Re: My take on religion, short version

[Guest guest]

Kitty:

> While I don't believe in the " higher power " sort of God, I believe

strongly in willpower and self-control. Why must one deciding to not

take drugs, etc, be ascribed to a God? What about personal choice? I

don't understand when Christians say " I did so-and-so because I'm

Christian. " Why not, " I did so-and-so because I felt it was *right*? "

The " Christian " line makes it sound like they are performing by rote,

rather than from their hearts or minds. Isn't there strength in

finding a moral center, doing good deeds, etc, *without* chalking it

all up to a God?

My experience is that when we do things because we think we " ought to " that

usually don't have the same quality and positive effect as when done from

the heart because one truly wants to.

I also don't believe abstinence necessarily has to do with either God nor

will-power in every case; sometimes one just grows out of certain patterns

of behavior when one is finished with them. In such cases there is little

risk of relapse since one has simply lost interest. Then temptation is not a

problem; what once may have felt like an irresistible urge or attraction

will only leave one indifferent or even turn one off.

I think it is those who have not yet fully grown out of their own

urges/addictions etc. who feel a need to fight them in others; what they are

really doing is fighting them in themselves.

Inger

[Guest guest]

The essence of all spirituality is to not take things for granted.

One corollary is to always be grateful.

[Guest guest]

The essence of all spirituality is to not take things for granted.

One corollary is to always be grateful.

[Guest guest]

Sometimes people who realize urges lead people astray wish to teach

others the same principle out of the goodness of their hearts though.

Tom

Administrator

I think it is those who have not yet fully grown out of their own

urges/addictions etc. who feel a need to fight them in others; what

they are really doing is fighting them in themselves.

Inger

[Guest guest]

--- Lissa <catgrrl522@...> wrote:

> While I don't believe in the " higher power " sort of

> God, I believe

> strongly in willpower and self-control. Why must one

> deciding to not

> take drugs, etc, be ascribed to a God? What about

> personal choice? I

> don't understand when Christians say " I did

> so-and-so because I'm

> Christian. " Why not, " I did so-and-so because I felt

> it was *right*? "

I wrote on the list a few days ago that I have always

been a " straight arrow " . My parents were alcoholics,

and my brothers turned to drugs. I decided by the time

I was 12 that I wanted to do neither drugs or alcohol.

It seemed foolish and destructive to me so I never

did. Never started smoking, either, for the same

reasons.

I became a Christian when I was 19 because I felt God

was seeking me out. I always believed He was there,

but never felt I could make a " connection " with Him

until I was 19 [and I did try for several years and

then just gave up]. It seemed for whatever reason when

I stopped looking for Him, He came looking for me. I

was quite surprised. I spoke of feeling alone before

then. Since becoming a Christian I have never felt

that alone again.

One might say that I am just playing mind games with

myelf, but I do know what it is like to live in my own

head and create worlds there to cope or just entertain

myself, as I have a high ability to fantasize. What I

have now with God is not the same as when I fantasize.

There is a vast difference. If I thought my

relationship with God was merely in my own

imagination, I wouldn't bother.

> The " Christian " line makes it sound like they are

> performing by rote,

> rather than from their hearts or minds. Isn't there

> strength in

> finding a moral center, doing good deeds, etc,

> *without* chalking it

> all up to a God?

I know what you mean here, but that is not the case

with myself. I didn't need God to rescue me from a

life of drugs or alchohol. I always did the right

thing because it was the right thing to do and I get

immense satisfaction from doing the right thing, and I

always felt badly doing the wrong thing.

When I became a Christian at 19 my mother was puzzled

as to why I did. " Why do *you* need to be 'born

again'? " she asked. " You have always done the right

things. " Of my older brother, who became a Christian

the same year I did, she said, " I can see your brother

needing it. With all the drugs, drinking and stealing

he has done, HE really needs it! "

I told Mom that it was not a matter of being rescued

from bad behavior, but relationship. I love God. I

like talking to Him, I feel Him with me. She didn't

get that and many people still don't.

Take care,

Gail :-)

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yes, sometimes. But I've not seen much goodness from the heart coming from

conservative faction on this forum on THIS particular issue, only harsh

judgementalism that does not respect the individual's right to make their

own choices.

Others focus mainly on cleaning up their own act and respect others' right

to live as they see fit. They may INFORM of the dangers of this or that -

out of the goodness of their hearts, of course ;-) - but they don't get on

anyone's case to change their ways, unless those ways are somehow having a

direct negative impact on others.

Inger

Re: My take on religion, short version

Sometimes people who realize urges lead people astray wish to teach

others the same principle out of the goodness of their hearts though.

Tom

Administrator

I think it is those who have not yet fully grown out of their own

urges/addictions etc. who feel a need to fight them in others; what

they are really doing is fighting them in themselves.

Inger

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

Yes, sometimes. But I've not seen much goodness from the heart coming from

conservative faction on this forum on THIS particular issue, only harsh

judgementalism that does not respect the individual's right to make their

own choices.

Others focus mainly on cleaning up their own act and respect others' right

to live as they see fit. They may INFORM of the dangers of this or that -

out of the goodness of their hearts, of course ;-) - but they don't get on

anyone's case to change their ways, unless those ways are somehow having a

direct negative impact on others.

Inger

Re: My take on religion, short version

Sometimes people who realize urges lead people astray wish to teach

others the same principle out of the goodness of their hearts though.

Tom

Administrator

I think it is those who have not yet fully grown out of their own

urges/addictions etc. who feel a need to fight them in others; what

they are really doing is fighting them in themselves.

Inger

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

I think it is those who have not yet fully grown out of their own

urges/addictions etc. who feel a need to fight them in others; what

they are really doing is fighting them in themselves.

Inger

[Guest guest]

" We " would be whom Inger describes as the " conservative faction on

this forum. "

If you want names, ask Inger. She is the one who prejudicially

compartimentalized us.

Tom

Administrator

Who is 'we' ?

Lida

Inger:

" Yes, sometimes. But I've not seen much goodness from the heart

coming from conservative faction on this forum on THIS particular

issue, only harsh judgementalism that does not respect the

individual's right to make their own choices. "

Tom:

That's because you conveniently ignored the days when we DID try to

help out of the goodness of our hearts. Now we have folks trying to

portray illegal behavior as being fine and dandy, and us law abiding

citizens just want them to be quiet.