Re: Teen-repellent shop siren silenced by human rights fears

[Guest guest]

Isn't that typical? Teach the hoodlums that anyone who tries to protect themselves from them is the one who gets punished, so go ahead and be as thuggish as you like. Its your right to terrorize and rob innocent shoppers and but a business out of business. They are really going to be in trouble when those kids grow up with an attitude like that. Then again, this has been going on for a while so it it little wonder crime has been going up and civility going down.

PS, they ought to take those human rights people and put them outside the store to lecture those thugs on their behavior and see how long it takes for them to get beaten up. See if they still oppose the Mosquito then.

[Guest guest]

I have previously seen a programme regarding music and anti-social

behaviour. Experiments were run on different music to see the affect

it had on people and behaviour.

A blank wall was set up including speakers - when no music was

played, people (mostly teens) would loiter and deface the wall and

engage in bad behaviour - the same happened for most music played

too - with the exception of classical music.

When classical music was played - there was no loitering so to speak

and no engagement in graffiti and other bad behaviours - so maybe

shops should pump out classical music :-) Surely there will be no ill

affects to animals or babies with such.

>

>

http://news./s/afp/20060324/od_afp/britainpoliceyouth_060324

>

175603;_ylt=AvC7F1UJUzotMshx.EZfn7egOrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN

> 5bmNhdA--

>

> Teen-repellent shop siren silenced by human rights fears

>

> Fri Mar 24, 12:56 PM ET

>

> LONDON (AFP) - A high-tech alarm audible only to youngsters which

> has dramatically cut loutish behaviour outside a British shop must

> be switched off over fears it infringes human rights, police said.

>

> The Mosquito emits an irritating high-pitched pulse that most

people

> aged under 20 can hear but almost nobody over 30 can.

>

> The Spar grocery shop on Caerlon Road in Newport, south Wales said

> anti-social behaviour had plunged by 84 percent outside the

premises

> since it was installed earlier this year.

>

> However, human rights concerns have swatted The Mosquito -- and

> stung the shop's furious managers in the process.

>

> " It's absolutely disgusting, " a spokesman for the shop said.

>

> " These louts can infringe on our rights to run a profitable shop

for

> the community yet we can't dare infringe on their right to loiter

> and make life a misery for our shoppers, " the BBC quoted him as

> saying.

>

> A police spokesman said: " Gwent Police agreed to monitor a trial at

> a retail premises on Caerleon Road and there was an initial

> indication that it was successful at deterring anti-social

behaviour

> and was positively received by the local community.

>

> " However, it was decided by the Newport Community Safety

Partnership

> (NCSP) that before endorsing the device, issues concerning health

> and safety and human rights need to be resolved. "

>

> A concerned NCSP spokesman told the BBC: " If the noise upset a baby

> in a pram or caused a dog in a neighbouring house to bark

> incessantly then these are issues we would have to address. "

>

[Guest guest]

I'm glad I don't live there and have a reason why I might use that

store: I'm one of those over 30 that would most likely hear it loud

and clear, and probably be rather pained by the whole thing.

It is unfortunate that someone felt the need to create such a thing in

the first place

>

> Isn't that typical? Teach the hoodlums that anyone who tries to

protect

> themselves from them is the one who gets punished, so go ahead and

be as thuggish

> as you like. Its your right to terrorize and rob innocent shoppers

and but a

> business out of business. They are really going to be in trouble

when those

> kids grow up with an attitude like that. Then again, this has been

going on

> for a while so it it little wonder crime has been going up and

civility going

> down.

>

>

>

> PS, they ought to take those human rights people and put them

outside the

> store to lecture those thugs on their behavior and see how long it

takes for

> them to get beaten up. See if they still oppose the Mosquito then.

>

[Guest guest]

In Albany, New York (where I live), a store in a local outdoor mall

has indeed found that piping classical music into the area just

outside the store does deter loiterers and attract customers.

In New York City, New York, the Port Authority bus/subway hub (which

combines transit terminals with malls) plays classical music indoors

on loudspeakers during the peak hours for loitering and robbery. They,

too, have found that this deters unwanted activity while encouraging

wanted activity.

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

Supposedly (something I heard on TV) classical music played in

restaurants has the affect of diners behaving as if they are more

affluent, therefore spending more.

>

> In Albany, New York (where I live), a store in a local outdoor mall

> has indeed found that piping classical music into the area just

> outside the store does deter loiterers and attract customers.

>

> In New York City, New York, the Port Authority bus/subway hub (which

> combines transit terminals with malls) plays classical music indoors

> on loudspeakers during the peak hours for loitering and robbery.

They,

> too, have found that this deters unwanted activity while encouraging

> wanted activity.

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

About the " teens'-ears-only " shop-siren: although I've just turned 43

(March 19th), that would have kept me out of the store too - because I

have *very* good hearing at *very* high frequencies (those usually

only heard by teens and children), and find many of those high sounds

painful. In fact, I can (very painfully) hear most of those " silent "

dog-whistles designed for only dogs to hear them.

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

I'm amazed that there are sounds only people under 30 can hear! I

didn't know people lost some of their hearing by age 30.

>

>

http://news./s/afp/20060324/od_afp/britainpoliceyouth_060324

>

175603;_ylt=AvC7F1UJUzotMshx.EZfn7egOrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN

> 5bmNhdA--

>

> Teen-repellent shop siren silenced by human rights fears

>

> Fri Mar 24, 12:56 PM ET

>

> LONDON (AFP) - A high-tech alarm audible only to youngsters which

> has dramatically cut loutish behaviour outside a British shop must

> be switched off over fears it infringes human rights, police said.

>

> The Mosquito emits an irritating high-pitched pulse that most

people

> aged under 20 can hear but almost nobody over 30 can.

>

> The Spar grocery shop on Caerlon Road in Newport, south Wales said

> anti-social behaviour had plunged by 84 percent outside the

premises

> since it was installed earlier this year.

>

> However, human rights concerns have swatted The Mosquito -- and

> stung the shop's furious managers in the process.

>

> " It's absolutely disgusting, " a spokesman for the shop said.

>

> " These louts can infringe on our rights to run a profitable shop

for

> the community yet we can't dare infringe on their right to loiter

> and make life a misery for our shoppers, " the BBC quoted him as

> saying.

>

> A police spokesman said: " Gwent Police agreed to monitor a trial at

> a retail premises on Caerleon Road and there was an initial

> indication that it was successful at deterring anti-social

behaviour

> and was positively received by the local community.

>

> " However, it was decided by the Newport Community Safety

Partnership

> (NCSP) that before endorsing the device, issues concerning health

> and safety and human rights need to be resolved. "

>

> A concerned NCSP spokesman told the BBC: " If the noise upset a baby

> in a pram or caused a dog in a neighbouring house to bark

> incessantly then these are issues we would have to address. "

>

[Guest guest]

Re:

> I'm amazed that there are sounds only people under 30 can hear! I

> didn't know people lost some of their hearing by age 30.

Yes - most people lose their hearing gradually throughout life -

starting with the highest pitches and working down to lower and lower

pitches.

If you assemble a large group of people of different ages (5 to

105, say), play a series of soft musical tones (e.g., from a

syntehsizer or an audiometry machine) that starts off very

high-pitched and then gradually descends, and ask everyone in the room

to put up a hand when he or she can hear a sound, at first you will

have only the tiny children putting their hands up, then also the

somewhat older children, then the teen-agers too, etc., etc. I have

seen this done at a science-museum facts-and-entertainment

demonstration about the senses. And, yes, it truly amazed just about

everybody there ... except the doctors and the biology-teachers in the

audience ...

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

How interesting, Kate, thanks for sharing that. I can't believe I

didn't know that. (So many things to learn, I don't how anyone who

doesn't have a thirst for knowledge gets by! (Well, it's obvious some

don't!)) My hearing is sensitive but I don't think I necessarily hear

more than others, maybe a little. I've found myself, though, hoping I

would lose a little of my hearing (by playing music loud--I can stand

loud MUSIC for a limited time, just not other sounds) until I

realized I would probably still be sensitive, yet not be able to

clearly understand people and that would be a double whammy.

>

> Re:

>

> > I'm amazed that there are sounds only people under 30 can hear! I

> > didn't know people lost some of their hearing by age 30.

>

> Yes - most people lose their hearing gradually throughout life -

> starting with the highest pitches and working down to lower and

lower

> pitches.

> If you assemble a large group of people of different ages (5 to

> 105, say), play a series of soft musical tones (e.g., from a

> syntehsizer or an audiometry machine) that starts off very

> high-pitched and then gradually descends, and ask everyone in the

room

> to put up a hand when he or she can hear a sound, at first you will

> have only the tiny children putting their hands up, then also the

> somewhat older children, then the teen-agers too, etc., etc. I have

> seen this done at a science-museum facts-and-entertainment

> demonstration about the senses. And, yes, it truly amazed just about

> everybody there ... except the doctors and the biology-teachers in

the

> audience ...

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

Strict:

> I'm glad I don't live there and have a reason why I might use that

store: I'm one of those over 30 that would most likely hear it loud

and clear, and probably be rather pained by the whole thing.

> It is unfortunate that someone felt the need to create such a thing in

the first place

It would probably repel me too!

And some might feel it even if they don't consciously hear it. The Aspie

girl who moved into my old house said she had this mosquito thing in her

green house. She was surprised to start feeling nauseous and really weird

every time she had been out to tend to her plants. Only after a while did

she start making the connection with the mosquito repellent - seems to have

affected her delicate CNS somehow. Hardly surprising; it's the same with

infra-sound that may induce migraines and other health problems even if

inaudible.

Inger

[Guest guest]

As I have mentioned here earlier (but not for a long time, I think) Swedish

light researchers found a similar pattern with flicker perception.

In a study on healthy adults of varying ages, the ones who were negatively

affected by flicker tended to be younger and less addicted to alcohol and

nicotine, which makes sense since both alcohol, nicotine and age (as Kate

points out) may dull the senses.

Another study on a small group of adult people who were electrosensitive,

surprisingly found that the electrosensitive group had the ability to

percieve flicker above the normal cut-off rate (about 90 periods per second)

and were also reacted stronger (on ECG, EEG etc.) to other sensory stimuli

such as unexpected sound or touch, than the non-electrosensitive

control-group.

So it seems that normally one's senses get dulled by age, but in the 20-25%

of the population that is markedly more sensitive than the average Joe,

sensitivity may remain about the same, or even increase. I have certainly

become more sensitive overall than I was as a teen.

Sound sensitivity may also in some cases be due to damage of the ear. My

sound sensitivity did not develop until in my early 30's, after I stupidly

went to some very loud concerts without ear protectors.

Inger

Re: Re: Teen-repellent shop siren silenced by

human rights fears

Re:

> I'm amazed that there are sounds only people under 30 can hear! I

> didn't know people lost some of their hearing by age 30.

Yes - most people lose their hearing gradually throughout life -

starting with the highest pitches and working down to lower and lower

pitches.

If you assemble a large group of people of different ages (5 to

105, say), play a series of soft musical tones (e.g., from a

syntehsizer or an audiometry machine) that starts off very

high-pitched and then gradually descends, and ask everyone in the room

to put up a hand when he or she can hear a sound, at first you will

have only the tiny children putting their hands up, then also the

somewhat older children, then the teen-agers too, etc., etc. I have

seen this done at a science-museum facts-and-entertainment

demonstration about the senses. And, yes, it truly amazed just about

everybody there ... except the doctors and the biology-teachers in the

audience ...