Guest guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 In a message dated 8/26/03 7:29:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mmarasco@... writes: > Whatever you were told that is thoroughly and totally > innaccurate.These are from www.cedarcanyonclinic.com the third one > will likely help the most. If you need any more help definitely let > me know. Thank you very much Dr. Mike. Sally Fallon had said before that most colleges flat-out lie to their students and students' parents about their states vaccine requirements, so I figured it wasn't the case. I took it casually, smiled, told her I wasn't getting the vaccines and as to getting my grades " we'll see about that. " The links should help me get some accurate legal info. Thanks! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 And while I'm fairly confident I can find some legal loophole out of this, I have to say that for the first time I've found myself on the receving end of the government telling me what I can and can't do with my body, forcing me to take the choice between what I take to be harming myself and fulfilling my dreams and potential. I feel quite violated, mediated only by my expectation to get out of it. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Whatever you were told that is thoroughly and totally innaccurate.These are from www.cedarcanyonclinic.com the third one will likely help the most. If you need any more help definitely let me know. DMM www.909shot.com The National Vaccine Information Center - The premiere leader in the US in providing accurate information regarding the scourge that is " not really Mandatory " vaccination of children. This is a must visit for anyone considering having children or any parents who wish to prevent their own child from being part of the systematic poisoning and maiming of US children. www.thinktwice.com The real scoop on why vaccines are neither mandatory and nor desirable. www.immunizationattorney.com The real scoop on why vaccines are not necessary for school attendance. The no shot no school campaigns are pure drivel and in nearly all states you still have the RIGHT not to poison your child while still enacting your privilege of sending them to school. Don't be a sheep. > Could someone point me to an organization that provides legal information and > help to people about vaccines? > > I've been informed today that if I don't get three rounds of hepatitis B > vaccine I won't be able to get my grades for the fall and it will be " very hard " > for me to register for spring classes. I'm in MA. > > Chris > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Bonnie, can you share some of what you learned about the AIDS/vaccine connection? is it just hep. B? i've never heard that before and would like to learn more. elaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 If for whatever reason you cannot find what you're looking for. Simply locate the Mass legal code for vaccination of students. There must be an actual law in the code written as to the mandate for all students to be vaccinated and within that code will be one of two things or both. a) who is exempt ie. medical, religious, philosophical, etc... and or what is required to demonstrate the fact that you are exempt. For example in some states like Utah as was mentioned earlier, there is an actual health dept. form. In other states the schools or districts provide a form. Here in Ohio there is no form a parent or student 18 or over simply has to write a letter stating the exemption and siting the state legal code. You really have the hammer here you don't have much of a fight at all, for most situations this is a clear legal issue you'll just have to locat the state law and its details. DMM > In a message dated 8/26/03 7:29:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > mmarasco@c... writes: > > > Whatever you were told that is thoroughly and totally > > innaccurate.These are from www.cedarcanyonclinic.com the third one > > will likely help the most. If you need any more help definitely let > > me know. > > Thank you very much Dr. Mike. Sally Fallon had said before that most > colleges flat-out lie to their students and students' parents about their states > vaccine requirements, so I figured it wasn't the case. I took it casually, > smiled, told her I wasn't getting the vaccines and as to getting my grades " we'll > see about that. " > > The links should help me get some accurate legal info. > > Thanks! > Chris > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 As I mentioned in my previous post (before I read this one) citizens are made to feel like they somehow need to find a sneaky way out of vaccines. A loophole or a slippery escape. In reality the state code will tell the entire story for nearly every person. I guarantee you that even the folks trying to enforce the state code don't even know what it is. Just get the state code and you'll be the one with the hammer. DMM > And while I'm fairly confident I can find some legal loophole out of this, I > have to say that for the first time I've found myself on the receving end of > the government telling me what I can and can't do with my body, forcing me to > take the choice between what I take to be harming myself and fulfilling my > dreams and potential. I feel quite violated, mediated only by my expectation to > get out of it. > > Chris > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 I'm so sorry! I worry about this too as I refuse to get vaccinated again. They used to give me tetanus shots yearly because I worked with horses. I wonder if this had a part to play in my autoimmune condition? =) Though I don't think any one thing is to blame. I hope I don't run into the trouble you have but I probably will when I transfer to the 4 year university. I'm still taking basic stuff at the community college. I know that my kids will never be vaccinated and my mother is already freaking out about that though I have only tried to show her the dangers and never mentioned my future and hypothetical children, she put two and two together. For someone who understands so little about how vaccines truly work she is sure she knows better than I do. Dawn > And while I'm fairly confident I can find some legal loophole out of > this, I have to say that for the first time I've found myself on the > receving end of the government telling me what I can and can't do with > my body, forcing me to take the choice between what I take to be > harming myself and fulfilling my dreams and potential. I feel quite > violated, mediated only by my expectation to get out of it. > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Quoting " Dr. Marasco " <mmarasco@...>: > If for whatever reason you cannot find what you're looking for. > Simply locate the Mass legal code for vaccination of students. > There must be an actual law in the code written as to the mandate > for all students to be vaccinated and within that code will be one > of two things or both. I'm no expert on the laws of Massachussetts, nor on the laws of any other state, but it seems to me that there would have to be a law explicitly providing for exemptions or prohibiting the schools from requiring vaccinations. I very much doubt that there's a law requiring that students have a certain SAT score or GPA to be admitted, but the administration is still free to set such standards if it chooses. Likewise, unless there is a law specifically prohibiting it or providing for exemptions, I assume that the school is free to set its own policy regarding vaccination, especially at a university, where attendance is not mandatory. -- Berg bberg@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 > I hope I don't run into the trouble you have but I probably will when I > transfer to the 4 year university. I'm still taking basic stuff at the > community college. -----> A few years ago I asked for a vaccine waiver at the new college I was attending. No big deal. I filled it out for " religous reasons " . They informed me if there was an outbreak of anything I would not be allowed on campus, I signed okay and that was that. No more questions asked and no vaccines! Easy as pie and no asked me anymore questions. I think you'll be okay. Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Chris- Is it actually the government telling you what to do, though, or just people misrepresenting what the government actually says? >for the first time I've found myself on the receving end of >the government telling me what I can and can't do with my body, forcing me to >take the choice between what I take to be harming myself and fulfilling my >dreams and potential. I feel quite violated, mediated only by my >expectation to >get out of it. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 In a message dated 8/26/03 9:47:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bberg@... writes: > Likewise, unless there is a > law specifically prohibiting it or providing for exemptions, I assume that > the school is free to set its own policy regarding vaccination, especially > at a university, where attendance is not mandatory. There isn't a single state that doesn't have a specific law explicitly allowing medical exemptions, and 19 (not MA) even have " philosophical exemptions " ! I'm not at a university, I'm just doing some post-bac stuff at a community college. And in fact, the health services worker told me the opposite-- they won't make " any " exceptions " just because it's a state law. " Which is rather amusing, since the state law explicitly allows for " exceptions. " Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 In a message dated 8/26/03 10:07:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Idol@... writes: > Is it actually the government telling you what to do, though, or just > people misrepresenting what the government actually says? As far as I can tell so far it seems it's mostly a case of people misrepresenting what the gov't says, which is why my feeling of violation is greatly mediated. So I'm taking it quite casually-- but it really pisses me off that the public health policy is obviously geared towards-- and seems to be in every state gov't/college/university system-- duping the public into meidcal procedures with no informed consent, while keeping loopholes they don't inform anyone of for the sake of preventing the few people who figure it out making an uproar that will alert everyone to the shenanigan. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 I agree that would " seem " to be true however it would also seem that the legal code would be logical, fair and applied even handedly and that doesn't happen either. I am certainly not a legal expert, however I am familiar with the legalities of compulsory exemptions and while I philosophically and politically disagree with how the law is interpreted for private institutions such as private schools, they cannot set their own policy. Each state code does explicitly provide for the compulsory vaccine and its concommitant exemption. One likely reason most private schools can't set their own policy is that in this day and age they have likely taken money from Uncle Sam or the state for something at some point and thus are mandated as such. DMM --- In , Berg <bberg@c...> wrote: > Quoting " Dr. Marasco " <mmarasco@c...>: > > If for whatever reason you cannot find what you're looking for. > > Simply locate the Mass legal code for vaccination of students. > > There must be an actual law in the code written as to the mandate > > for all students to be vaccinated and within that code will be one > > of two things or both. > > I'm no expert on the laws of Massachussetts, nor on the laws of any other > state, but it seems to me that there would have to be a law explicitly > providing for exemptions or prohibiting the schools from requiring > vaccinations. I very much doubt that there's a law requiring that students > have a certain SAT score or GPA to be admitted, but the administration is > still free to set such standards if it chooses. Likewise, unless there is a > law specifically prohibiting it or providing for exemptions, I assume that > the school is free to set its own policy regarding vaccination, especially > at a university, where attendance is not mandatory. > > -- > Berg > bberg@c... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 , If you were to ask any modern day school official from teacher to superintendant to the Governor you would with few exceptions be told vaccines are mandated by the state. Certainly this is in fact a misinterpretation of the law by people. However when every official from top to bottom does so it becomes clear that at least a small majority are doing it with malice. I've been doing this for a long time and it is clear that the overwhelming " official " interpretation of the compulsory vaccine laws are " please do not confuse me with the facts " . DMM --- In , Idol <Idol@c...> wrote: > Chris- > > Is it actually the government telling you what to do, though, or just > people misrepresenting what the government actually says? > > >for the first time I've found myself on the receving end of > >the government telling me what I can and can't do with my body, forcing me to > >take the choice between what I take to be harming myself and fulfilling my > >dreams and potential. I feel quite violated, mediated only by my > >expectation to > >get out of it. > > > > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Speaking of vaccine, there was an article in WP recently about mercury posioning and it stated in the article that RH neg women should insist on thermisol free vaccines. Does anyone know why that is specific to Rh neg women? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Re: vaccine help > I agree that would " seem " to be true however it would also > seem that the legal code would be logical, fair and applied even > handedly and that doesn't happen either. I am certainly not a legal > expert, however I am familiar with the legalities of compulsory > exemptions and while I philosophically and politically disagree with > how the law is interpreted for private institutions such as private > schools, they cannot set their own policy. Each state code does > explicitly provide for the compulsory vaccine and its concommitant > exemption. One likely reason most private schools can't set their > own policy is that in this day and age they have likely taken money > from Uncle Sam or the state for something at some point and thus are > mandated as such. What I mean is that the schools, private or otherwise, can, in the absence of any laws prohibiting it, impose additional vaccination requirements above and beyond those specified by law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 The legal experts I have discussed this matter with over the years would say that you are incorrect. Schools canNOT prohbit any student from being present due to a " additional vaccine requirement " . There is no vaccine requirement that can be enforced by a school whether it be state mandated or their own unique policy it is irrelevant, if said student is matriculating through that school and they object to being vaccinated the school has no grounds for taking action of any kind against that student. All 50 states have laws that at minimum state " all students must receive vaccines a, b and c " ... unless that student, students parent, guardian, physician objects for xyz reason. " The laws vary in their language but the compulsory part of compulsory vaccines is in fact not compulsory whether it be the state or a school trying to enforce such a policy. Under no circumstances can a student be forced to be vaccinated if they subscribe to xyz. There are 1 or 2 states that have case law that contradicts this however any more recent challenges have upheld the position that there is no complusory in compulsory vaccination. So I guess the point is that NO " schools, private or otherwise " canNOT " in the absence of any laws prohibiting it, impose additional vaccination requirements above and beyond those specified by law. " They certainly can and do try, however case law dictates they apparently cannot. > What I mean is that the schools, private or otherwise, can, in the > absence of any laws prohibiting it, impose additional vaccination > requirements above and beyond those specified by law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Same for the military. My brother was in the Army for two years and never got any vaccinations. It was a huge deal to convince the Army that they weren't required, but in the end he got out of it. Betsy > The legal experts I have discussed this matter with over the years > would say that you are incorrect. Schools canNOT prohbit any student > from being present due to a " additional vaccine requirement " . There > is no vaccine requirement that can be enforced by a school whether it > be state mandated or their own unique policy it is irrelevant, if > said student is matriculating through that school and they object to ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Diane this is usually in reference to pregnant women who are considering a rogam shot when their rh factor differs from the father. I can't speak to the specific article. DMM > Speaking of vaccine, there was an article in WP recently about mercury posioning and it stated in the article that RH neg women should insist on thermisol free vaccines. Does anyone know why that is specific to Rh neg women? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 >> > Speaking of vaccine, there was an article in WP recently about mercury posioning and it stated in the article that RH neg women should insist on thermisol free vaccines. Does anyone know why that is specific to Rh neg women? They are referring to the Rhogam vaccination, which is given only to pregnant women with Rh negative blood type whose husband is Rh positive. ~ Carma ~ " God has given you all you need to train and educate your children at home - it's in real books and real life. " ~ Clay son ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 I said, " in the absence of any law prohibiting it. " If schools cannot have their own vaccination requirements in addition to those required by law, then there must be some law prohibiting them from doing so. It's less a question of law than of logic. How can anything be illegal without some law to prohibit it? Quoting " Dr. Marasco " <mmarasco@...>: > The legal experts I have discussed this matter with over the years > would say that you are incorrect. Schools canNOT prohbit any student > from being present due to a " additional vaccine requirement " . There > is no vaccine requirement that can be enforced by a school whether it > be state mandated or their own unique policy it is irrelevant, if > said student is matriculating through that school and they object to > being vaccinated the school has no grounds for taking action of any > kind against that student. All 50 states have laws that at minimum > state " all students must receive vaccines a, b and c " ... unless that > student, students parent, guardian, physician objects for xyz > reason. " The laws vary in their language but the compulsory part of > compulsory vaccines is in fact not compulsory whether it be the state > or a school trying to enforce such a policy. Under no circumstances > can a student be forced to be vaccinated if they subscribe to xyz. > There are 1 or 2 states that have case law that contradicts this > however any more recent challenges have upheld the position that > there is no complusory in compulsory vaccination. > > So I guess the point is that NO " schools, private or otherwise " > canNOT " in the absence of any laws prohibiting it, impose additional > vaccination requirements above and beyond those specified by law. " > > They certainly can and do try, however case law dictates they > apparently cannot. > > > > What I mean is that the schools, private or otherwise, can, in the > > absence of any laws prohibiting it, impose additional vaccination > > requirements above and beyond those specified by law. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 the legal system defies logic as daily practice I'm not sure why you find it so inconceivable. In reality there is actual case law prohibiting schools from enforcing such a policy where there no law of any kind prohibiting it. My guess and again this is a guess and I am not a legal expert, however many schools regardless of private or public take government money, this may bind them to the state laws and in those cases they would in fact be prohibited from acting outside of the state code. But even with that said you should not find illogical law practices to be so inconceivable. If nothing else I have two letters for you O - J. --- In , Berg <bberg@c...> wrote: > I said, " in the absence of any law prohibiting it. " If schools cannot have > their own vaccination requirements in addition to those required by law, > then there must be some law prohibiting them from doing so. It's less a > question of law than of logic. How can anything be illegal without some law > to prohibit it? > > Quoting " Dr. Marasco " <mmarasco@c...>: > > > The legal experts I have discussed this matter with over the years > > would say that you are incorrect. Schools canNOT prohbit any student > > from being present due to a " additional vaccine requirement " . There > > is no vaccine requirement that can be enforced by a school whether it > > be state mandated or their own unique policy it is irrelevant, if > > said student is matriculating through that school and they object to > > being vaccinated the school has no grounds for taking action of any > > kind against that student. All 50 states have laws that at minimum > > state " all students must receive vaccines a, b and c " ... unless that > > student, students parent, guardian, physician objects for xyz > > reason. " The laws vary in their language but the compulsory part of > > compulsory vaccines is in fact not compulsory whether it be the state > > or a school trying to enforce such a policy. Under no circumstances > > can a student be forced to be vaccinated if they subscribe to xyz. > > There are 1 or 2 states that have case law that contradicts this > > however any more recent challenges have upheld the position that > > there is no complusory in compulsory vaccination. > > > > So I guess the point is that NO " schools, private or otherwise " > > canNOT " in the absence of any laws prohibiting it, impose additional > > vaccination requirements above and beyond those specified by law. " > > > > They certainly can and do try, however case law dictates they > > apparently cannot. > > > > > > > What I mean is that the schools, private or otherwise, can, in the > > > absence of any laws prohibiting it, impose additional vaccination > > > requirements above and beyond those specified by law. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 But this goes beyond simple government illogic, beyond OJ illogic (in no particular order), and into the realm of the surreal. Stupid laws (but I repeat myself) can be passed, and juries can fail to convict, but judges can't just order people to do things without some legal basis. Do you know of any specific cases? Quoting " Dr. Marasco " <mmarasco@...>: > the legal system defies logic as daily practice I'm not sure > why you find it so inconceivable. In reality there is actual case > law prohibiting schools from enforcing such a policy where there no > law of any kind prohibiting it. My guess and again this is a guess > and I am not a legal expert, however many schools regardless of > private or public take government money, this may bind them to the > state laws and in those cases they would in fact be prohibited from > acting outside of the state code. But even with that said you > should not find illogical law practices to be so inconceivable. If > nothing else I have two letters for you O - J. > > > > > I said, " in the absence of any law prohibiting it. " If schools > cannot have > > their own vaccination requirements in addition to those required > by law, > > then there must be some law prohibiting them from doing so. It's > less a > > question of law than of logic. How can anything be illegal without > some law > > to prohibit it? > > > > Quoting " Dr. Marasco " <mmarasco@c...>: > > > > > The legal experts I have discussed this matter with over the > years > > > would say that you are incorrect. Schools canNOT prohbit any > student > > > from being present due to a " additional vaccine requirement " . > There > > > is no vaccine requirement that can be enforced by a school > whether it > > > be state mandated or their own unique policy it is irrelevant, if > > > said student is matriculating through that school and they > object to > > > being vaccinated the school has no grounds for taking action of > any > > > kind against that student. All 50 states have laws that at > minimum > > > state " all students must receive vaccines a, b and c " ... unless > that > > > student, students parent, guardian, physician objects for xyz > > > reason. " The laws vary in their language but the compulsory > part of > > > compulsory vaccines is in fact not compulsory whether it be the > state > > > or a school trying to enforce such a policy. Under no > circumstances > > > can a student be forced to be vaccinated if they subscribe to > xyz. > > > There are 1 or 2 states that have case law that contradicts this > > > however any more recent challenges have upheld the position that > > > there is no complusory in compulsory vaccination. > > > > > > So I guess the point is that NO " schools, private or otherwise " > > > canNOT " in the absence of any laws prohibiting it, impose > additional > > > vaccination requirements above and beyond those specified by > law. " > > > > > > They certainly can and do try, however case law dictates they > > > apparently cannot. > > > > > > > > > > What I mean is that the schools, private or otherwise, can, in > the > > > > absence of any laws prohibiting it, impose additional > vaccination > > > > requirements above and beyond those specified by law. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 - I know nothing about the specifics of this issue, but I think what Mike was suggesting was that, just as hospitals which take any federal money are required to treat everyone, not just people who can demonstrate ahead of time that they can pay, schools which take any federal money may be required to not add extra vaccination requirements of their own. That requirement might not be in the form of a law, but in the terms and conditions of the federal grants, loans, etc., that schools might partake of. >but judges >can't just order people to do things without some legal basis. Do you know >of any specific cases? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 As I understand it the way it works in California is that any school that gets any state funding must comply with state law and in California that means that they must accept a valid exemption. If they don't accept state funding then I don't think they have to allow exemptions but I don't know how that works in practice. Irene At 10:25 AM 8/27/03, you wrote: > Re: vaccine help > > > > I agree that would " seem " to be true however it would also > > seem that the legal code would be logical, fair and applied even > > handedly and that doesn't happen either. I am certainly not a legal > > expert, however I am familiar with the legalities of compulsory > > exemptions and while I philosophically and politically disagree with > > how the law is interpreted for private institutions such as private > > schools, they cannot set their own policy. Each state code does > > explicitly provide for the compulsory vaccine and its concommitant > > exemption. One likely reason most private schools can't set their > > own policy is that in this day and age they have likely taken money > > from Uncle Sam or the state for something at some point and thus are > > mandated as such. > >What I mean is that the schools, private or otherwise, can, in the >absence of any laws prohibiting it, impose additional vaccination >requirements above and beyond those specified by law. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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