Re: Not a Hippie

[Guest guest]

Kudzo is good for alcoholism--if they would just get the ball rolling

on it. Of course, the drug companies would hurry and make a chemical

version of whatever it is in kudzo that helps with alcoholism and

people would take that instead of the kudzo and it would still be

everywhere! Sometimes I see Asian people gathering it, and at least I

know that if I'm ever in a situation where I can't get food I always

have the Kudzo greens.

>

> Re:

>

>

> > I think clearing kudzo wouldn't be random, it would take a huge

> > determined, definite, methodical, systematic, ordered, particular

> > effort! LOL!

>

> Did you know that, in some Asian countries, people consider kudzu a

> valuable natural resource? In Japan (where kudzu originated), people

> eat it in salads, make flour and fiber out of it, cook it in soup

and

> as a vegetable, and do other things that I have forgotten.

> So if we want to control kudzu (as the Japanese have done for

> centuries), we don't need to clear it away ... we just need to learn

> how to use it!

>

> Or if we didn't want to use our kudzu (if most Americans just

couldn't

> learn to like the taste, or something), we could just export it to

> Asian countries that *do* like it and use it ... (not to Japan: they

> have various trade embargoes on crops and livestock from the USA -

but

> to other countries that would buy our kudzu if we had the wit to

sell

> it to them).

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

I agree. They could not help having been sent there and just did their job. Demonstrations should have been directed at those responsible.

Inger

Re: Re: Not a Hippie

Other then that I am sort of "upset" at the hippies for there greeting to those that came from vietnam.

[Guest guest]

They were a mob of ignorant people who felt good about " movements. "

For them, the protests were not real protests, just a social

experience.

I'd bet you that, even though these protesters still disagree with

the Vietnam War, these same people grew up to appreciate vets and

realize how much they sacrificed on behalf of their country.

Tom

Administrator

I agree. They could not help having been sent there and just did

their job. Demonstrations should have been directed at those

responsible.

Inger

Re: Re: Not a Hippie

Other then that I am sort of " upset " at the hippies for there

greeting to those that came from vietnam.

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I mean KUDZU, not kudzo.

> >

> > Re:

> >

> >

> > > I think clearing kudzo wouldn't be random, it would take a huge

> > > determined, definite, methodical, systematic, ordered,

particular

> > > effort! LOL!

> >

> > Did you know that, in some Asian countries, people consider kudzu

a

> > valuable natural resource? In Japan (where kudzu originated),

people

> > eat it in salads, make flour and fiber out of it, cook it in soup

> and

> > as a vegetable, and do other things that I have forgotten.

> > So if we want to control kudzu (as the Japanese have done

for

> > centuries), we don't need to clear it away ... we just need to

learn

> > how to use it!

> >

> > Or if we didn't want to use our kudzu (if most Americans just

> couldn't

> > learn to like the taste, or something), we could just export it to

> > Asian countries that *do* like it and use it ... (not to Japan:

they

> > have various trade embargoes on crops and livestock from the USA -

> but

> > to other countries that would buy our kudzu if we had the wit to

> sell

> > it to them).

> >

> >

> > Yours for better letters,

> > Kate Gladstone

> > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> > handwritingrepair@

> > http://learn.to/handwrite,

> http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> > 325 South Manning Boulevard

> > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> > telephone 518/482-6763

> > AND REMEMBER ...

> > you can order books through my site!

> > (Amazon.com link -

> > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think I would strive to understand and to learn. Like are the

people happy? Why do they think free speech is bad? I'd listen to the

views - open discussion; although I suspect it would likely end up in

heated debate/argueing :-( (not me personally :-) )

>

> ...so therefore we kill them???

>

> Inger

>

>

> Re: Re: Not a Hippie

>

>

> China is not free speech...

>

[Guest guest]

I didn't know you were THAT telepathic, Tom, that you can know for certain

exactly what they felt. Or are you personally acquainted with them?

My guess would be that they really did feel as strongly about the war as you

do for example about animals and the environment, but just directed their

protests at the wrong people.

But neither of us can KNOW, only speculate. Right?

Inger

Re: Re: Not a Hippie

Other then that I am sort of " upset " at the hippies for there

greeting to those that came from vietnam.

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the

folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

[Guest guest]

What's the difference?

Inger

Re: Not a Hippie

Sorry, I mean KUDZU, not kudzo.

> >

> > Re:

> >

> >

> > > I think clearing kudzo wouldn't be random, it would take a huge

> > > determined, definite, methodical, systematic, ordered,

particular

> > > effort! LOL!

> >

> > Did you know that, in some Asian countries, people consider kudzu

a

> > valuable natural resource? In Japan (where kudzu originated),

people

> > eat it in salads, make flour and fiber out of it, cook it in soup

> and

> > as a vegetable, and do other things that I have forgotten.

> > So if we want to control kudzu (as the Japanese have done

for

> > centuries), we don't need to clear it away ... we just need to

learn

> > how to use it!

> >

> > Or if we didn't want to use our kudzu (if most Americans just

> couldn't

> > learn to like the taste, or something), we could just export it to

> > Asian countries that *do* like it and use it ... (not to Japan:

they

> > have various trade embargoes on crops and livestock from the USA -

> but

> > to other countries that would buy our kudzu if we had the wit to

> sell

> > it to them).

> >

> >

> > Yours for better letters,

> > Kate Gladstone

> > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> > handwritingrepair@

> > http://learn.to/handwrite,

> http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> > 325 South Manning Boulevard

> > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> > telephone 518/482-6763

> > AND REMEMBER ...

> > you can order books through my site!

> > (Amazon.com link -

> > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

> >

>

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the

folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

[Guest guest]

For me, personally, I believe murder is wrong and would include

killing in war in this--that is, I wouldn't go to war and kill

someone. I respect my country and pay taxes and follow the laws and

respect the officials and understand that there is sometimes an

element of self-defense involved but for me there is a greater law

that I am obligated to follow--that of not killing. I would be

willing to go to jail or whatever for my belief. As one example of

why I believe this way I cite the story of when Jesus told , who

had taken out his sword and cut off the ear of the soldier when they

were taking Jesus away: " Return your sword to it's place, for all

those who take the sword will perish by the sword. " -Mt 26:52, as well

as Ps 46:9 about God making wars to cease, and Is. 2:2-4 about

beating swords into plowshares and learning war no more, and loving

your neighbor/fellow man which you can't do if you kill them.

In , " greebohere "

<julie.stevenson16@...> wrote:

>

> I think I would strive to understand and to learn. Like are the

> people happy? Why do they think free speech is bad? I'd listen to

the

> views - open discussion; although I suspect it would likely end up

in

> heated debate/argueing :-( (not me personally :-) )

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > ...so therefore we kill them???

> >

> > Inger

> >

> >

> > Re: Re: Not a Hippie

> >

> >

> > China is not free speech...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The fact that kudzu is something, and kudzo isn't. LOL! I looked up

kudzo in the dictionary and it's not there and googled kudzo and

got 'did you mean kudzu?' Yes!

> > >

> > > Re:

> > >

> > >

> > > > I think clearing kudzo wouldn't be random, it would take a

huge

> > > > determined, definite, methodical, systematic, ordered,

> particular

> > > > effort! LOL!

> > >

> > > Did you know that, in some Asian countries, people consider

kudzu

> a

> > > valuable natural resource? In Japan (where kudzu originated),

> people

> > > eat it in salads, make flour and fiber out of it, cook it in

soup

> > and

> > > as a vegetable, and do other things that I have forgotten.

> > > So if we want to control kudzu (as the Japanese have done

> for

> > > centuries), we don't need to clear it away ... we just need to

> learn

> > > how to use it!

> > >

> > > Or if we didn't want to use our kudzu (if most Americans just

> > couldn't

> > > learn to like the taste, or something), we could just export it

to

> > > Asian countries that *do* like it and use it ... (not to Japan:

> they

> > > have various trade embargoes on crops and livestock from the

USA -

>

> > but

> > > to other countries that would buy our kudzu if we had the wit to

> > sell

> > > it to them).

> > >

> > >

> > > Yours for better letters,

> > > Kate Gladstone

> > > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> > > handwritingrepair@

> > > http://learn.to/handwrite,

> > http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> > > 325 South Manning Boulevard

> > > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> > > telephone 518/482-6763

> > > AND REMEMBER ...

> > > you can order books through my site!

> > > (Amazon.com link -

> > > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and

> acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the

> folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

[Guest guest]

What I know about Vietnam war protesters I have learned from people

who have served there, some of whom have served willingly, others

who were drafted against their will, and all of whom were protested

against.

What they told me was that these protesters, if they were protesting

the people who fought the war willingly rather than making a blanket

protest against everyone, would have been more easily received.

Instead the protestors slammed everyone, including those who were

too loyal to their country to burn their draft cards of go absent

without leave.

The protestors, in otherwords, were prejudicial in thinking everyone

who fought the war believed in what they were doing. They were

prejudicial in thinking that everyone could burn their draft cards

or go AWOL so easily.

It strikes me that protestors that would behave in such a fashion

were an unsympathetic mob intent on promoting their own ideas,

insulting anyone who didn't believe as they do, and generally

raising a stink without recognizing that their right to behave so

rudely was being preserved by the people they were protesting

against.

I also know that in subsequent years, family members of my neighbor

who protested about his own involvement in the war apologized to him

and stated that they should have protested against the government,

not him.

So I am not telepathic, and the idea that you would accuse me of

speculation is insulting.

Tom

Administrator

I agree. They could not help having been sent there and just did

their job. Demonstrations should have been directed at those

responsible.

Inger

Re: Re: Not a Hippie

Other then that I am sort of " upset " at the hippies for there

greeting to those that came from vietnam.

[Guest guest]

I've heard this too--that some protestors (not all of course) were

opportunists and using the situation for their own ends--to foment

anarchy and anti-goverment statements, kind of like terrorism.

> I agree. They could not help having been sent there and just did

> their job. Demonstrations should have been directed at those

> responsible.

>

> Inger

>

>

> Re: Re: Not a Hippie

>

>

> Other then that I am sort of " upset " at the hippies for there

> greeting to those that came from vietnam.

>

[Guest guest]

" We focus on China right now, because China is admittedly setting

itself up as our rival. As such, China could threaten our interests

and allies in Asia.

There are advantages and disadvantages for both sides in such a war,

but that will become clearer in the last two bits of that article.

>

> Unfortunately, nations usually compete with each other rather than

> cooperate, and when they do cooperate, it is usually for short term

reasons (like WWII) and soon they fall to competing again. China may

become an ally one of these days, but for now their government and

goals are not compatible with ours or their neighbors. "

Well thinking about this; businesses/companies have rivals, they

compete - they even go to war of sorts (price wars etc) , but

generally do not kill one another literally.

>

>

> In a message dated 3/8/2006 3:20:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> julie.stevenson16@... writes:

>

> Now this is where I get confused - to me killing is killing, plain

> and simple - people just chose to justify it within war and self

> defence - the lines become blurred. It is saying - it's wrong to

> kill, but if you are at war then hey fine and also if someone

punches

> you, you can kill them?

>

> I would kill in self defence, but only if I had to - as for war -

war

> appals me.

>

> I forgot earlier to comment on an article you posted about the

> possibility of war with China - so I'll comment now :-) Why do

people

> focus on the idea of war with China? What about making China

allies

> and working together - is that not a possibility?

>

>

>

>

>

> If someone punches you, you can punch back. Killing someone for

hitting you,

> unless their intent is to beat you to death, is both unethical and

against

> the law, though the law may be lenient in some cases, such as if

someone breaks

> into the house of an elderly person and is beating them senseless

and the

> elderly person kills them. But then again, the law does take a more

lenient

> stance in general on harm visited upon home invaders.

>

> Its good that war is appalling to you. It should be. However, war,

like

> self-defense, sometimes necessary. Hitler's wars of conquest were

not

> justifiable, but the war to stop him was.

>

> We focus on China right now, because China is admittedly setting

itself up

> as our rival. As such, China could threaten our interests and

allies in Asia.

> There are advantages and disadvantages for both sides in such a

war, but that

> will become clearer in the last two bits of that article.

>

> Unfortunately, nations usually compete with each other rather than

> cooperate, and when they do cooperate, it is usually for short term

reasons (like

> WWII) and soon they fall to competing again. China may become an

ally one of

> these days, but for now their government and goals are not

compatible with ours

> or their neighbors.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My grandad served in WWII and he was a pacifist, but also

believed in defending his country. He was something like a signals

controller(?) and he was in danger as he was quite close to the

fighting, but he didn't believe in killing others; like I said he was

a pacifist, yet he also believed it his duty to protect his country.

He did not talk often about the war - I do believe it was a very sad

time - I know he had medals, because I found them fascinating - I

unfortunately do not know what his medals were for and it is

doubtfull they are still in the family as nearing my grandads death

someone stole from him.

>

> What I know about Vietnam war protesters I have learned from people

> who have served there, some of whom have served willingly, others

> who were drafted against their will, and all of whom were protested

> against.

>

> What they told me was that these protesters, if they were

protesting

> the people who fought the war willingly rather than making a

blanket

> protest against everyone, would have been more easily received.

> Instead the protestors slammed everyone, including those who were

> too loyal to their country to burn their draft cards of go absent

> without leave.

>

> The protestors, in otherwords, were prejudicial in thinking

everyone

> who fought the war believed in what they were doing. They were

> prejudicial in thinking that everyone could burn their draft cards

> or go AWOL so easily.

>

> It strikes me that protestors that would behave in such a fashion

> were an unsympathetic mob intent on promoting their own ideas,

> insulting anyone who didn't believe as they do, and generally

> raising a stink without recognizing that their right to behave so

> rudely was being preserved by the people they were protesting

> against.

>

> I also know that in subsequent years, family members of my neighbor

> who protested about his own involvement in the war apologized to

him

> and stated that they should have protested against the government,

> not him.

>

> So I am not telepathic, and the idea that you would accuse me of

> speculation is insulting.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

[Guest guest]

Tom wrote:

> What I know about Vietnam war protesters I have learned from people

who have served there, some of whom have served willingly, others

who were drafted against their will, and all of whom were protested

against.

Well, that's good; then you have at least some first hand information. Which

is what I was wondering.

> What they told me was that these protesters, if they were protesting

the people who fought the war willingly rather than making a blanket

protest against everyone, would have been more easily received.

Instead the protestors slammed everyone, including those who were

too loyal to their country to burn their draft cards of go absent

without leave.

> The protestors, in otherwords, were prejudicial in thinking everyone

who fought the war believed in what they were doing. They were

prejudicial in thinking that everyone could burn their draft cards

or go AWOL so easily.

That's pretty much what I though too. Which is why I wrote that I thought

they should have protested at those who sent them in the first place.

> It strikes me that protestors that would behave in such a fashion

were an unsympathetic mob intent on promoting their own ideas,

insulting anyone who didn't believe as they do, and generally

raising a stink without recognizing that their right to behave so

rudely was being preserved by the people they were protesting

against.

Such is often the mentality of a mob, once someone has put them up to

something. That's why I've never been part of a public protest, other than

online, despite feeling strongly about many issues.

> I also know that in subsequent years, family members of my neighbor

who protested about his own involvement in the war apologized to him

and stated that they should have protested against the government,

not him.

Good.

> So I am not telepathic, and the idea that you would accuse me of

speculation is insulting.

I didn't mean to insult, but you did write:

" They were a mob of ignorant people who felt good about " movements. " "

I'm still wondering how you know how they FELT? I would not have protested

if you had simply said that it was an mob of *seemingly* ignorant people,

period.

" For them, the protests were not real protests, just a social experience. "

I'm wondering how you know that too, to be able to state it as a fact,

unless ARE able to somehow percieve how they experience things. Sorry to be

nitpicking here, but my Aspie logic finds it hard to just ignore

formulations like that, at least from someone I with your linguistic skill

and precision.

I'll leave it alone now, though, since we seem to more or less agree on the

basic issue; that here, as so many other times in history, the little guy

just doing his job gets the brunt for what the big fish order them do, while

the sharks can keep playing their power games unperturbed, using people like

chess pawns as they please.

Inger

[Guest guest]

:

> I've heard this too--that some protestors (not all of course) were

opportunists and using the situation for their own ends--to foment

anarchy and anti-goverment statements, kind of like terrorism.

That's unfortunately not too uncommon with any protest group. Either someone

starts or supports a movement for their own agenda (e.g. anti-nuclear

campaigns secretly funded/guided by the oil industry) or they hijack it

along the way, or they disrupt legitimate and peaceful demonstrations to

give the majority of peaceful demonstrators a bad name.

This happened here at the WTO-meeting in Gothemburg, where masked

trouble-makers came here from other parts of Europe to deliberately make it

violent, which the original organizers had in no way intended. It would not

surprise me one bit if some of those were planted by the very powers they

were pretending to protest against, so as to give an excuse for police to

attack back and beat up/lock up serious, peaceful demonstrators and

trouble-making riff-raff indiscriminately.

Or else they might be misguided youth with too much adrenalin and not enough

excitement in their lives. Very annoying, either way. Especially since that

gives an image of ALL demonstrators being like that - which is not the case

at all - and invariably achieves the goal of moving the focus from the issue

being protested against, onto the rioting and who did what.

Inger

[Guest guest]

That is really bad taste, and very uncompassionate!

I agree that it does give a bad name to the peace movement. :-(

Inger

Re: Re: Not a Hippie

In a message dated 3/8/2006 1:32:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

It strikes me that protestors that would behave in such a fashion were an unsympathetic mob intent on promoting their own ideas, insulting anyone who didn't believe as they do, and generally raising a stink without recognizing that their right to behave so rudely was being preserved by the people they were protesting against.

Just like today protesters are showing up at funerals of service men and women who have died in the line of duty. This strikes me as completely crass and undignified and will certainly reflect very negatively on the peace movement they claim to be representing.

[Guest guest]

" I'm still wondering how you know how they FELT? I would not have

protested if you had simply said that it was an mob of *seemingly*

ignorant people, period. "

Well, they admitted it. That is how I know.

At least they were finally good enough to do that. Now we know that

cowardice isn't only going into battle because you are afraid to go

Absent Without Leave. Now we know that cowardice is also going AWOL

and going to jail because you are too afraid to figure out your own

identity and whether or not you really believe that the war you are

protesting is wrong.

You'd think they'd value human life rnough that they would keep their

heads screwed on straight.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Not in this particular instance though. In this instance you had a

bunch of people who didn't know what they believed harrassing

veterans and underminding the ability of the United Dates Government

to win the war by turning the people against it.

Thus here you had the little fish manipulating the sharks as they

pleased.

I saw the same thing during Gulf War I.

It sickened me in college to see protesters walking down the street

protesting the war, and then get in their big-ass SUVS and drive to

the campus common, burn a tire, start smoking grass, and sing " Give

peace a chance. "

I notice the pot smoking lasted about five hours whereas the actual

march took half an hour.

I wondered if spectators who just happened on the scene would wonder

what these people were protesting. The war, or anti-pot laws.

Good thing the cops broke it up. The whole thing was an embarrassment

to the school.

Particularly the march portion of the protest where the ROTC, Army,

Navy, and Air Force Reserve personnel were held back by police in a

confined area outside the parade route so they couldn'ty interfere

with the protestors or make their own voices heard.

One of those guys that were cordoned off and made to shut up got

shipped off to the war and got killed.

I only hope the assholes that protested because it was " cool " to

protest enjoyed their five hours of getting high. It's people like

the Army guy who got killed that died for the right for those

potheads to snub their noses at American US Service Personnel.

I can agree with people who fight for peace. But war protestors like

those I have described above make me sick.

Tom

Administrator

I'll leave it alone now, though, since we seem to more or less agree

on the basic issue; that here, as so many other times in history, the

little guy just doing his job gets the brunt for what the big fish

order them do, while the sharks can keep playing their power games

unperturbed, using people like chess pawns as they please.

Inger

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure, , but I'm with Tom on this one: people who refuse

to do anything in regards to using their rights other than to use them

blindly deserve to be left to their own devices: they deserve no

defense by the efforts and lives of others. If they willingly

participate in something they don't believe in, they're hypocrites of

the worst kind: they don't even fight for what they believe in. As

the old saying goes: if you stand for nothing, you'll fall for

anything. I say, let them fall, but let them go and do so quietly,

without disturbing others along the way.

>

> I may not like what you have to say, but I would fight to the death

for your right to say it.

>

> Who said something like that in history?

>

>

> " To be blunt: I would rather commit suicide then defend such people. I

> am not going to fight for a bunch of stoners and loshers who have no

> known direction and no known purpose, even unto themselves except to

> protest those who would defend their better interests. "

>

>

>

> I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.

> Please go back to Mars or Venus

> http://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

>

[Guest guest]

" Just like on was disappointed to find out that free

love at Haight and Asbury in San Francisco was really just a bunch of

stoners getting high and sleeping around with each other just to have

sex,... "

I met a person who seemed on the surface to be nice, believing in

love for all and love being healing - this I could agree with; then

to my shock I found out what they meant by love, they equated sex =

love, their idea of healing a person was to have sex with them.

This particular person was trying to set up as a healer; it worries

me greatly that innocent and vulnerable people will have no idea as

to his ideas on healing as he isn't exactly clear or forth coming

about them.

As for RL protests - I know personally I could not get involved. For

one I can't stand crowds and I can clearly see mob mentality and it

scares me. If I hear of a protest, even if it is supposedly peaceful -

I generally get away from that area as quickly as possible as there

is often trouble.

I do have beliefs and I would stand up for people - even protest, but

my form of protesting would be likely by letter and other like

communications - not mob protests - however peacefull they set out to

be it often goes wrong. I cannot understand either those who shout

peace and then use non peaceful ways.

>

> " I'm still wondering how you know how they FELT? I would not have

> protested if you had simply said that it was an mob of *seemingly*

> ignorant people, period. "

>

> Well, they admitted it. That is how I know.

>

> At least they were finally good enough to do that. Now we know that

> cowardice isn't only going into battle because you are afraid to go

> Absent Without Leave. Now we know that cowardice is also going AWOL

> and going to jail because you are too afraid to figure out your own

> identity and whether or not you really believe that the war you are

> protesting is wrong.

>

> You'd think they'd value human life rnough that they would keep

their

> heads screwed on straight.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

I can see a great deal of lack of respect and consideration from the

people you are describing and it does indeed sound sickening.

I've made it clear about not liking war, but I would still defend my

country and I would get involved in war efforts if it was protecting

others - it too annoys me and frustrates me that others (like you

have described) have no concept that their freedoms have been fought

for, and they most likely do not care either :-(

I am thankful to those who fought for my independence - I do believe

in remembering wars - not to glorify it - people who were involved in

wars know that there is no glory. To me remembering it reminds people

(unfortunately not everyone) what was fought for, what we have, what

we could have lost and also to remember that war is not a good thing

for anyone - I only wish humans would learn that :-( How quickly some

people forget.

>

> I'll leave it alone now, though, since we seem to more or less

agree

> on the basic issue; that here, as so many other times in history,

the

> little guy just doing his job gets the brunt for what the big fish

> order them do, while the sharks can keep playing their power games

> unperturbed, using people like chess pawns as they please.

>

> Inger

>

[Guest guest]

Tom:

>>> " For them, the protests were not real protests, just a social

experience. "

Inger:

>> " I'm wondering how you know that too, to be able to state it as a

fact,unless ARE able to somehow percieve how they experience things.

Sorry to be nitpicking here, but my Aspie logic finds it hard to just

ignore formulations like that, at least from someone I with your

linguistic skill and precision. "

Tom:

> Because I saw a documentary about the various social movements and

how people tend to follow any pied piper provided these pied pipers

toot their horns loud enough.

! Why didn't you SAY so, then?

> Just like on was disappointed to find out that free love

at Haight and Asbury in San Francisco was really just a bunch of

stoners getting high and sleeping around with each other just to have

sex, I expressed similar disappointment when war protesters admitted

following other war protesters who they thought were leading them,

and the leaders admitting following still others who they thought

were leading them, and nobody knowing who was leading who, and for

what reason.

I don't recally you expressing any disappointment at all, only an

unequivocal statement on how those other people were feeling and

experiencing things. It would really have helped me understand that you were

trying to express dissapointment if you had written how YOU felt instead of

how THEY felt. ;-)

> To think that I had to sign up for the Selective Service System and

be avialable for any wars that might come up to defend people like

these idiots is appalling.

So, you are appalled? OK. (I WAS agreeing with you that I think the protests

were misdirected and rude.)

> To be blunt: I would rather commit suicide then defend such people.

I am not going to fight for a bunch of stoners and losers who have no

known direction and no known purpose, even unto themselves except to

protest those who would defend their better interests.

As I think got sorted out on another thread, the U.S. has not been invaded

in the last 500 years - apart from one little spat with the Japanese during

WWII - so unless someone decides to invade you anytime soon, I doubt you

personally will have to defend anyone at all.

> It would be nice to know that we didn't have huge crowds protesting

things just for the sake of protesting them. Many of those protesters

weren't free thinkers at all because they were hypnotized by the mob,

Sure, we've already sorted that out too.

> ...and it hurts me dearly to know that most of those people bashed Viet

Nam war veterans (who fought, got maimed, and died for them)

For them? I have every respect for veterans and don't think it is at all

fair to blaim any war on the soldiers, but that war was offensive, not

defensive, unless I'm very misinformed?

> just because it was a " cool " thing to do and not because they actually

> believed that the war was wrong.

But here you go again, assuming to KNOW which it happened to be in this

particular case. As always, I'm sure the truth lies in somewhere inbetween.

The most likely thing statistically is that SOME of them really belived the

war was wrong and wanted to demonstrate anywhere they could, while others

MIGHT have thought it was a cool thing to do. But again, none of us can know

for sure, regardless of documentaries on the psychology of prostesters.

Inger:

>> I didn't mean to insult, but you did write:

" They were a mob of ignorant people who felt good about " movements. " "

Tom:

> And I was right. Most of them were.

If you still insist on that wording, fine.

Inger:

>> " I'm still wondering how you know how they FELT? I would not have

protested if you had simply said that it was an mob of *seemingly*

ignorant people, period. "

Tom:

> Well, they admitted it. That is how I know.

All of them?

> At least they were finally good enough to do that. Now we know that

cowardice isn't only going into battle because you are afraid to go

Absent Without Leave. Now we know that cowardice is also going AWOL

and going to jail because you are too afraid to figure out your own

identity and whether or not you really believe that the war you are

protesting is wrong.

I'm afraid I don't understand this sentence.

> You'd think they'd value human life enough that they would keep their

heads screwed on straight.

Just as you value the life of all the civilian victims of U.S.

intervention/aggression all over the world...?

Inger

[Guest guest]

I don't know whether this is true or not, but one of my high school

history teachers said there was a minor terrorist attacks in The

former USSR and when the men who did it were caught, they were

castrated by the KGB and returned to their families with their

genitals crammed down their throats.

Tom

Administrator

The KGB took a few hostages from the right people's families and

delivered to those right people certain parts of the hostages

anatomies. Very soon after the Russian hostages were released and none

we ever taken again.

[Guest guest]

I agree with what you are saying . Thanks for posting your

opinion.

Tom

Administrator

I think there needs to be a general maturity development within

society that understands that there are differences in general but

unity should be found by the premises in which we all can oblige, in

essential respects and dignities. Sort as if minds are more

understanding of one another, less tempormental and certainly straight

forward but not subsiding to irrational disputes sociopolically.

Psychological understanding one another by increasing the prevalence's

of rational teachings such as psychological concepts starting early on

in public education would be good.

[Guest guest]

Another zinger from Rainbow!

>

> > Inger: " Maybe it's one of those zen things... :-) "

>

> Or, one of those zin things, should someone wine about it!

>

> Rainbow

>