Re: Re: Greentealovers Occasional Newsletter -- no mention of fluoride

[Guest guest]

Fluorosis from tea? If this is so, then why do the British have such

bad teeth?

I did a little checking, and the cases where fluorosis was indicated

from tea use seemed to implicate large doses of instant or 'brick' tea

(the water from the latter is evidentially used to cook with as well in

some cultures) and high altitude (evidentially hypoxia aggravates

fluorosis). Also, the actual amount of fluorine ingested from tea seems

to vary wildly depending on which study you look at.

Not to mention the various brewing methods aren't mentioned (I don't

boil my water for hot tea, I just heat it to around 170deg F). For iced

tea, I just put it in a bottle and let it sit overnight. I suspect that

the high heat that releases tannins also releases fluoride (however, I

admit this is speculation on my part).

Seems to me if you're not drinking a lot of fluoridated water and/or not

using fluoridated toothpaste (I don't), you don't have to worry about

fluorosis from tea.

Dave Narby

Duncan Crow wrote:

>

> athan,

>

> Gooogle (fluorosis tea alzheimer's) for details of how tea

> drinking has been associated with disease.

>

> Tea contains the highest concentrations of fluoride of any plant

> known. It's even worse with aluminum, which is prevalent and

> which gives the toxin synergy.

>

> Duncan

>

> > Posted by: " Peizer " greentealover2000@...

> <mailto:greentealover2000%40>

> > greentealover2000 Date: Sat Jul 1, 2006 11:10 am (PDT)

> >

> > http://greentealovers.com/greentealoversnewsletter-may.htm

> <http://greentealovers.com/greentealoversnewsletter-may.htm>

> > In this issue:

> > - Green Tea May Help Explain Asian Paradox

> > - Help Keep Skin Cancer Away

> > - How Green Tea May Block Cancer

> > - Benefits and Risks of Tea and Coffee

> > - Green Tea Blocks HIV in Test Tubes

> > - Drink Green Tea While You're Pregnant?

>

>

--

This is your brain on politics:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm

Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years.

[Guest guest]

> Posted by: " Dave Narby " dnarby@... dnarby

> Date: Sun Jul 2, 2006 12:17 pm (PDT)

>

> Fluorosis from tea? If this is so, then why do the British have such

> bad teeth?

The British have such bad teeth partly because fluorosis weakens

teeth and bones. There's a huge body of data on fluorosis alone

but it doesn't end there because fluoride is such a general toxin

even at much lower doses than what causes fluorosis.

Duncan

[Guest guest]

> Posted by: " a1thighmaster " thighmaster@... a1thighmaster

> Date: Mon Jul 3, 2006 9:53 pm (PDT)

>

> Dental fluorosis from tea drinking is unlikely. Dental fluorosis is a

> condition that results from the intake of too much fluoride during the

> period of tooth development (birth to about age 6).

I agree Celeste, but the main causes worldwide of skeletal

fluorosis in all ages is fluoridated water and tea.

> Also, before fluorosis progresses to the point of weakening bones

> there are usually other symptoms.

Of course fluoride causes other symptoms, it's such a potent

toxin.

I'd like to point out that a Gooogle search details fluorosis in

response to to tea drinking very well. Note that it is very

common and it even has been documented as occurring from drinking

instant tea. The first link speaks volumes.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en & as_qdr=all & q=fluorosis+tea+refer

ences & meta=

.... or just Goooogle (fluorosis tea references)

Hey, I like tea too, but the data gives me enough pause to escape

fluorosis. Besides, fluoride doesn't harden teeth to cavities

anyway, and it never did.

Duncan

[Guest guest]

Actually Duncan, tea from fluorosis has ONLY been implicated from

drinking instant tea - and LOTS OF IT.

Too much of a good thing (and it's debatable whether instant tea is a

good thing) is still too much.

Duncan Crow wrote:

>

> > Posted by: " a1thighmaster " thighmaster@...

> <mailto:thighmaster%40hawaii.rr.com> a1thighmaster

> > Date: Mon Jul 3, 2006 9:53 pm (PDT)

> >

> > Dental fluorosis from tea drinking is unlikely. Dental fluorosis is a

> > condition that results from the intake of too much fluoride during the

> > period of tooth development (birth to about age 6).

>

> I agree Celeste, but the main causes worldwide of skeletal

> fluorosis in all ages is fluoridated water and tea.

>

> > Also, before fluorosis progresses to the point of weakening bones

> > there are usually other symptoms.

>

> Of course fluoride causes other symptoms, it's such a potent

> toxin.

>

> I'd like to point out that a Gooogle search details fluorosis in

> response to to tea drinking very well. Note that it is very

> common and it even has been documented as occurring from drinking

> instant tea. The first link speaks volumes.

>

> http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en & as_qdr=all & q=fluorosis+tea+refer

> <http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en & as_qdr=all & q=fluorosis+tea+refer>

> ences & meta=

>

> ... or just Goooogle (fluorosis tea references)

>

> Hey, I like tea too, but the data gives me enough pause to escape

> fluorosis. Besides, fluoride doesn't harden teeth to cavities

> anyway, and it never did.

>

> Duncan

>

>

--

This is your brain on politics:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm

Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years.

[Guest guest]

Hmm... That makes sense. I wonder what the per capita intake of tea is?

Also, it's interesting that if this is the case, that the British can't

get their tea water HOT enough... While the Chinese just heat their

water moderately. Can't speak to knowing whether or not the Chinese

have better or worse teeth than economically similar nations that don't

drink a lot of tea.

Unfortunately, I think we need bigger and better studies to solve this.

Duncan Crow wrote:

>

> > Posted by: " Dave Narby " dnarby@... <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com>

> dnarby

> > Date: Sun Jul 2, 2006 12:17 pm (PDT)

> >

> > Fluorosis from tea? If this is so, then why do the British have such

> > bad teeth?

>

> The British have such bad teeth partly because fluorosis weakens

> teeth and bones. There's a huge body of data on fluorosis alone

> but it doesn't end there because fluoride is such a general toxin

> even at much lower doses than what causes fluorosis.

>

> Duncan

>

>

--

This is your brain on politics:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm

Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years.

[Guest guest]

> Posted by: " Dave Narby " dnarby@... dnarby

> Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:42 pm (PDT)

>

> Actually Duncan, tea from fluorosis has ONLY been implicated from

> drinking instant tea - and LOTS OF IT.

Actually Dave, your contention is unsupported by the research;

brick tea has long been known to cause skeletal fluorosis, longer

than instant tea. Here are 197 cites from PubMed:

http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh

Similarly, a Goooogle search ( " Brick tea " " skeletal fluorosis " )

turns up plenty of information on it:

http://tinyurl.com/mbttu

http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm has a few references

including a couple to the powerful synergy that occurs in the

presence of aluminum, a very plentiful element.

In " Brick tea fluoride as a main source of adult fluorosis "

published in Food Chem Toxicol. in 2003 quotes:

" The adult daily fluoride intake reached 12 mg, of which 99%

originated from the brick tea-containing foods. The positive rate

of clinical symptoms by physical examination was 89%;

furthermore, 42 of the 111 subjects were diagnosed by X-ray. The

positive examination rate was 83%. Although the osteosclerosis-

type skeletal fluorosis (overall increased bone matrix density)

affected 74%, arthropathy and arthritis affected a significant

number of the patients, resulting in functional disability. The

results suggest that this brick tea-type fluorosis had even more

severe adverse effects on human health compared with both the

water-type and coal combustion-type fluorosis that occurred in

other areas of China. "

Note that skeletal fluorosis is only one manifestation of the

degneration that fluoride causes in chronic brick tea drinkers;

most of this damage relates to chronic oxidative stress as

fluorine is a very potent oxidizer and toxin.

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

Hi:

This makes me want to stop drinking tea, except herbal teas. I guess

one can grow the tea plant in soil that does not contain fluoride.

Once one is diagnosed with fluorosis, is there a simple way to remove

fluoride from the body? (like EDTA chelation for heavy metals) My

understanding is that the only way to remove it is to stop exposure

and it will slowly come out of the bones. There is no method for

removing it like there is for heavy metals. Does anyone have other

information?

At 11:18 AM 7/13/2006, you wrote:

> > Posted by: " Dave Narby " <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com>dnarby@... dnarby

> > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:42 pm (PDT)

> >

> > Actually Duncan, tea from fluorosis has ONLY been implicated from

> > drinking instant tea - and LOTS OF IT.

>

>Actually Dave, your contention is unsupported by the research;

>brick tea has long been known to cause skeletal fluorosis, longer

>than instant tea. Here are 197 cites from PubMed:

><http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh>http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh

>

>Similarly, a Goooogle search ( " Brick tea " " skeletal fluorosis " )

>turns up plenty of information on it:

><http://tinyurl.com/mbttu>http://tinyurl.com/mbttu

>

>http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm has a few references

>including a couple to the powerful synergy that occurs in the

>presence of aluminum, a very plentiful element.

>

>In " Brick tea fluoride as a main source of adult fluorosis "

>published in Food Chem Toxicol. in 2003 quotes:

>

> " The adult daily fluoride intake reached 12 mg, of which 99%

>originated from the brick tea-containing foods. The positive rate

>of clinical symptoms by physical examination was 89%;

>furthermore, 42 of the 111 subjects were diagnosed by X-ray. The

>positive examination rate was 83%. Although the osteosclerosis-

>type skeletal fluorosis (overall increased bone matrix density)

>affected 74%, arthropathy and arthritis affected a significant

>number of the patients, resulting in functional disability. The

>results suggest that this brick tea-type fluorosis had even more

>severe adverse effects on human health compared with both the

>water-type and coal combustion-type fluorosis that occurred in

>other areas of China. "

>

>Note that skeletal fluorosis is only one manifestation of the

>degneration that fluoride causes in chronic brick tea drinkers;

>most of this damage relates to chronic oxidative stress as

>fluorine is a very potent oxidizer and toxin.

>

>Duncan Crow

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok...

But we don't drink brick tea here.

http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm

It's mostly consumed in just a few provinces in China and in parts of Tibet.

Duncan Crow wrote:

>

> > Posted by: " Dave Narby " dnarby@... <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com>

> dnarby

> > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:42 pm (PDT)

> >

> > Actually Duncan, tea from fluorosis has ONLY been implicated from

> > drinking instant tea - and LOTS OF IT.

>

> Actually Dave, your contention is unsupported by the research;

> brick tea has long been known to cause skeletal fluorosis, longer

> than instant tea. Here are 197 cites from PubMed:

> http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh <http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh>

>

> Similarly, a Goooogle search ( " Brick tea " " skeletal fluorosis " )

> turns up plenty of information on it:

> http://tinyurl.com/mbttu <http://tinyurl.com/mbttu>

>

> http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm

> <http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm> has a few references

> including a couple to the powerful synergy that occurs in the

> presence of aluminum, a very plentiful element.

>

> In " Brick tea fluoride as a main source of adult fluorosis "

> published in Food Chem Toxicol. in 2003 quotes:

>

> " The adult daily fluoride intake reached 12 mg, of which 99%

> originated from the brick tea-containing foods. The positive rate

> of clinical symptoms by physical examination was 89%;

> furthermore, 42 of the 111 subjects were diagnosed by X-ray. The

> positive examination rate was 83%. Although the osteosclerosis-

> type skeletal fluorosis (overall increased bone matrix density)

> affected 74%, arthropathy and arthritis affected a significant

> number of the patients, resulting in functional disability. The

> results suggest that this brick tea-type fluorosis had even more

> severe adverse effects on human health compared with both the

> water-type and coal combustion-type fluorosis that occurred in

> other areas of China. "

>

> Note that skeletal fluorosis is only one manifestation of the

> degneration that fluoride causes in chronic brick tea drinkers;

> most of this damage relates to chronic oxidative stress as

> fluorine is a very potent oxidizer and toxin.

>

> Duncan Crow

>

>

--

This is your brain on politics:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm

Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years.

[Guest guest]

So, I am wondering, does Green Tea have some of the same problem?

Also, I am surprised that a plant based fluoride has that much

measurable effect.

I wonder what Dr. Wallach would have to say about that one.

Dave Narby wrote:

> Ok...

>

> But we don't drink brick tea here.

>

> http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm

> <http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm>

>

> It's mostly consumed in just a few provinces in China and in parts of

> Tibet.

>

> Duncan Crow wrote:

> >

> > > Posted by: " Dave Narby " dnarby@...

> <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com> <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com>

> > dnarby

> > > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:42 pm (PDT)

> > >

> > > Actually Duncan, tea from fluorosis has ONLY been implicated from

> > > drinking instant tea - and LOTS OF IT.

> >

> > Actually Dave, your contention is unsupported by the research;

> > brick tea has long been known to cause skeletal fluorosis, longer

> > than instant tea. Here are 197 cites from PubMed:

> > http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh <http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh>

> <http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh <http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh>>

> >

> > Similarly, a Goooogle search ( " Brick tea " " skeletal fluorosis " )

> > turns up plenty of information on it:

> > http://tinyurl.com/mbttu <http://tinyurl.com/mbttu>

> <http://tinyurl.com/mbttu <http://tinyurl.com/mbttu>>

> >

> > http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm

> <http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm>

> > <http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm

> <http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm>> has a few references

> > including a couple to the powerful synergy that occurs in the

> > presence of aluminum, a very plentiful element.

> >

> > In " Brick tea fluoride as a main source of adult fluorosis "

> > published in Food Chem Toxicol. in 2003 quotes:

> >

> > " The adult daily fluoride intake reached 12 mg, of which 99%

> > originated from the brick tea-containing foods. The positive rate

> > of clinical symptoms by physical examination was 89%;

> > furthermore, 42 of the 111 subjects were diagnosed by X-ray. The

> > positive examination rate was 83%. Although the osteosclerosis-

> > type skeletal fluorosis (overall increased bone matrix density)

> > affected 74%, arthropathy and arthritis affected a significant

> > number of the patients, resulting in functional disability. The

> > results suggest that this brick tea-type fluorosis had even more

> > severe adverse effects on human health compared with both the

> > water-type and coal combustion-type fluorosis that occurred in

> > other areas of China. "

> >

> > Note that skeletal fluorosis is only one manifestation of the

> > degneration that fluoride causes in chronic brick tea drinkers;

> > most of this damage relates to chronic oxidative stress as

> > fluorine is a very potent oxidizer and toxin.

> >

> > Duncan Crow

> >

> >

>

> --

> This is your brain on politics:

>

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm

> <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm>

>

> Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi:

All normal tea, other than herbal tea, including green, oolong,

jasmine, black, Earl Grey, etc. comes from the tea

plant. Fermentation and other processing steps are the main

differences. The tea plant itself has an affinity for fluoride in

the soil and concentrates it within the tea plant. Growing

conditions, soil fluoride content, age of the plant when harvested

and processing all can affect fluoride quantity in the tea. The

point is, all tea based on the tea plant has fluoride and a fair

amount of it unless it was grown in fluoride depleted soil with

unfluoridated water.

At 07:38 AM 7/14/2006, you wrote:

>So, I am wondering, does Green Tea have some of the same problem?

>

>Also, I am surprised that a plant based fluoride has that much

>measurable effect.

>I wonder what Dr. Wallach would have to say about that one.

>

>Dave Narby wrote:

>

> > Ok...

> >

> > But we don't drink brick tea here.

> >

> >

>

<http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm>http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm

>

> > <http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm>

> >

> > It's mostly consumed in just a few provinces in China and in parts of

> > Tibet.

> >

> > Duncan Crow wrote:

> > >

> > > > Posted by: " Dave Narby " <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com>dnarby@...

> > <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com> <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com>

> > > dnarby

> > > > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:42 pm (PDT)

> > > >

> > > > Actually Duncan, tea from fluorosis has ONLY been implicated from

> > > > drinking instant tea - and LOTS OF IT.

> > >

> > > Actually Dave, your contention is unsupported by the research;

> > > brick tea has long been known to cause skeletal fluorosis, longer

> > > than instant tea. Here are 197 cites from PubMed:

> > > <http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh>http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh

> <http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh>

> > <<http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh>http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh

> <http://tinyurl.com/hn8oh>>

> > >

> > > Similarly, a Goooogle search ( " Brick tea " " skeletal fluorosis " )

> > > turns up plenty of information on it:

> > > <http://tinyurl.com/mbttu>http://tinyurl.com/mbttu

> <http://tinyurl.com/mbttu>

> > <<http://tinyurl.com/mbttu>http://tinyurl.com/mbttu

> <http://tinyurl.com/mbttu>>

> > >

> > >

>

<http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm>http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm

>

> > <http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm>

> > >

>

<<http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm>http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.ht\

m

>

> > <http://www.greenteahaus.com/group-r.htm>> has a few references

> > > including a couple to the powerful synergy that occurs in the

> > > presence of aluminum, a very plentiful element.

> > >

> > > In " Brick tea fluoride as a main source of adult fluorosis "

> > > published in Food Chem Toxicol. in 2003 quotes:

> > >

> > > " The adult daily fluoride intake reached 12 mg, of which 99%

> > > originated from the brick tea-containing foods. The positive rate

> > > of clinical symptoms by physical examination was 89%;

> > > furthermore, 42 of the 111 subjects were diagnosed by X-ray. The

> > > positive examination rate was 83%. Although the osteosclerosis-

> > > type skeletal fluorosis (overall increased bone matrix density)

> > > affected 74%, arthropathy and arthritis affected a significant

> > > number of the patients, resulting in functional disability. The

> > > results suggest that this brick tea-type fluorosis had even more

> > > severe adverse effects on human health compared with both the

> > > water-type and coal combustion-type fluorosis that occurred in

> > > other areas of China. "

> > >

> > > Note that skeletal fluorosis is only one manifestation of the

> > > degneration that fluoride causes in chronic brick tea drinkers;

> > > most of this damage relates to chronic oxidative stress as

> > > fluorine is a very potent oxidizer and toxin.

> > >

> > > Duncan Crow

> > >

> > >

> >

> > --

> > This is your brain on politics:

> >

> >

>

<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm>http://www.scienc\

edaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm

>

> > <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm>

> >

> > Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years.

> >

> >