Re: What chelates aluminum???

[Guest guest]

My mailstation truncated the message content so I got only the subject line.

Apple pectin or malic acid, available in most health food stores reportedly

chelates aluminum.

S

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[This message has been truncated.]

[Guest guest]

Shirley,

Malic acid chelates aluminum. And avoid flu vaccines if possible.

Kathy

[ ] What chelates aluminum???

>I am trying to come up with a comprehensive chelation plan for my

>father, who is showing early warning symptoms of Alzheimers. He has

>had extensive dental work done over the last 5 years.

>

>I remember reading that DMSA and ALA do not chelate aluminum. But

>with Alzheimers, aluminum (and mercury) are found.

>

>Does anyone have any recommendations that can help me? If I don't

>simplify this as much as possible for him, he simply won't do this.

>Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

>

>

>

>

>

>=======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Hi! Does anyone know just how much malic acid per pound of body weight is

necessary for chelation of aluminum and every how many hours this dosage

should be given and for what length of time? In other words, can someone

explain the protocol for aluminum chelation in detail.? I would appreciate

your input. Also, is there a rest period between chelating cycles and if

so, of how many days? Rose

[ ] What chelates aluminum???

>

>

> >I am trying to come up with a comprehensive chelation plan for my

> >father, who is showing early warning symptoms of Alzheimers. He has

> >had extensive dental work done over the last 5 years.

> >

> >I remember reading that DMSA and ALA do not chelate aluminum. But

> >with Alzheimers, aluminum (and mercury) are found.

> >

> >Does anyone have any recommendations that can help me? If I don't

> >simplify this as much as possible for him, he simply won't do this.

> >Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >=======================================================

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank you for all your responses--this has been very helpful!

[Guest guest]

Malic and citric acid WILL bind to aluminum, but they will also carry

it equally well into the cells. Unless you are scrupulous in avoiding

aluminum in the food and water, giving malic acid can significantly

increase the absorption of aluminum. Many water systems use alum

(which contains aluminum) to remove particulates from the water,

raising the aluminum content well above that in the original supply

(which may also be high, depending on the source).

Jim Laidler

> I am trying to come up with a comprehensive chelation plan for my

> father, who is showing early warning symptoms of Alzheimers. He has

> had extensive dental work done over the last 5 years.

>

> I remember reading that DMSA and ALA do not chelate aluminum. But

> with Alzheimers, aluminum (and mercury) are found.

>

> Does anyone have any recommendations that can help me? If I don't

> simplify this as much as possible for him, he simply won't do this.

> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[Guest guest]

I believe this would be the magnesium glycinate Wendi

[ ] What chelates aluminum???

> I am trying to come up with a comprehensive chelation plan for my

> father, who is showing early warning symptoms of Alzheimers. He has

> had extensive dental work done over the last 5 years.

>

> I remember reading that DMSA and ALA do not chelate aluminum. But

> with Alzheimers, aluminum (and mercury) are found.

>

> Does anyone have any recommendations that can help me? If I don't

> simplify this as much as possible for him, he simply won't do this.

> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Jim,

Could you point us toward some documentation on this? I'd like to read more

about it, as my son had a high aluminum level also. I was under the

impression that malic acid doesn't chelate, but " crowds out " aluminum,

increasing excretion. Thanks,

Kathy

[ ] Re: What chelates aluminum???

>Malic and citric acid WILL bind to aluminum, but they will also carry

>it equally well into the cells. Unless you are scrupulous in avoiding

>aluminum in the food and water, giving malic acid can significantly

>increase the absorption of aluminum. Many water systems use alum

>(which contains aluminum) to remove particulates from the water,

>raising the aluminum content well above that in the original supply

>(which may also be high, depending on the source).

>

>Jim Laidler

>

>

>> I am trying to come up with a comprehensive chelation plan for my

>> father, who is showing early warning symptoms of Alzheimers. He has

>> had extensive dental work done over the last 5 years.

>>

>> I remember reading that DMSA and ALA do not chelate aluminum. But

>> with Alzheimers, aluminum (and mercury) are found.

>>

>> Does anyone have any recommendations that can help me? If I don't

>> simplify this as much as possible for him, he simply won't do this.

>

>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

>

>

>=======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Malic Acid -- magnesium malate from most health food stores. He can take it

twice a day until all the aluminum is gone. You don't have to cycle it like

you do the DMSA as long as you start pretty slow and build up.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/5/01 11:49:18 AM Central Daylight Time, dwinn@...

writes:

<< Somewhere in the article " Cleaning house " on www.mnwelldir.org there is a

link about MSM.......it takes you to a story where this lady gave her

husband 20 or so (obviously not the correct dosage for children) capsules of

MSM per day and gave him a bath with water and 3/4 cups clorox bleach 2-3

times a week (for about 20 minutes) and the aluminum leeched of his skin and

he started coming completely out of his alzheimers. >>

Why the bleach? That sounds toxic itself.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/5/01 12:35:24 PM Central Daylight Time,

d701@... writes:

<< Hi! Does anyone know just how much malic acid per pound of body weight is

necessary for chelation of aluminum and every how many hours this dosage

should be given and for what length of time? In other words, can someone

explain the protocol for aluminum chelation in detail.? I would appreciate

your input. Also, is there a rest period between chelating cycles and if

so, of how many days? Rose

>>

Dosing is usually on the bottle with a range choice. Assume it is for a 150

lb person (one doc told me) and figure the percentage of that to your weight.

We use 825 mg caps -- the bottle says take 1-3 caps a day. My son takes one

cap broken in half taken twice a day. I took one cap twice a day. For a

grown man, I'd start with one cap twice a day then assuming there were no

problems, work up to 3 per day. As I understand it, this is best done

continuously rather than in cycles.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

There are a lot of studies showing that malic acid can chelate and

remove aluminum; this is not in question. However, at least two

well-done studies have shown that malic acid (and citric acid, among

others) can also increase aluminum absorption. In the laboratory, it

is possible to eliminate aluminum from the diet and water of

experimental animals (although it can be difficult, since aluminum is

the most abundant metal on the planet). At home, aluminum gets into

our food and water (and even air) from a myriad of sources. These two

studies show that malic acid will increase aluminum absorption from

the intestine:

Testolin G, Erba D, Ciappellano S, Bermano G, " Influence of organic

acids on aluminum absorption and storage in rat tissues " , Food

Additives & Contaminants, 1996 Jan 13(1):21-27

Domingo JL, Gomez M, Llobet JM, Corbella J, " Influence of some dietary

constituents on aluminum absorption and retention in rats " Kidney

International, 1991 Apr 39(4):598-601

Desferoxamine and some experimental chelating agents have been shown

to remove aluminum from the body without increaing absorption, but the

organic acids (especially citric and malic acids) definitely increase

absorption as well as excretion.

I'm not sure what you have heard about malic acid " crowding out "

aluminum, so I can't comment on what that might mean.

Jim Laidler

> >> I am trying to come up with a comprehensive chelation plan for my

> >> father, who is showing early warning symptoms of Alzheimers. He

has

> >> had extensive dental work done over the last 5 years.

> >>

> >> I remember reading that DMSA and ALA do not chelate aluminum.

But

> >> with Alzheimers, aluminum (and mercury) are found.

> >>

> >> Does anyone have any recommendations that can help me? If I

don't

> >> simplify this as much as possible for him, he simply won't do

this.

> >

> >> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

> >

> >

> >=======================================================

> >

[Guest guest]

Jim Laidler wrote:

> Malic and citric acid WILL bind to aluminum, but they will also carry

> it equally well into the cells. Unless you are scrupulous in avoiding

> aluminum in the food and water, giving malic acid can significantly

> increase the absorption of aluminum. Many water systems use alum

> (which contains aluminum) to remove particulates from the water,

> raising the aluminum content well above that in the original supply

> (which may also be high, depending on the source).

Can this also explain my Sears RO filter I bought ten years ago which puts

out higher TDS( total dissolved solid) than my tap water?

What is the best way to get clean water??? Distilled? Which brand?

Thanks

mt

>

>

> Jim Laidler

>

>

> > I am trying to come up with a comprehensive chelation plan for my

> > father, who is showing early warning symptoms of Alzheimers. He has

> > had extensive dental work done over the last 5 years.

> >

> > I remember reading that DMSA and ALA do not chelate aluminum. But

> > with Alzheimers, aluminum (and mercury) are found.

> >

> > Does anyone have any recommendations that can help me? If I don't

> > simplify this as much as possible for him, he simply won't do this.

>

> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Gaylen, thank you so much for your information. This is exactly what I

needed to know. Rose

Re: [ ] What chelates aluminum???

> In a message dated 4/5/01 12:35:24 PM Central Daylight Time,

> d701@... writes:

>

> << Hi! Does anyone know just how much malic acid per pound of body weight

is

> necessary for chelation of aluminum and every how many hours this dosage

> should be given and for what length of time? In other words, can someone

> explain the protocol for aluminum chelation in detail.? I would

appreciate

> your input. Also, is there a rest period between chelating cycles and

if

> so, of how many days? Rose

> >>

>

> Dosing is usually on the bottle with a range choice. Assume it is for a

150

> lb person (one doc told me) and figure the percentage of that to your

weight.

> We use 825 mg caps -- the bottle says take 1-3 caps a day. My son takes

one

> cap broken in half taken twice a day. I took one cap twice a day. For a

> grown man, I'd start with one cap twice a day then assuming there were no

> problems, work up to 3 per day. As I understand it, this is best done

> continuously rather than in cycles.

> Gaylen

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

As I understand it, reverse osmosis (RO) is supposed to remove

dissolved salts, not increase them. When I was in the Army, we used RO

to desalinate seawater for drinking and it worked quite well. One

reason that your RO filter may not be working is that the membrane may

be ruptured. This completely destroy the function of the filter.

Getting water without aluminum can be very difficult, but not

impossible. Distilled water may have aluminum in it or not. Ion

exchange filters (including many water softeners) can remove aluminum

in exchange for (usually) sodium.

Most towns of any size will have a lab that can test water for

aluminum and other metals (and other things) - send them a sample of

any bottled water you plan to use if you want to know the aluminum

level.

However, even if you eleiminate aluminum from the water, it is still

in foods, medicines and even the air. The aluminum contenst of wheat

and other grains varies with the amount of aluminum in the soil, as

does the aluminum content of meats (from grazing animals).

The real " take-home " message is that aluminum is ubiquitous and that

malic and citric acid are not entirely safe to use in large amounts

(the amounts recommended for aluminum detoxification). Even if you see

an increased aluminum excretion, that may simply be due to increased

absorption. It is the difference between absorption and excretion that

determines whether aluminum levels increase or decrease, and the

organic acids may tip the balance either direction, depending on the

amount of aluminum in the diet. You can get specialty animal foods for

research that are aluminum-free, but they are both expensive and not

very palatable.

My recommendation, if you are concerned about aluminum, is to avoid

both citric and malic acid and try one of the other compounds, such as

desferoxamine, that have been shown to remove aluminum without

enhancing absorption.

Jim Laidler

> > > I am trying to come up with a comprehensive chelation plan for

my

> > > father, who is showing early warning symptoms of Alzheimers. He

has

> > > had extensive dental work done over the last 5 years.

> > >

> > > I remember reading that DMSA and ALA do not chelate aluminum.

But

> > > with Alzheimers, aluminum (and mercury) are found.

> > >

> > > Does anyone have any recommendations that can help me? If I

don't

> > > simplify this as much as possible for him, he simply won't do

this.

> >

> > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

> >

> > =======================================================

> >

[Guest guest]

You can't eliminate Al, but you can greatly reduce it by avoiding

processed (american, velveeta) cheese, avoiding Al containing baking

powders (check baked goods ingredient lists), and not cooking in

aluminum pots - or if you do at least don't coook acidic stuff like

tomato sauce! If it darkens the pot it is dissolving alumimunm.

More to the point, mercury intoxication impairs mineral handling. The

high aluminum often seen in the mercury kids is not a sign of a

separate intoxication, but of impaired mineral handling. Reduce Al

exposure on general principles, but Hg detox is the proper treatment

for this particular Al problem.

Andy

> > >> I am trying to come up with a comprehensive chelation plan for

my

> > >> father, who is showing early warning symptoms of Alzheimers.

He

> has

> > >> had extensive dental work done over the last 5 years.

> > >>

> > >> I remember reading that DMSA and ALA do not chelate aluminum.

> But

> > >> with Alzheimers, aluminum (and mercury) are found.

> > >>

> > >> Does anyone have any recommendations that can help me? If I

> don't

> > >> simplify this as much as possible for him, he simply won't do

> this.

> > >

> > >> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

> > >

> > >

> > >=======================================================

> > >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/6/01 5:32:28 PM Central Daylight Time, laidlerj@...

writes:

<< I would recommend trying to " beef up " (while avoiding

BSE/Mad Cow Disease) the metallothionenes and other native

metal-handling proteins through increasing methionene intake

(methionene is the major componenet of metallothionenes) and removing

any heavy metals that may be inhibiting the metallothionene system.

>>

Jim,

How do you increase methionene?

Carol G

[Guest guest]

I appreciate the info on studies about malic and citric acids possibly

increasing absorption of aluminum. I wonder if there are other contributing

factors to whether it gets absorbed or released? Both my son and I have

chelated our high aluminum levels with malic acid (or I assume we have).

Levels are gone in both hair and urine tests for over a year so unless it's

socked away in other cells, we're clean of aluminum. My son is still

chelating arsenic so we retest every few months or so and now aluminum. I've

kept my son on malic acid now six months after all the aluminum showed to be

gone because he does much better when taking it. I assumed it was due to its

liver cleansing properties but perhaps he just needed more magnesium. The

info makes me worry a bit about reabsorption. Why can't any of this be easy

-- arghhhh!

<< My recommendation, if you are concerned about aluminum, is to avoid

both citric and malic acid and try one of the other compounds, such as

desferoxamine, that have been shown to remove aluminum without

enhancing absorption. >>

What is desferoxamine?

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim,

Is there something else that works better?

What would you suggest to do for aluminum??

If one uses malic acid or citric acid, does the overall toxic

load INCREASE because of increased absorbtion?? Or does the

overall toxic load still go down as stored aluminum is clearer??

Does malic acid or citric acid clear aluminum from the brain?

How do you think it compares to the info that was recently

posted about using MSM and baths-with-bleach-added ??

lots of questions, here!

Moria

At 10:27 PM 4/5/2001 -0000, you wrote:

>Malic and citric acid WILL bind to aluminum, but they will also carry

>it equally well into the cells. Unless you are scrupulous in avoiding

>aluminum in the food and water, giving malic acid can significantly

>increase the absorption of aluminum. Many water systems use alum

>(which contains aluminum) to remove particulates from the water,

>raising the aluminum content well above that in the original supply

>(which may also be high, depending on the source).

>

>Jim Laidler

>

>

>> I am trying to come up with a comprehensive chelation plan for my

>> father, who is showing early warning symptoms of Alzheimers. He has

>> had extensive dental work done over the last 5 years.

>>

>> I remember reading that DMSA and ALA do not chelate aluminum. But

>> with Alzheimers, aluminum (and mercury) are found.

>>

>> Does anyone have any recommendations that can help me? If I don't

>> simplify this as much as possible for him, he simply won't do this.

>

>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

>

>

>=======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi Jim,

>

> Is there something else that works better?

> What would you suggest to do for aluminum??

> If one uses malic acid or citric acid, does the overall toxic

> load INCREASE because of increased absorbtion?? Or does the

> overall toxic load still go down as stored aluminum is clearer??

>

> Does malic acid or citric acid clear aluminum from the brain?

> How do you think it compares to the info that was recently

> posted about using MSM and baths-with-bleach-added ??

>

> lots of questions, here!

> Moria

Moria,

Let's see if I can answer all your questions without forgetting one.

I'm going to take them out of order, because it makes the answer

" flow " a bit better.

There are a lot of intriguing studies showing that aluminum

accumulation is ASSOCIATED with Alzheimers disease and other

neurological diseases. The questions that remain are these:

1. Does the aluminum cause the disease or is it a result of the

disease?

2. Why do some people get Alzheimers disease (or the disease in

question)when other people with the same aluminum exposure

(essentially all of us) do not?

3. Will getting the aluminum out make the disease better?

These questions remain to be answered. Part of the answer may be that

the problem is not simply accumulation of aluminum but impaired

ability to get rid of the aluminum that we all consume in the course

of modern life. This ties in nicely to some of the theories about

autism and mercury. Metallothionene (proteins that are natural

metal-chelators) levels in autistic children are often low, and this

could account for their sensitivity to mercury (or it may be a result

of their mercury exposure). To say that the picture is not yet clear

is to state the obvious.

Malic and citric (and succinic and humic and ...) acids have all been

shown to increase aluminum excretion - they also all increase the

absorption of aluminum from the gut. If you are on a low aluminum

diet, then they will remove aluminum from the body - if not, they

increase the amount of aluminum in the body.

If you really need to eliminate aluminum, then desferoxamine (a

prescription drug) is the only compound that will remove aluminum

without the risk of increasing absorption. It also, unfortunately,

removes iron, so it is not without its little problems.

The MSM-chlorine bleach technique is new to me. I didn't pay too much

attention to the details, but I would be rather reluctant to hop into

a tub containing bleach, just because of the potential damage to my

skin and eyes (not to mention other, more sensitive areas of the

body). Rather than try to add supplements or bleach to remove

aluminum, I would recommend trying to " beef up " (while avoiding

BSE/Mad Cow Disease) the metallothionenes and other native

metal-handling proteins through increasing methionene intake

(methionene is the major componenet of metallothionenes) and removing

any heavy metals that may be inhibiting the metallothionene system.

Long answer to a short question, I'm afraid,

Jim Laidler

[Guest guest]

Oops! Spelling error! I meant to write methionine, the amino acid. You

should be able to find it at your local health food store or on the

'net.

The comment about BSE/Mad Cow Disease was a play on " beef up " , since

that has been in the news a lot lately.

Jim Laidler

> In a message dated 4/6/01 5:32:28 PM Central Daylight Time,

laidlerj@o...

> writes:

>

> << I would recommend trying to " beef up " (while avoiding

> BSE/Mad Cow Disease) the metallothionenes and other native

> metal-handling proteins through increasing methionene intake

> (methionene is the major componenet of metallothionenes) and

removing

> any heavy metals that may be inhibiting the metallothionene system.

> >>

>

> Jim,

>

> How do you increase methionene?

>

> Carol G

[Guest guest]

Gaylen,

The problem with malic acid is that it will transport aluminum either

way - if there is more in your body than in your gut, you will see a

net loss in aluminum. If there is more in your gut, you will see a net

gain. Apparently, your family has managed to keep your aluminum intake

low enough to maintain a net loss.

Desferoxamine (trade name Desferal " )is:

N-[5-[3-[(5-aminopentyl)hydroxycarbamoyl]propionamido]-pentyl]-3-[[5-(

N-hydroxyacetamido)pentyl]carbamoyl] propionohydroxamic acid

monomethanesulfonate (aren't you glad you asked ;-) ?). It is

primarily used to chelate iron in patients who have iron toxicity from

a variety of reasons. It also has been found helpful to treat severe

aluminum toxicity. It is about as nasty as its full name would make it

seem and has a list of toxicities and side effects that run for pages.

Since citric acid and malic acid are in the diet of most people (in

much smaller amounts than advocated for aluminum detoxification) and

since they are also made in our body, we have a built-in way of

ridding ourselves of aluminum, as long as we don't keep shoveling it

in. However, since most people in the " civilized " world are taking in

loads of aluminum and only a small percentage of them have any problem

with it, the answer is not just aluminum. The answer lies in the

reason those few people are not able to deal with the aluminum.

Jim Laidler

> I appreciate the info on studies about malic and citric acids

possibly

> increasing absorption of aluminum. I wonder if there are other

contributing

> factors to whether it gets absorbed or released? Both my son and I

have

> chelated our high aluminum levels with malic acid (or I assume we

have).

> Levels are gone in both hair and urine tests for over a year so

unless it's

> socked away in other cells, we're clean of aluminum. My son is

still

> chelating arsenic so we retest every few months or so and now

aluminum. I've

> kept my son on malic acid now six months after all the aluminum

showed to be

> gone because he does much better when taking it. I assumed it was

due to its

> liver cleansing properties but perhaps he just needed more

magnesium. The

> info makes me worry a bit about reabsorption. Why can't any of

this be easy

> -- arghhhh!

>

> << My recommendation, if you are concerned about aluminum, is to

avoid

> both citric and malic acid and try one of the other compounds, such

as

> desferoxamine, that have been shown to remove aluminum without

> enhancing absorption. >>

>

> What is desferoxamine?

> Gaylen

[Guest guest]

Don't forget, he cannot chelate with amalgams in his mouth!