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Re: Re: terpeneless oils

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At 11:37 PM 12/28/2006, you wrote:

>edited to correct topposting:

>

> >

> > Any info appreciated as to your experience with them, sources, etc.

> >

> >

> > Anya

>

>It would seem to me that to make them terpene-less is to throw

>the 'natural' out the window and create a chemical from scratch. Ie, if

>you look at the chemical breakdowns (from mass spectroscopy) for most

>EO's, you'll see things like a-pinene, b-pinene, d-limonen, camphene as

>major components... by 'removing them', you are simply buying a FO.

Hi Helenae:

I think you got it all wrong about terpeneless EOs. They've merely

been distilled in such a way as to well, remove the terpenes. An FO

is a synthetic construct, usually made from petrochemicals. Two very

different products.

We perfumers are more liberal in our products than aromatherapists,

and I feel that by reading your take on this, that you may come from

an AT background. AT-ers require that the EO be untouched, just a

straight distillation. Perfumers can be a little more liberal in our

sourcing, as we are not going for the therapeutic effect.

The method is called fractional distillation. Do you use fractionated

coconut oil? Same sort of thing, as I believe the coconut oil is

distilled to remove the long fatty chains, and the concept is the

same - remove something that can be problematic, in the frac. coconut

oil you want to provide long shelf life. With the terpeneless EOs,

you want to avoid milky solutions. Here's a page that explains

http://www.herbdatanz.com/volatile_oils_1.htm for volatile oils

>Terpenes, because they're based on the isoprene molecules are

>decomposed by heat, light and oxygen, which is what causes rancidity in

>EO, their removal might enhance longevity indefinitely... at the

>expense of turning it into something very unnatural. At least that's

>what I would think. I'm no expert on the subject, but I know a bit

>about their chemistry (am anal about getting 'real' EO if I'm paying

>for real EO).

No, it's not the longevity, it's the avoidance of turning hte blend

milky. Not sure how terpenes do that, but perfumery has, for a long

time, advocated terpeneless EOs. I have never used them, so my

question here on the group.

>That said, I know a lot of people buy bergapene free bergamot because

>it has such a strong tendency to cause phytotoxicity. And they smell

>pretty good (I bought a few lbs from FPI last year for soap).

Yes, that is the correct product to use. I'm just wondering why you

don't have a problem with that, but you do with the subject of terpenes?

>But if authenticity and naturalness is really important... I would not

>use a terpeneless EO. If it doesn't matter, then I'd just use an FO to

>begin with. It's ironic, but a lot of FO are made with real EOs

>(sandalwood in some cases), because they can't get those elusive scent

>components without the real thing. While you see the real thing often

>adulterated with chemicals (like the 90% more french lavender EO sold

>in the US every year, than grown in all of France phenomenon).

We don't use FOs here, for many reasons, and I've never smelled a

sandalwood FO that can compare to the real stuff. Many of us here

can share our great sources which include reputable lavender sources,

so just ask if you need help in this department.

>I've not smelled the other terpeneless EO to compare. I know when IFRA

>put the ban on Clove oils in FO use due to the methyleugenol content (I

>believe they withdrew this after the entire industry screamed, haven't

>heard about it again), there was no way to make clove blends smell

>right because there was no substitute for the real thing that was even

>close. So I'd think that removing such key components would really

>distort the scent anyway.

ME guidelines apply to many natural oils, including rose, basil, etc.

Many avoid clove due to the sensitization issue (I am sensitized to

clove.) I will be testing some clove leaf oil when I get it in. I

guess what I'm trying to say there are ways around just about any

restriction, endangered species issue, or slight alteration of an EO,

such as by fractionated distillation. I have to get some to evaluate

before I make comments about the scent, but I wish someone who has

compared them could comment. ly, this is a new subject area for

this group, even though we've been in existance for 4.5 years. Maybe

nobody uses terpeneless oils? That is interesting.

>That said, I'd be really curious to know how a terpeneless eucalyptus

>smelled:P.

Well, we rarely use eucalyptus in perfume, so that again seems to be

more of an AT issue, especially if you're looking for the therapeutic

value, which wouldn't apply to the perfumes.

You seem to have quite a knowledge of chemistry, and I saw by your

application you're a soaper, so please feel free to introduce

yourself to the group, I'm sure we'd love to pick your brain on chems

and soaping. I'm a chicken soaper, which no, doesn't mean I've soaped

with schmaltz (!) LOL, I'm just afraid of the lye, tracing,

coordination, etc. I'd probably blow up the place, or wind up with

gooey slimey junk! But boy, do I love the great soaps produced by

group members! Great stuff.

Anya McCoy

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com

Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org

Natural Perfumers Community Group

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