Re: Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate-tauranol I-78-C

[Guest guest]

>Here is my question: Does the pH of the

> finished shampoo have to be 6.0-7.8? I typically make my finished

shampoo

> with a pH of 5.5 or so. Bob Scala at Finetex says that this

surfactant

> should not be used in a shampoo with a low pH. I really love the

feel of

> this surfactant and want to use it, but am wondering about the pH

factor?

To be " pH Balanced " , your haircare product should be close to the

hair's isoionic point. Sometimes, people refer to the hair's pH.

Hair doesn't have a pH. To have a pH you need water.

At the isoionic point for hair, the hair's electrical charges are

essentailly neutral. At pH's above or below 5.5, the hair begins to

swell and becomes weaker.

Did Bob Scala say why you " should not " use the Tauranol I-78-C at low

pHs and what is low? 6?

Maurice

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/4/03 11:47:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,

maurice@... writes:

> In Cosmeticinfo , AngiesHerbarie@a... wrote:

> >Here is my question: Does the pH of the

> >finished shampoo have to be 6.0-7.8? I typically make my finished

> shampoo

> >with a pH of 5.5 or so. Bob Scala at Finetex says that this

> surfactant

> >should not be used in a shampoo with a low pH. I really love the

> feel of

> >this surfactant and want to use it, but am wondering about the pH

> factor?

>

> To be " pH Balanced " , your haircare product should be close to the

> hair's isoionic point. Sometimes, people refer to the hair's pH.

> Hair doesn't have a pH. To have a pH you need water.

>

> At the isoionic point for hair, the hair's electrical charges are

> essentailly neutral. At pH's above or below 5.5, the hair begins to

> swell and becomes weaker.

>

> Did Bob Scala say why you " should not " use the Tauranol I-78-C at low

> pHs and what is low? 6?

>

> Maurice

>

>

>

Hi Maurice and All,

Thank you for responding....I was at our farm this weekend with some lite

reading on the silicones, HLB, etc ......good stuff!

Anyhow, as you say, it seems to me that pH of 5.5 is desirable for a shampoo.

He was very adamant about keeping the pH between 6.0-7.8. I did question

him about it, because I do aim for 5.5 or so in a shampoo and I had never

heard of something as high as 7.8 being desirable in a shampoo. If I

remember correctly Bob said the tauranol would have a stability problem if

the pH was too low, meaning less than 6.0. I am continuing to experiment

with it though. I think it is one of the nicest feeling surfactants that I

have experienced---very impressive really---and the foam is luxurious, but I

have to learn more about it before I will consistently use it or sell it. If

anyone has any additional information about the sodium cocoyl isethionate, pH

or other, please let me know.

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/6/03 11:03:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,

david@... writes:

> Found the following pH 5.5 product containing the isethionate?

>

> Dave E

>

> s pH 5.5 2in1 Moisturising Body Wash

>

> Water, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Glycerin, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate,

> Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate, Lauryl Betaine, Lauryl Polyglucoside,

> Panthenol, Polyquaternium-39, Sodium Styrene/Acrylates Copolymer

> (and) Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (and) Trideceth-7, Propylene Glycol, PEG-

> 55 Propylene Glycol Oleate, Polyquaternium-7, Methyldibromo

> Glutaronitrile, Phenoxyethanol, Sodium Citrate, Citric Acid, Sodium

> Chloride, Fragrance. BC 8 002100 321817

>

> Dave E

>

Well, that's interesting! Sounds like I better talk with Bob again, just to

clarify what he meant. Of course I will keep playing with it to see what

happens. I believe it has been used in 'Dove' soap and is typically used in

solid bars. I am not a fan of Dove soap though and this chemical doesn't

feel like dove soap to me....much nicer feel in the lather and leaves skin

feeling conditioned. Other than that, I can't find much in the way of

shampoo formulas that include it.

Thanks, Dave! If anyone has anymore info on this chemical I would love to

see it.

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/6/03 11:32:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,

david@... writes:

>

> From Harry's Cosmeticology 7th ed

>

> " Isethionic acid HOCH2CH2SO3H, was on of the first materials to

> successfully be used by IG Farbenindustrie to convert fatty acids

> into synthetic detergents without passing through the fatty alcohol

> stage. The etsers display qualities similar to those of alkyl

> sulfates with similar chaim length, although the foaming power of

> coconut isethionate sodium salt is not quite as good as that of sls.

> Very mild for scalp and hair and practically unaffected by calcium

> salts, they become hydrolysed in solution which limits their use to

> powder shampoos and syndet bars. "

>

> Isethionates R-COOCH2-CH2-SO3_ M+ as an ester will be hydrolysed at

> the carbonyl group in acid media. Maybe the reaction is very slow in

> viscous slightly acidic (pH 5.5)products, only trying it will show

> this.

>

> Dave E

>

Hi Dave and All,

I sure do wish I could follow this info. I don't know the chemical structure

of sodium cocoyl isethionate....is Isethionic acid HOCH2CH2SO3H the same

thing or are we talking about a different compound? I'm not clear on

Isethionates R-COOCH2-CH2-SO3_ M+ either....sorry. Could you clarify a bit

more, please?

Thanks,

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

If

> anyone has any additional information about the sodium cocoyl

isethionate, pH

> or other, please let me know.

Found the following pH 5.5 product containing the isethionate?

Dave E

s pH 5.5 2in1 Moisturising Body Wash

Water, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Glycerin, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate,

Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate, Lauryl Betaine, Lauryl Polyglucoside,

Panthenol, Polyquaternium-39, Sodium Styrene/Acrylates Copolymer

(and) Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (and) Trideceth-7, Propylene Glycol, PEG-

55 Propylene Glycol Oleate, Polyquaternium-7, Methyldibromo

Glutaronitrile, Phenoxyethanol, Sodium Citrate, Citric Acid, Sodium

Chloride, Fragrance. BC 8 002100 321817

Dave E

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks, Dave! If anyone has anymore info on this chemical I would

love to

> see it.

From Harry's Cosmeticology 7th ed

" Isethionic acid HOCH2CH2SO3H, was on of the first materials to

successfully be used by IG Farbenindustrie to convert fatty acids

into synthetic detergents without passing through the fatty alcohol

stage. The etsers display qualities similar to those of alkyl

sulfates with similar chaim length, although the foaming power of

coconut isethionate sodium salt is not quite as good as that of sls.

Very mild for scalp and hair and practically unaffected by calcium

salts, they become hydrolysed in solution which limits their use to

powder shampoos and syndet bars. "

Isethionates R-COOCH2-CH2-SO3_ M+ as an ester will be hydrolysed at

the carbonyl group in acid media. Maybe the reaction is very slow in

viscous slightly acidic (pH 5.5)products, only trying it will show

this.

Dave E