Re: It's PC time again !!!

[Guest guest]

What I find so interesting about all of this is the double standard to it all. You have a very small group of people who are "offended" by the mention of Christ and go on about how the Constitution says you aren't supposed to force your views on others. Yet, what are they doing? By their lawsuits and such and getting Christmas removed from public, isn't that exactly what they are doing? Aren't they forcing their non-belief on Christians?

I think they are getting away with this because the Christian majority won't stand up to them and their lawyers. These people should just understand that Christmas is important to Christians and the season only lasts a bit more than a month. After that, they have several secular months until Easter. After that, they have many more secular months until Christmas comes around again. So, in a way, we Christians have to endure far longer stretches of secularism than they do of open displays of Christianity.

In places where Christians have stood their ground, they almost always win in the courts. Cases usually go in our favor. The problems is that is strong precedent for these cases, yet most of the people picked on by the secular people don't have the resources to know about that nor to fight the battle in court. As a result, many back down when they don't have to. Some companies have also caught on. Walmart was secular last year but they heard from Christians about it and so this year it is back. I'm not ascribing any but profit motives to Walmart, rather it just shows that if Christians band together, we can get Christmas back.

[Guest guest]

Dear Raven,

I agree with your wisdom - and thank you for including the description of the

commercial.

Currently living in Quebec, there does not seem to be the same " Politically

Correct "

mentality that I hear about from my friends in the U.S. - but then, searching

for a

Menorah, when Jewish friends visited and it was Chunaka and they had forgotten

to bring

theirs meant an hour commute to Montreal to find one.

Last year, or the year before, I heard that a group of Jews in New York were

gathering to

stand for something to the effect of - Jews Who Say It Is Okay to Say, " Merry

Christmas. "

And on my brother's farm, a Jewish family came to stay in a cottage he rents

out, and

akwardly asked him if it would be okay to wish us a, " Merry Christmas. " My

Aspie brother

laughed at the ice breaker and then wished them a, " Happy Chunaka. "

Having Moslem friends amongst the refugee community that I have volunteered with

since

1997 - we have yet to come up with a good " saying " for Ramadan - but I wish them

a

month of growing closer to God. And " oddly " - from what the press has seemed to

teach

us - of my Moslem friends and acquaintences - my Moslem Afghan friends have been

the

most supportive, respectful and well wishing of my Christiananity here in

Quebec.

You have really expressed an important truth in that we really should, in our

troubled

times, support positive spirituality in our neighbors of all faiths.

Thank you.

Deborah

>

> Every year, it gets more and more impossible to wish anyone a Merry

> Christmas as a number of minorities are up in arms, pushing

> for 'political correctness.' It's gotten so bad that during last

> week's weeklong fundraiser for the local hospital -- which was

> named " The Festival of Trees " due to PC pressure -- some choirs and

> performers were afraid of offending someone by singing Christmas

> carols.

>

> Excuse me?

>

> When Hannukah is upon us, I have yet to hear anyone say to a Jewish

> child, " Oh you can't sing that song, " Driedel, Driedel, Driedel "

> because it doesn't include everyone. "

>

> And I have yet to hear someone say to someone who celebrates

> Ramadam, " G-dam your Ramadam! Why do you have to push your religion on

> everyone anyway? "

>

> My point is, I believe we should be respectful of people's positive

> spiritual beliefs rather than insist on homogenizing everyone to the

> point of blandness in faith.

>

> This evening I heard a great example of giving the nod to Christians

> and PC people alike with an ad from IKEA that went like this: " For

> those of you who celebrate Christmas, we now have fresh Christmas

> trees available for $20.00. For those who don't celebrate Christmas,

> we have 5-foot pine-scented air fresheners, also $20.00. "

>

> That has to be one of the best thought-out commercials this year and

> it's funny without being funny at someone else's expense.

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/4/2006 2:33:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, mnmimi@... writes:

If anything I think that (again I am jewish) a commitment to the ideals of brotherhood(fellowship, non gender specific), recognising the family unit and I am never offended by the manger scene as it is a nuclear family? How does one become annoyed about that.

There is so much wrong with it these days. Society today is not one of unification, but rather one of special interests and victim groups squabbling at the government trough for "free money," handouts and favorable legislation. This is only going to get worse very soon as the new Congress promised all kinds of goodies during the campaign season. The result will be only for clamoring for ever more goodies from ever more groups and ever greater division amongst the people.

As for the nuclear family, that has long been the enemy. The Radical Feminists have been calling it the new slavery since at least the 1960s and the moral relativists have been saying that all "family" styles, including the unwed mother on welfare, were all equally valid. Of course, statistics show very plainly that the nuclear family of one man and one women is the superior model, there are many who would tear it down because it offends them. It is disgusting that they will risk the nation's future for their petty hatreds and unbridled hedonism.

[Guest guest]

Here is an article on the matter of families and such.

Lifestyles of the poor and anonymous

By Suzanne FieldsDecember 4, 2006

Lifestyles of the rich and famous have never been the same as lifestyles of the poor and anonymous, but for a while we acted as though they were. As Kay Hymowitz reminds us in her persuasively documented book called "Marriage and Caste in American," a typical single mother is neither the fictional version of Brown of sitcom fame, whose kid practically disappeared in the show because the writers didn't know what to do with him, nor Angelina Jolie, who is considered half a couple with Brad Pitt, with their natural daughter and several adopted children, but so far without a marriage license. Few people today think divorce and single parenthood are equal-opportunity misfortunes in a house on the beach of Malibu or a trailer camp in West Virginia, but we're still slow in finding solutions for the disastrous consequences of single parenthood in the underclass, which more than any other single ingredient contributes to a caste system in America. Welfare reform did much to remove financial incentives for poor women to continue having illegitimate children, but illegitimacy remains a big problem for poor blacks and the caste systems widens for children who grow up without fathers. Poor single mothers generally lack marketable skills that will carry them into a higher financial bracket and their children are at a major educational disadvantage when competing with children of middle-class families. These single moms have lost considerably more than a man in the house. They've lost the middle-class script for planning for the future, they've lost the traditional institutional arrangement that's required for upward mobility, made all the more crucial in a knowledge economy when a college dropout can no longer find a job in manufacturing. When Moynihan, as assistant secretary of labor in 1965, sounded the call of a prophet, drawing attention to the soaring numbers of fatherless families in the black community, he was excoriated by so-called revolutionary scholars, radical feminists and civil rights leaders who branded him a "racist," who was blind to the positive power of the black matriarch "role model." Well that was then, and this is now, and despite welfare reform, the ghetto is still reeling from cultural attitudes that contribute to a black youth's rapper vocabulary that celebrates irresponsible behavior of boys in the 'hood, who look at women as " 'ho's." When the white revolutionaries in the '60s narcissistically valued independence over bourgeois marriage, they overlooked the importance of marriage as a social institution. Ideologically, we moved from a child-centered nation to an adult-centered one, separating children from parents, function from form. Marriage is not only a private contract, but a public one, too, with attendant laws governing care and responsibility for children. Traditional marriage, at its best, fosters social attitudes to help build self-reliant, competent, industrious, self-governing citizens. "The foundation of national morality must be laid in private families," wrote in 1778. We don't have to read about soccer moms and dads and all those ambitious white and black middle-class parents who today fight to get their children into the best nursery schools to realize that many men and women have recovered from the bad old days, but it's also clear that the black ghetto families have not made the same recovery in rediscovering the benefits of marriage. "The old-fashioned married-couple-with children model is doing quite well among college-educated women," writes Kay Hymowitz. "It is primarily among lower-income women with only a high school education that it is in poor health." Children in this environment don't get an educational message that teaches them society's manners, providing the structure to learn from what Brigitte Berger calls the "family's great educational mission." Education is the daily drip, drip, drip of details that engender in young children the aspirations and the tools to make a better life for themselves in their pursuit of happiness. Neither of my parents, for example, graduated from high school, but they were determined that their two children would go to college. That was and is the message in many families today, but it's a message lacking in the ghetto. That's what Bill Cosby meant when he told parents: "You've got to straighten up your house! Straighten up your apartment! Straighten up your child!" Many critics, of course, accused him of blaming the victim. But he wants to encourage a counter-revolution, a generational backlash against lost opportunities. That will require a sense of "can do," and "I do."

[Guest guest]

Yes, I too think it is ludacris to negate faith on the grounds that

it isn't mine!! I think the ideal of community, family, support, are

far more important than semantics. Aspies for love .com Raven

you should start the site. It isn't that we are devoid of feeling, I

think as a group we are respectful of diversity. I would never say a

bad word if I were near a church when I was a child, the church

couldn't hear me, but I understood that hatred had no place in that

house of worship(in my mind) It wasn't until I was older that I

found out I keep things in my heart that others don't, anyway my

christain " friends " liberally swore on church property. (still can't

even begin to understand losing your sense of respect, or honor, for

cheap laughs. Cursing is not humor to me, If you can't say it

without cursing then you must not have a point. I knew that But

Raven reinforced that. (I saw that a lot in court) There was a man

cursing and threatening a woman right in the courthouse, no one stood

up. I wanted to very badly but I hadn't spoken on Ravi's behalf yet,

and I didn't want to compromise my son. If I had been on a mission

for myself I would have and have. I reported a group of men

employees teasing a female employee simly because she was young and

they were surrounding her like she was a prize/worthless. It was a

male grunting match.

I have experiences like that, I equate situations to their animal

rite counterparts. Like I am the field researcher, it dispells some

of my anxiety. But I had to step in, they were annoying me (she

thought it was ok) because I had more concern for her humanity than

she did and there were other people and children viewing this. That

is not life. That is not respectful.

SO MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM YOUR FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD JEW

[Guest guest]

If anything I think that (again I am jewish) a commitment to the

ideals of brotherhood(fellowship, non gender specific), recognising

the family unit and I am never offended by the manger scene as it is

a nuclear family? How does one become annoyed about that. OK so we

don't all pray the same way but we are all human and Christmas always

represented a time to forgive, show people that you think of them

(not the push for extravagence we see) I like Deborah description, I

keep trying to imagine it and it seems inconcievable. I don't

picture Martha but more Bing Crosby/warm cosy real. It makes

me want to make cocoa. But I view Hanukah as a testament to hope and

commitment Kwanza as unification of spirit. Each holiday has a focus

on some aspect of human nature that is unspoiled but rarely

expressed. We get caught up in buying stuff/ or someone does not

many in this group sound that way. My daughter wants stuff 20, fun

happy girly (not me at all)social. We get her stuff I let her pick

the stuff, still can't buy paper to rip up so no wrapping. My other

daughter, wants no stuff, stuff scares her. She feels responsible to

respond in kind and it cripples her with guilt. So I am easy on her,

we shop I get her a few things I don't wrap them and there is no

pressure on " THE DAY " usually we do a more hanukah like thing, not

really adhereing to any rules. I get things she needs, and we call

them Hanukah gifts. Ravi is 6 and holidays mean nearly nothing to him

he just wants toys. That is why the air can be fun CHILDREN. or

adults being children. anyway genuine smiling

[Guest guest]

Dear Mimi,

I liked your descriptions of the Holidays - you captured the essense. And that

is what -

maybe - we are looking for here. Going beyond the materialism to the essense.

When I moved to Connecticut from Missouri, at age nine, many of my classmates

were

Jewish, practicing or Humanist. Ethical Culture was big in my town of Westport

- held at

my Church - so I was able to go to both Church Bible Classes and attend Ethical

Cuture's

youth group. My church also hosted the local sinagogue, for a number of years,

as they

built their own Temple - we learned songs, dances, practices from Jewish and

Christian

culture and then Ethical Culture taught respect for people's religions and

cultures around

the globe.

I loved celebrating Chunuka - it seemed natural to me as my Bible study classes

in my

youth and with my Grandmother and cousins had celebrated Fiath and Trust in the

lamp

being lit for eight days - with my new Jewish neighbors and classmates I just

had a name

for it. I loved listening to the prayers in Hebrew and watching as the candles

were lit.

My Holidays are anything but Martha STewart - candle molds and old tin cans are

easily

availible - food co-ops in Vermont usually always sell Beeswax by the pound from

the

local hive owners - AND I have gotten it on line for four dollars a pound - it

melts easily in

an old sauce pan and smells so sweet! And the table of scraps and materials is

just a pile

- people have to go through it themselves. Tea and coffee are easy -

Mimi - believe me, I am all thumbs and cannot stand stress - so what I do is not

Martha

. I started making my " nature angels " - thirteen years ago while my

mother was

dying of Cancer and I needed something little to work with - with my hands - out

of my

head - as I took care of her. I took things that I collect on my walks and

scraps of bright

colored fabric - things that I find and stored for years as I am facinated by

the cast offs of

others, little things of nature - so it now is evolved into an activity that

many of my

friends, of all faiths, feel drawn to. Men find it fun, too - as do children -

it really is an all

age activity.

In Westport, Ct, where, Martha moved in - there were many Christmas

times that I

went into the woods and cut down any scrub tree that I found. People would

laugh - as

they were not the conical forms one gets from the Christmas tree farms. With a

few

strings of lights, an a small box of ornaments that I keep - and then strings of

popcorn,

cranberries - colored paper circles I would get my friends to help me make a

tree. For

Several elderly friends I would find small trees in the woods, and with one

string of lights -

a bit bottle to keep the tree watered - and some friends making paper cut out

snowflakes

and strings of colored construction paper circles - we could go over with tea

and deliver a

home bound elder a bit of cheer . . . . this was not Martha glitter -

just fun and

good cheer . . .

As for the Celiac baking that I do . . I don't do the fancy stuff = although I

have spent a

saturday evening making bagels!!!! - the walnut flour is simply ground in a

coffee grinder

and mixed by hand with organic cocoa powder, sugar, eggs, baking powder and a

few

other things to make great, very rich brownies and/or a cake. I use to be

daunted by

cakes and cooking as my mother didn't . . . she simply didn't like to cook and

worshiped

Mc's once it came in . . . . as my Step mother was a cord en bleu chef and

a writer

of cookbooks, a food editor - I came out of childhood and early adulthood

paranoid about

touching a stove - but having been hospitalized and sick for years with Celiac

disease,

before it was discovered - and being older now - I decided to claim back the

simplicity of

cooking basic things that I could enjoy and others could to . . .that were

wheat, rye, barley

- well, Gluten Free. I was determined to learn - and I spent a number of

Saturday

afternoons, listening to opera on Vermont Public Radio and slowly learning

without others

hovering over my shoulder. I found that cooking basic, good, healthy meals and

really

hearty, Gluten free treats was possible.

I love how you shop for your daughters and how you recognize they are unique.

That is

wonderful! Surely they will look back and be pleased that you were their

mother!

I hope you and all here have a good Holiday Season and that you find the essense

and

spirit of them - the love, joy, appreciation for life and what we have - and

more, by

focussing on continuing with the good things that you have been doing and adding

new

practices that your heart draws you to . .

Deborah

>

> If anything I think that (again I am jewish) a commitment to the

> ideals of brotherhood(fellowship, non gender specific), recognising

> the family unit and I am never offended by the manger scene as it is

> a nuclear family? How does one become annoyed about that. OK so we

> don't all pray the same way but we are all human and Christmas always

> represented a time to forgive, show people that you think of them

> (not the push for extravagence we see) I like Deborah description, I

> keep trying to imagine it and it seems inconcievable. I don't

> picture Martha but more Bing Crosby/warm cosy real. It makes

> me want to make cocoa. But I view Hanukah as a testament to hope and

> commitment Kwanza as unification of spirit. Each holiday has a focus

> on some aspect of human nature that is unspoiled but rarely

> expressed. We get caught up in buying stuff/ or someone does not

> many in this group sound that way. My daughter wants stuff 20, fun

> happy girly (not me at all)social. We get her stuff I let her pick

> the stuff, still can't buy paper to rip up so no wrapping. My other

> daughter, wants no stuff, stuff scares her. She feels responsible to

> respond in kind and it cripples her with guilt. So I am easy on her,

> we shop I get her a few things I don't wrap them and there is no

> pressure on " THE DAY " usually we do a more hanukah like thing, not

> really adhereing to any rules. I get things she needs, and we call

> them Hanukah gifts. Ravi is 6 and holidays mean nearly nothing to him

> he just wants toys. That is why the air can be fun CHILDREN. or

> adults being children. anyway genuine smiling

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

What is happening in Congress and many places is so disheartening. For me, what

Raven,

and Mimi are focussing on - trying to find, discover and be with the

spirit of the

Holidays - to toss out the Materialism and the focussing on " political

correctness " - to find

relationship to self and others - to spirit for those so inclined - maybe this

is what can

shift things.

Certainly much of the legal wanglings, movements, etc have done little to really

bring

about wholeness in human and planetary life. This coming Holiday I will be

spending it

alone, house sitting for cherished pets of friends and my own guys - my

furniture in

storage as I wait out legal situation to leave the Canadian Province I am living

in. But I am

really, despite outer stress of stituation - very happy. I love being outside

with various

dogs, patting cats, watching fish and birds . . . I love reading - for me,

praying and

reflecting - and cherishing simple pleasures is so much nicer than the mad panic

that I see

around me.

Ramadan is now past this year . . but I hope that everyone has what they wish .

.. a Merry

Christmas, a Joyful Quanza, a Happy Chanuka, a Happy Roman New Year . . . .

closeness to

what life is really about.

Best Wishes,

Deborah

>

>

> In a message dated 12/4/2006 2:33:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> mnmimi@... writes:

>

> If anything I think that (again I am jewish) a commitment to the

> ideals of brotherhood(ideals of brotherhood(<WBR>fellowship, non

> the family unit and I am never offended by the manger scene as it is

> a nuclear family? How does one become annoyed about that.

>

>

> There is so much wrong with it these days. Society today is not one of

> unification, but rather one of special interests and victim groups squabbling

at

> the government trough for " free money, " handouts and favorable legislation.

> This is only going to get worse very soon as the new Congress promised all

kinds

> of goodies during the campaign season. The result will be only for clamoring

> for ever more goodies from ever more groups and ever greater division

> amongst the people.

>

> As for the nuclear family, that has long been the enemy. The Radical

> Feminists have been calling it the new slavery since at least the 1960s and

the

> moral relativists have been saying that all " family " styles, including the

unwed

> mother on welfare, were all equally valid. Of course, statistics show very

> plainly that the nuclear family of one man and one women is the superior

model,

> there are many who would tear it down because it offends them. It is

> disgusting that they will risk the nation's future for their petty hatreds

and

> unbridled hedonism.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The trees are going back up actually. This all sprang from a lawyer, of course. The Rabbi's lawyer threatened to sue if the Menorah was put up, so the airport took everything down. It got messy, including threats against the Rabbi, but the trees are going back up.

Again it is a case of the secularists, those who demand freedom of speech, denying that very right to someone they disagree with. Very typical. Actually there are scores of lawsuits every year by the ACLU and others about Christian symbols and prayer. Almost every time these matters come before the Supreme Court, the secularists lose. Still, they level the same suits again and again. They get away with it because most of their victims don't know that cases just like it have already been decided against the secularists and can't afford to fight in court. The secularists do this so much, I really think the government should sue them to recover the scores of billions of Federal dollars wasted fighting the same cases over and over again.