vaccine question

[Guest guest]

, that is quite interesting. I have NEVER heard of any such thing on any

of my lists or having spoken to the few hundred people that have children that

have done this. The first shot gives immunity to 95% of the population.

Perhaps it's the other 5 % that got the measles at age 20? I can't possibly

believe that our bodies know when we turn 20 to loose this immunity or the

second booster would wear off at what, about age 30? That just makes no sense

to me. You either have the antibodies or you don't. It's just like when you

physically break out with one of these diseases. Your body develops immunity

(antibodies) and then you don't get it again. The titer test is simply saying

you have the antibodies or you don't. I know of women who are unsure if they've

had chicken pox that get a titer test done before they get pregnant, just to be

safe. Again, this just doesn't make sense to me but it DOES sound like you have

a great doctor who is willing to listen and discuss these issues with you.

Perhaps you could ask him how your body could lose it's antibodies over time.

If that's the case, then there's a chance ANY person could get any disease

repeatedly in their lifetime in which case vaccinations wouldn't be a guarantee

for any of us and gosh that could get some of us people thinking why bother with

them at all (which I'm not saying so please don't get me wrong *grin*).

But, if you are concerned about this, another idea would be to get the separate

shots, spaced out over time. I am doing this with my 2 year old and I found

there is no second booster required (at least in my state) if you do them

separately. Thus I won't have to have her titer tested before Kindergarten like

I did my other two. One less thing to deal with before she starts school. BTW,

both of my other kids had the antibodies after the first shot.

Good luck,

Tammy

[ ] Vaccine Question

Hi everyone -

I have a vaccine question for all of you. I am concerned about giving my 4

year old son the MMR shot. I would feel better doing it in the 3 separate

doses and my pediatrician was quite supportive of my decision. Then I found

out through this list that I could have a titer level blood test done to see

if he's achieved immunity from his first shot and that maybe I wouldn't even

need to do the second one. When I called my pediatrician, he voiced his

concern saying that there is a possibility that the immunity from the first

one could end around the age of 20 and that the second one ensures that

won't happen. He said around 1990 there was a small breakout of measles of

approx. 20 year olds who hadn't received the booster shot in one state. He

was supportive again and said " there is no medical evidence that MMR causes

autism, but then again, there's no medical evidence that says it doesn't

either " and then he did tell me about the one study in Europe but said it

wasn't enough evidence to convince the medical field. I was happy with his

open mindedness. Does anyone have any info on this? Thanks for your time.

in NJ

kdr@...

[Guest guest]

Immunity ends at 20? All I can say to that is autism doesn't!

Natasha

-- In @y..., Rothweiler <kdr@c...> wrote:

> Hi everyone -

> I have a vaccine question for all of you. I am concerned about

giving my 4

> year old son the MMR shot. I would feel better doing it in the 3

separate

> doses and my pediatrician was quite supportive of my decision.

Then I found

> out through this list that I could have a titer level blood test

done to see

> if he's achieved immunity from his first shot and that maybe I

wouldn't even

> need to do the second one. When I called my pediatrician, he

voiced his

> concern saying that there is a possibility that the immunity from

the first

> one could end around the age of 20 and that the second one ensures

that

> won't happen. He said around 1990 there was a small breakout of

measles of

> approx. 20 year olds who hadn't received the booster shot in one

state. He

> was supportive again and said " there is no medical evidence that

MMR causes

> autism, but then again, there's no medical evidence that says it

doesn't

> either " and then he did tell me about the one study in Europe but

said it

> wasn't enough evidence to convince the medical field. I was happy

with his

> open mindedness. Does anyone have any info on this? Thanks for

your time.

>

> in NJ

> kdr@c...

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I HAVE researched this as my son developed all of his speech problems

and his autism immediately after his MMR ( I have no personal doubt

of the link ).

The MMR affords immunity to 90 % of people given the shot and there

IS a limit to the immunity afforded by any immunistaion - unlike

contracting the disease naturally where the immunity is for life .It

is just one of those things which is a fact of immunisation . It is

not necessarily a problem as many diseases for which we are given

childhood vaccinations are not a major problem if contracted as an

adult .

The length of immunity cannot however be measured or pre-determined

in exactly the same way that you cannot predict which child will gain

immunity from the first shot and which will not .

the titre test is a good way to go as at least you then know whether

they have any protection or not .

the rubella portion of the MMR is a little odd as although it stops

the child getting the disease and potentially giving it to a pregnant

woman - the pregnant woman is at risk of having no residual

protection from her immunisation as a toddler . That is why the

rubella portion used to be given to us girls at 14 . Now they

immunise the entire toddler population instead of girls of child

bearing age .

The individual measles shot seems to give a much longer lived

protection than the measles part of the MMR - possibly because of the

very nature of combined injections. The body is incapeable of having

more than one such disease at one time - you will never hear of a

child contracting measles and mumps at the same time. So when you

combine thenm it is difficult to predict how they will

interact ........ So difficult that tests done on a similar injection

in cattle was abandoned because they found that the immunity provided

was too weak . But then more extensive and detailed testing was done

by the vets on the cattle than was done in the three weeks testing

carried out on toddlers when the MMR was trialed .....I promise you

that that is true - more tests on cattle than kids !!

Anyway - it seems you have a good Doctor who is informing you well so

that you can make the right decision for you . The titre test would

be my choice as a first step .

But everyone should be aware that a childhood immunisation is not for

life so getting checked for rubella pre preganancy etc is a good idea.

Incidently, whilst you will appreciate that I am anti-MMR ( it would

be surprising if I were not ) I am not at all suggesting that you

avoid these individual injections . But the MMR is now considered to

be so ineffective that the UK government are going to trial a third

shot at teenage - this is not just to try and mop up the repeated

failures to afford any immunity at all in a continuing 10% of

children but also to boost those kids whose immunity is wearing off .

The single vaccine does not seem to have such a problem with this .

One last thing - please be very very cautious of these injections if

your child has the chicken pox vaccine or has a natuaral viral

illness in the preceeding six months . A high ppn of kids who I know

that seem to have reacted adversly to MMR have had this ( including

Charlie - chicken pox at christmas and MMR followed by rapid decline

at easter !)

Good luck

Regards

Deborah

-- In @y..., " natasha_bogdanov " <nataleo@e...>

wrote:

> Immunity ends at 20? All I can say to that is autism doesn't!

>

> Natasha

>

>

> -- In @y..., Rothweiler <kdr@c...> wrote:

> > Hi everyone -

> > I have a vaccine question for all of you. I am concerned about

> giving my 4

> > year old son the MMR shot. I would feel better doing it in the 3

> separate

> > doses and my pediatrician was quite supportive of my decision.

> Then I found

> > out through this list that I could have a titer level blood test

> done to see

> > if he's achieved immunity from his first shot and that maybe I

> wouldn't even

> > need to do the second one. When I called my pediatrician, he

> voiced his

> > concern saying that there is a possibility that the immunity from

> the first

> > one could end around the age of 20 and that the second one

ensures

> that

> > won't happen. He said around 1990 there was a small breakout of

> measles of

> > approx. 20 year olds who hadn't received the booster shot in one

> state. He

> > was supportive again and said " there is no medical evidence that

> MMR causes

> > autism, but then again, there's no medical evidence that says it

> doesn't

> > either " and then he did tell me about the one study in Europe but

> said it

> > wasn't enough evidence to convince the medical field. I was

happy

> with his

> > open mindedness. Does anyone have any info on this? Thanks for

> your time.

> >

> > in NJ

> > kdr@c...

[Guest guest]

The whole vaccine issue is not one I usually join in. My guess about

antibodies wearing off is like the small pox vaccine many of us

received as kids that would be ZERO effective if their was an

outbreak. Could be wrong but I remember something during the whole

Anthrax issue about this.

--- In @y..., " Tammy Sowell " <Tammy_S68@m...>

wrote:

> I can't possibly believe that our bodies know when we turn 20 to

loose this immunity or the second booster would wear off at what,

about age 30? That just makes no sense to me. You either have the

antibodies or you don't. It's just like when you physically break

out with one of these diseases.

[Guest guest]

Anyone have a quick reference handy for ages of these shots?

I know when I first read of the link I looked it up and there is a strong

correlation to it and my sons depressive stage he went through.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn ,

I don't know the schedule exactly in the States , although I know

that you guys have way more shots than we do . You might want to

check though ( without opening another can of worms !!) whether the

injections that your wee boy had contained thimerosal .

I have just handed a stack of references and print outs to a new mum

I know who is having to decide re early shots for her six week old

baby ...as soon as I get it back I will let you have the details of

the sites I lifted them from >>including brand names and thimerosal

content etc .

Best regards

Deborah

PS -= you are doing so much to get your head around this stuff in

such a short space of time so that you can filter what may be

relevent/helpfull or not . This stuff took me more than six months .

You have some kind of energy - I wish I'd known you back then !!!! -

-- In @y..., Lynn McClendon <mamapudd@s...>

wrote:

> Anyone have a quick reference handy for ages of these shots?

>

> I know when I first read of the link I looked it up and there is a

strong

> correlation to it and my sons depressive stage he went through.

>

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/21/2002 1:34:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MacsM7@...

writes:

> I just received a list of all the vaccinations my son received. Back

> in 1991-92 he got DTP and OPV. A search revealed they now give DTaP and

> IPV.

My son got the DTP and OPV in 1997. The DTP was replaced with the DTaP

because of adverse reactions (correct me if I'm wrong). The OPV is the oral

form of Polio and was replaced by IPV because the oral Polio caused actual

outbreaks of it.

Jo

Representative for Unlocking Autism in South Carolina

www.unlockingautism.org

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/21/02 2:25:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JPiker@...

writes:

> The DTP was replaced with the DTaP

> because of adverse reactions (correct me if I'm wrong). The OPV is the oral

>

> form of Polio and was replaced by IPV because the oral Polio caused actual

> outbreaks of it.

>

So you mean my son was injected with poisons they've actually admitted

are bad -- as opposed to the garbage they claim is OK?

I did question all this at the time. I was told I worry too much. Now

I see I didn't worry nearly enough...

[Guest guest]

Until recently the Rhogam has contained thimerosal. WinRho has been

thimerosal-free for a while. S--- On Wed 08/21, & lt; MacsM7@... & gt;

wrote:

From: [mailto: MacsM7@...] @...: Wed, 21

Aug 2002 13:32:00 EDTSubject: [ ] Vaccine questionHi, I just

received a list of all the vaccinations my son received. Back in 1991-92 he got

DTP and OPV. A search revealed they now give DTaP and IPV. Can anyone explain

the difference and what it means? Also, I'd like to hear any information on

Rhogam -- I had two shots (that I know about) when I was pregnant (1990-91).

Thank you,

[Guest guest]

Back in the thirties, kids did not receive nearly as many vaccines as today!

Tell them to look up mercury poisoning- it mimics autism!

[Guest guest]

a, children didn't receive the number of vaccines then, that our

kids do today. There is a document from the CDC proving the amount of

thimerasol in the first six months increases neurodevelopmental disorders.

http://www.autism treatment.com/simsonwood.html

> When exactly did the US schools mandate that children must be

vaccinated

> before entering school? I run into people who don't buy the mercury

> connection and they always point out the same thing, that thimerosal

was in

> vaccines back in the 30's, therefore it couldn't be connected with

autism.

>

> a

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.

> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Guest guest]

a,

It's the INCREASE in the number of mercury-laden vaccines that's causing the

problem.

Critical load...

Compare the number of vaccines now compared to back then´...

The children cannot tolerate the increase in the load...

[ ] Vaccine Question

When exactly did the US schools mandate that children must be vaccinated

before entering school? I run into people who don't buy the mercury

connection and they always point out the same thing, that thimerosal was in

vaccines back in the 30's, therefore it couldn't be connected with autism.

a

_________________________________________________________________

Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.

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=======================================================

[Guest guest]

I understand this and present all the info I have to support it, but I still

get many rebutals. It's perfectly clear to me, but getting others to see it

is another story.

a

>a,

>

>It's the INCREASE in the number of mercury-laden vaccines that's causing

>the problem.

>

>Critical load...

>

>Compare the number of vaccines now compared to back then´...

>

>The children cannot tolerate the increase in the load...

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

[Guest guest]

a, I was born in the thirties. At that time we received only ONE

vaccination.

I think it was smallpox vaccine and I believe doesn't now and didn't then

contain Thimerosal. I am not an expert, possibly some else can say for sure.

S

a Sessing <pjandkids@...> wrote:When exactly did the US schools mandate

that children must be vaccinated

before entering school? I run into people who don't buy the mercury

connection and they always point out the same thing, that thimerosal was in

vaccines back in the 30's, therefore it couldn't be connected with autism.

a

_________________________________________________________________

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=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Hi Ana

I saw a fairly extensive news story on this a month or so ago and one of the

things they said was that this vaccine is not suitable for people with

rheumatic illnesses due to our impaired immune systems. The story also

stated that, as the vaccine is a live virus, there is even some risk for

people with impaired immune systems being exposed to someone who has had the

vaccine within 3 weeks. I'm not anti-vaccine but I would be highly hesitant

myself to get this particular one and if you are in contact with those

receiving it, you may want to check further to see if you should be staying

away from them for awhile after they get it.

Hugs

a

rheumatic Vaccine question

> Dear group,

> I work in close contact with EMS first responders, and have wondered

whether the smallpox vaccination, which will become available to us very

shortly, is a good idea or not. Having had RA, and currently in remission,

I worry about it somehow triggering the RA again. Any and all input will be

appreciated. Thanks.

> Ana in Alaska

[Guest guest]

Dear Ana,

It is a risk either way. I have done extensive research on vaccines,

and none are completely without risk. The way I see it is that I

have enough problems as it is, and if I get small pox...so be it,

maybe it is my time to go anyway, but I can't play " Russian reulet "

with my health. I consider vaccines for the healthy population, and

that I am not. This is just my opinion.

ML

> Dear group,

> I work in close contact with EMS first responders, and have

wondered whether the smallpox vaccination, which will become

available to us very shortly, is a good idea or not. Having had RA,

and currently in remission, I worry about it somehow triggering the

RA again. Any and all input will be appreciated. Thanks.

> Ana in Alaska

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear a,

I'm curious why you think people with RA have impaired immune systems. Mine

is working just fine and knocking down my RA.

It seems to me that the people with impaired immune systems would be the

folks taking the immune suppressant DMARDS. I don't get colds, flu, or

infections since I started on the antibiotics back in November of 1998. The

last cold I had was back in the spring of 98'. It turned into pneumonia and

within months my RA emerged.

I got a small pox vaccination when I was a school kid and again in 1974

prior to mid-East travel. From what I've read Because of that, I gather I

could have another vaccination without much worry. I'm not planning on

having any more vaccinations though. When I was first getting sick I was in

Contact with Dr. Classen, the doctor mentioned earlier on the list in

relation to vaccines. That was back in 98' and he said then, " At this time,

all vaccinations are suspect " .

At the time he was at the CDC or NIH, can't remember which, but there was

quite a flurry about vaccinations going on. I pass on flu shots and don't

see it in my future to get another small pox vaccination unless we get hit

by terrorists.

This is not because I think my immune system is impaired but rather because

it is not looking like a good idea to me to mess with my immune system by

getting ANY vaccinations. JMO

in Oregon

[Guest guest]

Theresa,

Read, read, read, and then go with your gut instinct. Either way you

are taking a risk.

ML

> Hi all,

>

> I have had several doctors tell me that vaccines are not suitable

for people

> with rheumatic illnesses due to our impaired immune systems. I

have not

> taken a flu shot in over 6-7 years and have not had the flu. Some

of my new

> doctors are telling me that I need to get these new vaccines and I

do not

> know who to really believe.

>

> Theresa Barno

>

> RA 13.5 years Minocin 6 years

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm not saying that I necessarily think we have impaired immune systems,

just that the response of the medical professionals was that anyone with an

impaired immune system (and they specifically cited rheumatic patients)

would be unwise to obtain the smallpox vaccine. Like you, I don't tend to

catch bugs as much as I used to but I have noticed that when I do, I seem to

get much sicker than anyone else I know with the bug, take longer to recover

and usually have an RA flare within a couple of weeks after so that does

make me question whether my immune system is already taxed to the max

fighting RA bugs. I had a smallpox vaccine myself, preRA, when I was a

teenager prior to a trip to England. I remember having a pretty rough

reaction, being quite sick and barely able to move my leg (the injection

site) for a couple of days. While I got through it okay, I would be worried

now that I might have an even worse reaction but I also completely

understand the concern of first responders about the risks they face, as

well as the risks of the people they come in contact with for the 3 weeks

after their shots. I would be rather worried if I was a cancer or AIDS

patient in a hospital where all the staff was being vaccinated. It would

seem to me prudent to keep recently vaccinated staff away from patients with

strained immune systems for a 3 week period but the logistics of that would

likely be a nightmare. Guess there's no easy answer to this but that's one

of the scary things in this strange new battle against terrorists and what

they might do.

Hugs

a

Re: Vaccine question

> Dear a,

>

> I'm curious why you think people with RA have impaired immune systems.

Mine

> is working just fine and knocking down my RA...

[Guest guest]

I suspect they mention rheumatoid patients because of all the immune

suppressants many are taking.

Re: Vaccine question

>

>

> > Dear a,

> >

> > I'm curious why you think people with RA have impaired immune systems.

> Mine

> > is working just fine and knocking down my RA...

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Dear a,

>

> I'm curious why you think people with RA have impaired immune

systems. Mine

> is working just fine and knocking down my RA.

Had it occurred to you that if your immune system was really working

fine that you wouldn't have gotten RA in the first place? It brings

to mind the recent studies that showed upon studying RA patient's

immune systems, that they were comparative to people 70 years old. I

wouldn't call that a perky immune system.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Mark wrote, " Had it occurred to you that if your immune system was really

working

fine that you wouldn't have gotten RA in the first place? It brings

to mind the recent studies that showed upon studying RA patient's

immune systems, that they were comparative to people 70 years old. I

wouldn't call that a perky immune system. "

) Ah, Mark, you didn't notice the tense in the reference to my perky

immune system. Now it is working just fine. I've been on minocycline since

November of 98.

I got a bad cold in the spring of 98, after being under a great deal of

stress for an extended time. I was unable to slow down and the cold

developed into pneumonia, which took three courses of antibiotics to get rid

of. In the middle of this I suffered a bad fall. I had a hard time

recovering from the pneumonia and there were a couple other medical things

going on then too. It was within two months after that sick time that I had

my first obvious symptoms of RA. I was diagnosed in June and started the

minocycline a few months later.

Now that I take better care of myself, and am on the antibiotics, my immune

system is working just fine. Actually, it's working better than just fine

because though people around me are getting one bug or another, I'm not

coming down with anything. I hope that continues.

I'd like to see those study you refer to. I wonder if the people in that

study were taking immune suppressing drugs. From the beginning of this RA

Journey I decided not to take any chemicals that might attack my immune

system. This is due to what I've studied and observed with people who have

their immune systems ruined by HIV. I've lost a couple friends to that

disease and I would not do anything to go down that road.

Gratefully, I was able to accommodate some awful herxing and a lot of pain

in order to give the minocycline time to turn around the progression of my

RA, and now I'm mildly affected and much improved.

in Oregon

[Guest guest]

Despite not manufacturing vaccines with thimerosal at this time, the Doctors are

allowed to use up their store of vaccines, which could contain thimerosal. Of

course it is now 2003, so I don't know how long vaccines can be stored for, but

if you do opt to vaccinate perhaps the doctor could give each vaccine

individually and not as a cocktail. Also there is a website that lists which

manufacturers used thimerosal and which ones never used it as a preservative,

perhaps your pediatrician could use that brand that you can be sure is safe.. It

is http:www.thimerosalautism.com

vaccine question

Hi everyone. I am new to this group and I think it is great. So

much information that it's hard to take it all in. I have two sons

dx'ed with mild autism, 8 and 4. I just gave birth to my third son.

I am very concerned with the vaccinations. I declined the hep B shot

but am dreading his 2 month exam. Does anyone have any suggestions

to what route I should go. I was told that they changed the

vaccinations but how can I know for sure. Has anyone decline

vaccinations altogether and is there anyone out there that have more

than one child with autism or who have given birth recently? Thanks

in advance for all your help. Sharon

[Guest guest]

> I am very concerned with the vaccinations. I declined the hep B

shot

> but am dreading his 2 month exam. Does anyone have any suggestions

> to what route I should go.

I don't take my kids to " well child " exams any more.

You can just say " no " .

Your child is not *required* to have vaccinations, even for school.

Check here for your state's requirements for waivers

http://www.access1.net/via/STATES/allstates.htm

>> I was told that they changed the

> vaccinations but how can I know for sure.

They have not changed ALL of them, and they still insist on giving 5+

vaccines at each appt. If you want, you can allow them to give ONE

vax, for example polio, but none others until the next appt.

Be sure to read the package insert YOURSELF, don't rely on the nurses

to know whether or not the vax your child is getting actually does NOT

contain thimerosal. There is still a LOT of those vax out there on

the shelves, and many vax are still produced containing thimerosal.

More info here

http://www.danasview.net/myvaxopn.htm

Has anyone decline

> vaccinations altogether and is there anyone out there that have more

> than one child with autism or who have given birth recently?

I have four vax-injured kids. I am chelating metals out of all of

them, and they are all improving. But I no longer allow any

vaccinations of any of my kids. I stopped vaccinating the youngest

one at age 12 months, BEFORE her MMR.

Good luck.

Dana

[Guest guest]

This depends a lot on which state you live in.

First things first, go to the school office and ask for a vaccine

exemption form. They may give you crap but insist on it and they

should have one - only 2 states don't have laws that permit it.

Andy . . . . . . . .. . . . . .

> Hi. I would like to know if anyone here has gotten an exemption for

> vaccines for their child. I do not want to vaccinate my 5 year old

> with the MMR before he goes into kindergarten and I have a 4 month

> old that I do not want to vaccinate as well. If anyone has any

> advice please let me know. Thanks so much. Shar