Re: One last time WelkerDC

November 7, 2006

> Unfortunately future dialogue will continue to be wasted upon you. " Ya

> aint gonna learn what ya don't wanna know "

>

> Your question has been answered about a dozen different ways.

>

> BTW, You say:

>

> " " We can provide much needed help to many patients, but correctly.

> It doesn't make much sense to break a guarding mechanism when the

> guarding mechanism is meant to stabilize. If we manipulate correctly

> we work with the body, if we manipulate incorrectly we slow the

> process and even create instability. "

>

> Then when pressured to reveal exactly how you would perform the above, you

> state:

>

> ***So far all I have stated is that misalignment and fixation do not

>> exist, I have stated nothing about my treatment. What I am saying is

>> that as chiropractors we have 2 major theories to work with, and

>> neither is correct. The problem is that you have no answers at this

>> point, only questions.

>

> Again your contridictory nature coming through. You can't have it both

> ways. If chiro philosophy is incorrect (oh holy one) than i ask again how

> in the hell are you going to adjust " correctly " and help people as a

> chiropractor using that DC behind your name. Perhaps, no in fact you are

> inexperienced and angry at the chiro professon.

>

> This group is rife with disagreement and diversity of views. It just so

> happens that what is boring is the subject you have chosen. The fact you

> feel compelled to arrogantly ignore all of the information that has been

> profferred you by EXPERIENCED chiropractors is indeed boring.

>

> For example you have made a email account specifically for this

> green argument " correct theory " . I don't buy your excuse that this name

> was some sort of humerous ironic intention of yours. You ended your first

> post by challenging " thats why i believe the body is more intelligent than

> you do " . You also say " I've been waiting two years to have this

> discussion. "

>

> This was all done to get a reaction, and to expouse your PERSONAL views on

> the subject NOT TO ATTAIN INFORMATION, and certainly does not reflect

> positively towards you as a health professional. Stop picking apart every

> post and look for the answers to your questions, they are there, if not,

> ask again, but lets stop this idiocy. Your failure to grasp some of these

> issues does not equate to Chiropractic's 2 major theories being incorrect.

> Incorrect? Wow, Chiropractors everywhere should be thanking you I suppose

> for seeing the light after 100 years. Wow, what the hell have we been

> doing. Hurting people for 100 years!!! And we are still in business???

> Look man, your thoughts on this are not original. We have all at one time

> questioned this very thing, but had the ability to see the answer when

> smacked across the face with it. You are no explorer of unsailed waters.

>

>>

>

> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

> Spine Tree Chiropractic

> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

> Portland, OR 97211

> Ph: 503-788-6800

> c: 503-889-6204

> Re: RE:fixation and our Flat World

>

>> Dr. Medlin,

>>

>> Thank you for your response. I address each e-mail by answering each

>> point and I appreciate that you do the same. I think it makes it

>> easier for me and the reader to organize the thoughts.

>>

>> " I asked whether or not you had this discussion in school because

>> this is one of those topics that takes some hashing out to

>> understand. "

>>

>> ***I have heard this said in many ways, this is the first time I have

>> heard " hashing out " . I have heard, " It may take you 20+ years, like

>> me, to finally understand what you are feeling " , " It took me a while

>> before I was able to feel the right spot " , " You may have to attend a

>> few seminars before you understand " , " Can you feel that, no, no,

>> right there, you can't feel that " . How much brainwashing do we need?

>>

>> " This is the type of dialague you wish to hash out in this forum and

>> unfortunately it's not the correct place. These are the things you

>> sort out in shcool and decide whether or not to continue chiro

>> school. It's old hat. "

>>

>> ***I am sorry, I guess you wanted a group where everyone agrees with

>> your thoughts so that you are never challenged and can never be

>> wrong. How boring.

>>

>> " Cancer, excessive inflammation, Hypertonicity, Hyperacticve, Hyper

>> Thyroid, etc. etc. etc. Break a bone without setting it and watch

>> the body heal, but WAIT, does it heal perfectly? Does it lay down too

>> much scar tissue ?????? "

>>

>> ***Most of these comments are the same as many before you, I never

>> said we shouldn't intervene. I just tried to pull the rug out from

>> under you. There are things such as operator error, even in these

>> situations the body's response is an intelligent for the pathological

>> environment or trauma.

>>

>> " According to you they would be left alone, because filling them

>> would go against natural order. You see your logic is flawed. The

>> body wants and aims for homeostasis, but many times cannot attain it

>> without external stimulus. "

>>

>> ***I never said the body was perfect, only that its responses are

>> intelligent. When the body has reached failure you as a physician

>> can step in, hopefully dentists are not filling teeth too early.

>>

>> " Given your understanding as it is now, how on earth are you going to

>> do that aside from sitting back and watching the patient get

>> better.? What you say is correct, but chiro's do work with the body.

>> You're assuming that we ALL operate under this theory of yours that

>> the subluxation is a " gaurding mechanism " Flawed. And it seems you

>> want us to give you all the answers. "

>>

>> ***So far all I have stated is that misalignment and fixation do not

>> exist, I have stated nothing about my treatment. What I am saying is

>> that as chiropractors we have 2 major theories to work with, and

>> neither is correct. The problem is that you have no answers at this

>> point, only questions.

>>

>> " You won't find any argument here on that, but it is in complete

>> contradiction to your prior statements. Pray tell, what is YOUR

>> definition of manipulating incorrectly vs correctly. What situation

>> would you find appropriate given that you feel a fixation is

>> a " guarding mechanism " ? "

>>

>> ***It seems you want to run before you can walk. It would mean

>> nothing for me to teach you more until you can grasp what I am asking

>> you.

>>

>> " In all seriousness, it would benefit you for you to take Dr.

>> Abrahamsons advice on Chestnutt. You would have a lot cleared up with

>> the proper philosophical educator. "

>>

>> ***I would love to speak with Dr. Chestnut, it seems he may be the

>> only one to answer my question/statement.

>>

>> I understand you have bones to move, there is so much I could say,

>> mostly I look forward to future dialogue.

>>

>> Brad Welker, D.C.

>>

>>>

>>> Doctor, (if indeed you are a practicing one. Please indicate where

>> it is you are from) It is difficult to determine whether or not your

>> comments are simply inflammatory or whether you actually don't get

>> it. As you have done with me and others, please allow me to do the

>> same for you by addressing your points below:

>>>

>>> You say:

>>>

>>> " I have discussed this topic with DC's, and MD's.I did not come to

>> this understanding until after I had become a DC, mostly came to

>> this understanding through much frustration as a DC. "

>>>

>>> First of all I would argue that you are more confused than clear on

>> this subject and have no understanding of it yet. I asked whether or

>> not you had this discussion in school because this is one of those

>> topics that takes some hashing out to understand. Coming into the

>> field without this kowledge or the chance to actually philosphically

>> discuss this in the correct forum and hence walking away with the

>> proper understanding would lead one to a very frustrated DC indeed.

>> So you have answered my question. No, you have not, which displays a

>> cleft in your education and you should go back and ask your teachers

>> this question not fellow colleagues in this particular forum. It

>> would take time. There is nothing i or anyone else can write to you

>> that would quell your dissatisfaction with the chiropractic paradigm

>> as it stands now. It's a losing proposition and frankly not our job

>> to explain/argue the Subluxation principle with you or explain why

>> you are in an amazing professional Wellness Care Field.

>>>

>>> You say:

>>>

>>> " When a joint, disc, muscle has been injured the body will go into

>> a natural guarding mechanism to splint and protect the injury. Does

>> this mean that the body is wrong or that we have mis-read the

>> situation. "

>>>

>>> YES! The body can over react- as i stated- to an injury. Again this

>> is a topic in which we discussed in philosophy 101- " well arent we

>> going agains the body's wishes with ice, after all it's a natural

>> response " This is the type of dialague you wish to hash out in this

>> forum and unfortunately it's not the correct place. These are the

>> things you sort out in shcool and decide whether or not to continue

>> chiro school. It's old hat. You should know by now that the body is

>> wrong many times. Cancer, excessive inflammation, Hypertonicity,

>> Hyperacticve, Hyper Thyroid, etc. etc. etc. Break a bone without

>> setting it and watch the body heal, but WAIT, does it heal perfectly?

>> Does it lay down too much scar tissue ?????? Do you believe in

>> Massage or is that against the barrier? Do you recognize exercise as

>> healthy for rehab?? etc. etc. etc.

>>>

>>> You are operating on the idea that as chiropractors we must believe

>> that the body is always right. That simply isn't true. You have

>> misunderstood innate intelligence. Innate is more of a potentiality.

>> Something the body intends on. Dental Caries. According to you they

>> would be left alone, because filling them would go against natural

>> order. You see your logic is flawed. The body wants and aims for

>> homeostasis, but many times cannot attain it without external

>> stimulus.

>>>

>>> You say:

>>>

>>> " What I am saying is that the body will heal much faster if we work

>> with it instead of against it, ie- work with the natural guarding

>> mechanism. "

>>>

>>> Given your understanding as it is now, how on earth are you going

>> to do that aside from sitting back and watching the patient get

>> better.? What you say is correct, but chiro's do work with the body.

>> You're assuming that we ALL operate under this theory of yours that

>> the subluxation is a " gaurding mechanism " Flawed. And it seems you

>> want us to give you all the answers.

>>>

>>> You say:

>>>

>>> " We can provide much needed help to many patients, but correctly.

>> It doesn't make much sense to break a guarding mechanism when the

>> guarding mechanism is meant to stabilize. If we manipulate correctly

>> we work with the body, if we manipulate incorrectly we slow the

>> process and even create instability. "

>>>

>>> You won't find any argument here on that, but it is in complete

>> contradiction to your prior statements. Pray tell, what is YOUR

>> definition of manipulating incorrectly vs correctly. What situation

>> would you find appropriate given that you feel a fixation is

>> a " guarding mechanism " ?

>>>

>>> In all seriousness, it would benefit you for you to take Dr.

>> Abrahamsons advice on Chestnutt. You would have a lot cleared up with

>> the proper philosophical educator.

>>>

>>> Have a great day, I've got bones to move!!!

>>>

>>> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

>>> Spine Tree Chiropractic

>>> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

>>> Portland, OR 97211

>>> Ph: 503-788-6800

>>> c: 503-889-6204

>>>

>>

>> OregonDCs rules:

>> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

>> foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

>> members will be tolerated.

>> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

>> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

>> However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print,

>> forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member

>> without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been

>> removed.

>>

November 7, 2006

So far I have been waiting for any logical response, thus far have

not seen any.

Please read the articles I have attached in recent posting, look

forward to hearing your response.

Thanks,

Brad Welker, D.C.

> >>

> >> Doctor, (if indeed you are a practicing one. Please indicate

where

> > it is you are from) It is difficult to determine whether or not

your

> > comments are simply inflammatory or whether you actually don't get

> > it. As you have done with me and others, please allow me to do

the

> > same for you by addressing your points below:

> >>

> >> You say:

> >>

> >> " I have discussed this topic with DC's, and MD's.I did not come

to

> > this understanding until after I had become a DC, mostly came to

> > this understanding through much frustration as a DC. "

> >>

> >> First of all I would argue that you are more confused than clear

on

> > this subject and have no understanding of it yet. I asked whether

or

> > not you had this discussion in school because this is one of those

> > topics that takes some hashing out to understand. Coming into the

> > field without this kowledge or the chance to actually

philosphically

> > discuss this in the correct forum and hence walking away with the

> > proper understanding would lead one to a very frustrated DC

indeed.

> > So you have answered my question. No, you have not, which

displays a

> > cleft in your education and you should go back and ask your

teachers

> > this question not fellow colleagues in this particular forum. It

> > would take time. There is nothing i or anyone else can write to

you

> > that would quell your dissatisfaction with the chiropractic

paradigm

> > as it stands now. It's a losing proposition and frankly not our

job

> > to explain/argue the Subluxation principle with you or explain

why

> > you are in an amazing professional Wellness Care Field.

> >>

> >> You say:

> >>

> >> " When a joint, disc, muscle has been injured the body will go

into

> > a natural guarding mechanism to splint and protect the injury.

Does

> > this mean that the body is wrong or that we have mis-read the

> > situation. "

> >>

> >> YES! The body can over react- as i stated- to an injury. Again

this

> > is a topic in which we discussed in philosophy 101- " well arent we

> > going agains the body's wishes with ice, after all it's a natural

> > response " This is the type of dialague you wish to hash out in

this

> > forum and unfortunately it's not the correct place. These are the

> > things you sort out in shcool and decide whether or not to

continue

> > chiro school. It's old hat. You should know by now that the body

is

> > wrong many times. Cancer, excessive inflammation, Hypertonicity,

> > Hyperacticve, Hyper Thyroid, etc. etc. etc. Break a bone without

> > setting it and watch the body heal, but WAIT, does it heal

perfectly?

> > Does it lay down too much scar tissue ?????? Do you believe in

> > Massage or is that against the barrier? Do you recognize exercise

as

> > healthy for rehab?? etc. etc. etc.

> >>

> >> You are operating on the idea that as chiropractors we must

believe

> > that the body is always right. That simply isn't true. You have

> > misunderstood innate intelligence. Innate is more of a

potentiality.

> > Something the body intends on. Dental Caries. According to you

they

> > would be left alone, because filling them would go against natural

> > order. You see your logic is flawed. The body wants and aims for

> > homeostasis, but many times cannot attain it without external

> > stimulus.

> >>

> >> You say:

> >>

> >> " What I am saying is that the body will heal much faster if we

work

> > with it instead of against it, ie- work with the natural guarding

> > mechanism. "

> >>

> >> Given your understanding as it is now, how on earth are you going

> > to do that aside from sitting back and watching the patient get

> > better.? What you say is correct, but chiro's do work with the

body.

> > You're assuming that we ALL operate under this theory of yours

that

> > the subluxation is a " gaurding mechanism " Flawed. And it seems you

> > want us to give you all the answers.

> >>

> >> You say:

> >>

> >> " We can provide much needed help to many patients, but correctly.

> > It doesn't make much sense to break a guarding mechanism when the

> > guarding mechanism is meant to stabilize. If we manipulate

correctly

> > we work with the body, if we manipulate incorrectly we slow the

> > process and even create instability. "

> >>

> >> You won't find any argument here on that, but it is in complete

> > contradiction to your prior statements. Pray tell, what is YOUR

> > definition of manipulating incorrectly vs correctly. What

situation

> > would you find appropriate given that you feel a fixation is

> > a " guarding mechanism " ?

> >>

> >> In all seriousness, it would benefit you for you to take Dr.

> > Abrahamsons advice on Chestnutt. You would have a lot cleared up

with

> > the proper philosophical educator.

> >>

> >> Have a great day, I've got bones to move!!!

> >>

> >> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

> >> Spine Tree Chiropractic

> >> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

> >> Portland, OR 97211

> >> Ph: 503-788-6800

> >> c: 503-889-6204

> >>

> >

> > OregonDCs rules:

> > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve

is to

> > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on

listserve

> > members will be tolerated.

> > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up

anywhere.

> > However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print,

forward,

> > or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member

without

> > his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been

removed.

> >

November 8, 2006

SEE!!

YOu have no answers at all and have admitted to being a smart ass. Yea, the

responses to your posts werent nice, but you asked for it. Did introduce

yourself and say " Hi fellow colleagues, i'm Dr. Brad WElker, I am on the LMT

board and I Practice out in beautiful Bend, OR. I have been grappling with

an issue I thought you may be able to help me understand.........

No, you didn't do that did ya?? You're a first class a***h*** and began the

posts that way, and (given your logic it doesnt surprise me) expected us to

accept you with the warm fuzzies.

You're wasting our time and i frankly don't wish to share any more dialogue

with the likes of you.

You want us to respond to your TRIPE and yet when pressured for answers you

provide nothing except a quip about being illogical.

You've come to this listserve wanting a fight Brad, and looks as if you've

got it. I think this really shows how incredibly UNPROFESSIONAL you are and

it amazes me that the Massage board would have such charachter on it's

board.

It also amazes me that a doctor would be willing to completely humiliate and

denigrate himself amongst his fellow practitioners across the state.

I do have to laugh though. Because ultimately Brad, you're going to have a

tough go of it and karma is sometimes a ruthless beast.

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1627 NE Alberta St. #6

Portland, OR 97211

Ph: 503-788-6800

c: 503-889-6204

Re: One last time WelkerDC

> So far I have been waiting for any logical response, thus far have

> not seen any.

>

> Please read the articles I have attached in recent posting, look

> forward to hearing your response.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Brad Welker, D.C.

>

>> >>

>> >> Doctor, (if indeed you are a practicing one. Please indicate

> where

>> > it is you are from) It is difficult to determine whether or not

> your

>> > comments are simply inflammatory or whether you actually don't get

>> > it. As you have done with me and others, please allow me to do

> the

>> > same for you by addressing your points below:

>> >>

>> >> You say:

>> >>

>> >> " I have discussed this topic with DC's, and MD's.I did not come

> to

>> > this understanding until after I had become a DC, mostly came to

>> > this understanding through much frustration as a DC. "

>> >>

>> >> First of all I would argue that you are more confused than clear

> on

>> > this subject and have no understanding of it yet. I asked whether

> or

>> > not you had this discussion in school because this is one of those

>> > topics that takes some hashing out to understand. Coming into the

>> > field without this kowledge or the chance to actually

> philosphically

>> > discuss this in the correct forum and hence walking away with the

>> > proper understanding would lead one to a very frustrated DC

> indeed.

>> > So you have answered my question. No, you have not, which

> displays a

>> > cleft in your education and you should go back and ask your

> teachers

>> > this question not fellow colleagues in this particular forum. It

>> > would take time. There is nothing i or anyone else can write to

> you

>> > that would quell your dissatisfaction with the chiropractic

> paradigm

>> > as it stands now. It's a losing proposition and frankly not our

> job

>> > to explain/argue the Subluxation principle with you or explain

> why

>> > you are in an amazing professional Wellness Care Field.

>> >>

>> >> You say:

>> >>

>> >> " When a joint, disc, muscle has been injured the body will go

> into

>> > a natural guarding mechanism to splint and protect the injury.

> Does

>> > this mean that the body is wrong or that we have mis-read the

>> > situation. "

>> >>

>> >> YES! The body can over react- as i stated- to an injury. Again

> this

>> > is a topic in which we discussed in philosophy 101- " well arent we

>> > going agains the body's wishes with ice, after all it's a natural

>> > response " This is the type of dialague you wish to hash out in

> this

>> > forum and unfortunately it's not the correct place. These are the

>> > things you sort out in shcool and decide whether or not to

> continue

>> > chiro school. It's old hat. You should know by now that the body

> is

>> > wrong many times. Cancer, excessive inflammation, Hypertonicity,

>> > Hyperacticve, Hyper Thyroid, etc. etc. etc. Break a bone without

>> > setting it and watch the body heal, but WAIT, does it heal

> perfectly?

>> > Does it lay down too much scar tissue ?????? Do you believe in

>> > Massage or is that against the barrier? Do you recognize exercise

> as

>> > healthy for rehab?? etc. etc. etc.

>> >>

>> >> You are operating on the idea that as chiropractors we must

> believe

>> > that the body is always right. That simply isn't true. You have

>> > misunderstood innate intelligence. Innate is more of a

> potentiality.

>> > Something the body intends on. Dental Caries. According to you

> they

>> > would be left alone, because filling them would go against natural

>> > order. You see your logic is flawed. The body wants and aims for

>> > homeostasis, but many times cannot attain it without external

>> > stimulus.

>> >>

>> >> You say:

>> >>

>> >> " What I am saying is that the body will heal much faster if we

> work

>> > with it instead of against it, ie- work with the natural guarding

>> > mechanism. "

>> >>

>> >> Given your understanding as it is now, how on earth are you going

>> > to do that aside from sitting back and watching the patient get

>> > better.? What you say is correct, but chiro's do work with the

> body.

>> > You're assuming that we ALL operate under this theory of yours

> that

>> > the subluxation is a " gaurding mechanism " Flawed. And it seems you

>> > want us to give you all the answers.

>> >>

>> >> You say:

>> >>

>> >> " We can provide much needed help to many patients, but correctly.

>> > It doesn't make much sense to break a guarding mechanism when the

>> > guarding mechanism is meant to stabilize. If we manipulate

> correctly

>> > we work with the body, if we manipulate incorrectly we slow the

>> > process and even create instability. "

>> >>

>> >> You won't find any argument here on that, but it is in complete

>> > contradiction to your prior statements. Pray tell, what is YOUR

>> > definition of manipulating incorrectly vs correctly. What

> situation

>> > would you find appropriate given that you feel a fixation is

>> > a " guarding mechanism " ?

>> >>

>> >> In all seriousness, it would benefit you for you to take Dr.

>> > Abrahamsons advice on Chestnutt. You would have a lot cleared up

> with

>> > the proper philosophical educator.

>> >>

>> >> Have a great day, I've got bones to move!!!

>> >>

>> >> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

>> >> Spine Tree Chiropractic

>> >> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

>> >> Portland, OR 97211

>> >> Ph: 503-788-6800

>> >> c: 503-889-6204

>> >>

>> >

>> > OregonDCs rules:

>> > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve

> is to

>> > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on

> listserve

>> > members will be tolerated.

>> > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

>> > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up

> anywhere.

>> > However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print,

> forward,

>> > or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member

> without

>> > his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been

> removed.

>> >

November 8, 2006

> SEE!!

>

> YOu have no answers at all and have admitted to being a smart ass. Yea,

> the responses to your posts werent nice, but you asked for it. Did

> introduce yourself and say " Hi fellow colleagues, i'm Dr. Brad WElker, I

> am on the LMT board and I Practice out in beautiful Bend, OR. I have been

> grappling with an issue I thought you may be able to help me

> understand.........

> No, you didn't do that did ya?? You're a first class a***h*** and began

> the posts that way, and (given your logic it doesnt surprise me) expected

> us to accept you with the warm fuzzies.

>

> You're wasting our time and i frankly don't wish to share any more

> dialogue with the likes of you.

>

> You want us to respond to your TRIPE and yet when pressured for answers

> you provide nothing except a quip about being illogical.

>

> You've come to this listserve wanting a fight Brad, and looks as if you've

> got it. I think this really shows how incredibly UNPROFESSIONAL you are

> and it amazes me that the Massage board would have such charachter on it's

> board.

>

> It also amazes me that a doctor would be willing to completely humiliate

> and denigrate himself amongst his fellow practitioners across the state.

>

> I do have to laugh though. Because ultimately Brad, you're going to have a

> tough go of it and karma is sometimes a ruthless beast.

>

> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

> Spine Tree Chiropractic

> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

> Portland, OR 97211

> Ph: 503-788-6800

> c: 503-889-6204

> Re: One last time WelkerDC

>

>> So far I have been waiting for any logical response, thus far have

>> not seen any.

>>

>> Please read the articles I have attached in recent posting, look

>> forward to hearing your response.

>>

>> Thanks,

>>

>> Brad Welker, D.C.

>>

>>> >>

>>> >> Doctor, (if indeed you are a practicing one. Please indicate

>> where

>>> > it is you are from) It is difficult to determine whether or not

>> your

>>> > comments are simply inflammatory or whether you actually don't get

>>> > it. As you have done with me and others, please allow me to do

>> the

>>> > same for you by addressing your points below:

>>> >>

>>> >> You say:

>>> >>

>>> >> " I have discussed this topic with DC's, and MD's.I did not come

>> to

>>> > this understanding until after I had become a DC, mostly came to

>>> > this understanding through much frustration as a DC. "

>>> >>

>>> >> First of all I would argue that you are more confused than clear

>> on

>>> > this subject and have no understanding of it yet. I asked whether

>> or

>>> > not you had this discussion in school because this is one of those

>>> > topics that takes some hashing out to understand. Coming into the

>>> > field without this kowledge or the chance to actually

>> philosphically

>>> > discuss this in the correct forum and hence walking away with the

>>> > proper understanding would lead one to a very frustrated DC

>> indeed.

>>> > So you have answered my question. No, you have not, which

>> displays a

>>> > cleft in your education and you should go back and ask your

>> teachers

>>> > this question not fellow colleagues in this particular forum. It

>>> > would take time. There is nothing i or anyone else can write to

>> you

>>> > that would quell your dissatisfaction with the chiropractic

>> paradigm

>>> > as it stands now. It's a losing proposition and frankly not our

>> job

>>> > to explain/argue the Subluxation principle with you or explain

>> why

>>> > you are in an amazing professional Wellness Care Field.

>>> >>

>>> >> You say:

>>> >>

>>> >> " When a joint, disc, muscle has been injured the body will go

>> into

>>> > a natural guarding mechanism to splint and protect the injury.

>> Does

>>> > this mean that the body is wrong or that we have mis-read the

>>> > situation. "

>>> >>

>>> >> YES! The body can over react- as i stated- to an injury. Again

>> this

>>> > is a topic in which we discussed in philosophy 101- " well arent we

>>> > going agains the body's wishes with ice, after all it's a natural

>>> > response " This is the type of dialague you wish to hash out in

>> this

>>> > forum and unfortunately it's not the correct place. These are the

>>> > things you sort out in shcool and decide whether or not to

>> continue

>>> > chiro school. It's old hat. You should know by now that the body

>> is

>>> > wrong many times. Cancer, excessive inflammation, Hypertonicity,

>>> > Hyperacticve, Hyper Thyroid, etc. etc. etc. Break a bone without

>>> > setting it and watch the body heal, but WAIT, does it heal

>> perfectly?

>>> > Does it lay down too much scar tissue ?????? Do you believe in

>>> > Massage or is that against the barrier? Do you recognize exercise

>> as

>>> > healthy for rehab?? etc. etc. etc.

>>> >>

>>> >> You are operating on the idea that as chiropractors we must

>> believe

>>> > that the body is always right. That simply isn't true. You have

>>> > misunderstood innate intelligence. Innate is more of a

>> potentiality.

>>> > Something the body intends on. Dental Caries. According to you

>> they

>>> > would be left alone, because filling them would go against natural

>>> > order. You see your logic is flawed. The body wants and aims for

>>> > homeostasis, but many times cannot attain it without external

>>> > stimulus.

>>> >>

>>> >> You say:

>>> >>

>>> >> " What I am saying is that the body will heal much faster if we

>> work

>>> > with it instead of against it, ie- work with the natural guarding

>>> > mechanism. "

>>> >>

>>> >> Given your understanding as it is now, how on earth are you going

>>> > to do that aside from sitting back and watching the patient get

>>> > better.? What you say is correct, but chiro's do work with the

>> body.

>>> > You're assuming that we ALL operate under this theory of yours

>> that

>>> > the subluxation is a " gaurding mechanism " Flawed. And it seems you

>>> > want us to give you all the answers.

>>> >>

>>> >> You say:

>>> >>

>>> >> " We can provide much needed help to many patients, but correctly.

>>> > It doesn't make much sense to break a guarding mechanism when the

>>> > guarding mechanism is meant to stabilize. If we manipulate

>> correctly

>>> > we work with the body, if we manipulate incorrectly we slow the

>>> > process and even create instability. "

>>> >>

>>> >> You won't find any argument here on that, but it is in complete

>>> > contradiction to your prior statements. Pray tell, what is YOUR

>>> > definition of manipulating incorrectly vs correctly. What

>> situation

>>> > would you find appropriate given that you feel a fixation is

>>> > a " guarding mechanism " ?

>>> >>

>>> >> In all seriousness, it would benefit you for you to take Dr.

>>> > Abrahamsons advice on Chestnutt. You would have a lot cleared up

>> with

>>> > the proper philosophical educator.

>>> >>

>>> >> Have a great day, I've got bones to move!!!

>>> >>

>>> >> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

>>> >> Spine Tree Chiropractic

>>> >> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

>>> >> Portland, OR 97211

>>> >> Ph: 503-788-6800

>>> >> c: 503-889-6204

>>> >>

>>> >

>>> > OregonDCs rules:

>>> > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve

>> is to

>>> > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on

>> listserve

>>> > members will be tolerated.

>>> > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

>>> > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up

>> anywhere.

>>> > However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print,

>> forward,

>>> > or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member

>> without

>>> > his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been

>> removed.

>>> >

November 8, 2006

here...here! ditto

> SEE!!

>

> YOu have no answers at all and have admitted to being a smart ass. Yea,

> the

> responses to your posts werent nice, but you asked for it. Did introduce

> yourself and say " Hi fellow colleagues, i'm Dr. Brad WElker, I am on the

> LMT

> board and I Practice out in beautiful Bend, OR. I have been grappling with

> an issue I thought you may be able to help me understand.........

> No, you didn't do that did ya?? You're a first class a***h*** and began

> the

> posts that way, and (given your logic it doesnt surprise me) expected us

> to

> accept you with the warm fuzzies.

>

> You're wasting our time and i frankly don't wish to share any more

> dialogue

> with the likes of you.

>

> You want us to respond to your TRIPE and yet when pressured for answers

> you

> provide nothing except a quip about being illogical.

>

> You've come to this listserve wanting a fight Brad, and looks as if you've

> got it. I think this really shows how incredibly UNPROFESSIONAL you are

> and

> it amazes me that the Massage board would have such charachter on it's

> board.

>

> It also amazes me that a doctor would be willing to completely humiliate

> and

> denigrate himself amongst his fellow practitioners across the state.

>

> I do have to laugh though. Because ultimately Brad, you're going to have a

> tough go of it and karma is sometimes a ruthless beast.

>

> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

> Spine Tree Chiropractic

> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

> Portland, OR 97211

> Ph: 503-788-6800

> c: 503-889-6204

> Re: One last time WelkerDC

>

>> So far I have been waiting for any logical response, thus far have

>> not seen any.

>>

>> Please read the articles I have attached in recent posting, look

>> forward to hearing your response.

>>

>> Thanks,

>>

>> Brad Welker, D.C.

>>

>>> >>

>>> >> Doctor, (if indeed you are a practicing one. Please indicate

>> where

>>> > it is you are from) It is difficult to determine whether or not

>> your

>>> > comments are simply inflammatory or whether you actually don't get

>>> > it. As you have done with me and others, please allow me to do

>> the

>>> > same for you by addressing your points below:

>>> >>

>>> >> You say:

>>> >>

>>> >> " I have discussed this topic with DC's, and MD's.I did not come

>> to

>>> > this understanding until after I had become a DC, mostly came to

>>> > this understanding through much frustration as a DC. "

>>> >>

>>> >> First of all I would argue that you are more confused than clear

>> on

>>> > this subject and have no understanding of it yet. I asked whether

>> or

>>> > not you had this discussion in school because this is one of those

>>> > topics that takes some hashing out to understand. Coming into the

>>> > field without this kowledge or the chance to actually

>> philosphically

>>> > discuss this in the correct forum and hence walking away with the

>>> > proper understanding would lead one to a very frustrated DC

>> indeed.

>>> > So you have answered my question. No, you have not, which

>> displays a

>>> > cleft in your education and you should go back and ask your

>> teachers

>>> > this question not fellow colleagues in this particular forum. It

>>> > would take time. There is nothing i or anyone else can write to

>> you

>>> > that would quell your dissatisfaction with the chiropractic

>> paradigm

>>> > as it stands now. It's a losing proposition and frankly not our

>> job

>>> > to explain/argue the Subluxation principle with you or explain

>> why

>>> > you are in an amazing professional Wellness Care Field.

>>> >>

>>> >> You say:

>>> >>

>>> >> " When a joint, disc, muscle has been injured the body will go

>> into

>>> > a natural guarding mechanism to splint and protect the injury.

>> Does

>>> > this mean that the body is wrong or that we have mis-read the

>>> > situation. "

>>> >>

>>> >> YES! The body can over react- as i stated- to an injury. Again

>> this

>>> > is a topic in which we discussed in philosophy 101- " well arent we

>>> > going agains the body's wishes with ice, after all it's a natural

>>> > response " This is the type of dialague you wish to hash out in

>> this

>>> > forum and unfortunately it's not the correct place. These are the

>>> > things you sort out in shcool and decide whether or not to

>> continue

>>> > chiro school. It's old hat. You should know by now that the body

>> is

>>> > wrong many times. Cancer, excessive inflammation, Hypertonicity,

>>> > Hyperacticve, Hyper Thyroid, etc. etc. etc. Break a bone without

>>> > setting it and watch the body heal, but WAIT, does it heal

>> perfectly?

>>> > Does it lay down too much scar tissue ?????? Do you believe in

>>> > Massage or is that against the barrier? Do you recognize exercise

>> as

>>> > healthy for rehab?? etc. etc. etc.

>>> >>

>>> >> You are operating on the idea that as chiropractors we must

>> believe

>>> > that the body is always right. That simply isn't true. You have

>>> > misunderstood innate intelligence. Innate is more of a

>> potentiality.

>>> > Something the body intends on. Dental Caries. According to you

>> they

>>> > would be left alone, because filling them would go against natural

>>> > order. You see your logic is flawed. The body wants and aims for

>>> > homeostasis, but many times cannot attain it without external

>>> > stimulus.

>>> >>

>>> >> You say:

>>> >>

>>> >> " What I am saying is that the body will heal much faster if we

>> work

>>> > with it instead of against it, ie- work with the natural guarding

>>> > mechanism. "

>>> >>

>>> >> Given your understanding as it is now, how on earth are you going

>>> > to do that aside from sitting back and watching the patient get

>>> > better.? What you say is correct, but chiro's do work with the

>> body.

>>> > You're assuming that we ALL operate under this theory of yours

>> that

>>> > the subluxation is a " gaurding mechanism " Flawed. And it seems you

>>> > want us to give you all the answers.

>>> >>

>>> >> You say:

>>> >>

>>> >> " We can provide much needed help to many patients, but correctly.

>>> > It doesn't make much sense to break a guarding mechanism when the

>>> > guarding mechanism is meant to stabilize. If we manipulate

>> correctly

>>> > we work with the body, if we manipulate incorrectly we slow the

>>> > process and even create instability. "

>>> >>

>>> >> You won't find any argument here on that, but it is in complete

>>> > contradiction to your prior statements. Pray tell, what is YOUR

>>> > definition of manipulating incorrectly vs correctly. What

>> situation

>>> > would you find appropriate given that you feel a fixation is

>>> > a " guarding mechanism " ?

>>> >>

>>> >> In all seriousness, it would benefit you for you to take Dr.

>>> > Abrahamsons advice on Chestnutt. You would have a lot cleared up

>> with

>>> > the proper philosophical educator.

>>> >>

>>> >> Have a great day, I've got bones to move!!!

>>> >>

>>> >> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

>>> >> Spine Tree Chiropractic

>>> >> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

>>> >> Portland, OR 97211

>>> >> Ph: 503-788-6800

>>> >> c: 503-889-6204

>>> >>

>>> >

>>> > OregonDCs rules:

>>> > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve

>> is to

>>> > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on

>> listserve

>>> > members will be tolerated.

>>> > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

>>> > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up

>> anywhere.

>>> > However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print,

>> forward,

>>> > or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member

>> without

>>> > his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been

>> removed.

>>> >

November 8, 2006

Deadmed,

Thanks again for your input, good, bad , indifferent. Wish you well

in practice.

Thanks,

Brad Welker, D.C.

> >> >>

> >> >> Doctor, (if indeed you are a practicing one. Please indicate

> > where

> >> > it is you are from) It is difficult to determine whether or not

> > your

> >> > comments are simply inflammatory or whether you actually don't

get

> >> > it. As you have done with me and others, please allow me to do

> > the

> >> > same for you by addressing your points below:

> >> >>

> >> >> You say:

> >> >>

> >> >> " I have discussed this topic with DC's, and MD's.I did not

come

> > to

> >> > this understanding until after I had become a DC, mostly came

to

> >> > this understanding through much frustration as a DC. "

> >> >>

> >> >> First of all I would argue that you are more confused than

clear

> > on

> >> > this subject and have no understanding of it yet. I asked

whether

> > or

> >> > not you had this discussion in school because this is one of

those

> >> > topics that takes some hashing out to understand. Coming into

the

> >> > field without this kowledge or the chance to actually

> > philosphically

> >> > discuss this in the correct forum and hence walking away with

the

> >> > proper understanding would lead one to a very frustrated DC

> > indeed.

> >> > So you have answered my question. No, you have not, which

> > displays a

> >> > cleft in your education and you should go back and ask your

> > teachers

> >> > this question not fellow colleagues in this particular forum.

It

> >> > would take time. There is nothing i or anyone else can write to

> > you

> >> > that would quell your dissatisfaction with the chiropractic

> > paradigm

> >> > as it stands now. It's a losing proposition and frankly not our

> > job

> >> > to explain/argue the Subluxation principle with you or explain

> > why

> >> > you are in an amazing professional Wellness Care Field.

> >> >>

> >> >> You say:

> >> >>

> >> >> " When a joint, disc, muscle has been injured the body will go

> > into

> >> > a natural guarding mechanism to splint and protect the injury.

> > Does

> >> > this mean that the body is wrong or that we have mis-read the

> >> > situation. "

> >> >>

> >> >> YES! The body can over react- as i stated- to an injury. Again

> > this

> >> > is a topic in which we discussed in philosophy 101- " well arent

we

> >> > going agains the body's wishes with ice, after all it's a

natural

> >> > response " This is the type of dialague you wish to hash out

in

> > this

> >> > forum and unfortunately it's not the correct place. These are

the

> >> > things you sort out in shcool and decide whether or not to

> > continue

> >> > chiro school. It's old hat. You should know by now that the

body

> > is

> >> > wrong many times. Cancer, excessive inflammation,

Hypertonicity,

> >> > Hyperacticve, Hyper Thyroid, etc. etc. etc. Break a bone

without

> >> > setting it and watch the body heal, but WAIT, does it heal

> > perfectly?

> >> > Does it lay down too much scar tissue ?????? Do you believe in

> >> > Massage or is that against the barrier? Do you recognize

exercise

> > as

> >> > healthy for rehab?? etc. etc. etc.

> >> >>

> >> >> You are operating on the idea that as chiropractors we must

> > believe

> >> > that the body is always right. That simply isn't true. You have

> >> > misunderstood innate intelligence. Innate is more of a

> > potentiality.

> >> > Something the body intends on. Dental Caries. According to you

> > they

> >> > would be left alone, because filling them would go against

natural

> >> > order. You see your logic is flawed. The body wants and aims

for

> >> > homeostasis, but many times cannot attain it without external

> >> > stimulus.

> >> >>

> >> >> You say:

> >> >>

> >> >> " What I am saying is that the body will heal much faster if we

> > work

> >> > with it instead of against it, ie- work with the natural

guarding

> >> > mechanism. "

> >> >>

> >> >> Given your understanding as it is now, how on earth are you

going

> >> > to do that aside from sitting back and watching the patient get

> >> > better.? What you say is correct, but chiro's do work with the

> > body.

> >> > You're assuming that we ALL operate under this theory of yours

> > that

> >> > the subluxation is a " gaurding mechanism " Flawed. And it seems

you

> >> > want us to give you all the answers.

> >> >>

> >> >> You say:

> >> >>

> >> >> " We can provide much needed help to many patients, but

correctly.

> >> > It doesn't make much sense to break a guarding mechanism when

the

> >> > guarding mechanism is meant to stabilize. If we manipulate

> > correctly

> >> > we work with the body, if we manipulate incorrectly we slow

the

> >> > process and even create instability. "

> >> >>

> >> >> You won't find any argument here on that, but it is in

complete

> >> > contradiction to your prior statements. Pray tell, what is YOUR

> >> > definition of manipulating incorrectly vs correctly. What

> > situation

> >> > would you find appropriate given that you feel a fixation is

> >> > a " guarding mechanism " ?

> >> >>

> >> >> In all seriousness, it would benefit you for you to take Dr.

> >> > Abrahamsons advice on Chestnutt. You would have a lot cleared

up

> > with

> >> > the proper philosophical educator.

> >> >>

> >> >> Have a great day, I've got bones to move!!!

> >> >>

> >> >> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

> >> >> Spine Tree Chiropractic

> >> >> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

> >> >> Portland, OR 97211

> >> >> Ph: 503-788-6800

> >> >> c: 503-889-6204

> >> >>

> >> >

> >> > OregonDCs rules:

> >> > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the

listserve

> > is to

> >> > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on

> > listserve

> >> > members will be tolerated.

> >> > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> >> > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up

> > anywhere.

> >> > However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy,

print,

> > forward,

> >> > or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another

member

> > without

> >> > his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been

> > removed.

> >> >

November 8, 2006

Correct Theory,

I'd wish you well in practice, but that would be a waste of a wish. You're

transparent patronizing is purely pathetic. Chiropractic is soooooo much

larger than your rediculous theories.

Misery Loves Company, Have fun out there BRAD.

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1627 NE Alberta St. #6

Portland, OR 97211

Ph: 503-788-6800

c: 503-889-6204

Re: One last time WelkerDC

> Deadmed,

>

> Thanks again for your input, good, bad , indifferent. Wish you well

> in practice.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Brad Welker, D.C.

>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Doctor, (if indeed you are a practicing one. Please indicate

>> > where

>> >> > it is you are from) It is difficult to determine whether or not

>> > your

>> >> > comments are simply inflammatory or whether you actually don't

> get

>> >> > it. As you have done with me and others, please allow me to do

>> > the

>> >> > same for you by addressing your points below:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> You say:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> " I have discussed this topic with DC's, and MD's.I did not

> come

>> > to

>> >> > this understanding until after I had become a DC, mostly came

> to

>> >> > this understanding through much frustration as a DC. "

>> >> >>

>> >> >> First of all I would argue that you are more confused than

> clear

>> > on

>> >> > this subject and have no understanding of it yet. I asked

> whether

>> > or

>> >> > not you had this discussion in school because this is one of

> those

>> >> > topics that takes some hashing out to understand. Coming into

> the

>> >> > field without this kowledge or the chance to actually

>> > philosphically

>> >> > discuss this in the correct forum and hence walking away with

> the

>> >> > proper understanding would lead one to a very frustrated DC

>> > indeed.

>> >> > So you have answered my question. No, you have not, which

>> > displays a

>> >> > cleft in your education and you should go back and ask your

>> > teachers

>> >> > this question not fellow colleagues in this particular forum.

> It

>> >> > would take time. There is nothing i or anyone else can write to

>> > you

>> >> > that would quell your dissatisfaction with the chiropractic

>> > paradigm

>> >> > as it stands now. It's a losing proposition and frankly not our

>> > job

>> >> > to explain/argue the Subluxation principle with you or explain

>> > why

>> >> > you are in an amazing professional Wellness Care Field.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> You say:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> " When a joint, disc, muscle has been injured the body will go

>> > into

>> >> > a natural guarding mechanism to splint and protect the injury.

>> > Does

>> >> > this mean that the body is wrong or that we have mis-read the

>> >> > situation. "

>> >> >>

>> >> >> YES! The body can over react- as i stated- to an injury. Again

>> > this

>> >> > is a topic in which we discussed in philosophy 101- " well arent

> we

>> >> > going agains the body's wishes with ice, after all it's a

> natural

>> >> > response " This is the type of dialague you wish to hash out

> in

>> > this

>> >> > forum and unfortunately it's not the correct place. These are

> the

>> >> > things you sort out in shcool and decide whether or not to

>> > continue

>> >> > chiro school. It's old hat. You should know by now that the

> body

>> > is

>> >> > wrong many times. Cancer, excessive inflammation,

> Hypertonicity,

>> >> > Hyperacticve, Hyper Thyroid, etc. etc. etc. Break a bone

> without

>> >> > setting it and watch the body heal, but WAIT, does it heal

>> > perfectly?

>> >> > Does it lay down too much scar tissue ?????? Do you believe in

>> >> > Massage or is that against the barrier? Do you recognize

> exercise

>> > as

>> >> > healthy for rehab?? etc. etc. etc.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> You are operating on the idea that as chiropractors we must

>> > believe

>> >> > that the body is always right. That simply isn't true. You have

>> >> > misunderstood innate intelligence. Innate is more of a

>> > potentiality.

>> >> > Something the body intends on. Dental Caries. According to you

>> > they

>> >> > would be left alone, because filling them would go against

> natural

>> >> > order. You see your logic is flawed. The body wants and aims

> for

>> >> > homeostasis, but many times cannot attain it without external

>> >> > stimulus.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> You say:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> " What I am saying is that the body will heal much faster if we

>> > work

>> >> > with it instead of against it, ie- work with the natural

> guarding

>> >> > mechanism. "

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Given your understanding as it is now, how on earth are you

> going

>> >> > to do that aside from sitting back and watching the patient get

>> >> > better.? What you say is correct, but chiro's do work with the

>> > body.

>> >> > You're assuming that we ALL operate under this theory of yours

>> > that

>> >> > the subluxation is a " gaurding mechanism " Flawed. And it seems

> you

>> >> > want us to give you all the answers.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> You say:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> " We can provide much needed help to many patients, but

> correctly.

>> >> > It doesn't make much sense to break a guarding mechanism when

> the

>> >> > guarding mechanism is meant to stabilize. If we manipulate

>> > correctly

>> >> > we work with the body, if we manipulate incorrectly we slow

> the

>> >> > process and even create instability. "

>> >> >>

>> >> >> You won't find any argument here on that, but it is in

> complete

>> >> > contradiction to your prior statements. Pray tell, what is YOUR

>> >> > definition of manipulating incorrectly vs correctly. What

>> > situation

>> >> > would you find appropriate given that you feel a fixation is

>> >> > a " guarding mechanism " ?

>> >> >>

>> >> >> In all seriousness, it would benefit you for you to take Dr.

>> >> > Abrahamsons advice on Chestnutt. You would have a lot cleared

> up

>> > with

>> >> > the proper philosophical educator.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Have a great day, I've got bones to move!!!

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

>> >> >> Spine Tree Chiropractic

>> >> >> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

>> >> >> Portland, OR 97211

>> >> >> Ph: 503-788-6800

>> >> >> c: 503-889-6204

>> >> >>

>> >> >

>> >> > OregonDCs rules:

>> >> > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the

> listserve

>> > is to

>> >> > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on

>> > listserve

>> >> > members will be tolerated.

>> >> > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

>> >> > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up

>> > anywhere.

>> >> > However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy,

> print,

>> > forward,

>> >> > or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another

> member

>> > without

>> >> > his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been

>> > removed.

>> >> >

November 8, 2006

Dr. Caughlin,

Thank you for your response. Wow, lots of name calling. Does that

make you feel better to call me a derogatory name? Have I approached

you in this manner? I don't think I " asked " for this kind of rude

and unprofessional response. I think even those that may disagree

with me would ask you to take a step back and calm down. There is a

difference between playful banter and this. If you have something

productive to say I would love to respond.

I look forward to professional conversation in the future,

Brad Welker, D.C.

> >>> >>

> >>> >> Doctor, (if indeed you are a practicing one. Please indicate

> >> where

> >>> > it is you are from) It is difficult to determine whether or

not

> >> your

> >>> > comments are simply inflammatory or whether you actually

don't get

> >>> > it. As you have done with me and others, please allow me to

do

> >> the

> >>> > same for you by addressing your points below:

> >>> >>

> >>> >> You say:

> >>> >>

> >>> >> " I have discussed this topic with DC's, and MD's.I did not

come

> >> to

> >>> > this understanding until after I had become a DC, mostly

came to

> >>> > this understanding through much frustration as a DC. "

> >>> >>

> >>> >> First of all I would argue that you are more confused than

clear

> >> on

> >>> > this subject and have no understanding of it yet. I asked

whether

> >> or

> >>> > not you had this discussion in school because this is one of

those

> >>> > topics that takes some hashing out to understand. Coming into

the

> >>> > field without this kowledge or the chance to actually

> >> philosphically

> >>> > discuss this in the correct forum and hence walking away with

the

> >>> > proper understanding would lead one to a very frustrated DC

> >> indeed.

> >>> > So you have answered my question. No, you have not, which

> >> displays a

> >>> > cleft in your education and you should go back and ask your

> >> teachers

> >>> > this question not fellow colleagues in this particular forum.

It

> >>> > would take time. There is nothing i or anyone else can write

to

> >> you

> >>> > that would quell your dissatisfaction with the chiropractic

> >> paradigm

> >>> > as it stands now. It's a losing proposition and frankly not

our

> >> job

> >>> > to explain/argue the Subluxation principle with you or

explain

> >> why

> >>> > you are in an amazing professional Wellness Care Field.

> >>> >>

> >>> >> You say:

> >>> >>

> >>> >> " When a joint, disc, muscle has been injured the body will go

> >> into

> >>> > a natural guarding mechanism to splint and protect the injury.

> >> Does

> >>> > this mean that the body is wrong or that we have mis-read the

> >>> > situation. "

> >>> >>

> >>> >> YES! The body can over react- as i stated- to an injury.

Again

> >> this

> >>> > is a topic in which we discussed in philosophy 101- " well

arent we

> >>> > going agains the body's wishes with ice, after all it's a

natural

> >>> > response " This is the type of dialague you wish to hash out

in

> >> this

> >>> > forum and unfortunately it's not the correct place. These are

the

> >>> > things you sort out in shcool and decide whether or not to

> >> continue

> >>> > chiro school. It's old hat. You should know by now that the

body

> >> is

> >>> > wrong many times. Cancer, excessive inflammation,

Hypertonicity,

> >>> > Hyperacticve, Hyper Thyroid, etc. etc. etc. Break a bone

without

> >>> > setting it and watch the body heal, but WAIT, does it heal

> >> perfectly?

> >>> > Does it lay down too much scar tissue ?????? Do you believe in

> >>> > Massage or is that against the barrier? Do you recognize

exercise

> >> as

> >>> > healthy for rehab?? etc. etc. etc.

> >>> >>

> >>> >> You are operating on the idea that as chiropractors we must

> >> believe

> >>> > that the body is always right. That simply isn't true. You

have

> >>> > misunderstood innate intelligence. Innate is more of a

> >> potentiality.

> >>> > Something the body intends on. Dental Caries. According to you

> >> they

> >>> > would be left alone, because filling them would go against

natural

> >>> > order. You see your logic is flawed. The body wants and aims

for

> >>> > homeostasis, but many times cannot attain it without external

> >>> > stimulus.

> >>> >>

> >>> >> You say:

> >>> >>

> >>> >> " What I am saying is that the body will heal much faster if

we

> >> work

> >>> > with it instead of against it, ie- work with the natural

guarding

> >>> > mechanism. "

> >>> >>

> >>> >> Given your understanding as it is now, how on earth are you

going

> >>> > to do that aside from sitting back and watching the patient

get

> >>> > better.? What you say is correct, but chiro's do work with

the

> >> body.

> >>> > You're assuming that we ALL operate under this theory of yours

> >> that

> >>> > the subluxation is a " gaurding mechanism " Flawed. And it

seems you

> >>> > want us to give you all the answers.

> >>> >>

> >>> >> You say:

> >>> >>

> >>> >> " We can provide much needed help to many patients, but

correctly.

> >>> > It doesn't make much sense to break a guarding mechanism when

the

> >>> > guarding mechanism is meant to stabilize. If we manipulate

> >> correctly

> >>> > we work with the body, if we manipulate incorrectly we slow

the

> >>> > process and even create instability. "

> >>> >>

> >>> >> You won't find any argument here on that, but it is in

complete

> >>> > contradiction to your prior statements. Pray tell, what is

YOUR

> >>> > definition of manipulating incorrectly vs correctly. What

> >> situation

> >>> > would you find appropriate given that you feel a fixation is

> >>> > a " guarding mechanism " ?

> >>> >>

> >>> >> In all seriousness, it would benefit you for you to take Dr.

> >>> > Abrahamsons advice on Chestnutt. You would have a lot cleared

up

> >> with

> >>> > the proper philosophical educator.

> >>> >>

> >>> >> Have a great day, I've got bones to move!!!

> >>> >>

> >>> >> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

> >>> >> Spine Tree Chiropractic

> >>> >> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

> >>> >> Portland, OR 97211

> >>> >> Ph: 503-788-6800

> >>> >> c: 503-889-6204

> >>> >>

> >>> >

> >>> > OregonDCs rules:

> >>> > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the

listserve

> >> is to

> >>> > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on

> >> listserve

> >>> > members will be tolerated.

> >>> > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> >>> > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up

> >> anywhere.

> >>> > However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy,

print,

> >> forward,

> >>> > or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another

member

> >> without

> >>> > his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been

> >> removed.

> >>> >

November 8, 2006

Deadmed,

Thank you for your thoughts. Again, if you have anything productive

to add I would be happy to respond. At this point all I am seeing is

2nd grade derogatory antics.

I wish you well.

Brad Welker,D.C.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Doctor, (if indeed you are a practicing one. Please

indicate

> >> > where

> >> >> > it is you are from) It is difficult to determine whether or

not

> >> > your

> >> >> > comments are simply inflammatory or whether you actually

don't

> > get

> >> >> > it. As you have done with me and others, please allow me

to do

> >> > the

> >> >> > same for you by addressing your points below:

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> You say:

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> " I have discussed this topic with DC's, and MD's.I did not

> > come

> >> > to

> >> >> > this understanding until after I had become a DC, mostly

came

> > to

> >> >> > this understanding through much frustration as a DC. "

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> First of all I would argue that you are more confused than

> > clear

> >> > on

> >> >> > this subject and have no understanding of it yet. I asked

> > whether

> >> > or

> >> >> > not you had this discussion in school because this is one of

> > those

> >> >> > topics that takes some hashing out to understand. Coming

into

> > the

> >> >> > field without this kowledge or the chance to actually

> >> > philosphically

> >> >> > discuss this in the correct forum and hence walking away

with

> > the

> >> >> > proper understanding would lead one to a very frustrated DC

> >> > indeed.

> >> >> > So you have answered my question. No, you have not, which

> >> > displays a

> >> >> > cleft in your education and you should go back and ask your

> >> > teachers

> >> >> > this question not fellow colleagues in this particular

forum.

> > It

> >> >> > would take time. There is nothing i or anyone else can

write to

> >> > you

> >> >> > that would quell your dissatisfaction with the chiropractic

> >> > paradigm

> >> >> > as it stands now. It's a losing proposition and frankly not

our

> >> > job

> >> >> > to explain/argue the Subluxation principle with you or

explain

> >> > why

> >> >> > you are in an amazing professional Wellness Care Field.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> You say:

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> " When a joint, disc, muscle has been injured the body will

go

> >> > into

> >> >> > a natural guarding mechanism to splint and protect the

injury.

> >> > Does

> >> >> > this mean that the body is wrong or that we have mis-read

the

> >> >> > situation. "

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> YES! The body can over react- as i stated- to an injury.

Again

> >> > this

> >> >> > is a topic in which we discussed in philosophy 101- " well

arent

> > we

> >> >> > going agains the body's wishes with ice, after all it's a

> > natural

> >> >> > response " This is the type of dialague you wish to hash

out

> > in

> >> > this

> >> >> > forum and unfortunately it's not the correct place. These

are

> > the

> >> >> > things you sort out in shcool and decide whether or not to

> >> > continue

> >> >> > chiro school. It's old hat. You should know by now that the

> > body

> >> > is

> >> >> > wrong many times. Cancer, excessive inflammation,

> > Hypertonicity,

> >> >> > Hyperacticve, Hyper Thyroid, etc. etc. etc. Break a bone

> > without

> >> >> > setting it and watch the body heal, but WAIT, does it heal

> >> > perfectly?

> >> >> > Does it lay down too much scar tissue ?????? Do you believe

in

> >> >> > Massage or is that against the barrier? Do you recognize

> > exercise

> >> > as

> >> >> > healthy for rehab?? etc. etc. etc.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> You are operating on the idea that as chiropractors we must

> >> > believe

> >> >> > that the body is always right. That simply isn't true. You

have

> >> >> > misunderstood innate intelligence. Innate is more of a

> >> > potentiality.

> >> >> > Something the body intends on. Dental Caries. According to

you

> >> > they

> >> >> > would be left alone, because filling them would go against

> > natural

> >> >> > order. You see your logic is flawed. The body wants and aims

> > for

> >> >> > homeostasis, but many times cannot attain it without

external

> >> >> > stimulus.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> You say:

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> " What I am saying is that the body will heal much faster

if we

> >> > work

> >> >> > with it instead of against it, ie- work with the natural

> > guarding

> >> >> > mechanism. "

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Given your understanding as it is now, how on earth are you

> > going

> >> >> > to do that aside from sitting back and watching the patient

get

> >> >> > better.? What you say is correct, but chiro's do work with

the

> >> > body.

> >> >> > You're assuming that we ALL operate under this theory of

yours

> >> > that

> >> >> > the subluxation is a " gaurding mechanism " Flawed. And it

seems

> > you

> >> >> > want us to give you all the answers.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> You say:

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> " We can provide much needed help to many patients, but

> > correctly.

> >> >> > It doesn't make much sense to break a guarding mechanism

when

> > the

> >> >> > guarding mechanism is meant to stabilize. If we manipulate

> >> > correctly

> >> >> > we work with the body, if we manipulate incorrectly we slow

> > the

> >> >> > process and even create instability. "

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> You won't find any argument here on that, but it is in

> > complete

> >> >> > contradiction to your prior statements. Pray tell, what is

YOUR

> >> >> > definition of manipulating incorrectly vs correctly. What

> >> > situation

> >> >> > would you find appropriate given that you feel a fixation is

> >> >> > a " guarding mechanism " ?

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> In all seriousness, it would benefit you for you to take

Dr.

> >> >> > Abrahamsons advice on Chestnutt. You would have a lot

cleared

> > up

> >> > with

> >> >> > the proper philosophical educator.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Have a great day, I've got bones to move!!!

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

> >> >> >> Spine Tree Chiropractic

> >> >> >> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

> >> >> >> Portland, OR 97211

> >> >> >> Ph: 503-788-6800

> >> >> >> c: 503-889-6204

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >

> >> >> > OregonDCs rules:

> >> >> > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the

> > listserve

> >> > is to

> >> >> > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks

on

> >> > listserve

> >> >> > members will be tolerated.

> >> >> > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> >> >> > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up

> >> > anywhere.

> >> >> > However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy,

> > print,

> >> > forward,

> >> >> > or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another

> > member

> >> > without

> >> >> > his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have

been

> >> > removed.

> >> >> >

Sign In

Re: One last time WelkerDC

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Join the conversation

Activity