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Re: Dear God, Deliver Us from Their Insanity!

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Re:

> Judaism did not require human sacrifices. Quite the opposite, it found such

to >be abhorrent. I need to brush up on names, but one of the Patriarchs

[Abraham] >was told to sacrifice his son as a test of his faith, but God stopped

him at the last >moment. The intent there was never to allow the sacrifice to

take place, but just >to test the faith.

But what about Judges 11:21-40 (in the Old Testament - and therefore

in Judaism - about 1000-1500 years after Abraham)?

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

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Re:

> Judaism did not require human sacrifices. Quite the opposite, it found such

to >be abhorrent. I need to brush up on names, but one of the Patriarchs

[Abraham] >was told to sacrifice his son as a test of his faith, but God stopped

him at the last >moment. The intent there was never to allow the sacrifice to

take place, but just >to test the faith.

But what about Judges 11:21-40 (in the Old Testament - and therefore

in Judaism - about 1000-1500 years after Abraham)?

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

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" Christ also said that he did not come to replace the existing law,

but to add to it. The earlier Biblical Law lacked forgiveness, which

is what Christ delivered. "

Maybe I am misunderstanding this - but surely he must have replaced

some of it? We no longer do 'eye for eye' or animal sacrifice - there

isn't all the laws about eating certain things and not others is

there? I think I recall Jesus saying all food was good, something

about blessing it too?

>

>

> In a message dated 3/4/2006 2:52:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> inglori@... writes:

>

>

> Not every religion, no. But didn't Jesus specifically talk about

love and

> compassion, about turning the other cheek and of not judging?

>

>

>

> Yes he did. However, there is a bit of misunderstanding here. We

all judge

> all the time and Christians are expected to do so as well.

Christians are

> expected to avoid things that the faith says are wrong and do the

things that are

> right. What Christ probably meant was not to judge people too

harshly for

> the trouble they have found themselves in since we don't know their

full

> circumstances. However, Christ also did say to help people, which

means judging if

> they are in trouble and how to help them.

>

> Christ also said that he did not come to replace the existing law,

but to

> add to it. The earlier Biblical Law lacked forgiveness, which is

what Christ

> delivered.

>

> Tom could probably provide the right quotes, if he has the time.

>

>

>

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" Christ also said that he did not come to replace the existing law,

but to add to it. The earlier Biblical Law lacked forgiveness, which

is what Christ delivered. "

Maybe I am misunderstanding this - but surely he must have replaced

some of it? We no longer do 'eye for eye' or animal sacrifice - there

isn't all the laws about eating certain things and not others is

there? I think I recall Jesus saying all food was good, something

about blessing it too?

>

>

> In a message dated 3/4/2006 2:52:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> inglori@... writes:

>

>

> Not every religion, no. But didn't Jesus specifically talk about

love and

> compassion, about turning the other cheek and of not judging?

>

>

>

> Yes he did. However, there is a bit of misunderstanding here. We

all judge

> all the time and Christians are expected to do so as well.

Christians are

> expected to avoid things that the faith says are wrong and do the

things that are

> right. What Christ probably meant was not to judge people too

harshly for

> the trouble they have found themselves in since we don't know their

full

> circumstances. However, Christ also did say to help people, which

means judging if

> they are in trouble and how to help them.

>

> Christ also said that he did not come to replace the existing law,

but to

> add to it. The earlier Biblical Law lacked forgiveness, which is

what Christ

> delivered.

>

> Tom could probably provide the right quotes, if he has the time.

>

>

>

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" I need to brush up on names, but one of the Patriarchs was told to

sacrifice his son as a test of his faith, but God stopped him at the

last moment. "

I believe that was Issac? I have quite a bit of problems with that

particular story - I certainly don't think I would be prepared to

sacrifice my son - which just makes me think I am very likely weak in

faith :-(

>

>

> In a message dated 3/4/2006 8:56:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> julie.stevenson16@... writes:

>

> Wait a mo' - the old testament God of Christianity did also

require

> human sacrifice? All that kind of sacrifice was done away with

when

> Jesus was crucified - or that is how I understood it anyway?

>

>

>

> Judaism did not require human sacrifices. Quite the opposite, it

found such

> to be abhorrent. I need to brush up on names, but one of the

Patriarchs was

> told to sacrifice his son as a test of his faith, but God stopped

him at the

> last moment. The intent there was never to allow the sacrifice to

take place,

> but just to test the faith.

>

> Christ was a bit different. He was God made flesh so that was God

> symbolically sacrificing himself for the salvation of Man.

>

> Other groups around the Israelites did practice human sacrifice,

like the

> Philistines and others who worshipped Molach and Bhaal. The

Israelites were

> strongly advised not to have anything to do with those people,

especially not to

> intermarry with them or take up worship of their gods.

>

>

>

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" GreeboHere " writes:

> The earlier Biblical Law lacked forgiveness,

No, it didn't (and doesn't).

The Hebrew Scriptures' abundant examples of forgiveness

commanded, requested, offered, and granted include (among others)

Genesis 50:17, Exodus 10:17, Exodus 32:32, Exodus 34:9, Numbers 14:19,

1 15:25, 1 25:28, 1 Kings 8 (everything from verse 30

on), 2 Chronicles 6:21, 31:34, 33:8, 36:3,

50:20, 9:19, Hosea 14:2.

I consider it not just ignorant, but offensively ignorant, to tell

folks that the law of my people (Jews) lacks forgiveness.

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

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" GreeboHere " writes:

> The earlier Biblical Law lacked forgiveness,

No, it didn't (and doesn't).

The Hebrew Scriptures' abundant examples of forgiveness

commanded, requested, offered, and granted include (among others)

Genesis 50:17, Exodus 10:17, Exodus 32:32, Exodus 34:9, Numbers 14:19,

1 15:25, 1 25:28, 1 Kings 8 (everything from verse 30

on), 2 Chronicles 6:21, 31:34, 33:8, 36:3,

50:20, 9:19, Hosea 14:2.

I consider it not just ignorant, but offensively ignorant, to tell

folks that the law of my people (Jews) lacks forgiveness.

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

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Mmmmm I kind of agree with what you are saying and I do believe that

Jesus was hardest on Christians - urging them not to sin and to

support one another?

I am aware Christians are meant to strive to lead a Christian life

and help one another - but I do not believe in condeming another.

Maybe from a Christian view point what a person does may be wrong -

but as you said - hate the sin and not the person.

I know personally if someone tries to convert me with hellfire and

scare tactics it will not work - I will walk away (or most likely

run) - as many others would too.

>

>

> In a message dated 3/4/2006 9:13:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> julie.stevenson16@... writes:

>

> Even I have a problem with that.

>

> I am Christian, but am not fond of some Christians using fear

tactics

> and condeming all to hell - there are nicer approaches.

>

> As for tolerance - I thought Jesus did teach tolerance - to my

belief

> yes he did get angry with some things - usually how his church was

> behaving and believers and yet he was very tolerant of sinners and

> other outcasts. Perhaps there is a lesson to be learnt here on

> tolerance and maybe a very applicable one at the moment?

>

>

>

>

>

> There is a fine line between fear tactics and addressing the matter

of sin.

> Just because Christ died on the Cross doesn't mean sin ceased to

exist. It

> does and the old standards, like the 10 Commandments, are still in

effect.

>

> Christ was tolerant of the outcasts and sinners because those were

the

> people who needed his message of salvation and redemption. He also

said to hate

> the sin but not the sinner, something I view as akin to hating

illness but not

> the person who is sick.

>

> Even that tolerance had its limits, however. To receive salvation

and

> forgiveness of sins, the confession and request for forgiveness

must be sincere. If

> one asks for forgiveness but has every intention of going out and

doing the

> same again and again, then such a request would be invalid.

>

> But the main problem is one of semantics. Most people these days

say

> Tolerance when what they really want is the Acceptance of their

Relativistic views,

> mostly of their own actions which they probably have doubts about.

Simply:

> Tolerance accepts some inappropriate behavior for the sake of the

common good

> while Relativism denies that good has any universal meaning and so

accepts all

> behavior.

>

> Christianity will tolerate some bad behavior is tolerating it gives

the

> chance to help the sinners abandon their sin. My preference is to

lead by example

> and debate rather than haranguing the person about hellfire and

damnation.

>

> However, relativistic acceptance of all behavior just doesn't cut

it.

> History shows that that just leads to chaos and the collapse of

civilizations. It

> is not the only cause of course, but rather is a major symptom of a

society

> that has turned its back on the foundations and traditions that

built it and no

> longer has the will to go on, which is why the people turn self-

centered,

> self-destructive hedonism.

>

>

>

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Re:

On 3/4/06, greebohere <julie.stevenson16@...> wrote:

> " I need to brush up on names, but one of the Patriarchs was told to

> sacrifice his son as a test of his faith, but God stopped him at the

> last moment. "

>

> I believe that was Issac?

God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac - then, at the last

moment, God sent an angel to stop the sacrifice and say that God had

commanded it only so that He could find out if Abraham actually did

fear Him: Genesis 22:12

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

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Re:

On 3/4/06, greebohere <julie.stevenson16@...> wrote:

> " I need to brush up on names, but one of the Patriarchs was told to

> sacrifice his son as a test of his faith, but God stopped him at the

> last moment. "

>

> I believe that was Issac?

God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac - then, at the last

moment, God sent an angel to stop the sacrifice and say that God had

commanded it only so that He could find out if Abraham actually did

fear Him: Genesis 22:12

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

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Wait a moment I never wrote 'The earlier Biblical Law lacked

forgiveness' Please go back and take another look - I think it may

have been ? - please do not call me ignorant either.

>

> " GreeboHere " writes:

>

> > The earlier Biblical Law lacked forgiveness,

>

> No, it didn't (and doesn't).

> The Hebrew Scriptures' abundant examples of forgiveness

> commanded, requested, offered, and granted include (among others)

> Genesis 50:17, Exodus 10:17, Exodus 32:32, Exodus 34:9, Numbers

14:19,

> 1 15:25, 1 25:28, 1 Kings 8 (everything from verse 30

> on), 2 Chronicles 6:21, 31:34, 33:8,

36:3,

> 50:20, 9:19, Hosea 14:2.

>

> I consider it not just ignorant, but offensively ignorant, to tell

> folks that the law of my people (Jews) lacks forgiveness.

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

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Forgive me, then, - indeed , not you, ignorantly wrote

that " 'The earlier Biblical Law lacked forgiveness. "

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

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Forgive me, then, - indeed , not you, ignorantly wrote

that " 'The earlier Biblical Law lacked forgiveness. "

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

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In a message dated 3/4/2006 5:04:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rainbow@... writes:

Prope r= Tolerance???

Proper = Proper.

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In a message dated 3/4/2006 5:04:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rainbow@... writes:

Prope r= Tolerance???

Proper = Proper.

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Try " idolatry " perhaps?

Raven

>

> Re:

>

> > Idolism ... idiol

>

> I can't find those in a dictionary, either. And 's descriptions

> did not really clarify what he meant here.

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That is a misunderstanding on your part. Animal sacrifice, most

defninitely. Human sacrifice? Sacreligious! The animal sacrifice

was symbolic to teach about the coming sacrifice that Jesus would

fulfill: the giving of the best of the flock without blemish, to give

mercy the chance of satisfying justice that eternal laws required.

The only one that could give mercy is the one that had no legal

blemishes that justice would require payment on.

Perhaps you're thinking of the one time where (before the 12 tribes) I

can't remember the exact names off the top of my head, but the father

was asked to sacrifice his son: it was a test of obedience, and only a

test, and it was stopped by angels before it could be committed (and

both he and his son were very thankful, too!).

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 3/3/2006 11:57:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> > nathaninfortuna@ writes:

> >

> > Very closed minded and highly illogical.

> >

> >

> >

> > Not so. Christianity is very logical orderly. It is also humble,

> though some

> > of the preachers are not. Christ admonished his followers to

> humility many

> > times.

> >

> > God the true god would want nothing other

> > then freedom of all things even of God.

> >

> > Now this statement doesn't make any sense. What is the freedom of

> God? Does

> > that mean God is whatever a person believes God to be? If that is

> so, then

> > such a system believes in no God. God is what God is, not what we

> want God to

> > be.

> >

> > Humans have created many gods. The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and

> other made

> > up their own gods. These were very human gods that were far from

> perfect or

> > even moral. Other cultures had gods that demanded human

> sacrifices. Other human

> > religions include Nazism and Communism, and we have ample evidence

> as to how

> > bloody they were.

> >

> > God is not of the mind but the creator of it. If God is nothing

> more than a

> > figment of the imagination, then why bother? If God is a of the

> mind, then

> > praying to God is praying to yourself, making a god of yourself.

> >

> > What better ways are there? Another world religion, one that also

> sets

> > itself apart from others and is intolerant to one degree or another?

> >

> >

> >

>

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That is a misunderstanding on your part. Animal sacrifice, most

defninitely. Human sacrifice? Sacreligious! The animal sacrifice

was symbolic to teach about the coming sacrifice that Jesus would

fulfill: the giving of the best of the flock without blemish, to give

mercy the chance of satisfying justice that eternal laws required.

The only one that could give mercy is the one that had no legal

blemishes that justice would require payment on.

Perhaps you're thinking of the one time where (before the 12 tribes) I

can't remember the exact names off the top of my head, but the father

was asked to sacrifice his son: it was a test of obedience, and only a

test, and it was stopped by angels before it could be committed (and

both he and his son were very thankful, too!).

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 3/3/2006 11:57:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> > nathaninfortuna@ writes:

> >

> > Very closed minded and highly illogical.

> >

> >

> >

> > Not so. Christianity is very logical orderly. It is also humble,

> though some

> > of the preachers are not. Christ admonished his followers to

> humility many

> > times.

> >

> > God the true god would want nothing other

> > then freedom of all things even of God.

> >

> > Now this statement doesn't make any sense. What is the freedom of

> God? Does

> > that mean God is whatever a person believes God to be? If that is

> so, then

> > such a system believes in no God. God is what God is, not what we

> want God to

> > be.

> >

> > Humans have created many gods. The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and

> other made

> > up their own gods. These were very human gods that were far from

> perfect or

> > even moral. Other cultures had gods that demanded human

> sacrifices. Other human

> > religions include Nazism and Communism, and we have ample evidence

> as to how

> > bloody they were.

> >

> > God is not of the mind but the creator of it. If God is nothing

> more than a

> > figment of the imagination, then why bother? If God is a of the

> mind, then

> > praying to God is praying to yourself, making a god of yourself.

> >

> > What better ways are there? Another world religion, one that also

> sets

> > itself apart from others and is intolerant to one degree or another?

> >

> >

> >

>

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>

> " Other cultures had gods that demanded human sacrifices. "

>

> Wait a mo' - the old testament God of Christianity did also require

> human sacrifice? All that kind of sacrifice was done away with when

> Jesus was crucified - or that is how I understood it anyway?

>

No, it was animal sacrifice the OT Jews believed in - exactly like the

pagan societies around them. But the legend of the command to Abraham

to sacrifice Isaac, then not to after all when he had shown his

willingness to obey, seems to be a purpose-written story for adjusting

converts' minds away from the idea of human sacrifice. Which was

practised by the pagans.

Of course, Proper Christianity,founded as an offshoot of Judaism, is

then sick compared to Judaism, with its mathematically incoherent idea

that Jesus was without sin therefore sacrificed himself as a

substitutionary third party to pay for the sins of the whole world.

How did that payment to God count, if (1) Jesus actually was God, or

1/3 of God (2) God magicked him back to life on the third day,

reversing the sacrifice ?

Moderate Christianity, Episcopal, forms a part of my social life, but

I count myself a Gnostic rather than a Christian, because of not

swallowing this sacrifice story.

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An interesting interpretation you have placed on that passage, but

most definitely *not* the same thing. Jephthah made a vow to destroy

all enemies that came forth in that context, and it happened that his

daughter had been consorting with the enemies, or was clearly one by

her actions. He was true to his word, even though it cost him dearly.

Moral of the story: be very careful what you make a vow to do!

>

> Re:

>

> > Judaism did not require human sacrifices. Quite the opposite, it

found such to >be abhorrent. I need to brush up on names, but one of

the Patriarchs [Abraham] >was told to sacrifice his son as a test of

his faith, but God stopped him at the last >moment. The intent there

was never to allow the sacrifice to take place, but just >to test the

faith.

>

> But what about Judges 11:21-40 (in the Old Testament - and therefore

> in Judaism - about 1000-1500 years after Abraham)?

>

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

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A little more context goes a long way to understanding the value and

assessment of Jesus's sacrifice: if you go along with the statement

that the godhead is a godhead of laws, and that Godhead must be just,

that to violate those laws would make the Godhead cease to qualify as

such. There's this weird common misunderstanding that God makes all

the laws: that is not true, for God must also follow laws, regardless

of personal desires. Did God create the laws of physics? It stands

to reason that no, they existed previously, and that God must live

within them, since for God to decide " I don't like this law, I'll just

rewrite it! " would create chaos, and it simply wouldn't work. It's

the laws of Man that are malleable, and no others: eternal laws are

binding and unchangeable, regardless of eternal qualifications.

Now, how did God come about to exist? There are answers to that, too,

but eventually, you end up with the question of " When did time/space

start? " and everything, and the nature of eternity, and of existence

itself. After all, it defies all reason and logic that the universe

was created from nothing (ie. no matter or energy), (which, by the

way, " create " comes from " to organize " ) and yet, it defies easy

explanation that it has always existed, but the paradox is that the

only logical thing that could be is that of the paradox of the

universe always existing in some form forever back in time, eternally,

because of (once again, an immutable eternal law) that energy and

matter can be neiter created nor destroyed, but merely transformed

from one into the other. Thus, if we are to understand " The Big Bang "

theory to be representative of the explanation for how the universe

was formed (aka created, but not from " nothing " but from existing

energy/matter) then it seems that existence on an eternal scale is

much like a very huge and slow heartbeat with a heart of infinite

size; after all, once you come to the conclusion that there's no such

thing as space without matter (true " nothing " ) then there's no other

logical explanation than the fact that existence in time/space extends

to infinity, without limits, mathematically or otherwise.

Many people simplify their lives in regards to the universe, and

accept that " It just is " and get on with their lives with much less

stress :P

> >

> > " Other cultures had gods that demanded human sacrifices. "

> >

> > Wait a mo' - the old testament God of Christianity did also require

> > human sacrifice? All that kind of sacrifice was done away with when

> > Jesus was crucified - or that is how I understood it anyway?

> >

>

> No, it was animal sacrifice the OT Jews believed in - exactly like the

> pagan societies around them. But the legend of the command to Abraham

> to sacrifice Isaac, then not to after all when he had shown his

> willingness to obey, seems to be a purpose-written story for adjusting

> converts' minds away from the idea of human sacrifice. Which was

> practised by the pagans.

>

> Of course, Proper Christianity,founded as an offshoot of Judaism, is

> then sick compared to Judaism, with its mathematically incoherent idea

> that Jesus was without sin therefore sacrificed himself as a

> substitutionary third party to pay for the sins of the whole world.

> How did that payment to God count, if (1) Jesus actually was God, or

> 1/3 of God (2) God magicked him back to life on the third day,

> reversing the sacrifice ?

>

> Moderate Christianity, Episcopal, forms a part of my social life, but

> I count myself a Gnostic rather than a Christian, because of not

> swallowing this sacrifice story.

>

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> : ".....parishes that still follow the proper ways."LOL!Prope r= Tolerance???  Rainbow

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Be very careful, Rainbow! The last time I expressed that I was highly

amused at some concept making sense, Inger came down on me like a load

of feces flushed down to the sewer under high pressure :)

(no apologies for telling the truth here :P )

>

> > : " .....parishes that still follow the proper ways. "

>

> LOL!

>

> Prope r= Tolerance???

>

> Rainbow

>

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Yes I was thinking of that one time where he was stopped - but there

was animal sacrifice.

>

> That is a misunderstanding on your part. Animal sacrifice, most

> defninitely. Human sacrifice? Sacreligious! The animal sacrifice

> was symbolic to teach about the coming sacrifice that Jesus would

> fulfill: the giving of the best of the flock without blemish, to

give

> mercy the chance of satisfying justice that eternal laws required.

> The only one that could give mercy is the one that had no legal

> blemishes that justice would require payment on.

>

> Perhaps you're thinking of the one time where (before the 12

tribes) I

> can't remember the exact names off the top of my head, but the

father

> was asked to sacrifice his son: it was a test of obedience, and

only a

> test, and it was stopped by angels before it could be committed (and

> both he and his son were very thankful, too!).

>

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Well I am not Inger, but I do find this sentence " Inger came down on

me like a load of feces flushed down to the sewer under high

pressure :) " offensive.

> >

> > > : " .....parishes that still follow the proper ways. "

> >

> > LOL!

> >

> > Prope r= Tolerance???

> >

> > Rainbow

> >

>

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