Re: Re: moderators (elialeros)

February 1, 2006

Dear Elia,

Am 31.01.2006 um 12:11 schrieb elialeros:

> Ok this one has been with me for quite some time

> " T send to many unintersting posts to this group "

>

> T: i guess not cause here she is writing along

Ok, how much is " too many " ? And who is deciding that?

Acutally, is it a " Tami should not send as many... " ? I hear it to be

" too many " rather than " uninteresting " . What is more important to you?

> R: i don t read her posts. i don t look at this group as often as i

> did before she contributed

> so much; i am exaspetated. i think of finding penpals rather than

> contributing to this

> group. i also get to feel superior

How do you feel, when you open your mailbox, and see that Tami send

another " uninteresting post " ? Where do you feel it?

Is there a reason to let this thought go?

Can you find a reason to keep this thought, that is not stressful?

> W: i would not feel exasperated. i might do everything else the

> same. i wight just tell her

> how i feel. i might do the work on her contribution i might

> actually read some of her

> quotes and find pearls in them (that is interesting) i might try to

> answer to some of her

> posts

Who would you be, if you saw that Tami was flooding this list with

uninteresting posts, and you could not believe the thought that she

is sending too many posts? How would that feel?

> TA: she does not ... obvouisly since that the reality

> i send to many unintersting posts to this list.... u dont think

> so... maybe this one?

> T does not send enough uninteresting posts...

What about:

" I am reading too many... "

" I am thinking too many uninteresting thoughts... " (especially when

it comes to Tami's posts?)

Thank you for your work.

Love,

>

>>

>> Hi

>>

>> I am willing to pay the full price for being ME

>>

>> Let me explain:

>>

>> I am in a chat room, of a business I am in.

>> Any way, you know me, I cannot stop from being joyful sweet and

>> modest

>> (dahh)

>>

>> So, I didn't go by the rull there, and they kicked me out.

>> They told me that if I want to go back there I need to " behave " =

>> play by

>> the rull.

>>

>> I was thinking, playing by the rull in some cases is preventing

>> myself from

>> acting the way I feel like.

>> I said: no thank you, I am too happy with myself, I don't want to

>> change

>> myself

>> so that other people feel better.

>> So I am out, and I have no stories that I lost anything, I gained

>> myself

>> and I gave myself my approval

>>

>> I am writing here cause I want to say that I am so happy with

>> moderators in

>> this group.

>>

>> , I love you

>> and , well...

>> You know too well what I feel for you. hmmm

>> If you want a reminder, call me. I am very busy though, I will see

>> if I can

>> find time for you

>>

>> Oh boyyyy, the phone rings... Give me a break

>>

>> T

___________________________________________________________

Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

February 1, 2006

Dear Brigitte!

>> Acutally, is it a " Tami should not send as many... " ? I hear it to be

>> " too many " rather than " uninteresting " . What is more important to

>> you?

> Too many is the most disturbing. I would not mind the tone if it

> were a lesser

> contribution.

Good. And who do you take as a measure of how much is " too " much? 1

per day? 5? 10? Try to give a number.

Because then you can go: " Tami should send less than.... 5

uninteresting posts a day " .

Wich means that your world is a better one, if only Tami sent less

than 5 posts a day.

And this shows how you depend your happiness on Tami, instead of

taking care of it, yourself.

And we both know where that leads to, don't we?

>> How do you feel, when you open your mailbox, and see that Tami send

>> another " uninteresting post " ? Where do you feel it?

> Exasperation. Boredom.

> Where: shoulder's go down. Sighs. (btw, i never quite understood

> how this question is

> usefull?)

The whole third question is about noticing how believing the thought

affects you. All of your feelings in the body.

>> Is there a reason to let this thought go?

> I might " join the fun "

Ok. That could be a reaction. What about the Exasperation and boredom

you get?

>> Can you find a reason to keep this thought, that is not stressful?

> Yes. I let's me post this. It may (or not) give voice to others.

> I'm hoping -without

> conviction - that it may encourage Tamy to reflect before posting

> so much

YOU give VOICE to people? That's wonderful!

You say: hope without conviction - so, is this stressful, or not?

>> What about:

>> " I am reading too many... "

> Actually I don't . I skip them. I hardly come here anymore.

> When I do, I post and read

> answers to my posts only. Too much " trash " to sort thru. My story

> is I would read more if

> she contributed less

Ok. If you don't read them, how do you know it's " trash " ? For you, at

your own measures, whatever that may be?

You may as well look at them, because the feeling of boredom and

exasperation is there, anyway. So it doesn't even make a difference

what she really writes.

>> " I am thinking too many uninteresting thoughts... " (especially when

>> it comes to Tami's posts?)

> I don't see how I could find them intersting. So i guess my

> alternative is just not to come

> here so often.

Oh, you shouldn't find them interesting. I don't find them

interesting. I don't find ltwobk's posts interesting. Sometimes they

are funny. The only difference between the two is: ltwobk " knows "

that he knows, and Tami knows that she knows not. Both don't want to

know. One because she's tired of asking, and the other, because he

doesn't feel any need to, he is happy with what he " knows " . And

that's my story.

Acutally, I don't find any posts that don't trigger some of my own

emotions here, interesting. However, I do find interesting every post

that annoys me. Because that's a sign for me, that there is something

to inquire. And I know it's only about me, because if the post was

posted in a golf forum, for instance (sorry, the first one that came

to my mind! - I would never have read it. So it's not about him or

her posting it, it has to do only with me.

And I do find every post interesting, that I feel comes from a point

of asking. Because I can ask that same question myself. And observe

what answers come up.

And you have a work here!

> She is not interesting

I'd make that more explicit: Tami is not interesting to me. Because:

How do I know she is not interesting? When does the thought come up?

When others talk about her not being interesting? When anyone states

that she isn't? Or don't I even ask anyone, just find it out for

myself? If the latter is the case, then the thought could be " She is

not interesting to me "

What immediately comes up for me is: That's not her job.

A lot of people may not be interesting. Who cares? I surely don't.

I say this, because when I want to know the truth (what my boredom an

exasperation come from), I have to find where the most charge is for

me. And when I see that I have no problem with anyone not being

interesting, I know the " problems " are coming from another place. So

I get to look at the place where the charge really is. In this case,

I'd go to: " Tami should be more interesting (to me). " - this gets

interesting especially in question 4 and the TA.

> T? nah

> Absolulety: ok maybe she could be, she surely is so some.

She may, but that's not important here, is it?

Try: " Can you absolutely know, that you were less bored and

exasperated, if tami was more interesting to you? "

Because let's assume that Tami changes (even if only in your eyes),

and you do feel better.

Until Tami2 shows up.

Which does happen sooner or later, because it's a good thing: it

brings you back to you.

> Reaction: idem

> Without: i d consider her posts as all

Let me guess: you don't seem very enthusiastic here.

> TA she is intersting...... well i can see she is to some of you

Ok, that's a start. And it suits, without the " to me " I suggested.

What about " she is NOT uninteresting to me. " ? I mean, you do devote

her some time of your anger and exasperation, don't you?

> I am not interesting... certainely to some, or many

What about yourself? Do you bore yourself, sometimes?

> I am not interesting when i find her non interesting... bah...

for instance here? You are the one who is bored, aren't you?

> This is stil;l bugging me

Well, go on. You are on a good path. I find " he should... " more

helpful then " he is... " . Because the latter is a description of the

projection. It may get me to see the real picture. The former is a

plan of how to find peace. And if I let go the work on THAT, it helps

me find the real way.

Actually, I like this description for the work, and I feel like it

fits: You tell the work where you think you should go, and the work

answers you with the the direction your goal really is.

>> Thank you for your work.

> Thank YOU as always!

You're welcome, dear.

Love,

___________________________________________________________

Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

February 2, 2006

Sweetie, whether sends money to someone or not, does NOT affect

MY world.

Nor does it affect my world, if you have sex with animals. I could

not care less!

I care what I do. That's clarity. Most often I forget that. I do what

I do for ME! Always.

Tami seems to have a HUGE impact on YOUR world. And maybe not. Again,

I don't really care.

YOU DO have an impact on MY world. I do care.

When I do take you serious, I get annoyed. And you look to me like a

blind guy that's running around telling everyone what they should see.

I hear you talk about abuse, nazism, killing, and lots of violence

happening in this list.

This list is like an interactive book. For all I know ALL of the

charakters in here could be fictional, me included.

It can be a pretty strong illusion, though.

What is interesting for me, is how this list affects MY world.

And maybe you just struck a nerve of mine that needed to be struck.

It feels like you wanted people in this group to be loving to each

other. And protect those who aren't from hurting themselves. Knowing

all along that it doesn't work, but without knowing what else to do.

I can see myself in that, with my kids. And I have two wonderful

kids. The older one wakes me up at half past 7 on the weekend, to

tell me that the sun rose (even when the sky is so full of clouds

that you can't see it) and that the breakfast is ready. And that at

the age of six!

And his brother has the most charming smile I have seen, since... I

looked at old pictures of myself, actually.

And sometimes they do things like hurting each other, not listening

at all, usual kid's stuff, that get me sooo upset, soo fast! All

because I think they should be more ... like I want them to be, and

less as they are.

That is not love. Let alone unconditional love.

Of course I could tell Tami to please stop that, or ask her if she

can't see how she is hurting other people feelings. And come from a

position of love, while doing that. And ban her out of the group if

she did not follow what I asked her. And still come from a position

of love.

I just can't see how she is hurting anyone, here. She is just acting

who she is, as you are. I can't even see how her behaviour is

disturbing.

However, if I did that, you may see that as loving, and some others

may as well. And some won't. But it would not feel loving for me to

shut ANYONE out of this group, who may find something helpful in here.

I strongly encourage everyone who finds disturbing mails in here, to:

1. make sure in his membership setting that he is being sent

individual emails

2. make up some rules for the messages he may find disturbing.

I welcome every mail that helps me to find a disturbing thought that

could lead me to do the work.

Love,

Am 02.02.2006 um 03:08 schrieb lovetheworkofbk:

>

>> Good. And who do you take as a measure of how much is " too " much? 1

>> per day? 5? 10? Try to give a number.

>>

>> Because then you can go: " Tami should send less than.... 5

>> uninteresting posts a day " .

>> Wich means that your world is a better one, if only Tami sent less

>> than 5 posts a day.

>> And this shows how you depend your happiness on Tami, instead of

>> taking care of it, yourself.

>> And we both know where that leads to, don't we?

>>

>

> when sent money to the hurricane victims do you think

> that made her world better? When she had a face lift do you think that

> made her world better? Do you know why she did those things? The same

> reason that Brigitte is asking for less posts from Tami, because that

> is what love does, it acts. Love is well aware that someones thinking

> is the cause of their suffering, but because others are not there yet

> it meets them where they are in the form of a donation or a request

> for less posts from Tami.

>

> Have a beautiful day

>

> " There's nothing between you and love but unquestioned concepts. "

> Byron

>

February 2, 2006

Thank you, Brigitte.

Am 02.02.2006 um 15:37 schrieb elialeros:

> ok...

>

> 1- it is not easy just to skip her messages because they are

> intertwinded with interesting ones. Can't just say delete Tami. Or

> I would of...

Oh! You can't say " delete Tami " ? Interesting. Because you may miss

something?

And can you really know that?

> 2- I really do get the " My exasperation is my work " part. But

> then, when do we move into action? The points lthwokbk brought up

> are also mine: Don't we have the responsability to act if we don't

> agree. What is just coming up is: " As long as it is from a place

> of exaperation it is not love in action. It's my story. Do the

> work and then from love act " .. Interesting...

If I think I should act, I do act. For my shake.

You know how it feels, when you don't act because you fear something,

although you think you should. We all have experienced that.

It's not a feeling any of us looks forward to. It's not what love

feels like.

There is nothing anyone should or should not do, other than what is

done. There is only staying in my integrity, and not staying in my

integrity.

>

> 3-your post inspred me to this question " How many other Tamys have I

> already met and how did I react to them " and " When do I act in a

> Tamy way and do I consider other people when I act that way " . Very

> potent. That just kill away the exasperation.

That's very good. And you might consider how you would treat all

these Tamis, how you would see them, if you did not have this thought

that they should be different. And there may be Tamis you never

minded being the way they are, because they are... male? Kids? Old?

Animals? Plants? Whatever. Interesting to find what makes the

difference for you.

> 4-My view is also that is a bad thing that her posts discourage Work-

> oriented people to post and read this list. If anybody posts

> anything anytime and in surabondance than why have this group?

And who are you to decide what keeps people from going along their path?

Of course you do have your point of view. Your story.

Who would you be without that story?

Listen to your thoughts, and observe how beliving them affects you.

>> Good. And who do you take as a measure of how much is " too " much?

>> 1 per day? 5? 10? Try to give a number.

> It is a proportion. More than 25% or posts from Tamy is irritating.

Ok, so Tami should send less than every fourth mail to the group. So,

Tami, please wait until 4 messages have been posted, before you send

one.

So that YOU can be more peaceful.

>> YOU give VOICE to people? That's wonderful!

> I think I did give voice to some

Who gives voice to you?

And can't you express yourself if voice is not given to you? Do you

need a permission from someone to make yourself heard? Or can you

give yourself this permission?

>> I'd make that more explicit: Tami is not interesting to me.

> Because:

> because her email are not really work related

> because they are chatty and I do not come here for chatting

> because a little cuteness is fine. Ten tons of it is not as much

> because of the volume

> because also I don't read - that's my story - to much depth,

> recherche, quest into them

So what you are basically telling is: you don't want to miss

important posts, and you don't want to read too many unimportant posts.

And you don't want to have to decide wich go where. Others should do

that, Tami, for instance - but all the other members, as well. What

if all posts were from Tami? If the only person but you on this group

was Tami? Writing under all these names? - And everyone should decide

taking YOUR measures. Then you'd be happy.

Did I get that right?

Love,

___________________________________________________________

Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

February 2, 2006

The world would be a better place if I will post less...

I hear you love

I want to please you but I cannot

Sorry

T

-- Re: moderators (elialeros)

> Good. And who do you take as a measure of how much is " too " much? 1

> per day? 5? 10? Try to give a number.

>

> Because then you can go: " Tami should send less than.... 5

> uninteresting posts a day " .

> Wich means that your world is a better one, if only Tami sent less

> than 5 posts a day.

> And this shows how you depend your happiness on Tami, instead of

> taking care of it, yourself.

> And we both know where that leads to, don't we?

>

when sent money to the hurricane victims do you think

that made her world better? When she had a face lift do you think that

made her world better? Do you know why she did those things? The same

reason that Brigitte is asking for less posts from Tami, because that

is what love does, it acts. Love is well aware that someones thinking

is the cause of their suffering, but because others are not there yet

it meets them where they are in the form of a donation or a request

for less posts from Tami.

Have a beautiful day

" There's nothing between you and love but unquestioned concepts. "

Byron

February 2, 2006

Thank you

Tami

-- Re: Re: moderators (elialeros)