Re: Bulk MSM Arrived Today

[Guest guest]

I also started on MSM & Glucosamine about a month back, hoping to improve an old

knee injury. My fingers (which were fine before) started to stiffen almost

immediately and my acid reflux got so bad life just wasn't worth living anymore.

This was the only new supplement, and the negative symptoms stopped when I

stopped taking them. I was hoping to keep mobile with age. Is there something

else that'll give the same results? Does Hyal Joint do the same thing? moo

Re: Bulk MSM Arrived Today

,

This is probably the last thing you expected to hear, but consider the

possibility that you may have a problem with mercury toxicity. With

mercury you can experience numbness in the hands along and neurological

symptoms and damage. In fact, this is a typical symptom.

If going off of it gives you relief after awhile you have a fairly

clear marker that mercury could be the problem. Since it takes a long

time for nerves to heal and regenerate, this could possibly take a long

time to notice a difference...hard to say. I am thinking if the

difference were quick, it might be even more diagnostic. It really

might be hard to tell this way.....but I would definitley discontinue

both the Glucosamine and MSM until you have done more investigation on

the mercury possibility. It could save you a lot of grief, heartache

and illness in the long run.

~Inga

On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Brown wrote:

> Hi Jim:

>

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Inga:

Thanks for that information. I wouldn't rule out mercury as a

complicating factor, however the history of this problem suggests

that it is mechanical.

I have had an MRI scan of my neck, showing damaged cartilage and

partially blocked nerve exit points on the 6th cervical

vertebra. This was exacerbated by a traffic accident with whiplash

when I was 17, giving me a compression fracture of the 6th vertebra.

Instead of surgery, I opted for a traction device and the use of

Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM and this combination has kept me

mostly symptom free for about 10 years now. I also stopped

running. I used to jog or run 5-15 miles per day, but that greatly

exacerbates the problem.

The doses of G/C/M were relatively small, on the order of 500 mg to

1.5 gm per day each. Whenever I've had symptoms, the neck traction

device, the PRONEX, would always take them away. Usually just

stretching and exercise would as well. Recently, a couple of months

ago, the symptoms started increasing again. I began increasing the

doses of G/C/M and they got worse, not better as before. Now,

nothing seems to take away the numbness (not the motor capacity) of

my left-hand 5th or little finger ( " pinky " ) and the left side of the

4th finger, which are handled by the same nerve. Further increasing

the dose of MSM, yesterday, seems to have made it still worse. This

may or may not be a valid perception, but it is enough to make me

want to back off the G/C/M regimen for a time. Before the dose

increase of a few weeks ago, I could still make the numbness go away

with the PRONEX or stretching.

Because of the mechanical history, other mechanisms did not seem to

be involved. However, I have had many mercury fillings and I do eat

a lot of fish and have for most of my entire life, except for a 7

year vegan/vegetarian stint, during which I became so spaced out that

I couldn't function sufficiently mentally and had to stop. Fish is

certainly my favorite protein. Therefore, although the mechanical

cause is still what I believe to be the major one, there could be a

complication with mercury. Most of my amalgam fillings have been

removed, but I do have 2 or 3 left from a long time ago before I knew

better. Interestingly, this renewed problem coincided with a

fractured #2 tooth being removed (my first extraction), however that

tooth had a noble metal crown and no amalgam, so I would think it a

coincidence. The #1 wisdom tooth next to the removed molar has

amalgam. I am waiting for the bone to heal now to get an implant.

I've done some oral chelation and will now do some more in the hopes

that it will help. I'll consider buying the book you

referenced. I've talked to my dentist about replacing all my mercury

fillings, but the cost and fear of the removal being done wrong has

prevented me from doing so. Now, that I have so few, it wouldn't

cost much, but would it be done correctly? I really appreciate your

providing this information.

At 09:42 PM 10/18/2006, you wrote:

>,

>This is probably the last thing you expected to hear, but consider the

>possibility that you may have a problem with mercury toxicity. With

>mercury you can experience numbness in the hands along and neurological

>symptoms and damage. In fact, this is a typical symptom.

>

>Now, the reason that I say this, is that Glucosamine Sulfate and

>MethylSulfphonylMethane are very high sulphur compounds. (it is the

>sulfur that can help heal tissues) Well, it just so happens that

>mercury, being part of the sulphydral group, is mobilized by sulphur.

>To translate, that means that high sulphur foods and/or supplements

>will MOVE mercury around, causing all sorts of mercury

>symptoms.....like numbness in the hands. It is contraindicated for

>mercury toxic people by anybody that understands chemistry and really

>knows what they are doing with regards to mercury poisoning.

>

>Consider this a distinct possibility. To learn more from the best info

>available out there, see: <http://www.noamalgam.com>http://www.noamalgam.com

>The book available at that site is a treasure trove of information and

>will teach you how to find out for sure one way or the other, if

>mercury is a problem, as well as rulling it out if it is not the

>problem.

>

>If going off of it gives you relief after awhile you have a fairly

>clear marker that mercury could be the problem. Since it takes a long

>time for nerves to heal and regenerate, this could possibly take a long

>time to notice a difference...hard to say. I am thinking if the

>difference were quick, it might be even more diagnostic. It really

>might be hard to tell this way.....but I would definitley discontinue

>both the Glucosamine and MSM until you have done more investigation on

>the mercury possibility. It could save you a lot of grief, heartache

>and illness in the long run.

>~Inga

>

>On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Brown wrote:

>

> > Hi Jim:

> >

> > I've mentioned the problem I have with an old injury in my

> > neck. Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM have improved it in the past

> > and recently it started to occasionally give numbness in the hands

> > more than usual. After hearing your experience, I increased my dose

> > and then recently ordered a tub of the powered MSM, which arrived

> > today. It is perhaps too early to tell definitively, but it seems

> > that since I've been increasing the dose the numbness that occurs in

> > my hands has worsened. It may be that it was worsening anyway and

> > that I didn't take enough to even slow it down. Today, however, I

> > took 36 gm of MSM in a drink and apart from a feeling of it going all

> > over my body, like a warm flush, the numbness in my left pinky seemed

> > to worsen yet - within hours. Perhaps new cartilage is growing and

> > pinching the nerve??? Perhaps it is healing and during a short time

> > pinching the nerve more than usual? I'm going to go off if it

> > entirely for a while and see if it gets better. I'm not looking

> > forward to the possibility of surgery on my neck. Any suggestions,

> > Jim or anyone else?

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim:

The amount I took was 3 level tablespoons of fine powder, each having

12 gm = 36 gm. It has quite a bitter taste and unsettled my stomach

for a while, but not terribly and no diarrhea or flatulence. I think

that's the biggest dose I could take at once, BTW, I mixed it with

several packages of EmergenC to improve the taste. There was no lip

numbness, just a warm flushing as it absorbed into my

bloodstream. That part was not really unpleasant. The only thing

unpleasant is this numbness in my left 5th finger and I'm not totally

convinced that the MSM made it worse, but it did not make it better,

that's for certain. I'm going to cut it out for now and per Inga's

recommendation increase oral chelation, which I haven't done for a

while. I may go get IV chelation as there are a lot of docs around

here who do it. I probably should have the rest of my

amalgam/mercury fillings replaced with gold or composite, but that

could be costly as my insurance will not pay for elective

replacement. Thanks so much for your concern and support. It is

greatly appreciated. I'll keep you posted.

At 08:50 AM 10/19/2006, you wrote:

>Dear :

>

>That is kinda scary. As you know, I have taken very large quantities

>of MSM in the past and with nothing but good results. Certainly, I

>never experienced any numbness, except that MSM did make my lips kind

>of numb for a few seconds as I recall, nor have I ever heard or read

>about any such effects from MSM. The warm flush sounds familiar

>though... but I can't remember it happening for sure. I always sort of

>dreaded the initial " hit " that I got from it, but that subsided quickly

>and I liked the cool aftermath. I take much smaller quantities now that

>my joints are in order (in tablet form) and my joints have been " like

>new " for a couple of years except for a very slight elbow pain after a

>serious tennis match that quickly goes away. I cringe to think about

>where I would be today without MSM. Most likely, I would have an

>artificial knee and probably would be well on my way to a hip joint. It

>seems like about everyone that is engaged in active sports as I am and

>at my age has had some kind of reconstructive surgery or joint replacement.

>

>As to these new developments: With what is gong on and the fact that it

>seems to increase with more intake, my inclination would also be to

>stop taking it for a week or two and see what happens. If the numbness

>increases after stopping, I would think that you have proof enough that

>MSM is not contributing... and be pretty sure that its something

>else. Your thoughts about cartilage growth are certainly plausible

>given my own experience.

>

>By the way, I just took a heaping tablespoonful out of my last pound

>(it was the coarse grain style MSM that I never liked) so that I could

>remember what it was like when I was doing " vast quantities " The

>experience was not as powerful as I had recalled. The aftertaste

>lingers a bit even after ten minutes.. no numb lips... but they were

>somewhat enlivened... I do not mind any of it. One thing that you

>know after taking it is that this MSM is some powerful stuff. No wonder

>my knee and hip healed up. They were probably afraid not to. :0)

>

>Yes, surgery on anything really makes me cringe and anything related to

>the spine especially does. I don't think that, at age 64, I will ever

>let anyone cut on me again. But of course, I will always strive to

>make my decisions in the moment and not before I am so sorry to hear

>this news. I do wish you the best and you have my thoughts. Keep me

>apprised.

>

>Kind Regards, Jim

>

> Brown wrote:

>

> > Hi Jim:

> >

> > I've mentioned the problem I have with an old injury in my

> > neck. Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM have improved it in the past

> > and recently it started to occasionally give numbness in the hands

> > more than usual. After hearing your experience, I increased my dose

> > and then recently ordered a tub of the powered MSM, which arrived

> > today. It is perhaps too early to tell definitively, but it seems

> > that since I've been increasing the dose the numbness that occurs in

> > my hands has worsened. It may be that it was worsening anyway and

> > that I didn't take enough to even slow it down. Today, however, I

> > took 36 gm of MSM in a drink and apart from a feeling of it going all

> > over my body, like a warm flush, the numbness in my left pinky seemed

> > to worsen yet - within hours. Perhaps new cartilage is growing and

> > pinching the nerve??? Perhaps it is healing and during a short time

> > pinching the nerve more than usual? I'm going to go off if it

> > entirely for a while and see if it gets better. I'm not looking

> > forward to the possibility of surgery on my neck. Any suggestions,

> > Jim or anyone else?

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

If mercury is a problem, selenium can help remove it. 200 mcg and up, not to

exceed 600mcg for any length of time.

Re: Bulk MSM Arrived Today

Hi Inga:

Thanks for that information. I wouldn't rule out mercury as a

complicating factor, however the history of this problem suggests

that it is mechanical.

I have had an MRI scan of my neck, showing damaged cartilage and

partially blocked nerve exit points on the 6th cervical

vertebra. This was exacerbated by a traffic accident with whiplash

when I was 17, giving me a compression fracture of the 6th vertebra.

Instead of surgery, I opted for a traction device and the use of

Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM and this combination has kept me

mostly symptom free for about 10 years now. I also stopped

running. I used to jog or run 5-15 miles per day, but that greatly

exacerbates the problem.

The doses of G/C/M were relatively small, on the order of 500 mg to

1.5 gm per day each. Whenever I've had symptoms, the neck traction

device, the PRONEX, would always take them away. Usually just

stretching and exercise would as well. Recently, a couple of months

ago, the symptoms started increasing again. I began increasing the

doses of G/C/M and they got worse, not better as before. Now,

nothing seems to take away the numbness (not the motor capacity) of

my left-hand 5th or little finger ( " pinky " ) and the left side of the

4th finger, which are handled by the same nerve. Further increasing

the dose of MSM, yesterday, seems to have made it still worse. This

may or may not be a valid perception, but it is enough to make me

want to back off the G/C/M regimen for a time. Before the dose

increase of a few weeks ago, I could still make the numbness go away

with the PRONEX or stretching.

Because of the mechanical history, other mechanisms did not seem to

be involved. However, I have had many mercury fillings and I do eat

a lot of fish and have for most of my entire life, except for a 7

year vegan/vegetarian stint, during which I became so spaced out that

I couldn't function sufficiently mentally and had to stop. Fish is

certainly my favorite protein. Therefore, although the mechanical

cause is still what I believe to be the major one, there could be a

complication with mercury. Most of my amalgam fillings have been

removed, but I do have 2 or 3 left from a long time ago before I knew

better. Interestingly, this renewed problem coincided with a

fractured #2 tooth being removed (my first extraction), however that

tooth had a noble metal crown and no amalgam, so I would think it a

coincidence. The #1 wisdom tooth next to the removed molar has

amalgam. I am waiting for the bone to heal now to get an implant.

I've done some oral chelation and will now do some more in the hopes

that it will help. I'll consider buying the book you

referenced. I've talked to my dentist about replacing all my mercury

fillings, but the cost and fear of the removal being done wrong has

prevented me from doing so. Now, that I have so few, it wouldn't

cost much, but would it be done correctly? I really appreciate your

providing this information.

At 09:42 PM 10/18/2006, you wrote:

>,

>This is probably the last thing you expected to hear, but consider the

>possibility that you may have a problem with mercury toxicity. With

>mercury you can experience numbness in the hands along and neurological

>symptoms and damage. In fact, this is a typical symptom.

>

>Now, the reason that I say this, is that Glucosamine Sulfate and

>MethylSulfphonylMethane are very high sulphur compounds. (it is the

>sulfur that can help heal tissues) Well, it just so happens that

>mercury, being part of the sulphydral group, is mobilized by sulphur.

>To translate, that means that high sulphur foods and/or supplements

>will MOVE mercury around, causing all sorts of mercury

>symptoms.....like numbness in the hands. It is contraindicated for

>mercury toxic people by anybody that understands chemistry and really

>knows what they are doing with regards to mercury poisoning.

>

>Consider this a distinct possibility. To learn more from the best info

>available out there, see: <http://www.noamalgam.com>http://www.noamalgam.com

>The book available at that site is a treasure trove of information and

>will teach you how to find out for sure one way or the other, if

>mercury is a problem, as well as rulling it out if it is not the

>problem.

>

>If going off of it gives you relief after awhile you have a fairly

>clear marker that mercury could be the problem. Since it takes a long

>time for nerves to heal and regenerate, this could possibly take a long

>time to notice a difference...hard to say. I am thinking if the

>difference were quick, it might be even more diagnostic. It really

>might be hard to tell this way.....but I would definitley discontinue

>both the Glucosamine and MSM until you have done more investigation on

>the mercury possibility. It could save you a lot of grief, heartache

>and illness in the long run.

>~Inga

>

>On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Brown wrote:

>

> > Hi Jim:

> >

> > I've mentioned the problem I have with an old injury in my

> > neck. Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM have improved it in the past

> > and recently it started to occasionally give numbness in the hands

> > more than usual. After hearing your experience, I increased my dose

> > and then recently ordered a tub of the powered MSM, which arrived

> > today. It is perhaps too early to tell definitively, but it seems

> > that since I've been increasing the dose the numbness that occurs in

> > my hands has worsened. It may be that it was worsening anyway and

> > that I didn't take enough to even slow it down. Today, however, I

> > took 36 gm of MSM in a drink and apart from a feeling of it going all

> > over my body, like a warm flush, the numbness in my left pinky seemed

> > to worsen yet - within hours. Perhaps new cartilage is growing and

> > pinching the nerve??? Perhaps it is healing and during a short time

> > pinching the nerve more than usual? I'm going to go off if it

> > entirely for a while and see if it gets better. I'm not looking

> > forward to the possibility of surgery on my neck. Any suggestions,

> > Jim or anyone else?

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Um...

You might want to try buffering it with food?!

Brown wrote:

>

> Hi Jim:

>

> The amount I took was 3 level tablespoons of fine powder, each having

> 12 gm = 36 gm. It has quite a bitter taste and unsettled my stomach

> for a while, but not terribly and no diarrhea or flatulence. I think

> that's the biggest dose I could take at once, BTW, I mixed it with

> several packages of EmergenC to improve the taste. There was no lip

> numbness, just a warm flushing as it absorbed into my

> bloodstream. That part was not really unpleasant. The only thing

> unpleasant is this numbness in my left 5th finger and I'm not totally

> convinced that the MSM made it worse, but it did not make it better,

> that's for certain. I'm going to cut it out for now and per Inga's

> recommendation increase oral chelation, which I haven't done for a

> while. I may go get IV chelation as there are a lot of docs around

> here who do it. I probably should have the rest of my

> amalgam/mercury fillings replaced with gold or composite, but that

> could be costly as my insurance will not pay for elective

> replacement. Thanks so much for your concern and support. It is

> greatly appreciated. I'll keep you posted.

>

>

>

> At 08:50 AM 10/19/2006, you wrote:

>

> >Dear :

> >

> >That is kinda scary. As you know, I have taken very large quantities

> >of MSM in the past and with nothing but good results. Certainly, I

> >never experienced any numbness, except that MSM did make my lips kind

> >of numb for a few seconds as I recall, nor have I ever heard or read

> >about any such effects from MSM. The warm flush sounds familiar

> >though... but I can't remember it happening for sure. I always sort of

> >dreaded the initial " hit " that I got from it, but that subsided quickly

> >and I liked the cool aftermath. I take much smaller quantities now that

> >my joints are in order (in tablet form) and my joints have been " like

> >new " for a couple of years except for a very slight elbow pain after a

> >serious tennis match that quickly goes away. I cringe to think about

> >where I would be today without MSM. Most likely, I would have an

> >artificial knee and probably would be well on my way to a hip joint. It

> >seems like about everyone that is engaged in active sports as I am and

> >at my age has had some kind of reconstructive surgery or joint

> replacement.

> >

> >As to these new developments: With what is gong on and the fact that it

> >seems to increase with more intake, my inclination would also be to

> >stop taking it for a week or two and see what happens. If the numbness

> >increases after stopping, I would think that you have proof enough that

> >MSM is not contributing... and be pretty sure that its something

> >else. Your thoughts about cartilage growth are certainly plausible

> >given my own experience.

> >

> >By the way, I just took a heaping tablespoonful out of my last pound

> >(it was the coarse grain style MSM that I never liked) so that I could

> >remember what it was like when I was doing " vast quantities " The

> >experience was not as powerful as I had recalled. The aftertaste

> >lingers a bit even after ten minutes.. no numb lips... but they were

> >somewhat enlivened... I do not mind any of it. One thing that you

> >know after taking it is that this MSM is some powerful stuff. No wonder

> >my knee and hip healed up. They were probably afraid not to. :0)

> >

> >Yes, surgery on anything really makes me cringe and anything related to

> >the spine especially does. I don't think that, at age 64, I will ever

> >let anyone cut on me again. But of course, I will always strive to

> >make my decisions in the moment and not before I am so sorry to hear

> >this news. I do wish you the best and you have my thoughts. Keep me

> >apprised.

> >

> >Kind Regards, Jim

> >

> > Brown wrote:

> >

> > > Hi Jim:

> > >

> > > I've mentioned the problem I have with an old injury in my

> > > neck. Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM have improved it in the past

> > > and recently it started to occasionally give numbness in the hands

> > > more than usual. After hearing your experience, I increased my dose

> > > and then recently ordered a tub of the powered MSM, which arrived

> > > today. It is perhaps too early to tell definitively, but it seems

> > > that since I've been increasing the dose the numbness that occurs in

> > > my hands has worsened. It may be that it was worsening anyway and

> > > that I didn't take enough to even slow it down. Today, however, I

> > > took 36 gm of MSM in a drink and apart from a feeling of it going all

> > > over my body, like a warm flush, the numbness in my left pinky seemed

> > > to worsen yet - within hours. Perhaps new cartilage is growing and

> > > pinching the nerve??? Perhaps it is healing and during a short time

> > > pinching the nerve more than usual? I'm going to go off if it

> > > entirely for a while and see if it gets better. I'm not looking

> > > forward to the possibility of surgery on my neck. Any suggestions,

> > > Jim or anyone else?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On Oct 19, 2006, at 10:04 AM, Brown wrote:

> Hi Inga:

>

> Thanks for that information. I wouldn't rule out mercury as a

> complicating factor, however the history of this problem suggests

> that it is mechanical.

,

Yes, I understand, but we are not talking about the history, rather the

cure that is trying to be implemented, you see. And I am not speaking

against MSM in general, as it does some great things. The problems that

can arise would be where there is an underlying mercury problem.

>

> I have had an MRI scan of my neck, showing damaged cartilage and

> partially blocked nerve exit points on the 6th cervical

> vertebra. This was exacerbated by a traffic accident with whiplash

> when I was 17, giving me a compression fracture of the 6th vertebra.

Oh, that's terrible.

>

> Instead of surgery, I opted for a traction device and the use of

> Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM and this combination has kept me

> mostly symptom free for about 10 years now. I also stopped

> running. I used to jog or run 5-15 miles per day, but that greatly

> exacerbates the problem.

How sad.

I have not been able to exercise for the most part of 15 years now, so

I share your feelings with the loss of something vital that you love.

>

> The doses of G/C/M were relatively small, on the order of 500 mg to

> 1.5 gm per day each. Whenever I've had symptoms, the neck traction

> device, the PRONEX, would always take them away. Usually just

> stretching and exercise would as well. Recently, a couple of months

> ago, the symptoms started increasing again. I began increasing the

> doses of G/C/M and they got worse, not better as before.

This is what makes the underlying possibility of mercury suspect to me.

> Now,

> nothing seems to take away the numbness (not the motor capacity) of

> my left-hand 5th or little finger ( " pinky " ) and the left side of the

> 4th finger, which are handled by the same nerve. Further increasing

> the dose of MSM, yesterday, seems to have made it still worse.

Again, this is what makes mercury suspect, as MSM moves mercury all

over the place, and can take it out of deep tissue stores and move it

to new places causing damage that was not there before

> This

> may or may not be a valid perception, but it is enough to make me

> want to back off the G/C/M regimen for a time. Before the dose

> increase of a few weeks ago, I could still make the numbness go away

> with the PRONEX or stretching.

>

> Because of the mechanical history, other mechanisms did not seem to

> be involved. However, I have had many mercury fillings and I do eat

> a lot of fish and have for most of my entire life, except for a 7

> year vegan/vegetarian stint, during which I became so spaced out that

> I couldn't function sufficiently mentally and had to stop.

In my heart, I could almost be a vegan or vegetarian myself, but

something that some people don't know is that people with mercury

problems tend to do very poorly on vegetarian/vegan diets..

> Fish is

> certainly my favorite protein.

Mine too, but I must say, that Ihave had to become very careful with

it. However, remember that fish is a very small item of exposure. It is

the amalgams that allow the mercury vapor to creep up into the brain

24/7...this is the real source of most problems.

> Therefore, although the mechanical

> cause is still what I believe to be the major one, there could be a

> complication with mercury. Most of my amalgam fillings have been

> removed, but I do have 2 or 3 left from a long time ago before I knew

> better.

It could be just these 2 or 3 causing continued problems. Furthermore,

if the removal was not done with very careful safety precautions, then

you most likely got huge doses of yet more mercury getting let lose in

your body. This alone cold cause lot of problems, and does for many

people.

mercury does not come out of the brains and central nervous sytem on

its own accord after amalgam removal as it does not readily cross the

blood brain barrier.

> Interestingly, this renewed problem coincided with a

> fractured #2 tooth being removed (my first extraction), however that

> tooth had a noble metal crown and no amalgam, so I would think it a

> coincidence.

Sounds like it....however, quite often, there is amalgam left lurking

under metal crowns, so you really can not rule that out for certain

without inspection of what was underneath.

> The #1 wisdom tooth next to the removed molar has

> amalgam. I am waiting for the bone to heal now to get an implant.

>

> I've done some oral chelation and will now do some more in the hopes

> that it will help.

Never, NEVER (did I say never?) do any chelation until you have ALL

the amalgam removed fro your mouth! This only moves things around while

pulling more metal out of your teeth (fillings)

> I'll consider buying the book you

> referenced. I've talked to my dentist about replacing all my mercury

> fillings, but the cost and fear of the removal being done wrong has

> prevented me from doing so.

Okay, well there are two options I know of right now, that should help

you.

One is the Jigsaw Health Foundation. As long as you fall into a certain

financial bracket ( about three times the amont of poverty levle) they

will assist you in getting the amalgams out for next to nothing....I

hear about $200 or so, but please do not quote me exactly. they are

very reasonable and will hook you up with SAFE biological dentists in

your area.

The other option is a couple of dentists in Tiajuana, if you happen to

live down in that direction. Let me know if you do and I can look up

their contact info......

> Now, that I have so few, it wouldn't cost much, but would it be done

> correctly?

As above. Even a biologic dentist in your area that is not affiliated

could probably do it properly, for probably not too much. Where do you

live? I can ask for referrals for safe dentists in you area. Do not

just have a regular dentist remove these filings without specific

precautions. Some people seem to be able to get away with it (even

though it is a BAD idea) but in your condition, I would never consider

taking the potential risk. You could get a lot worse.

> I really appreciate your

> providing this information.

It is my pleasure. I have suffered greatly from amalgam illness, and

from much study and involvement with others, tend to recognize its

earmarks, and your case certainly does ring of it.

I think you would really appreciate the material in the book. (Amalgam

Illness) Like I said, it is a treasure trove of information, even if

you end up figuring out that mercury is not your problem after

all...but at least then you would know one way or the other, and glean

some good knowledge along the way.

Feel free to contact me offline if there is anything you think I can

assist you with.

~Inga

>

>

>

> At 09:42 PM 10/18/2006, you wrote:

>

> >,

> >This is probably the last thing you expected to hear, but consider

> the

> >possibility that you may have a problem with mercury toxicity. With

> >mercury you can experience numbness in the hands along and

> neurological

> >symptoms and damage. In fact, this is a typical symptom.

> >

> >Now, the reason that I say this, is that Glucosamine Sulfate and

> >MethylSulfphonylMethane are very high sulphur compounds. (it is the

> >sulfur that can help heal tissues) Well, it just so happens that

> >mercury, being part of the sulphydral group, is mobilized by sulphur.

> >To translate, that means that high sulphur foods and/or supplements

> >will MOVE mercury around, causing all sorts of mercury

> >symptoms.....like numbness in the hands. It is contraindicated for

> >mercury toxic people by anybody that understands chemistry and really

> >knows what they are doing with regards to mercury poisoning.

> >

> >Consider this a distinct possibility. To learn more from the best

> info

> >available out there, see:

> <http://www.noamalgam.com>http://www.noamalgam.com

> >The book available at that site is a treasure trove of information

> and

> >will teach you how to find out for sure one way or the other, if

> >mercury is a problem, as well as rulling it out if it is not the

> >problem.

> >

> >If going off of it gives you relief after awhile you have a fairly

> >clear marker that mercury could be the problem. Since it takes a long

> >time for nerves to heal and regenerate, this could possibly take a

> long

> >time to notice a difference...hard to say. I am thinking if the

> >difference were quick, it might be even more diagnostic. It really

> >might be hard to tell this way.....but I would definitley discontinue

> >both the Glucosamine and MSM until you have done more investigation

> on

> >the mercury possibility. It could save you a lot of grief, heartache

> >and illness in the long run.

> >~Inga

> >

> >On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Brown wrote:

> >

> > > Hi Jim:

> > >

> > > I've mentioned the problem I have with an old injury in my

> > > neck. Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM have improved it in the

> past

> > > and recently it started to occasionally give numbness in the hands

> > > more than usual. After hearing your experience, I increased my

> dose

> > > and then recently ordered a tub of the powered MSM, which arrived

> > > today. It is perhaps too early to tell definitively, but it seems

> > > that since I've been increasing the dose the numbness that occurs

> in

> > > my hands has worsened. It may be that it was worsening anyway and

> > > that I didn't take enough to even slow it down. Today, however, I

> > > took 36 gm of MSM in a drink and apart from a feeling of it going

> all

> > > over my body, like a warm flush, the numbness in my left pinky

> seemed

> > > to worsen yet - within hours. Perhaps new cartilage is growing and

> > > pinching the nerve??? Perhaps it is healing and during a short

> time

> > > pinching the nerve more than usual? I'm going to go off if it

> > > entirely for a while and see if it gets better. I'm not looking

> > > forward to the possibility of surgery on my neck. Any suggestions,

> > > Jim or anyone else?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

This is not exactly correct information you have gotten (and the

internet, and other sources abound with it) Selenium is a specific

mineral that mercury like to displace, and so small amount of it (as it

can be toxic itself ) is important to take, but it is not a chelator

and can not remove any mercury from the brain, central nervous system

or organs in general.

So, it is good to take a small amount, but will not in and of itself

remove mercury.

~Inga

On Oct 19, 2006, at 10:29 AM, <stardora@...> wrote:

> If mercury is a problem, selenium can help remove it. 200 mcg and up,

> not to exceed 600mcg for any length of time.

>

> Re: Bulk MSM Arrived Today

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Moo:

There is definitely a limit to the amount of glucosamine sulfate that we

can handle without upset. It does play with the stomach to some

degree, but I have not had similar experiences with MSM. When I take

glucosamine, I always take an enzyme with it. Furthermore, you have

to be sure and keep your stomach flora in order... the subject of many

informed posts by Duncan Crowe and others a couple weeks ago.

Hyaluronic acid supplements are very expensive compared to these other

forms of supplements and I have never seen that much improvement from

it, but I never could afford to up the quantity. Furthermore, I have

never read anything about the repercussions of taking it in supplement

form in quantity. If you'll notice it usually comes in very small

proportions mixed with more reasonably priced supplements. I have read

that Hyaluronic acid is simply the full molecule and Glucosamine is

1/2. Another downside of glucosamine, for some, is that it is a sugar.

Dr . recently added egg shell lining to his joint

supplement formula which I also take... something new to me.

recommends eating plenty of homemade soup made with your own beef and

chicken stock... one of the cheapest forms of hyaluronic acid... sounds

like a good idea to me. I did that when I first injured my knee over

thirty years ago, not knowing the positive effects. It probably had a

lot to do with my initial recovery, but then I stopped cooking down

stocks when I remarried and not long after started having trouble with

it again. All of these organic sulfates are said to have synergistic

effects, so it is good to mix them up. You also want to eat plenty of

organic eggs... ummm... duck eggs :0)

Regards, Jim

>

> I also started on MSM & Glucosamine about a month back, hoping to

> improve an old knee injury. My fingers (which were fine before)

> started to stiffen almost immediately and my acid reflux got so bad

> life just wasn't worth living anymore. This was the only new

> supplement, and the negative symptoms stopped when I stopped taking

> them. I was hoping to keep mobile with age. Is there something else

> that'll give the same results? Does Hyal Joint do the same thing? moo

>

> Re: Bulk MSM Arrived Today

>

> ,

> This is probably the last thing you expected to hear, but consider the

> possibility that you may have a problem with mercury toxicity. With

> mercury you can experience numbness in the hands along and neurological

> symptoms and damage. In fact, this is a typical symptom.

>

> If going off of it gives you relief after awhile you have a fairly

> clear marker that mercury could be the problem. Since it takes a long

> time for nerves to heal and regenerate, this could possibly take a long

> time to notice a difference...hard to say. I am thinking if the

> difference were quick, it might be even more diagnostic. It really

> might be hard to tell this way.....but I would definitley discontinue

> both the Glucosamine and MSM until you have done more investigation on

> the mercury possibility. It could save you a lot of grief, heartache

> and illness in the long run.

> ~Inga

>

> On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Brown wrote:

>

> > Hi Jim:

> >

> >>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Inga:

I truly appreciate the great care you took to thoroughly respond to

my post. I will reply to this off line in more detail. Thanks so much.

Warm Regards,

At 12:04 PM 10/19/2006, you wrote:

>On Oct 19, 2006, at 10:04 AM, Brown wrote:

>

> > Hi Inga:

> >

> > Thanks for that information. I wouldn't rule out mercury as a

> > complicating factor, however the history of this problem suggests

> > that it is mechanical.

>,

>Yes, I understand, but we are not talking about the history, rather the

>cure that is trying to be implemented, you see. And I am not speaking

>against MSM in general, as it does some great things. The problems that

>can arise would be where there is an underlying mercury problem.

> >

> > I have had an MRI scan of my neck, showing damaged cartilage and

> > partially blocked nerve exit points on the 6th cervical

> > vertebra. This was exacerbated by a traffic accident with whiplash

> > when I was 17, giving me a compression fracture of the 6th vertebra.

>

>Oh, that's terrible.

> >

> > Instead of surgery, I opted for a traction device and the use of

> > Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM and this combination has kept me

> > mostly symptom free for about 10 years now. I also stopped

> > running. I used to jog or run 5-15 miles per day, but that greatly

> > exacerbates the problem.

>How sad.

>I have not been able to exercise for the most part of 15 years now, so

>I share your feelings with the loss of something vital that you love.

> >

> > The doses of G/C/M were relatively small, on the order of 500 mg to

> > 1.5 gm per day each. Whenever I've had symptoms, the neck traction

> > device, the PRONEX, would always take them away. Usually just

> > stretching and exercise would as well. Recently, a couple of months

> > ago, the symptoms started increasing again. I began increasing the

> > doses of G/C/M and they got worse, not better as before.

>

>This is what makes the underlying possibility of mercury suspect to me.

> > Now,

> > nothing seems to take away the numbness (not the motor capacity) of

> > my left-hand 5th or little finger ( " pinky " ) and the left side of the

> > 4th finger, which are handled by the same nerve. Further increasing

> > the dose of MSM, yesterday, seems to have made it still worse.

>

>Again, this is what makes mercury suspect, as MSM moves mercury all

>over the place, and can take it out of deep tissue stores and move it

>to new places causing damage that was not there before

> > This

> > may or may not be a valid perception, but it is enough to make me

> > want to back off the G/C/M regimen for a time. Before the dose

> > increase of a few weeks ago, I could still make the numbness go away

> > with the PRONEX or stretching.

> >

> > Because of the mechanical history, other mechanisms did not seem to

> > be involved. However, I have had many mercury fillings and I do eat

> > a lot of fish and have for most of my entire life, except for a 7

> > year vegan/vegetarian stint, during which I became so spaced out that

> > I couldn't function sufficiently mentally and had to stop.

>

>In my heart, I could almost be a vegan or vegetarian myself, but

>something that some people don't know is that people with mercury

>problems tend to do very poorly on vegetarian/vegan diets..

> > Fish is

> > certainly my favorite protein.

>Mine too, but I must say, that Ihave had to become very careful with

>it. However, remember that fish is a very small item of exposure. It is

>the amalgams that allow the mercury vapor to creep up into the brain

>24/7...this is the real source of most problems.

>

> > Therefore, although the mechanical

> > cause is still what I believe to be the major one, there could be a

> > complication with mercury. Most of my amalgam fillings have been

> > removed, but I do have 2 or 3 left from a long time ago before I knew

> > better.

>

>It could be just these 2 or 3 causing continued problems. Furthermore,

>if the removal was not done with very careful safety precautions, then

>you most likely got huge doses of yet more mercury getting let lose in

>your body. This alone cold cause lot of problems, and does for many

>people.

>

>mercury does not come out of the brains and central nervous sytem on

>its own accord after amalgam removal as it does not readily cross the

>blood brain barrier.

>

> > Interestingly, this renewed problem coincided with a

> > fractured #2 tooth being removed (my first extraction), however that

> > tooth had a noble metal crown and no amalgam, so I would think it a

> > coincidence.

>Sounds like it....however, quite often, there is amalgam left lurking

>under metal crowns, so you really can not rule that out for certain

>without inspection of what was underneath.

>

> > The #1 wisdom tooth next to the removed molar has

> > amalgam. I am waiting for the bone to heal now to get an implant.

> >

> > I've done some oral chelation and will now do some more in the hopes

> > that it will help.

>

>Never, NEVER (did I say never?) do any chelation until you have ALL

>the amalgam removed fro your mouth! This only moves things around while

>pulling more metal out of your teeth (fillings)

> > I'll consider buying the book you

> > referenced. I've talked to my dentist about replacing all my mercury

> > fillings, but the cost and fear of the removal being done wrong has

> > prevented me from doing so.

>

>Okay, well there are two options I know of right now, that should help

>you.

>One is the Jigsaw Health Foundation. As long as you fall into a certain

>financial bracket ( about three times the amont of poverty levle) they

>will assist you in getting the amalgams out for next to nothing....I

>hear about $200 or so, but please do not quote me exactly. they are

>very reasonable and will hook you up with SAFE biological dentists in

>your area.

>

>The other option is a couple of dentists in Tiajuana, if you happen to

>live down in that direction. Let me know if you do and I can look up

>their contact info......

>

> > Now, that I have so few, it wouldn't cost much, but would it be done

> > correctly?

>

>As above. Even a biologic dentist in your area that is not affiliated

>could probably do it properly, for probably not too much. Where do you

>live? I can ask for referrals for safe dentists in you area. Do not

>just have a regular dentist remove these filings without specific

>precautions. Some people seem to be able to get away with it (even

>though it is a BAD idea) but in your condition, I would never consider

>taking the potential risk. You could get a lot worse.

> > I really appreciate your

> > providing this information.

>

>It is my pleasure. I have suffered greatly from amalgam illness, and

>from much study and involvement with others, tend to recognize its

>earmarks, and your case certainly does ring of it.

>I think you would really appreciate the material in the book. (Amalgam

>Illness) Like I said, it is a treasure trove of information, even if

>you end up figuring out that mercury is not your problem after

>all...but at least then you would know one way or the other, and glean

>some good knowledge along the way.

>

>Feel free to contact me offline if there is anything you think I can

>assist you with.

>~Inga

>

> >

> >

> >

> > At 09:42 PM 10/18/2006, you wrote:

> >

> > >,

> > >This is probably the last thing you expected to hear, but consider

> > the

> > >possibility that you may have a problem with mercury toxicity. With

> > >mercury you can experience numbness in the hands along and

> > neurological

> > >symptoms and damage. In fact, this is a typical symptom.

> > >

> > >Now, the reason that I say this, is that Glucosamine Sulfate and

> > >MethylSulfphonylMethane are very high sulphur compounds. (it is the

> > >sulfur that can help heal tissues) Well, it just so happens that

> > >mercury, being part of the sulphydral group, is mobilized by sulphur.

> > >To translate, that means that high sulphur foods and/or supplements

> > >will MOVE mercury around, causing all sorts of mercury

> > >symptoms.....like numbness in the hands. It is contraindicated for

> > >mercury toxic people by anybody that understands chemistry and really

> > >knows what they are doing with regards to mercury poisoning.

> > >

> > >Consider this a distinct possibility. To learn more from the best

> > info

> > >available out there, see:

> >

> <<http://www.noamalgam.com>http://www.noamalgam.com>http://www.noamalgam.com

> > >The book available at that site is a treasure trove of information

> > and

> > >will teach you how to find out for sure one way or the other, if

> > >mercury is a problem, as well as rulling it out if it is not the

> > >problem.

> > >

> > >If going off of it gives you relief after awhile you have a fairly

> > >clear marker that mercury could be the problem. Since it takes a long

> > >time for nerves to heal and regenerate, this could possibly take a

> > long

> > >time to notice a difference...hard to say. I am thinking if the

> > >difference were quick, it might be even more diagnostic. It really

> > >might be hard to tell this way.....but I would definitley discontinue

> > >both the Glucosamine and MSM until you have done more investigation

> > on

> > >the mercury possibility. It could save you a lot of grief, heartache

> > >and illness in the long run.

> > >~Inga

> > >

> > >On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Brown wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi Jim:

> > > >

> > > > I've mentioned the problem I have with an old injury in my

> > > > neck. Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM have improved it in the

> > past

> > > > and recently it started to occasionally give numbness in the hands

> > > > more than usual. After hearing your experience, I increased my

> > dose

> > > > and then recently ordered a tub of the powered MSM, which arrived

> > > > today. It is perhaps too early to tell definitively, but it seems

> > > > that since I've been increasing the dose the numbness that occurs

> > in

> > > > my hands has worsened. It may be that it was worsening anyway and

> > > > that I didn't take enough to even slow it down. Today, however, I

> > > > took 36 gm of MSM in a drink and apart from a feeling of it going

> > all

> > > > over my body, like a warm flush, the numbness in my left pinky

> > seemed

> > > > to worsen yet - within hours. Perhaps new cartilage is growing and

> > > > pinching the nerve??? Perhaps it is healing and during a short

> > time

> > > > pinching the nerve more than usual? I'm going to go off if it

> > > > entirely for a while and see if it gets better. I'm not looking

> > > > forward to the possibility of surgery on my neck. Any suggestions,

> > > > Jim or anyone else?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi

This is just a totally uninformed WAG, but in case there is a

possible validity, I wanted to share it. I just wonder if your

finger stiffness could be related to the cartilage thickening and

because the tendons have had to shorten from the previously

diminished cartilage, its new thickness created the stiffness, due to

the now tightened tendons that hold the various finger segments together.

If this is the case, it would be temporary. This is what I imagined

might be happening to my neck, something mechanical from the

thickening of the cartilage, causing the nerve to be pinched. In

your case, at least, I'd think that the tendons should slowly stretch

and loosen over a week or so, and the stiffness should go away, if

this theory, or WAG is anywhere near correct.

Lucky for you, in your case, it is unlikely that mercury poisoning is

involved. BTW, the egg membrane that Jim mentions has shown great

results in many people. I've been taking it too. In spite of years

of daily running from the 1960's as a kid until 1997when my neck

started " acting up, " my only symptomatic joint/cartilage problem is

still my neck.

At 12:32 PM 10/19/2006, you wrote:

>Hi Moo:

>

>There is definitely a limit to the amount of glucosamine sulfate that we

>can handle without upset. It does play with the stomach to some

>degree, but I have not had similar experiences with MSM. When I take

>glucosamine, I always take an enzyme with it. Furthermore, you have

>to be sure and keep your stomach flora in order... the subject of many

>informed posts by Duncan Crowe and others a couple weeks ago.

>Hyaluronic acid supplements are very expensive compared to these other

>forms of supplements and I have never seen that much improvement from

>it, but I never could afford to up the quantity. Furthermore, I have

>never read anything about the repercussions of taking it in supplement

>form in quantity. If you'll notice it usually comes in very small

>proportions mixed with more reasonably priced supplements. I have read

>that Hyaluronic acid is simply the full molecule and Glucosamine is

>1/2. Another downside of glucosamine, for some, is that it is a sugar.

>

>Dr . recently added egg shell lining to his joint

>supplement formula which I also take... something new to me.

>recommends eating plenty of homemade soup made with your own beef and

>chicken stock... one of the cheapest forms of hyaluronic acid... sounds

>like a good idea to me. I did that when I first injured my knee over

>thirty years ago, not knowing the positive effects. It probably had a

>lot to do with my initial recovery, but then I stopped cooking down

>stocks when I remarried and not long after started having trouble with

>it again. All of these organic sulfates are said to have synergistic

>effects, so it is good to mix them up. You also want to eat plenty of

>organic eggs... ummm... duck eggs :0)

>

>Regards, Jim

>

> >

> > I also started on MSM & Glucosamine about a month back, hoping to

> > improve an old knee injury. My fingers (which were fine before)

> > started to stiffen almost immediately and my acid reflux got so bad

> > life just wasn't worth living anymore. This was the only new

> > supplement, and the negative symptoms stopped when I stopped taking

> > them. I was hoping to keep mobile with age. Is there something else

> > that'll give the same results? Does Hyal Joint do the same thing? moo

> >

> > Re: Bulk MSM Arrived Today

> >

> > ,

> > This is probably the last thing you expected to hear, but consider the

> > possibility that you may have a problem with mercury toxicity. With

> > mercury you can experience numbness in the hands along and neurological

> > symptoms and damage. In fact, this is a typical symptom.

> >

> > If going off of it gives you relief after awhile you have a fairly

> > clear marker that mercury could be the problem. Since it takes a long

> > time for nerves to heal and regenerate, this could possibly take a long

> > time to notice a difference...hard to say. I am thinking if the

> > difference were quick, it might be even more diagnostic. It really

> > might be hard to tell this way.....but I would definitley discontinue

> > both the Glucosamine and MSM until you have done more investigation on

> > the mercury possibility. It could save you a lot of grief, heartache

> > and illness in the long run.

> > ~Inga

> >

> > On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Brown wrote:

> >

> > > Hi Jim:

> > >

> > >>

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank you for all the info. I was taking 3 gms daily. Is it possible this is

too much? The finger stiffness I could handle, but the reflux was intolerable,

even with meals, with digestive enzymes, at different times of day, spread out

through the day etc. I tried taking it in the morning, but still at night had to

sit up to sleep. Perhaps some of us just can't take it. Darn. Anyway, have

started on Hyaluronic joint from AOR. Expensive, but expect good results as I

have had great results from all their products. Will let you know. Kind

regards. moo

Re: Bulk MSM Arrived Today

> >

> > ,

> > > >

> > > Hi Jim:

> > >

> > >>

> >

> >