Re: Neutraceutical/without meds . . . .

[Guest guest]

If this product has helped you at all, it isn't apparent by your

writing. You do not seem to be doing well at all. I am not interested

in anything you are selling, and certainly am not interested in your

insults to others. I am happy that your email is now in my kill file so

that I no longer have to read anything you write. :-)

hrblais wrote:

>

> I guess that Ms. SICKLES doesn't read what she sees but what she

> thinks she sees:

> " Glutathione

>

[Guest guest]

Wow....I am very surprised to see the response you've all had to

rhblais and the post on something that has helped them and their

family regain their health. So, what if it is a direct/network

marketing platform? We are all taking in the information offered and

using it as needed, and if not needed then dismiss.

I am surprised to see how much you've (sorry but this word fits the

most) attacked rhblais for sharing a personal story. I dont see how

you cannot see where their was an inspirational story in the words

used to describe the changes from before to current.

There was a request for information on the product, and it was given

actually 'over' given. I read the posts on here for informational

purposes and use what applies to me, and dismiss the rest. I dont

judge or critisize people for sharing.

I really hope that this is a specific instance of behavior and not a

common practice here. I've found some very interesting articles and

conversations/even discussions. I'd like to continue to do so.

I just wanted to voice my opinion, since it is apparent that

comments and words are thrown around frivilously without the

consideration of how others will take their abrupt and down right

rude comments and remarks.

We are all individual and specific to our own means of health...

lets make our own decisions without judgements or contenment against

others?

I hope everyone's day brings about health and well being.

[Guest guest]

,

When you have been on various lists over the years that

have been flooded with this stuff (look at the various

health related Usenet discussion archives for

examples), you tend to try to nip it in the bud so to

speak. This product has been around since 1996. They've

tweaked the formula and even came out with a " Platinum "

version, but it's still the same sales pitch. I think

we are all open to discussions on undenatured whey and

glutathione increase, but I don't care to have that

discussion with someone that has a financial interest

in selling Immunocal. If you do then great. :-)

I put the guy in my kill file as the info being

provided to the list was pretty much just sales lit

I've seen in countless posts. The people that tell all

these great stories about Immunocal are making money

off it. That taints any claims they make in my eyes.

Then factor in that it is way over-priced and sold via

a sleazy MLM scheme. Next realize that some of the

claims are just slightly reworded tales that other

pushers of the product have pitched for years... and

lastly such sales promotions are directly against the

list charter here.

I guess I have a personal thing against MLMs. So that

made me a little more aggressive about it. Sorry guys.

I've seen so many people get consumed by MLMs and lose

money in them. Additionally one of the guys I work with

on projects sells Mannatech, Immunocal, a few exotic

juices, and who knows what else. He always finds a way

to work the pitch in. One of our co-workers bought into

it initially, but now takes a product called " RenewPro "

and says he thinks he gets a little benefit (he claims

to have CFS) from them but could not tell any

difference when he switched.

Gaston

--- <kplus4@...> wrote:

> Wow....I am very surprised to see the response you've

> all had to

> rhblais and the post on something that has helped

> them and their

> family regain their health. So, what if it is a

> direct/network

> marketing platform? We are all taking in the

> information offered and

> using it as needed, and if not needed then dismiss.

>

> I am surprised to see how much you've (sorry but this

> word fits the

> most) attacked rhblais for sharing a personal story.

> I dont see how

> you cannot see where their was an inspirational story

> in the words

> used to describe the changes from before to current.

>

> There was a request for information on the product,

> and it was given

> actually 'over' given. I read the posts on here for

> informational

> purposes and use what applies to me, and dismiss the

> rest. I dont

> judge or critisize people for sharing.

>

> I really hope that this is a specific instance of

> behavior and not a

> common practice here. I've found some very

> interesting articles and

> conversations/even discussions. I'd like to continue

> to do so.

>

> I just wanted to voice my opinion, since it is

> apparent that

> comments and words are thrown around frivilously

> without the

> consideration of how others will take their abrupt

> and down right

> rude comments and remarks.

>

> We are all individual and specific to our own means

> of health...

> lets make our own decisions without judgements or

> contenment against

> others?

>

> I hope everyone's day brings about health and well

> being.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi:

I've just caught up and read all the posts on this subject. It is

clear that the negative response to the posts was due to one and only

one thing: MLM. Although many products, such as Immunocow, sold by

this method are good products per se, they are ALWAYS far more

expensive than their alternatives. This extreme expense, along with

other issues (hype, dogma, deception), makes them not good

products. They also ALWAYS come with tons of highly suspect

testimonials, exaggerated claims, and some sort of " rah-rah-rah "

dogma - usually none of which that can be verified or substantiated

to the full extent of the claims.

I don't know whether your actions can be construed as solicitation,

but personally, I'd prefer that if any MLM product be discussed here,

it be clearly stated " this is an MLM product " (I want to discuss with

the group) beforehand, and here is an alternative (non-MLM)

product. As Gaston has pointed out,

<http://www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm>RenewNow,

among many others (see Duncan's website, link below), is much less

expensive, is a comparable product (from a glutathione increase

perspective) and it is not MLM, available from many sources and his

friend had equal results as with your overpriced product. Your

product, in my opinion, is stealing money from people (including you)

because of its MLM marketing scheme. I'm with Gaston, MLM is really

bad, I almost want to call it evil. Let us make no mistake, it is

MLM, not its sales people, that is evil. On principle I will not

purchase MLM products. There are many good whey-based glutathione

enhancing products on the market.

As Duncan has so skillfully pointed out, you yourself are personally

losing out by taking this product. It is not a cure-all and the

money you are wasting on it could be applied to other supplements

that you clearly need. I suggest you read our resident whey expert's

<http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html>website

on this topic. He compares products in which he has no financial

interest. In addition, his advice and experience has helped many on

this group and most, if not all of us, greatly respect him. As you

can see, Duncan treated you with great respect. You can personally

benefit by following the link above as well.

[Guest guest]

:

Great post... and I heartily agree with your every point.

Regards, Jim

Brown wrote:

> Hi:

>

> I've just caught up and read all the posts on this subject. It is

> clear that the negative response to the posts was due to one and only

> one thing: MLM. Although many products, such as Immunocow, sold by

> this method are good products per se, they are ALWAYS far more

> expensive than their alternatives. This extreme expense, along with

> other issues (hype, dogma, deception), makes them not good

> products. They also ALWAYS come with tons of highly suspect

> testimonials, exaggerated claims, and some sort of " rah-rah-rah "

> dogma - usually none of which that can be verified or substantiated

> to the full extent of the claims.

>

> I don't know whether your actions can be construed as solicitation,

> but personally, I'd prefer that if any MLM product be discussed here,

> it be clearly stated " this is an MLM product " (I want to discuss with

> the group) beforehand, and here is an alternative (non-MLM)

> product. As Gaston has pointed out,

> <http://www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm

>

<http://www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm>>RenewNow,

>

> among many others (see Duncan's website, link below), is much less

> expensive, is a comparable product (from a glutathione increase

> perspective) and it is not MLM, available from many sources and his

> friend had equal results as with your overpriced product. Your

> product, in my opinion, is stealing money from people (including you)

> because of its MLM marketing scheme. I'm with Gaston, MLM is really

> bad, I almost want to call it evil. Let us make no mistake, it is

> MLM, not its sales people, that is evil. On principle I will not

> purchase MLM products. There are many good whey-based glutathione

> enhancing products on the market.

>

> As Duncan has so skillfully pointed out, you yourself are personally

> losing out by taking this product. It is not a cure-all and the

> money you are wasting on it could be applied to other supplements

> that you clearly need. I suggest you read our resident whey expert's

> <http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html

> <http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html>>website

> on this topic. He compares products in which he has no financial

> interest. In addition, his advice and experience has helped many on

> this group and most, if not all of us, greatly respect him. As you

> can see, Duncan treated you with great respect. You can personally

> benefit by following the link above as well.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

what is MLM? Thanks, Jess

Re: Neutraceutical/without meds . . . .

:

Great post... and I heartily agree with your every point.

Regards, Jim

Brown wrote:

> Hi:

>

> I've just caught up and read all the posts on this subject. It is

> clear that the negative response to the posts was due to one and only

> one thing: MLM. Although many products, such as Immunocow, sold by

> this method are good products per se, they are ALWAYS far more

> expensive than their alternatives. This extreme expense, along with

> other issues (hype, dogma, deception), makes them not good

> products. They also ALWAYS come with tons of highly suspect

> testimonials, exaggerated claims, and some sort of " rah-rah-rah "

> dogma - usually none of which that can be verified or substantiated

> to the full extent of the claims.

>

> I don't know whether your actions can be construed as solicitation,

> but personally, I'd prefer that if any MLM product be discussed here,

> it be clearly stated " this is an MLM product " (I want to discuss with

> the group) beforehand, and here is an alternative (non-MLM)

> product. As Gaston has pointed out,

> <http://www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm

>

<http://www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm>>Renew

Now,

>

> among many others (see Duncan's website, link below), is much less

> expensive, is a comparable product (from a glutathione increase

> perspective) and it is not MLM, available from many sources and his

> friend had equal results as with your overpriced product. Your

> product, in my opinion, is stealing money from people (including you)

> because of its MLM marketing scheme. I'm with Gaston, MLM is really

> bad, I almost want to call it evil. Let us make no mistake, it is

> MLM, not its sales people, that is evil. On principle I will not

> purchase MLM products. There are many good whey-based glutathione

> enhancing products on the market.

>

> As Duncan has so skillfully pointed out, you yourself are personally

> losing out by taking this product. It is not a cure-all and the

> money you are wasting on it could be applied to other supplements

> that you clearly need. I suggest you read our resident whey expert's

> <http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html

> <http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html>>website

> on this topic. He compares products in which he has no financial

> interest. In addition, his advice and experience has helped many on

> this group and most, if not all of us, greatly respect him. As you

> can see, Duncan treated you with great respect. You can personally

> benefit by following the link above as well.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jess:

It is " multi-level marketing, " a scheme whereby you recruit people to

sell products as well as selling them yourself. If a person you

recruit recruits another person, you profit by all the people you

recruit and by all the people that they recruit and on down the

line. It used to be called " pyramid marketing, " but certain facets

of that scheme were made illegal and that name has a bad

meaning. Amway and Herbalife are two of the biggest MLM

companies. Now, the number of levels and the way a product is marked

up are somewhat controlled by the law.

Many very good products (in their own right) are sold this way, but

the price is usually 5X to 10X the market price. The products are

usually packaged and sold with a gimmick that makes them look like

they have a special set of features that makes them worth that much -

like research on patented medicines or neutraceuticals, for

example. They are also often packaged so that it looks like you're

getting more than you really are - such as the individual packets

that Immunocow comes in.

Unfortunately, there is much less incentive to do research on

products that don't have an extremely high profit margin. That

margin pays for the research and promotion to research groups. It

does not mean that other products, not tested by research (especially

with equal chemical ingredients) do not work the same or even

better. Many times, unlike with pharmaceuticals, MLM companies with

neutraceuticals for sale sponsor research that is not as well done

and may not be statistically significant, as there is no regulation

and they rarely hire competent scientists.

I would admit that my dislike of MLM is a prejudice, but with good

reasons that I mentioned in my last email and embellished here. I

just really don't like being " ripped off " or getting into a dogmatic

fervor about one product being the answer to all the world's

ills. As you can see from the recent email, our friend is still

ardently trying to sell us this product. Be aware that there is a

financial interest and anything said is suspect and out of the policy

scope of this group on SPAM.

At 07:13 AM 12/2/2006, you wrote:

>what is MLM? Thanks, Jess

> Re: Neutraceutical/without meds . . . .

>

>:

>

>Great post... and I heartily agree with your every point.

>

>Regards, Jim

>

> Brown wrote:

>

> > Hi:

> >

> > I've just caught up and read all the posts on this subject. It is

> > clear that the negative response to the posts was due to one and only

> > one thing: MLM. Although many products, such as Immunocow, sold by

> > this method are good products per se, they are ALWAYS far more

> > expensive than their alternatives. This extreme expense, along with

> > other issues (hype, dogma, deception), makes them not good

> > products. They also ALWAYS come with tons of highly suspect

> > testimonials, exaggerated claims, and some sort of " rah-rah-rah "

> > dogma - usually none of which that can be verified or substantiated

> > to the full extent of the claims.

> >

> > I don't know whether your actions can be construed as solicitation,

> > but personally, I'd prefer that if any MLM product be discussed here,

> > it be clearly stated " this is an MLM product " (I want to discuss with

> > the group) beforehand, and here is an alternative (non-MLM)

> > product. As Gaston has pointed out,

> >

>

<<http://www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm>http://ww\

w.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm

> >

><http://www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm>>Renew

>Now,

> >

> > among many others (see Duncan's website, link below), is much less

> > expensive, is a comparable product (from a glutathione increase

> > perspective) and it is not MLM, available from many sources and his

> > friend had equal results as with your overpriced product. Your

> > product, in my opinion, is stealing money from people (including you)

> > because of its MLM marketing scheme. I'm with Gaston, MLM is really

> > bad, I almost want to call it evil. Let us make no mistake, it is

> > MLM, not its sales people, that is evil. On principle I will not

> > purchase MLM products. There are many good whey-based glutathione

> > enhancing products on the market.

> >

> > As Duncan has so skillfully pointed out, you yourself are personally

> > losing out by taking this product. It is not a cure-all and the

> > money you are wasting on it could be applied to other supplements

> > that you clearly need. I suggest you read our resident whey expert's

> >

>

<<http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html>http://members.shaw\

..ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html

> > <http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html>>website

> > on this topic. He compares products in which he has no financial

> > interest. In addition, his advice and experience has helped many on

> > this group and most, if not all of us, greatly respect him. As you

> > can see, Duncan treated you with great respect. You can personally

> > benefit by following the link above as well.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Jess:

It is " multi-level marketing, " a scheme whereby you recruit people to

sell products as well as selling them yourself. If a person you

recruit recruits another person, you profit by all the people you

recruit and by all the people that they recruit and on down the

line. It used to be called " pyramid marketing, " but certain facets

of that scheme were made illegal and that name has a bad

meaning. Amway and Herbalife are two of the biggest MLM

companies. Now, the number of levels and the way a product is marked

up are somewhat controlled by the law.

Many very good products (in their own right) are sold this way, but

the price is usually 5X to 10X the market price. The products are

usually packaged and sold with a gimmick that makes them look like

they have a special set of features that makes them worth that much -

like research on patented medicines or neutraceuticals, for

example. They are also often packaged so that it looks like you're

getting more than you really are - such as the individual packets

that Immunocow comes in.

Unfortunately, there is much less incentive to do research on

products that don't have an extremely high profit margin. That

margin pays for the research and promotion to research groups. It

does not mean that other products, not tested by research (especially

with equal chemical ingredients) do not work the same or even

better. Many times, unlike with pharmaceuticals, MLM companies with

neutraceuticals for sale sponsor research that is not as well done

and may not be statistically significant, as there is no regulation

and they rarely hire competent scientists.

I would admit that my dislike of MLM is a prejudice, but with good

reasons that I mentioned in my last email and embellished here. I

just really don't like being " ripped off " or getting into a dogmatic

fervor about one product being the answer to all the world's

ills. As you can see from the recent email, our friend is still

ardently trying to sell us this product. Be aware that there is a

financial interest and anything said is suspect and out of the policy

scope of this group on SPAM.

At 07:13 AM 12/2/2006, you wrote:

>what is MLM? Thanks, Jess

> Re: Neutraceutical/without meds . . . .

>

>:

>

>Great post... and I heartily agree with your every point.

>

>Regards, Jim

>

> Brown wrote:

>

> > Hi:

> >

> > I've just caught up and read all the posts on this subject. It is

> > clear that the negative response to the posts was due to one and only

> > one thing: MLM. Although many products, such as Immunocow, sold by

> > this method are good products per se, they are ALWAYS far more

> > expensive than their alternatives. This extreme expense, along with

> > other issues (hype, dogma, deception), makes them not good

> > products. They also ALWAYS come with tons of highly suspect

> > testimonials, exaggerated claims, and some sort of " rah-rah-rah "

> > dogma - usually none of which that can be verified or substantiated

> > to the full extent of the claims.

> >

> > I don't know whether your actions can be construed as solicitation,

> > but personally, I'd prefer that if any MLM product be discussed here,

> > it be clearly stated " this is an MLM product " (I want to discuss with

> > the group) beforehand, and here is an alternative (non-MLM)

> > product. As Gaston has pointed out,

> >

>

<<http://www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm>http://ww\

w.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm

> >

><http://www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm>>Renew

>Now,

> >

> > among many others (see Duncan's website, link below), is much less

> > expensive, is a comparable product (from a glutathione increase

> > perspective) and it is not MLM, available from many sources and his

> > friend had equal results as with your overpriced product. Your

> > product, in my opinion, is stealing money from people (including you)

> > because of its MLM marketing scheme. I'm with Gaston, MLM is really

> > bad, I almost want to call it evil. Let us make no mistake, it is

> > MLM, not its sales people, that is evil. On principle I will not

> > purchase MLM products. There are many good whey-based glutathione

> > enhancing products on the market.

> >

> > As Duncan has so skillfully pointed out, you yourself are personally

> > losing out by taking this product. It is not a cure-all and the

> > money you are wasting on it could be applied to other supplements

> > that you clearly need. I suggest you read our resident whey expert's

> >

>

<<http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html>http://members.shaw\

..ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html

> > <http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html>>website

> > on this topic. He compares products in which he has no financial

> > interest. In addition, his advice and experience has helped many on

> > this group and most, if not all of us, greatly respect him. As you

> > can see, Duncan treated you with great respect. You can personally

> > benefit by following the link above as well.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info . I agree though sometimes their products are good.

But too many people have to make money off the sale. Jess

Re: Neutraceutical/without meds . . . .

>

>:

>

>Great post... and I heartily agree with your every point.

>

>Regards, Jim

>

> Brown wrote:

>

> > Hi:

> >

> > I've just caught up and read all the posts on this subject. It is

> > clear that the negative response to the posts was due to one and only

> > one thing: MLM. Although many products, such as Immunocow, sold by

> > this method are good products per se, they are ALWAYS far more

> > expensive than their alternatives. This extreme expense, along with

> > other issues (hype, dogma, deception), makes them not good

> > products. They also ALWAYS come with tons of highly suspect

> > testimonials, exaggerated claims, and some sort of " rah-rah-rah "

> > dogma - usually none of which that can be verified or substantiated

> > to the full extent of the claims.

> >

> > I don't know whether your actions can be construed as solicitation,

> > but personally, I'd prefer that if any MLM product be discussed here,

> > it be clearly stated " this is an MLM product " (I want to discuss with

> > the group) beforehand, and here is an alternative (non-MLM)

> > product. As Gaston has pointed out,

> >

>

<<http://www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm>http:

//www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm

> >

><http://www.evolutionhealth.com/WheyProtien/Renewpro-whey_protein.htm>>Re

new

>Now,

> >

> > among many others (see Duncan's website, link below), is much less

> > expensive, is a comparable product (from a glutathione increase

> > perspective) and it is not MLM, available from many sources and his

> > friend had equal results as with your overpriced product. Your

> > product, in my opinion, is stealing money from people (including you)

> > because of its MLM marketing scheme. I'm with Gaston, MLM is really

> > bad, I almost want to call it evil. Let us make no mistake, it is

> > MLM, not its sales people, that is evil. On principle I will not

> > purchase MLM products. There are many good whey-based glutathione

> > enhancing products on the market.

> >

> > As Duncan has so skillfully pointed out, you yourself are personally

> > losing out by taking this product. It is not a cure-all and the

> > money you are wasting on it could be applied to other supplements

> > that you clearly need. I suggest you read our resident whey expert's

> >

>

<<http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html>http://members.

shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html

> > <http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html>>website

> > on this topic. He compares products in which he has no financial

> > interest. In addition, his advice and experience has helped many on

> > this group and most, if not all of us, greatly respect him. As you

> > can see, Duncan treated you with great respect. You can personally

> > benefit by following the link above as well.

> >

> >

> >

> >