to include or not include... that is the ?

[Guest guest]

I just had to take a second and chime in with regards to selecting a

preschool (or kindergarten for that matter). I once heard it said that Sp. Ed.

was

suppose to be a temporary off-ramp, taken in order that one could identify

areas of needed support, with an on-ramp for reentry into the " mainstream " ...

but the sad reality is that if you allow your child to be " off-ramped " into Sp

Ed. there is little to no chance of them finding an on-ramp back into the

mainstream. I realize that all children are different and have different

levels of necessary support, but I can't urge you enough to start " included " .

If

you identify that additional supports are needed utilize the IEP process to

procure supports... Only when all measures of support are exhausted should

you go down the rung to a more restrictive classroom placement. Some of the

best marketing you'll ever hear will be for why your child should be in a self

contained classroom (safety, self esteem, individualized attention). Don't

buy into it.... The problem with " special programs " is that they prepare you

for a " special world " and I believe our kids deserve access to the whole

world, every aspect of our community... not just the " special " parts. This

may

seem far off if your the parent of an infant, toddler, or preschooler, but

your child's adult years will be here in the blink of an eye... Do you want

them living, working, recreating in the community or living in some type of

" special community " for " special individuals " ? It all starts with

preschool. There is some great information regarding inclusion at a website

called _www.kidstogether.org_ (http://www.kidstogether.org) . They have a

section that list some briefs on the benefits of including children with Down

syndrome. _www.disabilityisnatural.com_ (http://www.disabilityisnatural.com)

also has a wealth of information.

Best wishes,

a

Beaverton, OR

Todd (Ds) & Jay(Mds), 13 yr old twins

[Guest guest]

I used to attend Down Syndrome support groups...which quickly came to an

end...my motto became, " I don't want us to all live in some " down syndrome "

world...I want to come live in the world with us. "

Now, while I still hold this feeling...only time can tell what each child's

abilities and disabilities (those with MDS or not!) will be. It was much

easier for me to hold that philosophy while was a toddler. 's

delays

seem more severe than many in the group...which as a whole, is a good thing,

it means many of your children are functioning close to or at (or above) their

age level... however, and maybe a handful of other children, is not,

and would have been absolutely LOST in mainstream classrooms. We tried special

day classes for several years, but as time went on, the gap between him and

the other students became too large to cross, and we had to move him to the

severely handicapped class.

absolutely FLOURISHED in that class...what a wonderful teacher he had,

and wonderful aides, and he got so much one on one attention...

I'm not at all trying to down the original post... it's a wonderful desire to

have for our children...it's important to push for all the rights for them as

possible...it's important to have high goals and expectations for them....

but sometimes, time shows us that no matter how much we desire

something...desire is not enough, and no one should feel as if they are letting

their children

down in some way for not mainstreaming them. Every child is unique and needs

unique ways to learn.

~~Angel~~

Mom to

13, Mosaic Down Syndrome/Hirschsprung's Disease

Lance 17, Tyler 14, 11

Jaeda 9 and Shayne 3

[Guest guest]

a -

I could not have said it better myself, while I put in a IU preschool

- mainly because I did not have my son in any preschool which is what I

would have done for my daughter but they offered this preschool. She is now

in a " regular " kindergarten with an aide (which we are working on having one

full time.)

But I WILL NOT allow her to go into a Life skills classroom. I know my

daughter is smart! She is also as stubborn as a mule (comes by that

naturally) and I will not allow anyone to jeopardize her education. She

will learn to read and write. She can do anything she wants to do. You

just have to make her realize she wants to do it. I have to be more

committed to her education - and involved making sure she gets what she

needs. The teacher complained to me that could be getting so much

more out of the class if she would just keep her focus so I asked for an

aide (about a month ago) and we are in the process of procuring one full

time.

Darlene

>

> I just had to take a second and chime in with regards to selecting a

> preschool (or kindergarten for that matter). I once heard it said that

> Sp. Ed. was

> suppose to be a temporary off-ramp, taken in order that one

> could identify

> areas of needed support, with an on-ramp for reentry into

> the " mainstream " ...

> but the sad reality is that if you allow your child to be " off-ramped "

> into Sp

> Ed. there is little to no chance of them finding an on-ramp back into the

> mainstream. I realize that all children are different and have different

> levels of necessary support, but I can't urge you enough to

> start " included " . If

> you identify that additional supports are needed utilize the IEP process

> to

> procure supports... Only when all measures of support are exhausted

> should

> you go down the rung to a more restrictive classroom placement. Some of

> the

> best marketing you'll ever hear will be for why your child should be in a

> self

> contained classroom (safety, self esteem, individualized

> attention). Don't

> buy into it.... The problem with " special programs " is that they

> prepare you

> for a " special world " and I believe our kids deserve access to the whole

> world, every aspect of our community... not just the " special "

> parts. This may

> seem far off if your the parent of an infant, toddler, or preschooler,

> but

> your child's adult years will be here in the blink of an eye... Do you

> want

> them living, working, recreating in the community or living in some type

> of

> " special community " for " special individuals " ? It all starts

> with

> preschool. There is some great information regarding inclusion at a

> website

> called _www.kidstogether.org_ (http://www.kidstogether.org) . They have

> a

> section that list some briefs on the benefits of including children

> with Down

> syndrome. _www.disabilityisnatural.com_ (

> http://www.disabilityisnatural.com)

> also has a wealth of information.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> a

> Beaverton, OR

> Todd (Ds) & Jay(Mds), 13 yr old twins

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Darlene,

Your post reminded me of my husband's brother who has fetal alcohol syndrome

He also went to a life skill classroom only. He doesn't know how to read or

write. I just know he could have done those things to an extent. He can tell

you all the race car drivers and all the baseball players from his favorite

teams. I know he had potential. Now he's 30 years old.

a and

Brannon 5 mds and Gabby 3

-- Re: to include or not include... that is the ?

a -

I could not have said it better myself, while I put in a IU preschool

- mainly because I did not have my son in any preschool which is what I

would have done for my daughter but they offered this preschool. She is now

in a " regular " kindergarten with an aide (which we are working on having one

full time.)

But I WILL NOT allow her to go into a Life skills classroom. I know my

daughter is smart! She is also as stubborn as a mule (comes by that

naturally) and I will not allow anyone to jeopardize her education. She

will learn to read and write. She can do anything she wants to do. You

just have to make her realize she wants to do it. I have to be more

committed to her education - and involved making sure she gets what she

needs. The teacher complained to me that could be getting so much

more out of the class if she would just keep her focus so I asked for an

aide (about a month ago) and we are in the process of procuring one full

time.

Darlene

>

> I just had to take a second and chime in with regards to selecting a

> preschool (or kindergarten for that matter). I once heard it said that

> Sp. Ed. was

> suppose to be a temporary off-ramp, taken in order that one

> could identify

> areas of needed support, with an on-ramp for reentry into

> the " mainstream " ...

> but the sad reality is that if you allow your child to be " off-ramped "

> into Sp

> Ed. there is little to no chance of them finding an on-ramp back into the

> mainstream. I realize that all children are different and have different

> levels of necessary support, but I can't urge you enough to

> start " included " . If

> you identify that additional supports are needed utilize the IEP process

> to

> procure supports... Only when all measures of support are exhausted

> should

> you go down the rung to a more restrictive classroom placement. Some of

> the

> best marketing you'll ever hear will be for why your child should be in a

> self

> contained classroom (safety, self esteem, individualized

> attention). Don't

> buy into it.... The problem with " special programs " is that they

> prepare you

> for a " special world " and I believe our kids deserve access to the whole

> world, every aspect of our community... not just the " special "

> parts. This may

> seem far off if your the parent of an infant, toddler, or preschooler,

> but

> your child's adult years will be here in the blink of an eye... Do you

> want

> them living, working, recreating in the community or living in some type

> of

> " special community " for " special individuals " ? It all starts

> with

> preschool. There is some great information regarding inclusion at a

> website

> called _www.kidstogether.org_ (http://www.kidstogether.org) . They have

> a

> section that list some briefs on the benefits of including children

> with Down

> syndrome. _www.disabilityisnatural.com_ (

> http://www.disabilityisnatural.com)

> also has a wealth of information.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> a

> Beaverton, OR

> Todd (Ds) & Jay(Mds), 13 yr old twins

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is why I have chosen to homeschool my daughter, Katy, who is now 14. We

started homeschooling 2 years ago and we love it. Early on, Katy was in a

regular classroom, did well through about 2nd grade/3rd grade. However,

academically, she just wasn't able to keep up with her peers and was in the Life

Skills class more and more and just mainstreamed for PE, music, art, lunch,

fieldtrips, etc. At the middle school level, I could see that she wasn't going

to be mainstreamed hardly at all and was in the Life Skills class with not only

middle school age but high school kids. There was a wide variety of special

needs, some severe. I knew she was not going to be challenged and there were so

many distractions in her classroom - how was she ever going to learn? While I

appreciate these other kids and their problems, they were not the role models I

wanted for Katy. So, homeschooling became my option and it has been great. I

am teaching things to Katy she would have never got in school - we have done the

US maps and she can identify all the states by name (this should have been done

at 4th grade level, but these kids don't need to know that king of stuff...) and

she loves it. One thing that motivates her is for me to look up on the internet

where some of the movie stars are from and then find it on the map - she

remembers it? I don't? She can tell you where Judy Garland was born,

Keel, Doris Day...she loves all the old movies and musicals - the list goes on

and on. We are also doing Science, History, Health....these subjects are just

not covered in life skills.

I joined our local homeschool group and we do field trips with them, parties

and she participated in History Fair and Science Fair.

Anyway, it is different for everyone - you have to do what is right for your

child. This is right for us right now. If anyone is interested in

homeschooling - I would be happy to let you know more about what we do.

Charlotte

>

>

> Become a member of IMDSA today at

http://www.imdsa.com<http://www.imdsa.com/>

> *************************************************

> Contact IMDSA Today at:

> IMDSA~PO Box 1052~lin,TX~77856~USA~1-

> *************************************************

>

[Guest guest]

We are dealing with this issue right now. Mahrya is in 3rd grade. We live in

Wisconsin where full inclusion is mandated by law. We are actually having a

problem on the other side of the issue. Mahrya has a VERY difficult time with

math and reading comprehension is also an issue with her. We were told by WI

state law she can not be out of the mainsteam classroom any more than 20% of the

class periods. What this means for her is she has to sit through instruction

that is way over her head. Yes, she has an aid and they modify the work for

her, the sp ed teacher also is in the classroom with her to help her and a few

other sp. needs kids. But while the instruction is going on you may as well be

talking chinese to her. We wanted to have her pulled for reading and math, but

that goes over the 20% time limit. I beleive in inclusion, but in some areas

she could really use more help that she can get in the classroom. Our next IEP

comes due in May and we are going to have to do some

real thinking on what we can get to help her most. Don't know quite how we are

going to handle it, it is quite frustrating. Wish there could be a happy

medium.

Luanne mom to Mahrya 9 mds

alldunn33@... wrote:

I just had to take a second and chime in with regards to selecting a

preschool (or kindergarten for that matter). I once heard it said that Sp. Ed.

was

suppose to be a temporary off-ramp, taken in order that one could identify

areas of needed support, with an on-ramp for reentry into the " mainstream " ...

but the sad reality is that if you allow your child to be " off-ramped " into Sp

Ed. there is little to no chance of them finding an on-ramp back into the

mainstream. I realize that all children are different and have different

levels of necessary support, but I can't urge you enough to start " included " .

If

you identify that additional supports are needed utilize the IEP process to

procure supports... Only when all measures of support are exhausted should

you go down the rung to a more restrictive classroom placement. Some of the

best marketing you'll ever hear will be for why your child should be in a self

contained classroom (safety, self esteem, individualized attention). Don't

buy into it.... The problem with " special programs " is that they prepare you

for a " special world " and I believe our kids deserve access to the whole

world, every aspect of our community... not just the " special " parts. This

may

seem far off if your the parent of an infant, toddler, or preschooler, but

your child's adult years will be here in the blink of an eye... Do you want

them living, working, recreating in the community or living in some type of

" special community " for " special individuals " ? It all starts with

preschool. There is some great information regarding inclusion at a website

called _www.kidstogether.org_ (http://www.kidstogether.org) . They have a

section that list some briefs on the benefits of including children with Down

syndrome. _www.disabilityisnatural.com_ (http://www.disabilityisnatural.com)

also has a wealth of information.

Best wishes,

a

Beaverton, OR

Todd (Ds) & Jay(Mds), 13 yr old twins

[Guest guest]

Luanne,

We also live in Wisconsin where I am both a teacher and parent of a child with

MDS. Where did you get your information? Our daughter had in elementary

school a very balanced, practical approach. She was in the regular ed classroom

for many classes and then in the resource room for reading, language arts and

math where instruction could be at her instructional level. We have had to

investigate many legal issues related to 's education over the years and I

have never heard of such a law. You might want to contact the DPI in Madison to

get the most accurate information.

Good luck,

Sue (Norah 17, MDS 12)

Re: to include or not include... that is the ?

We are dealing with this issue right now. Mahrya is in 3rd grade. We live in

Wisconsin where full inclusion is mandated by law. We are actually having a

problem on the other side of the issue. Mahrya has a VERY difficult time with

math and reading comprehension is also an issue with her. We were told by WI

state law she can not be out of the mainsteam classroom any more than 20% of the

class periods. What this means for her is she has to sit through instruction

that is way over her head. Yes, she has an aid and they modify the work for

her, the sp ed teacher also is in the classroom with her to help her and a few

other sp. needs kids. But while the instruction is going on you may as well be

talking chinese to her. We wanted to have her pulled for reading and math, but

that goes over the 20% time limit. I beleive in inclusion, but in some areas

she could really use more help that she can get in the classroom. Our next IEP

comes due in May and we are going to have to do some

real thinking on what we can get to help her most. Don't know quite how we are

going to handle it, it is quite frustrating. Wish there could be a happy

medium.

Luanne mom to Mahrya 9 mds

alldunn33@... wrote:

I just had to take a second and chime in with regards to selecting a

preschool (or kindergarten for that matter). I once heard it said that Sp. Ed.

was

suppose to be a temporary off-ramp, taken in order that one could identify

areas of needed support, with an on-ramp for reentry into the " mainstream " ...

but the sad reality is that if you allow your child to be " off-ramped " into Sp

Ed. there is little to no chance of them finding an on-ramp back into the

mainstream. I realize that all children are different and have different

levels of necessary support, but I can't urge you enough to start " included " .

If

you identify that additional supports are needed utilize the IEP process to

procure supports... Only when all measures of support are exhausted should

you go down the rung to a more restrictive classroom placement. Some of the

best marketing you'll ever hear will be for why your child should be in a self

contained classroom (safety, self esteem, individualized attention). Don't

buy into it.... The problem with " special programs " is that they prepare you

for a " special world " and I believe our kids deserve access to the whole

world, every aspect of our community... not just the " special " parts. This

may

seem far off if your the parent of an infant, toddler, or preschooler, but

your child's adult years will be here in the blink of an eye... Do you want

them living, working, recreating in the community or living in some type of

" special community " for " special individuals " ? It all starts with

preschool. There is some great information regarding inclusion at a website

called _www.kidstogether.org_ (http://www.kidstogether.org) . They have a

section that list some briefs on the benefits of including children with Down

syndrome. _www.disabilityisnatural.com_ (http://www.disabilityisnatural.com)

also has a wealth of information.

Best wishes,

a

Beaverton, OR

Todd (Ds) & Jay(Mds), 13 yr old twins

[Guest guest]

Sue,

The special ed teacher gave us this info this past Thurs. Do you know where I

can get correct info so I can go armed to the IEP meeting? What is the DPI?

What you are decribing is really what we would like to have for Mahrya. I live

in the Kewaskum school district, and to this point everything has gone fine,

just now that we are starting to have problems. I sure would love to have the

correct info!

Luanne

Caregar@... wrote:

Luanne,

We also live in Wisconsin where I am both a teacher and parent of a child with

MDS. Where did you get your information? Our daughter had in elementary

school a very balanced, practical approach. She was in the regular ed classroom

for many classes and then in the resource room for reading, language arts and

math where instruction could be at her instructional level. We have had to

investigate many legal issues related to 's education over the years and I

have never heard of such a law. You might want to contact the DPI in Madison to

get the most accurate information.

Good luck,

Sue (Norah 17, MDS 12)

Re: to include or not include... that is the ?

We are dealing with this issue right now. Mahrya is in 3rd grade. We live in

Wisconsin where full inclusion is mandated by law. We are actually having a

problem on the other side of the issue. Mahrya has a VERY difficult time with

math and reading comprehension is also an issue with her. We were told by WI

state law she can not be out of the mainsteam classroom any more than 20% of the

class periods. What this means for her is she has to sit through instruction

that is way over her head. Yes, she has an aid and they modify the work for

her, the sp ed teacher also is in the classroom with her to help her and a few

other sp. needs kids. But while the instruction is going on you may as well be

talking chinese to her. We wanted to have her pulled for reading and math, but

that goes over the 20% time limit. I beleive in inclusion, but in some areas

she could really use more help that she can get in the classroom. Our next IEP

comes due in May and we are going to have to do some

real thinking on what we can get to help her most. Don't know quite how we are

going to handle it, it is quite frustrating. Wish there could be a happy

medium.

Luanne mom to Mahrya 9 mds

alldunn33@... wrote:

I just had to take a second and chime in with regards to selecting a

preschool (or kindergarten for that matter). I once heard it said that Sp. Ed.

was

suppose to be a temporary off-ramp, taken in order that one could identify

areas of needed support, with an on-ramp for reentry into the " mainstream " ...

but the sad reality is that if you allow your child to be " off-ramped " into Sp

Ed. there is little to no chance of them finding an on-ramp back into the

mainstream. I realize that all children are different and have different

levels of necessary support, but I can't urge you enough to start " included " .

If

you identify that additional supports are needed utilize the IEP process to

procure supports... Only when all measures of support are exhausted should

you go down the rung to a more restrictive classroom placement. Some of the

best marketing you'll ever hear will be for why your child should be in a self

contained classroom (safety, self esteem, individualized attention). Don't

buy into it.... The problem with " special programs " is that they prepare you

for a " special world " and I believe our kids deserve access to the whole

world, every aspect of our community... not just the " special " parts. This

may

seem far off if your the parent of an infant, toddler, or preschooler, but

your child's adult years will be here in the blink of an eye... Do you want

them living, working, recreating in the community or living in some type of

" special community " for " special individuals " ? It all starts with

preschool. There is some great information regarding inclusion at a website

called _www.kidstogether.org_ (http://www.kidstogether.org) . They have a

section that list some briefs on the benefits of including children with Down

syndrome. _www.disabilityisnatural.com_ (http://www.disabilityisnatural.com)

also has a wealth of information.

Best wishes,

a

Beaverton, OR

Todd (Ds) & Jay(Mds), 13 yr old twins

[Guest guest]

Luanne,

We're in Eau where is now in middle school and we have other

problems. Yesterday my husband spoke with someone named Sandy (I don't have her

last name) who handles theCognitive Disability IDEA complaints at the DPI. She

was a wonderful resource for us and maybe could be helpful for you also.

We have also worked with the Wisconsin Coalition for Advocay (I think their name

is changed now - but you should be able to find them with this name) in the past

and they have been helpful in advising us of our rights. Their offices are also

in Madison.

Sue

Re: to include or not include... that is the ?

We are dealing with this issue right now. Mahrya is in 3rd grade. We live in

Wisconsin where full inclusion is mandated by law. We are actually having a

problem on the other side of the issue. Mahrya has a VERY difficult time with

math and reading comprehension is also an issue with her. We were told by WI

state law she can not be out of the mainsteam classroom any more than 20% of the

class periods. What this means for her is she has to sit through instruction

that is way over her head. Yes, she has an aid and they modify the work for

her, the sp ed teacher also is in the classroom with her to help her and a few

other sp. needs kids. But while the instruction is going on you may as well be

talking chinese to her. We wanted to have her pulled for reading and math, but

that goes over the 20% time limit. I beleive in inclusion, but in some areas

she could really use more help that she can get in the classroom. Our next IEP

comes due in May and we are going to have to do some

real thinking on what we can get to help her most. Don't know quite how we are

going to handle it, it is quite frustrating. Wish there could be a happy

medium.

Luanne mom to Mahrya 9 mds

alldunn33@... wrote:

I just had to take a second and chime in with regards to selecting a

preschool (or kindergarten for that matter). I once heard it said that Sp. Ed.

was

suppose to be a temporary off-ramp, taken in order that one could identify

areas of needed support, with an on-ramp for reentry into the " mainstream " ...

but the sad reality is that if you allow your child to be " off-ramped " into Sp

Ed. there is little to no chance of them finding an on-ramp back into the

mainstream. I realize that all children are different and have different

levels of necessary support, but I can't urge you enough to start " included " .

If

you identify that additional supports are needed utilize the IEP process to

procure supports... Only when all measures of support are exhausted should

you go down the rung to a more restrictive classroom placement. Some of the

best marketing you'll ever hear will be for why your child should be in a self

contained classroom (safety, self esteem, individualized attention). Don't

buy into it.... The problem with " special programs " is that they prepare you

for a " special world " and I believe our kids deserve access to the whole

world, every aspect of our community... not just the " special " parts. This

may

seem far off if your the parent of an infant, toddler, or preschooler, but

your child's adult years will be here in the blink of an eye... Do you want

them living, working, recreating in the community or living in some type of

" special community " for " special individuals " ? It all starts with

preschool. There is some great information regarding inclusion at a website

called _www.kidstogether.org_ (http://www.kidstogether.org) . They have a

section that list some briefs on the benefits of including children with Down

syndrome. _www.disabilityisnatural.com_ (http://www.disabilityisnatural.com)

also has a wealth of information.

Best wishes,

a

Beaverton, OR

Todd (Ds) & Jay(Mds), 13 yr old twins

[Guest guest]

Maybe it is just where I live but, Tyler was first put in a special

school and they quickly realized that he was to advanced for that

school and moved him into public school in 2nd grade. He is in a

special ed class but goes into a regular class for art, music, gym,

lunch and library. He did have a few problems with some of the other

kids making fun of him but the school tried to keep control of it. He

is doing very well and is starting to make friends in the regular

class, he even has done some team sports.

Debbie, mom to Troy (11 dyslexia and ADHD), Tyler (9 MTDS) and Shane (3)