Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 > > > Hi Anya, > > It was I who posted about the trials according to the Carles Method. > It needn't have been 10 drops (or whatever measure, though ten was the > number used in the Carles examples found in the Kaufman book) - the > point was that he kept the total number of drops constant through all > the trials for a blend, so if, for example, he added three drops of > ingredient A, he deducted a total of three drops of Ingredients B, or > C, etc. to keep the total of ten measures for comparing the different > trials. > > Whereas I have been, let's say, adding one more drop of Ingredient A, > without deducting a drop of any other ingredient, so might start with > Trial #1 having 10 drops and Trial #2 having 11 or 12, or 9 if I used > less of an ingredient. Sorry, this is an awfully clumsy way of > explaining it, but I'm tired but yet would like to answer promptly. > > His method obviously is neater but I wasn't sure what to conclude as > to the effectiveness of doing it his way vs. mine. I'll be very > interested to hear your thoughts on this. > > e , the Carles method is useless. The way you*re working is more effective. If your testing is for the purpose of making production blends later on, keep on working your way. For the sake of making this clearer for the lurkers and onlookers, here*s an example: assume you started with 2 drops lemon EO 3 drops clary sage 4 drops lavander 1 drop neroli 10 drops total now you felt like adding 1 more drop of lemon and you did, that brings your total to 11, no big deal ! Just make sure that you increase the amount of alcohol by 10% since you increased the total number of drops by 10%. Let*s assume you*re ready to batch for production and bottling, the best way to go is to reformulate to a total of 100. Your new adjusted formula is now 3 drops lemon 3 drops clary sage 4 drops lavander 1 drop neroli 11 drops total To revert to a 100 total you multiply the number of drops of each ingredient in your adjusted formula by 100 and divide by the new total which is 11 in this case, it could have been more or less. 3x100/11= 27.27 lemon 3x100/11= 27.27 clary sage 4x100/11= 36.36 lavander 1x100/11= 9.09 neroli TOTAL = 99.99 Now you decide that you have way too much lavander, so you reformulate from scratch (because you can add to an existing blend but not remove) the last formula minus 2 drops lavander and your new total will become 9. don*t forget to use 10% less alcohol. For production batching and to revert to a total of 100, you now multiply the number of drops of each ingredient in your newest formula by 100 and divide by 9, etc.. Good luck selling your composition! n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 At 08:05 AM 3/2/2006, you wrote: > > Whereas I have been, let's say, adding one more drop of >Ingredient A, > > without deducting a drop of any other ingredient, so might start with > > Trial #1 having 10 drops and Trial #2 having 11 or 12, or 9 if I used > > less of an ingredient. Sorry, this is an awfully clumsy way of > > explaining it, but I'm tired but yet would like to answer promptly. > > > > His method obviously is neater but I wasn't sure what to >conclude as > > to the effectiveness of doing it his way vs. mine. I'll be very > > interested to hear your thoughts on this.e > > > >, the Carles method is useless. The way you*re working is more >effective. If your testing is for the purpose of making production Hi n,e: The Carles method is not for production purposes, and it is very useful for what it intends -- to show the interrelationship and the changes that occur when you contrast a few aromatics against each other, to see what synergy occurs. That's why I encouraged e to get that part down pat, and then she will be able to improvise, as a student of music would, after learning the scales, the foundation of the art. Your help with converting basic blends back and forth was quite useful, thanks for those tips! Anya http://.com The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume / Join to study natural perfumery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Thank you, all, for making me think this process through! I just couldn't see how the Carles method applied to blending... adding to one and subtracting from another would give you a double whammy considering blend percentages. So... Carles is a learning technique, but we should actually blend by ratios, right? Now, rather than doing all that math, here's what I do. I start with 10 drops of alcohol and add the oils. When it gets too strong to give me a good sense of character (or when I'm satisfied with the combination)I add enough alcohol to bring it back to a 30% (or whatever) solution. But... I'm a new kid. What do I know? Does it make sense? Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 > > Thank you, all, for making me think this process through! I just > couldn't see how the Carles method applied to blending... adding to > one and subtracting from another would give you a double whammy > considering blend percentages. So... Carles is a learning technique, > but we should actually blend by ratios, right? > > Now, rather than doing all that math, here's what I do. I start with > 10 drops of alcohol and add the oils. When it gets too strong to give > me a good sense of character (or when I'm satisfied with the > combination)I add enough alcohol to bring it back to a 30% (or > whatever) solution. > > But... I'm a new kid. What do I know? Does it make sense? > Janet > Janet, That*s fine as long as you write down everything. Now you come up with this awesome blend and you win the Fifi Award and someone wants to buy your formula. Some math will help to count the money you*ll be receiving. Seriously, you would need to convert your figures to add up to 100 or 1000 in order to blend bigger batches, again a bottler will do that for you but you would still need to count your money. n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Now, rather than doing all that math, here's what I do. I start with 10 drops of alcohol and add the oils. When it gets too strong to give me a good sense of character (or when I'm satisfied with the combination)I add enough alcohol to bring it back to a 30% (or whatever) solution. But... I'm a new kid. What do I know? Does it make sense? Janet Hi Janet, At the risk of beating a subject to death, I offer my blending method...a version of the Carles method (I think!) I begin with two oils and combine them in all of the ratios that add up to ten: 9 to 1, 8 to 2, and so on, throught 3 to 7, 2 to 8, and 1 to 9. You might use this method if, say, you wanted to create a floral accord using jasmin and ylang. After making each of these combinations, you dip a smell strip in each (be sure to label the strips) and then decide which of the combinations pleases you the most. When you are done, you have created a jasmin/ylang accord of, perhaps 7 parts ylang to 3 parts jasmin. Or 8 parts jasmin and 2 parts ylang. Or whatever you decided that you liked most. You can then treat this accord as a single ingredient and go through the same procedure with the addition of another oil. For example, you might want to test the effect of combining your jasmin/ylang accord with rose geranium. So, you do all the ratios again (9 to 1, 8 to 2, etc) using jasmin/ylang as one oil and rose geranium as the other oil. The math does start to get a tiny bit complicated. You might end up liking 8 parts jasmin/ylang combined with 2 parts rose geranium. If so, here comes the tricky math: Assume for a moment that your jasmin/ylang accord is 6 parts jasmin to 4 parts ylang. Now, you have a final blend that is 20% rose geranium (2 parts out of 10), 48% jasmin (60% of 8 parts out of 10), and 32% ylang (40% or 8 parts out of 10). Roughly speaking, you have created a final accord that is 5 parts jasmin, 3 parts ylang, and 2 parts rose geranium. After all this tedious work, you can do the same thing with oils that are more volatile to create a top accord, and do it again with a few less-volatile oils to create a base accord. Finally, you use the three accords as your starting ingredients to create a final blend. Whew! And, don't forget to do all the math as you go along. This seems like a dreadful amount of work and math, but it offers wonderful results. The most important result is that you are continually creating accords that you can use again and again in other blends. If you keep good notes on each accord, including the proportion of each oil and your personal impression of its final effect, you can then use that accord in future blends, whenever that effect is what you need. Or, you can adjust the accord slightly to meet your new need. The point is that you don't have to go through the entire process each time you blend. By working this way, you dramatically increase the number of ingredients you own. A small collection of thirty or so ingredients can become over a hundred ingredients, when you count the accords you have created. And, best of all, the accords are yours and yours alone; nobody else has them. One final note. This process is cheaper and, to my mind, more effective if you make 10% solutions of each of your ingredients and then do all of the above work using those diluted solutions. I find it much easier to judge the smell of a blend when it is diluted than when it uses undiluted oils and absolutes. It is true that you have to deal with the alcohol note, but that goes down a lot once the solutions have aged for a while. Steve Earl Glen Custom Perfumery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of n Bichar , the Carles method is useless. The way you*re working is more effective. If your testing is for the purpose of making production blends later on, keep on working your way. For the sake of making this clearer for the lurkers and onlookers, here*s an example: assume you started with 2 drops lemon EO 3 drops clary sage 4 drops lavander 1 drop neroli 10 drops total now you felt like adding 1 more drop of lemon and you did, that brings your total to 11, no big deal ! Just make sure that you increase the amount of alcohol by 10% since you increased the total number of drops by 10%. Let*s assume you*re ready to batch for production and bottling, the best way to go is to reformulate to a total of 100. Your new adjusted formula is now 3 drops lemon 3 drops clary sage 4 drops lavander 1 drop neroli 11 drops total To revert to a 100 total you multiply the number of drops of each ingredient in your adjusted formula by 100 and divide by the new total which is 11 in this case, it could have been more or less. 3x100/11= 27.27 lemon 3x100/11= 27.27 clary sage 4x100/11= 36.36 lavander 1x100/11= 9.09 neroli TOTAL = 99.99 Now you decide that you have way too much lavander, so you reformulate from scratch (because you can add to an existing blend but not remove) the last formula minus 2 drops lavander and your new total will become 9. don*t forget to use 10% less alcohol. For production batching and to revert to a total of 100, you now multiply the number of drops of each ingredient in your newest formula by 100 and divide by 9, etc.. Good luck selling your composition! n I couldn't get my mind around the original description of the Carles method. This makes more sense to me, n. Thank you! One clarification, in your last paragraph, you state that removing 2 drops of lavender you adjust 10% alcohol . . . Shouldn't that be 20%? Or am I stilll not getting it? I see that the changed formula still adds up to 99.99 . . . But we've now reduced by 2 drops . . . Or 20% alcohol? Thanks in advance for explaining further or correcting my thinking. Be Well, Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from Nigeria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of n Bichar Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:31 AM Subject: Re: Carles Method of 10 > Janet, That*s fine as long as you write down everything. Now you come up with this awesome blend and you win the Fifi Award and someone wants to buy your formula. Some math will help to count the money you*ll be receiving. Seriously, you would need to convert your figures to add up to 100 or 1000 in order to blend bigger batches, again a bottler will do that for you but you would still need to count your money. n Just feeling silly today . . . Can't help but think it should be the 'FooFoo' award. :-)) <grins> Alright, I'll get back to work now. Be Well, Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from Nigeria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 > > I couldn't get my mind around the original description of the Carles method. > This makes more sense to me, n. Thank you! One clarification, in your > last paragraph, you state that removing 2 drops of lavender you adjust 10% > alcohol . . . Shouldn't that be 20%? Or am I stilll not getting it? I see > that the changed formula still adds up to 99.99 . . . But we've now reduced > by 2 drops . . . Or 20% alcohol? Thanks in advance for explaining further > or correcting my thinking. > > Be Well, > Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com Marcia, I think by now Carles got a good spanking. After you decrease the number of drops of lavender by 2 from an 11 drops formula, now you have 9 drops total. You will be reformulating from scratch with 9 drops of EO total, therefore you will need 90% of alcohol compared to 100% alcohol for a 10 drop formula. n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Steve said: > At the risk of beating a subject to death, I offer my blending method...a > version of the Carles method (I think!) I begin with two oils and combine > them in all of the ratios that add up to ten: 9 to 1, 8 to 2, and so on, > throught 3 to 7, 2 to 8, and 1 to 9... The most important result is that you are continually creating accords that you can use again and again in other blends. Steve, I appreciate the time you put into spelling that whole process out (great post). I can see how it puts much more control into the perfumer's hand. There have been plenty of times when I'd been a bit heavy handed and would have liked to take a step back, but couldn't. Your point about milder dilutions is also well taken. I find that I'm already doing some of that coincidentally. First, when I get a new oil, I make varied dilutions to learn it's nuances. Then, when I'm needing only a fraction of a drop to add to something else. It'll be nice to have the variations on the shelf and ready to go... especially the re-usable accords. I must say, Steve, that single post has increased by experience by a generous factor of 10 drops. Thanks! Look out, vial venders! Janet is shopping for glassware! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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