Re: FW: Re: Fw: something to think about

[Guest guest]

Dr.Shad writes:

After ruling out pathology, including fracuture or

dislocation, using neuro/ortho and other tests, I would provocate the

spinal joints to assess localized irritation

SO is this like motion palpation?

Anglen

[Guest guest]

Dr.Shad writes:

If I find a direction that is pain free, I then manipulate or mobilize in that direction away from pain.

I had a friend that drilled water wells. Typically if the drill bit thingy got stuck he tried to pull it back. One time it got stuck and he could not pull it back. Contrary to proper technique he stuck it in harder and deeper which freed it, and he was able to extract the well drill bit. Sometimes , personally, I think you may have to go any which way you can to free up motion.

The body is designed to adjust it self , and when it moves freely will tend to do so.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

No, they PROVOCATE without using motion palpation... They DO NOT motion joints in order to assess body function. They are PROVOCATEURS!!! (boy, that's no joke).

They use ortho neuro tests! (the ones that apparently don't move anything!!! Yeah, you know the ones... And, we ALL KNOW that ortho/neuro tests have a much higher interexaminer reliability than does motion palpation--WHICH RELIES ON PAIN AS WELL AS LACK OF MOTION AS A POSITIVE INDICATOR. Duh!

So, anyway, they do not use motion to see if joints work! They only use ortho/neuro tests to "provocate" joints...and when they find "provocated" joints (barring pathology) they ADJUST those "provocated" joints...but, they only adjust in a direction that doesn't produce pain, and only in a manner that DOES NOT improve joint range of motion or reduce joint subluxation...

So, my last question to them was, "Why do you guys adjust?" I got no answer. I was just called "slower than others." (But, hey, it's not name calling or unprofessional conduct when THEY do it

(sniff...It's ok...I can take it...)

RR.

Re: FW: Re: Fw: something to think about

Dr.Shad writes:

After ruling out pathology, including fracuture ordislocation, using neuro/ortho and other tests, I would provocate thespinal joints to assess localized irritationSO is this like motion palpation? Anglen

[Guest guest]

:

That’s the art. Science is

great, but sometimes you have a feel, an instinct, an innate knowledge of what

needs to be done… and sometimes you’re just baffled. Even if

you’re Dr. House, MD. Yes, I must admit, sometimes I do adjust into

“pain” because it “feels” appropriate. I do this

to restore motion. But alas, there is no such thing as a fixated

segment. I guess I’ll start well drillin’ instead! One

thing gots me thinking tho… why do these self-proclaimed experts put such

credence into a long-retired angry psychiatrist? If ever there was a

science based healing profession, it would be psychiatry! No?

Seitz, DC

Tuality Physicians

730-D SE Oak Street

Hillsboro,

OR 97123

(503)640-3724

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ang320@...

Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006

5:38 PM

Subject: Re: FW: Re:

Fw: something to think about

Dr.Shad writes:

If I find a direction that is pain free, I then

manipulate or mobilize in that direction away from pain.

I had a friend that drilled water wells. Typically if the drill bit thingy got

stuck he tried to pull it back. One time it got stuck and he could not pull it

back. Contrary to proper technique he stuck it in harder and deeper which freed

it, and he was able to extract the well drill bit. Sometimes , personally, I

think you may have to go any which way you can to free up motion.

The body is designed to adjust it self , and when it moves

freely will tend to do so.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

hhhmmmm dare I say..... listen to your " innate "

> Dr.Shad writes:

>

>> If I find a direction that is pain free, I then manipulate or mobilize

>> in

>> that direction away from pain.

>>

>> I had a friend that drilled water wells. Typically if the drill bit

>> thingy

>> got stuck he tried to pull it back. One time it got stuck and he could

>> not

>> pull it back. Contrary to proper technique he stuck it in harder and

>> deeper

>> which freed it, and he was able to extract the well drill bit. Sometimes

>> ,

>> personally, I think you may have to go any which way you can to free up

>> motion.

>>

>

>

> The body is designed to adjust it self , and when it moves freely will

> tend

> to do so.

>

>> Anglen

>

>

DR CHARLIE CAUGHLIN DC. CAC

155 NW 1ST AVE

JOHN DAY, OR 97845

OFF-541-575-1063

FAX-541-575-5554

HM-541-575-1103

[Guest guest]

Dr. McLagan,

Motion palpation is also intended to isolate PAIN!!! That is one of the primary functions of motion palpation!!!

Motion palpation IS NOT just a tool to see if a joint moves or not... It is intended to differentiate the different types of "fixation" (i.e., muscular, ligamentous, articular, bony and adaptive).

Motion palpation used "properly" IS a provoking test... I suggest that if you're NOT using motion palpation in this manner, then you're not truly differentiating the specific tissues you're treating...(and, thus, wouldn't know when or when NOT to adjust. Or, what type of adjustment to use when you DO decide to adjust...).

"Motion Palpation and Chiropractic Technique" by MPI would be a GREAT reference for you guys who obviously want to "know" what specific joint complex tissue you're treating...

RR.

FW: Re: Fw: something to think about

Linsay,Motion palption is a tool used to look for fixation. I use provocation to look for pain and irrition, as I have stated before.Shad McLagan D.C.>> Dr.Shad writes:> > > After ruling out pathology, including fracuture or> > dislocation, using neuro/ortho and other tests, I would provocate the> > spinal joints to assess localized irritation> > > > SO is this like motion palpation?> > > > Anglen>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/22/2006 9:38:32 AM US Mountain Standard Time, caughlindrc@... writes:

hhhmmmm dare I say..... listen to your"innate"

Exactly some times you can over-think things, or as I now call it "McLagen" something to death. Listening to other than the reasoning mind lead to such discoveries as the Benzene ring and birth control pills -

Can you be a chiropractor without an understanding of innate?

Anglen

[Guest guest]

This is addressed to all the Doctor's who are members of the list serve,

I have just joined this list serve and I am very excited to foster my experiences with chiropractic through your information and comments, as I am a newly licensed doctor. With that being said, I am happy to see that many of us have been spending time thinking about what our philosophies are and what chiropractic truley is. It seems to me though that we need to be spending even more time working together as chiropractors to educate more people about the benefits of chiropractic. I'm sure we will all have different views regarding different subjects and that is great because if we all thought the same way then it would be hard to discover new things. I'm hoping that all of us in the future can come up with some way that we can all join forces to provide information to the general public, whether it be a phone tree or doing our part in our communities to make more people aware of our field and its benefits.

Again, I'm looking forward to working together.

Arah McLaughlin, D.C

FW: Re: Fw: something to think about

Linsay,Motion palption is a tool used to look for fixation. I use provocation to look for pain and irrition, as I have stated before.Shad McLagan D.C.>> Dr.Shad writes:> > > After ruling out pathology, including fracuture or> > dislocation, using neuro/ortho and other tests, I would provocate the> > spinal joints to assess localized irritation> > > > SO is this like motion palpation?> > > > Anglen>

[Guest guest]

Can you all PLEASE DROP THIS!

It is as obnoxious as some of the OT Clinton or Bush bashing that went on.

Colwell

FW: Re: Fw: something to think about

Dr. s,I am confused, it seems you are contradicting yourself. What I mean is that you say,"Motion palpation is also intended to isolate PAIN!!! That is one of the primary functions of motion palpation!!!"Then you say,"It is intended to differentiate the different types of "fixation" (i.e., muscular, ligamentous, articular, bony and adaptive)."Then you state,"Motion palpation IS NOT just a tool to see if a joint moves or not..."But then you say,"It is intended to differentiate the different types of "fixation" (i.e., muscular, ligamentous, articular, bony and adaptive)."What?Fixation is whether a joint moves or not, right?Therefore, wouldn't motion palpation be exactly that, palpating for motion? The primary purpose of motion palpation is to assess motion or the lack there of, not primarily pain.Shad McLagan, D.C.> >> > Dr.Shad writes:> > > > > After ruling out pathology, including fracuture or> > > dislocation, using neuro/ortho and other tests, I would provocate > the> > > spinal joints to assess localized irritation> > > > > > SO is this like motion palpation?> > > > > > Anglen> >>

[Guest guest]

I agree.

Ron Crockett

--------- FW: Re: Fw: something to think about

Dr. s,I am confused, it seems you are contradicting yourself. What I mean is that you say,"Motion palpation is also intended to isolate PAIN!!! That is one of the primary functions of motion palpation!!!"Then you say,"It is intended to differentiate the different types of "fixation" (i.e., muscular, ligamentous, articular, bony and adaptive)."Then you state,"Motion palpation IS NOT just a tool to see if a joint moves or not..."But then you say,"It is intended to differentiate the different types of "fixation" (i.e., muscular, ligamentous, articular, bony and adaptive)."What?Fixation is whether a joint moves or not, right?Therefore, wouldn't motion palpation be exactly that, palpating for motion? The primary purpose of motion palpation is to assess motion or the lack there of, not primarily pain.Shad McLagan, D.C.> >> > Dr.Shad writes:> > > > > After ruling out pathology, including fracuture or> > > dislocation, using neuro/ortho and other tests, I would provocate > the> > > spinal joints to

assess localized irritation> > > > > > SO is this like motion palpation?> > > > > > Anglen> >>

[Guest guest]

better yet...if a chiropractor adjusts in a

forest...does anyone hear the crack?

Garreth

Eugene

--- JPedersenDC <chirodoc1@...> wrote:

>

> Can a chiropractor in a forest adjust a patient

> without the sound of

> someone disagreeing with his chosen method?

>

> J. Pedersen DC

>

>

> Sears wrote:

> >

> > Can you be a healer without humility?

> >

> >

> > Sears, DC

> > NW PDX

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On Nov 22, 2006, at 6:17 PM, ang320@...

> <mailto:ang320@...> wrote:

> >

> >>

> >> Can you be a chiropractor without an

> understanding of innate?

> >

> >

>

>

>

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