RemedySpot.com

Re: Cholesterol info

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Dear all,

am really interested in the whole cholesterol debate, particularly as i've

just recently read " The Cholesterol myths " by Uffe Ravnskov. It very

convincingly and in a rigorously researched manner presents the evidence

that neither cholesterol nor saturated fats are causes of heart disease. He

carefully dissects all the different trials, and i must say it's persuaded

me to reconsider the dietary advice i'm giving to people... (and that's me

having been a (semi-)vegetarian for many years - talk about pulling the

carpet from under your own feet!!) Has anybody else read this book? I'd be

really interested in a discussion!

Even though i had known for some time that pharmaceutical politics were

behind the push for statins, i strangely enough hadn't copped on to the

extent to which commercial clout has obviously penetrated the whole research

establishment, creating " eminence based medicine " , and influencing the

outcome/presentation of so-called objective scientific studies which then

form the basis for both public opinion and " professional " medical advice.

(BTW, can also recommend " Calculated risks - How to know when numbers

deceive you " by G Gigerenzer see review at

www.aapsonline.org/jpands/vol9no1/bookreviews.pdf )

If I do accept that cholesterol/LDL levels have no causative role in heart

disease in anybody without familial hypercholesterolaemia, and further that

diet doesn't affect those levels (if we cut down on intake our livers will

simply make up for the difference), then what am i doing giving herbs to

reduce cholesterol and telling people to cut out the cream?? Like Sharita I

have found that nervines do seem to make some difference, but that may

simply be due to the fact that during stress the body's cholesterol

requirement increases - reduce the stress, reduce the requirement.

It still seems to be accepted that we try to lower Pts' cholesterol levels

with herbs and diet. Is there any justification for such a strategy? What

dietary advice do we give to people re (good quality, organic) saturated

fats? And why and on what evidence? What is people's response to Ravnskov's

book?

I'd love your input!

All the best

Sabine

Sabine Hiller BSc(Hons) MIIMH MNIMH

Medical Herbalist

Knockrooskey

Westport

Co.Mayo

Tel. 098-35909

herbalist@...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear Sabine

Thanks so much for giving the reference; I'll certainly get this book. I

have felt for some time that the whole cholesterol thing was orchestrated by

the pharmaceutical companies, and have advised patients to eat a whole-food

diet, not necessarily a low-fat one, like many other herbalists, I guess,

since we all understand the need for fats in the diet, and the relationship

between the liver and the cholesterol levels. I've tried to encourage people

to eat natural fats, and avoid the 'processed' fats such as are found in

margarines etc. Also to avoid taking fats along with refined flour and

sugar. I've come to this from reading lots of little bits, in lots of

places, but the book you recommend sounds really good, it'll be great to

have something 'evidence-based' to work with.

As for giving patients herbs to lower their cholesterol, I have done this,

but have always recognised that it's more to alleviate the patient's

concerns than anything else, as they are usually so completely brainwashed

by the medical profession, and bring their cholesterol test results with

them at every opportunity. Since the herbs we use for this are such lovely

hepato-protective ones anyway, we can only be doing good with this strategy!

I read somewhere recently that one theory about why statins work post MI, is

that they have an anti-inflammatory action, thus acting on the proposed

inflammatory lesions inside the vascular lumen. Since turmeric also has

anti-inflammatory properties, as well as hepato-protective ones, I think

this makes it a clear winner, myself.

As for the pharmaceutical companies et al being influential in research, I

learned that lesson the hard way, when I questioned the value of

immunisations, and was given some 'research' to read, by the GP with whom I

was then working. I read it carefully, and realised that the data and the

text actually said very different things! They'd clearly relied on people

not caring enough to read it carefully.

Alison Morton

>

>Reply-To: ukherbal-list

>To: <ukherbal-list >

>Subject: Re: Cholesterol info

>Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:44:29 -0000

>

>Dear all,

>

>am really interested in the whole cholesterol debate, particularly as i've

>just recently read " The Cholesterol myths " by Uffe Ravnskov. It very

>convincingly and in a rigorously researched manner presents the evidence

>that neither cholesterol nor saturated fats are causes of heart disease.

>He

>carefully dissects all the different trials, and i must say it's persuaded

>me to reconsider the dietary advice i'm giving to people... (and that's me

>having been a (semi-)vegetarian for many years - talk about pulling the

>carpet from under your own feet!!) Has anybody else read this book? I'd be

>really interested in a discussion!

>

>Even though i had known for some time that pharmaceutical politics were

>behind the push for statins, i strangely enough hadn't copped on to the

>extent to which commercial clout has obviously penetrated the whole

>research

>establishment, creating " eminence based medicine " , and influencing the

>outcome/presentation of so-called objective scientific studies which then

>form the basis for both public opinion and " professional " medical advice.

>(BTW, can also recommend " Calculated risks - How to know when numbers

>deceive you " by G Gigerenzer see review at

>www.aapsonline.org/jpands/vol9no1/bookreviews.pdf )

>

>If I do accept that cholesterol/LDL levels have no causative role in heart

>disease in anybody without familial hypercholesterolaemia, and further that

>diet doesn't affect those levels (if we cut down on intake our livers will

>simply make up for the difference), then what am i doing giving herbs to

>reduce cholesterol and telling people to cut out the cream?? Like Sharita

>I

>have found that nervines do seem to make some difference, but that may

>simply be due to the fact that during stress the body's cholesterol

>requirement increases - reduce the stress, reduce the requirement.

>

>It still seems to be accepted that we try to lower Pts' cholesterol levels

>with herbs and diet. Is there any justification for such a strategy? What

>dietary advice do we give to people re (good quality, organic) saturated

>fats? And why and on what evidence? What is people's response to

>Ravnskov's

>book?

>

>I'd love your input!

>All the best

>Sabine

>

>Sabine Hiller BSc(Hons) MIIMH MNIMH

>Medical Herbalist

>Knockrooskey

>Westport

>Co.Mayo

>Tel. 098-35909

>herbalist@...

>

_________________________________________________________________

Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters!

http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Yup,

they are currently being suggested as helpful in bird flu which does

suggest antinflammatory activity,

Sally O

> I read somewhere recently that one theory about why statins work post

> MI, is

> that they have an anti-inflammatory action, thus acting on the

> proposed

> inflammatory lesions inside the vascular lumen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear Sabine,

I read Ravnskov's book some time ago and it made a great impression on

me as well. Very succinct and well written. I came across it whilst

researching the low carb approach to diabetes. I've been following the

Protein Power approach with my husband to help control his diabetes.

We'd been eating reasonably healthy, as I thought, when he was

diagnosed. Initially he did well as I tightened up on the diet and we

went semi-vegetarian too. However, in a few months we'd both piled on a

stone in weight and his bloodwork was going from reasonable to not so

good. I was also having a lot of digestive problems and was wondering if

I actually had a grain problem. I spent 5 months researching the various

low-carb approaches. The Atkins books do actually have quite a bit of

research details in them if you read them through but I settled on the

Eades approach of Protein Power. Their book 'The Protein Power Lifeplan'

has a chapter devoted to cholesterol which makes interesting reading

(unfortunately the references took up so much space -about 40 pages-

they had to be downloaded separately from their website, which is in

the process of being rebuilt after a hacker got in - I do have a copy

but I don't know how easy it is to access them at the moment.) I am also

a member of the Protein Power forum. Lots of discussion takes place and

many people have been eating this way for many years. They have lost

their excess weight but most place greater emphasis on the health

aspects of this way of eating. Many post their bloodwork results and it

certainly seems to have beneficial effects on lipid levels, with no

obvious adverse effects. There are also links posted and that's how I

found out about Ravsnkov. Our own personal experiences have been

positive and our diet is rich in butter, cream, olive oil, salads,

non-starchy vegetables, berries, meat (preferably organic, certainly

free-range) and fish and low in grains and starchy carbohydrates.

Bloodwork generally is good, although husband fell off the wagon last

year and you can see from the results when it started showing up. He is

now being good again and things are getting better. As a result of

searching around about diabetes, cholesterol, and statins I have amassed

a pile of papers that is now 5 inches thick and desperately needs

ordering and filing.

Other books, with references, that I have read that cover the

alternative approach to cholesterol are Barry Groves 'Eat Fat, Get

Thin!' Enig and Sally Fallon 'Eat Fat, Lose Fat' and 'Nourishing

Traditions'. C Vernon's 'Atkins Diabetes Revolution' also has a lot

to say about cholesterol and there is a section about it Dr Bernstein's

'Diabetes Solution'. Cholesterol and especially triglycerides appear to

have more of a correlation with the amount and type of carbohydrate in

the diet; fat actually seems to have little impact on them and in fact

saturated fats like butter can actually improve HDL status. One of the

fats I use a lot now is coconut oil after reading Enig's book and

another by Bruce Fife. ND 'Coconut Cures'.

As a result of all this reading about I am now having to think about

redoing my Cholesterol information sheet. The dietary approach can

actually be a little tricky because everyone has unique requirements.

Another interesting book I have read is 'The Metabolic Typing Diet' by

Wolcott and Trish Fahey. This places people on a scale from

protein types to carbohydrate types and the diet for each is obviously

very different, and of course some people fall in the middle. The idea

is to fine tune the diet to suit each individual; once you have it right

the body works at optimal levels and there should be no problems. Like

most things, it can all be a bit complicated.

In actual fact I haven't had many people seeing me about cholesterol

problems. But as a general guideline, persuading people to eat as

natural a diet as possible and similar to that of our grandparents'

seems a good place to start. They ate things like butter, and lard and

beef dripping and in my experience they seem to have had a longer and

generally healthier lifespan than later generations. I tend to point out

the way I used to see things and how I see things now and point them

into reading up themselves about these things before making a more

informed decision about what they want to do. 'The Nourishing

Traditions' has some very nice recipes in it. It's subtitle is 'The

Cookbook that Challenges Politically Correct Nutrition and the Diet

Dictocrats'. :-)

I agree with Alison that there is an awful lot of politicing and

lobbying going on with this subject that is utterly unrelated to

people's health but certainly there to promote the interests of big

Pharma et al. Re research as well, some of the sites like

www.hsibaltimore.com and mercola.com, plus WDDTY look at recently

published research that's reached the headlines and quite frequently

find that the actual results show a very different picture to the one

that is touted in the media. Reading abstracts is not so good as reading

the actual research; unfortunately that is time consuming. I've just

started on the next stage of my OU studies in Psychology and been

looking at research methods. Objectivity is big in research but rather

cynically perhaps, I ask myself can any research ever be truly

objective? Especially if a drug or food company is paying for it. Don't

we all tend to look at what supports our ideas and ignore that which

queries it? If I do an internet search I can find science that both

supports and debunks the Cholesterol Myth. Can't both be right can they?

So I look at what's there so hopefully I can make informed decisions,

hence the 5 inch pile to plough through before rewriting my cholesterol

info notes.

Rather rambled on a bit; sorry for that. It becomes quite a vast subject

the more you look into it, and it is difficult to go against the

accepted wisdom but I can only speak as I find.

Regards,

MNINH. MCThA. Staffordshire

In message <006f01c63ee2$24d9eab0$2ee8869f@computername>, Sabine Hiller

writes

>Dear all,

>

>am really interested in the whole cholesterol debate, particularly as i've

>just recently read " The Cholesterol myths " by Uffe Ravnskov. It very

>convincingly and in a rigorously researched manner presents the evidence

>that neither cholesterol nor saturated fats are causes of heart disease. He

>carefully dissects all the different trials, and i must say it's persuaded

>me to reconsider the dietary advice i'm giving to people... (and that's me

>having been a (semi-)vegetarian for many years - talk about pulling the

>carpet from under your own feet!!) Has anybody else read this book? I'd be

>really interested in a discussion!

>

>Even though i had known for some time that pharmaceutical politics were

>behind the push for statins, i strangely enough hadn't copped on to the

>extent to which commercial clout has obviously penetrated the whole research

>establishment, creating " eminence based medicine " , and influencing the

>outcome/presentation of so-called objective scientific studies which then

>form the basis for both public opinion and " professional " medical advice.

>(BTW, can also recommend " Calculated risks - How to know when numbers

>deceive you " by G Gigerenzer see review at

>www.aapsonline.org/jpands/vol9no1/bookreviews.pdf )

>

>If I do accept that cholesterol/LDL levels have no causative role in heart

>disease in anybody without familial hypercholesterolaemia, and further that

>diet doesn't affect those levels (if we cut down on intake our livers will

>simply make up for the difference), then what am i doing giving herbs to

>reduce cholesterol and telling people to cut out the cream?? Like Sharita I

>have found that nervines do seem to make some difference, but that may

>simply be due to the fact that during stress the body's cholesterol

>requirement increases - reduce the stress, reduce the requirement.

>

>It still seems to be accepted that we try to lower Pts' cholesterol levels

>with herbs and diet. Is there any justification for such a strategy? What

>dietary advice do we give to people re (good quality, organic) saturated

>fats? And why and on what evidence? What is people's response to Ravnskov's

>book?

>

>I'd love your input!

>All the best

>Sabine

>

>Sabine Hiller BSc(Hons) MIIMH MNIMH

>Medical Herbalist

>Knockrooskey

>Westport

>Co.Mayo

>Tel. 098-35909

>herbalist@...

>

>

>

>List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Good grief! Talk about getting on the bandwagon ... What lengths will

pharmaceutical companies not go to to increase sales ?!?**!

Jan

> Yup,

> they are currently being suggested as helpful in bird flu which does

> suggest antinflammatory activity,

> Sally O

>

>

>

>

>> I read somewhere recently that one theory about why statins work post

>> MI, is

>> that they have an anti-inflammatory action, thus acting on the

>> proposed

>> inflammatory lesions inside the vascular lumen.

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Thanks Alison and for your replies!

> I've tried to encourage people

> to eat natural fats, and avoid the 'processed' fats such as are found in

> margarines etc. Also to avoid taking fats along with refined flour and

> sugar.

Yes, Alison, i'd done this too, but have always presented a vegetarian

wholefood diet supplemented with fish/seafood/esp fatty fish as the ideal,

with occasional small amounts of lean meat only if desired/indicated. This,

I had learned during my course, and also through further reading, was the

best way to avoid CVD, maintain a healthy weight, prevent cancer and a

myriad of other conditions. It was all centered on reducing SatFAs as well

as not burdening the body with excess protein. It looks as if i may have to

rewrite all my info-sheets, but at the same time, i don't just want to hop

from one ill-thought-out dogma to another...

> I spent 5 months researching the various

> low-carb approaches. The Atkins books do actually have quite a bit of

> research details in them if you read them through but I settled on the

> Eades approach of Protein Power.

Hi , I find a low-carb approach which excludes/restricts wholegrains

from the diet problematic. Much of it seems based on some notion of what

our pre-historic " ancestors " diet was like. Nobody will ever know what

exactly they ate in which proportions, and many high-protein/fat diet

proponents (I've only read " The modern nutritional diseases " by A & F

Ottoboni and Sally Fallon's 'Nourishing Traditions' plus some internet

stuff) seem to focus on the Cro Magnon, who was around during the reindeer

period (30-10,000 BC), had a large brain, straight forehead, and was for

that reason heavily mythologised in the 19th C and used extensively in race

theory at the time... This Cro Magnon was a hunter (cold climate, spare

vegetation), practised religion and art, but didn't do very well population

wise, and eventually disappeared (possible remnants in Canary Islands).

The massive increase in population only arose when people started to have

increased access to grains (in France/Iran etc first sickles were found

7-8,000 BC) and especially once they started cultivating them (from around

6-5,000BC). I have more detail if you're interested. To vilify grains seems

non-sensical to me, as they dramatically improved survival and initiated a

rapid and exponential growth in human population (whether that was good or

bad for the planet as a whole is another story...)

> But as a general guideline, persuading people to eat as

> natural a diet as possible and similar to that of our grandparents'

> seems a good place to start. They ate things like butter, and lard and

> beef dripping and in my experience they seem to have had a longer and

> generally healthier lifespan than later generations.

I completely agree with you, , and Ravnskoff's book has reassured me

not to feel bad about using butter and cream more liberally, but we have to

remember, that in practice most people's diets were centered around a carb

food, be that rice, cassava, millet, maize, wheat or spuds. Here in

Ireland, peasants lived on spuds, porridge, buttermilk, cabbage, wild

garlic, plus the odd egg, butter and occasionally meat - depending on

whether they could afford not to sell them. Meat and other animal products

did not make up 40-60 % of people's diets, as the Eades' approach seems to

advise (they suggest 40% carb (which I'd understand to be your veg plus

small amounts of grain), 30% protein, 30% fat). At the same time i

acknowledge that this approach may work well for curbing hunger while losing

weight, and is obviously best for those with extensive grain intolerances.

On a global level though, we will have to rely largely on plant sources of

protein to feed the world, there is no way it can be done with an emphasis

on animal products (never mind organic/free-range ones!).

> The idea

> is to fine tune the diet to suit each individual; once you have it right

> the body works at optimal levels and there should be no problems. Like

> most things, it can all be a bit complicated.

Yes...but i want it easy!

> Reading abstracts is not so good as reading

> the actual research; unfortunately that is time consuming. I've just

> started on the next stage of my OU studies in Psychology and been

> looking at research methods. Objectivity is big in research but rather

> cynically perhaps, I ask myself can any research ever be truly

> objective?

I've come to the same question, or rather conclusion that no, it can't be.

Do herbalists in general see it that way, and if so, what consequences does

this have on us wanting to be accepted by the orthodox medical

establishment, on us wanting to " join the club " ? If herbal medicine is to

become orthodox, it will invariably adopt the same power structures, etc -

anyway, this is another topic altogether...

> Don't

> we all tend to look at what supports our ideas and ignore that which

> queries it? If I do an internet search I can find science that both

> supports and debunks the Cholesterol Myth. Can't both be right can they?

I completely agree. I guess it's all part of post-modernism, but i don't

like it at all...

Can you give me deatils for the debunk websites?

> Rather rambled on a bit; sorry for that.

Same here, apologies likewise, but these are fascinating topics... Has

anybody researched the research on associations between cancer and dietary

protein and sat. fat intakes?

Best wishes

Sabine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear Sabine,

Thanks for your feedback. It really can be a very interesting and

far-ranging topic. Re the grains - I know they can have a place in a

healthy diet, barley and oats particularly. Speaking for myself I do

have a definite problem with grains; over the past 3 years I have

challenged every so often and still get GIT problems. I really do miss

my porridge. Husband also has a problem in that grains, no matter how

wholesome, push his blood sugar up into double figures for some reason

and it takes too long for them to return to normal. We did go pretty

much vegetarian for about 8 months or so after his diagnosis and the

weight piled on, the GIT played up and the blood sugar levels went

haywire. So for us personally that approach does not seem viable. It

does not however stop me from advocating that approach to others if it

seems suited to them. That's why I became interested in the metabolic

typing diet ideas insofar that it works on the basis that everyone's

needs are unique to that individual. I suppose ultimately it's finding

what works best for a person, pretty much what we do anyway as

herbalists, tailoring our approach to each patient.

The ethics of what we eat and how we produce it is of course another

huge subject entirely.

Interesting question that you pose about research and whether we 'join

the club' of orthodox research. We work so differently; it's like

comparing apples and pears. Ideally I suppose we need to come up with

some alternative yet acceptable methods or look to changing paradigms.

Not easy considering the vested interests of both pharmaceuticals and

food producers/suppliers, etc.

With regard to details 'debunking' the cholesterol myth, if you give me

a bit of time I can hopefully come up with them. Next week I have some

time earmarked for going through the huge pile of bumph I've

accumulated, putting it into order so that I can put my hand straight to

the information required when asked to. Some of it relates to diabetes,

some to cholesterol and statins and I'll probably come across some other

long lost info in the process, or stuff that now seems totally useless.

Two sites off the top of my head that have interesting pieces on this

topic are www.mercola.com and www.hsibaltimore.com. You can always do

searches. Whether or not you agree with them of course is a different

matter but it's all food for thought.

To balance my knowledge I'm interested in the grain cultivation info you

mention. I always like to have a good read around any topic - keeps the

grey cells going if nothing else. :-), and sometimes you can come across

info that can change one's thoughts around.

Best wishes,

In message <003201c64120$3a8d8570$bae8869f@computername>, Sabine Hiller

writes

>Thanks Alison and for your replies!

>

>> I've tried to encourage people

>> to eat natural fats, and avoid the 'processed' fats such as are found in

>> margarines etc. Also to avoid taking fats along with refined flour and

>> sugar.

>

>Yes, Alison, i'd done this too, but have always presented a vegetarian

>wholefood diet supplemented with fish/seafood/esp fatty fish as the ideal,

>with occasional small amounts of lean meat only if desired/indicated. This,

>I had learned during my course, and also through further reading, was the

>best way to avoid CVD, maintain a healthy weight, prevent cancer and a

>myriad of other conditions. It was all centered on reducing SatFAs as well

>as not burdening the body with excess protein. It looks as if i may have to

>rewrite all my info-sheets, but at the same time, i don't just want to hop

>from one ill-thought-out dogma to another...

>

>> I spent 5 months researching the various

>> low-carb approaches. The Atkins books do actually have quite a bit of

>> research details in them if you read them through but I settled on the

>> Eades approach of Protein Power.

>

>Hi , I find a low-carb approach which excludes/restricts wholegrains

>from the diet problematic. Much of it seems based on some notion of what

>our pre-historic " ancestors " diet was like. Nobody will ever know what

>exactly they ate in which proportions, and many high-protein/fat diet

>proponents (I've only read " The modern nutritional diseases " by A & F

>Ottoboni and Sally Fallon's 'Nourishing Traditions' plus some internet

>stuff) seem to focus on the Cro Magnon, who was around during the reindeer

>period (30-10,000 BC), had a large brain, straight forehead, and was for

>that reason heavily mythologised in the 19th C and used extensively in race

>theory at the time... This Cro Magnon was a hunter (cold climate, spare

>vegetation), practised religion and art, but didn't do very well population

>wise, and eventually disappeared (possible remnants in Canary Islands).

>

>The massive increase in population only arose when people started to have

>increased access to grains (in France/Iran etc first sickles were found

>7-8,000 BC) and especially once they started cultivating them (from around

>6-5,000BC). I have more detail if you're interested. To vilify grains seems

>non-sensical to me, as they dramatically improved survival and initiated a

>rapid and exponential growth in human population (whether that was good or

>bad for the planet as a whole is another story...)

>

>> But as a general guideline, persuading people to eat as

>> natural a diet as possible and similar to that of our grandparents'

>> seems a good place to start. They ate things like butter, and lard and

>> beef dripping and in my experience they seem to have had a longer and

>> generally healthier lifespan than later generations.

>

>I completely agree with you, , and Ravnskoff's book has reassured me

>not to feel bad about using butter and cream more liberally, but we have to

>remember, that in practice most people's diets were centered around a carb

>food, be that rice, cassava, millet, maize, wheat or spuds. Here in

>Ireland, peasants lived on spuds, porridge, buttermilk, cabbage, wild

>garlic, plus the odd egg, butter and occasionally meat - depending on

>whether they could afford not to sell them. Meat and other animal products

>did not make up 40-60 % of people's diets, as the Eades' approach seems to

>advise (they suggest 40% carb (which I'd understand to be your veg plus

>small amounts of grain), 30% protein, 30% fat). At the same time i

>acknowledge that this approach may work well for curbing hunger while losing

>weight, and is obviously best for those with extensive grain intolerances.

>

>On a global level though, we will have to rely largely on plant sources of

>protein to feed the world, there is no way it can be done with an emphasis

>on animal products (never mind organic/free-range ones!).

>

>> The idea

>> is to fine tune the diet to suit each individual; once you have it right

>> the body works at optimal levels and there should be no problems. Like

>> most things, it can all be a bit complicated.

>Yes...but i want it easy!

>

>> Reading abstracts is not so good as reading

>> the actual research; unfortunately that is time consuming. I've just

>> started on the next stage of my OU studies in Psychology and been

>> looking at research methods. Objectivity is big in research but rather

>> cynically perhaps, I ask myself can any research ever be truly

>> objective?

>

>I've come to the same question, or rather conclusion that no, it can't be.

>Do herbalists in general see it that way, and if so, what consequences does

>this have on us wanting to be accepted by the orthodox medical

>establishment, on us wanting to " join the club " ? If herbal medicine is to

>become orthodox, it will invariably adopt the same power structures, etc -

>anyway, this is another topic altogether...

>

>

>> Don't

>> we all tend to look at what supports our ideas and ignore that which

>> queries it? If I do an internet search I can find science that both

>> supports and debunks the Cholesterol Myth. Can't both be right can they?

>

>I completely agree. I guess it's all part of post-modernism, but i don't

>like it at all...

>Can you give me deatils for the debunk websites?

>

>> Rather rambled on a bit; sorry for that.

>

>Same here, apologies likewise, but these are fascinating topics... Has

>anybody researched the research on associations between cancer and dietary

>protein and sat. fat intakes?

>

>Best wishes

>Sabine

>

>

>

>List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

I am doing the MSc course with the ish School and want to do some

aspect of the cholesterol debate for my dissertation. I am in the early

stages of refining the research proposal, and want to choose what would be

the most useful and relevant for us herbalists. This could be a literature

search, or a review of some case histories. What it WON'T be is whether one

particular herb is useful in lowering cholesterol. The approach will be

holistic, with an energetic interpretation.

Any responses and other ideas would be most welcome - either on or off list.

What knowledge about this subject would be most useful to you in practice?

Many thanks

Helen Duxbury

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi Helen

Good for you; hope you enjoy it as much as I did!

For me, the most useful thing would be to collate all the information which

shows that the whole cholesterol thing is a nonsense (if it is; of course

you may find the opposite, that the medics and pharmaceuticals have been

right all along!). How you could wriggle that round into a viable hypothesis

is your problem!

Alison Morton

>

>Reply-To: ukherbal-list

>To: <ukherbal-list >

>Subject: Re: Cholesterol info

>Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:57:02 -0000

>

>I am doing the MSc course with the ish School and want to do some

>aspect of the cholesterol debate for my dissertation. I am in the early

>stages of refining the research proposal, and want to choose what would be

>the most useful and relevant for us herbalists. This could be a literature

>search, or a review of some case histories. What it WON'T be is whether one

>particular herb is useful in lowering cholesterol. The approach will be

>holistic, with an energetic interpretation.

>Any responses and other ideas would be most welcome - either on or off

>list.

>What knowledge about this subject would be most useful to you in practice?

>

>Many thanks

>Helen Duxbury

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters!

http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear Helen,

I would second Alison Morton's response. As she says you may actually

prove that cholesterol is a big problem but I would take that view more

seriously only if I knew that the researcher was at least someone who

does not have a vested interest, with as impartial an outlook as

possible, who is looking at the subject from a viewpoint of what would

be best for the general public interest and welfare.

--

In message <001401c641d5$dea1c120$db416a51@helenrn4hru6kt>, Helen

Duxbury writes

>I am doing the MSc course with the ish School and want to do some

>aspect of the cholesterol debate for my dissertation. I am in the early

>stages of refining the research proposal, and want to choose what would be

>the most useful and relevant for us herbalists. This could be a literature

>search, or a review of some case histories. What it WON'T be is whether one

>particular herb is useful in lowering cholesterol. The approach will be

>holistic, with an energetic interpretation.

>Any responses and other ideas would be most welcome - either on or off list.

>What knowledge about this subject would be most useful to you in practice?

>

>Many thanks

>Helen Duxbury

>

>

>

>

>List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...