Conner passed out at school

May 12, 2006

Well, I am not a doctor - but I am an EMT and I for one am FLOORED that they

did NOT call 911 when your child passed out. The fact that he was OUT for 3

minutes.....and they DID NOT call is almost negligent. They are not medical

specialists - they know his history - and quite frankly...no one could know

(during the incident) that this was not something life threatening.....so why

didn't they call??? And WHY was your ped not really interested in this?

TRUE it could be nothing.....but it is NOT normal to pass out like that for

that length of time.....for all you know it could have been NERVES, YES....but

there ARE other things that CAN cause you to pass out that NEED to be explored.

SIGH.....sorry for the caps...that's NOT me yelling.....those words are the

ones I am STRESSING.......LOL.

I just HATE when the school system doesn't take stuff like this

seriously......

I don't want to stress you out.....my goal is not to do that....but the

proper procedure should have been to call 911. We respond to PLENTY of calls

about children passing out or having 'odd' things happen at school....it's

their

responsibility to cover their butts and make sure the kid is OKAY.

GRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Sorry he passed out...and I am sure he's probably fine.....but I can't

believe the school took the chance of 'assuming' that he was going to come out

of

it....and the fact that he was altered after it......ugh! If this was more

serious.....they would have wasted prescious time.

Okay...I am off my soap box.....I just get frustrated sometimes.

HUGS SWEETIE!!!!!!

Stefani

(http://www.baby-gaga.com/)

May 12, 2006

:

I'm shocked the school didn't call 911. has " pallid breath-holding

spells " (more on that in a minute) and I had to reaaaalllllly convince the

school

that they should NOT call 911 when that happens. It happens to her an average

of twice a year.

Pallid breath-holding spells are when something happens that limits the

oxygen you get. In 's case, it's always with a head injury, but it's not

the

head injury that causes the spell, it's the crying afterward. She cries so hard

when she's hurt badly that it's like exhale-exhale-exhale-exhale -- she's not

getting any breaths in. Her eyes start to roll back in her head, she turns

pale (hence, the " pallid " part of the title. If you turn blue it's called a

" cyanotic " breath-holding spell), then she loses consciousness. Her limbs

twitch,

so it looks like a seizure but it's NOT. She usually comes to within a minute

and is groggy but not out of it like a seizure (which she has also had, the

staring or focal type).

The reason I'm giving you this info is that other things (besides the strong

crying) can cause these spells -- basically anything that deprives you of

oxygen. The fainting in the days of old with the corsets and the heat and the

prim

upright stance is basically just a form of pallid breath-holding spell.

Contrary to the sound of the name, you don't " hold " your breath on purpose. But

if

you are nervous you can be unknowingly taking shallow breaths to the point you

are limiting your oxygen, then you stand up quickly --

I don't know about the being out for three minutes though. Did they time

that? People are notoriously bad at estimating things like that. If it truly was

three minutes, that does seem like a long time.

By the way, these spells are the same thing that happens to toddlers when

they have a big tantrum and pass out. It is usually outgrown by school age, but

leave it to one of our kids to continue on against the stats. Anyway, if it

seems to be happening before your eyes some time, blow in his face and sternly

tell him to breathe. If that stops it (I've done this with ), then it's

probably that type of spell. The trick is being RIGHT THERE when it happens --

yeah, right!

(mom to , age 7, dairy intolerant-related GERD -- currently has

polysaccharide antibody def, previously had transient IgG, IgA, t-cell & other

defs... and also to Kate, age 3!, more dairy intolerant but very healthy!)

May 12, 2006

:

I'm shocked the school didn't call 911. has " pallid breath-holding

spells " (more on that in a minute) and I had to reaaaalllllly convince the

school

that they should NOT call 911 when that happens. It happens to her an average

of twice a year.

Pallid breath-holding spells are when something happens that limits the

oxygen you get. In 's case, it's always with a head injury, but it's not

the

head injury that causes the spell, it's the crying afterward. She cries so hard

when she's hurt badly that it's like exhale-exhale-exhale-exhale -- she's not

getting any breaths in. Her eyes start to roll back in her head, she turns

pale (hence, the " pallid " part of the title. If you turn blue it's called a

" cyanotic " breath-holding spell), then she loses consciousness. Her limbs

twitch,

so it looks like a seizure but it's NOT. She usually comes to within a minute

and is groggy but not out of it like a seizure (which she has also had, the

staring or focal type).

The reason I'm giving you this info is that other things (besides the strong

crying) can cause these spells -- basically anything that deprives you of

oxygen. The fainting in the days of old with the corsets and the heat and the

prim

upright stance is basically just a form of pallid breath-holding spell.

Contrary to the sound of the name, you don't " hold " your breath on purpose. But

if

you are nervous you can be unknowingly taking shallow breaths to the point you

are limiting your oxygen, then you stand up quickly --

I don't know about the being out for three minutes though. Did they time

that? People are notoriously bad at estimating things like that. If it truly was

three minutes, that does seem like a long time.

By the way, these spells are the same thing that happens to toddlers when

they have a big tantrum and pass out. It is usually outgrown by school age, but

leave it to one of our kids to continue on against the stats. Anyway, if it

seems to be happening before your eyes some time, blow in his face and sternly

tell him to breathe. If that stops it (I've done this with ), then it's

probably that type of spell. The trick is being RIGHT THERE when it happens --

yeah, right!

(mom to , age 7, dairy intolerant-related GERD -- currently has

polysaccharide antibody def, previously had transient IgG, IgA, t-cell & other

defs... and also to Kate, age 3!, more dairy intolerant but very healthy!)

May 12, 2006

How frightening! But am glad to hear he feels okay now. Does he normally have

any issues with low blood pressure? Could he be working on a virus that hasn't

presented itself yet? I don't have CVID (but neurologist told me I should be

tested with my history...) but whenever stressed, especially with illness, I

pass out easily (last week with a 24 hour bug for example). The neuro had an

explalnaton and I unfortunately cannot remember what he labeled it...but I will

try to ask him. Began happening for me around puberty (fainting easily). Just

some thoughts...How long after he passed out was it before they were able to

test his glucose?

My son did that once in jr high....never happened again...never new why...?

You and Conner are in my thoughts.

mom to amanda, 15, CVID, cdm, leg pain

<kristinsmith@...> wrote: Does anyone have any idea why a

kid would pass out and remain

unconcious for a few minutes? Conner passed out at school during

music class yesterday. He had been feeling a little nervous about

standing up in front of the class and when he stood up he fell

forward. They say he was out for at least three minutes and then

once he woke up still wasn't responsive for a couple more minutes.

They don't believe he had a seizure, he didn't seem sick and was

says he felt fine before this happened, his glucose was normal, BP

was only slightly low. We've never witnessed this with any of the

kids, I was mostly concerned by the amount of time he was out. I

thought if someone passed out with nerves they were coming out of it

in a matter of seconds. I wish the school would have called the

ambulance since he was out for that long, but they didn't. Our ped

wasn't very concerned and didn't even think it was important to see

him, but we pushed the issue. By the time we got him to the doctor

his BP was completely normal and he felt fine other than being very

tired - which isn't uncommon the week before IVIG. He does have a

history of partial seizures, but those are basically only " staring

spells " . The nurse said Conner was not shaking or even twitching

while he was unconcious. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mom to Conner (11, possible combined immune deficiency, mild CP,

partial seizures, asthma, GERD,

Hashimoto's disease and resolved adrenal insufficiency),

Hayden (11, unknown PID, PDD-NOS, IBS and moderate hearing

loss/aided),

Evan (11, unknown PID, asthma and mild hearing loss/unaided),

and Kelsey - (10, unknown PID, asthma)

Please visit us at www.caringbridge.org/in/connersmith

This forum is open to parents and caregivers of children diagnosed with a

Primary Immune Deficiency. Opinions or medical advice stated here are the sole

responsibility of the poster and should not be taken as professional advice.

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May 12, 2006

wrote:

> Does anyone have any idea why a kid would pass out and remain

> unconcious for a few minutes?

,

my husband has done that twice in the past few years. Both times they

rushed him to hospital thinking it was his heart -- both times it was

simply standing up too fast/low blood pressure or standing incorrectly

for too long (meaning locking the knees, probably). They ran every test

in the book on his heart - and both times it was nothing.

I would try to not worry unless it happens again. Knowing that he was

nervous about standing up -- and then standing up -- probably was

limiting his oxygen to the brain and caused him to pass out -- which is

just the body's way of getting the head low enough to get blood flow to

the brain. And yes, once he stayed out about 5 minutes, the other one

he came to after just a minute, but stayed groggy for about 10.

Don't you love these kids! They keep you on your knees!

In His service,

dale

May 12, 2006

My recommendation would be to have an EKG done on him. There are many arrythmia

disorders that can be picked up on by a simple EKG. It should be at least

looked into.

I am involved in a campaign for all schools and medical professionals to take

this type of problem seriously! My best friends family was dxd with a genetic

defect called " Brugada Syndrome " almost 2 years ago. We are passing out

informational literature to all our local schools to help with the 'fight' to

have this type of problme addressed in the correct manner.

I hope that you can convince someone to look into it further. A 12 lead EKG

takes 30 seconds and can give you peace of mind for some of the arrythmia

problems.

Here is some information on Syncope:

What is syncope?

Syncope (SIN'ko-pe) is temporary loss of consciousness and posture, described

as " fainting " or " passing out. " It's usually related to temporary insufficient

blood flow to the brain. It's a common problem, accounting for 3 percent of

emergency room visits and 6 percent of hospital admissions.

It most often occurs when the blood pressure is too low (hypotension) and the

heart doesn't pump a normal supply of oxygen to the brain.

What causes syncope?

It may be caused by emotional stress, pain, pooling of blood in the legs due

to sudden changes in body position, overheating, dehydration, heavy sweating or

exhaustion. Syncope may occur during violent coughing spells (especially in men)

because of rapid changes in blood pressure. It also may result from several

heart, neurologic, psychiatric, metabolic and lung disorders. And it may be a

side effect of some medicines.

Some forms of syncope suggest a serious disorder:

those occurring with exercise

those associated with palpitations or irregularities of the heart

those associated with family history of recurrent syncope or sudden death

What is neurally mediated syncope?

Neurally mediated syncope (NMS) is called also neurocardiogenic, vasovagal,

vasodepressor or reflex mediated syncope. It's a benign (and the most frequent)

cause of fainting. However, life-threatening conditions may also manifest as

syncope. NMS is more common in children and young adults, although it can occur

at any age. NMS happens because blood pressure drops, reducing circulation to

the brain and causing loss of consciousness. Typical NMS occurs while standing

and is often preceded by a sensation of warmth, nausea, lightheadedness and

visual " grayout. " If the syncope is prolonged, it can trigger a seizure. Placing

the person in a reclining position will restore blood flow and consciousness and

end the seizure.

AHA Recommendation

The majority of children and young adults with syncope have no structural

heart disease or significant arrhythmia (ah-RITH'me-ah) (abnormal heart rhythm).

So, extensive medical work-up is rarely needed. A careful physical examination

by a physician, including blood pressure and heart rate measured lying and

standing, is generally the only evaluation required.

In other cases an electrocardiogram (EKG or ECG) is used to test for abnormal

heart rhythms such as long Q-T syndrome. This is a genetic heart condition that

can cause sudden cardiac death. Other tests, such as exercise stress test,

Holter monitor, echocardiogram, etc. may be needed to rule out other cardiac

causes of syncope.

If EKG and cardiac tests are normal, the person will undergo a tilt test. The

blood pressure and heart rate will be measured while lying down on a board and

after the board is tilted up. Someone who has NMS will usually faint during the

tilt, due to the rapid drop in blood pressure and heart rate. As soon as the

person is placed on his or her back again, blood flow and consciousness are

restored.

To help prevent syncope, people with NMS should be on a high-salt diet and

drink plenty of fluids to avoid dehydration and maintain blood volume. They

should watch for the warning signs of fainting -- dizziness, nausea and sweaty

palms -- and sit or lie down if they feel the warning signs. Some people also

may need medication.

<kristinsmith@...> wrote:

Does anyone have any idea why a kid would pass out and remain