Re: Prostate cancer and ALA (was Walnuts, Flax, and ALMONDS?)

[Guest guest]

Todd wrote:

>

>

> >Rodney wrote:

> >

> >>Al wrote:

> >> The latest and well done study (prospective study) of

> >> the association of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) with

> >> protate cancer is:

> >> ...

> >> Koralek DO, s U, Andriole G, Reding D, Kirsh V,

> >> Subar A, Schatzkin A, R, Leitzmann MF.

> >> A prospective study of dietary alpha-linolenic acid

> >> and the risk of prostate cancer (United States).

> >> Cancer Causes Control. 2006 Aug;17(6):783-91.

> >> PMID: 16783606

> >> ...

> >> CONCLUSIONS: In this prospective study of

> >> predominantly Caucasian men who were screened annually

> >> for newly incident prostate cancer, dietary intake of

> >> total ALA and ALA from specific food sources was not

> >> associated with risk of total prostate cancer or

> >> prostate tumors that were defined by stage and grade.

> >

> >Hmmmmm. Thank you for that reference. So now we have one that

> >denies the connection.

>

> Rodney,

>

> There's more than *one* such study.

> I think it's more accurate to say that there has been controversy.

> Here's another not too old study indicating

> " Among polyunsaturated fatty acids,

> linolenic acid (OR = 0.7; 95% CI: 0.6-0.9) and

> linoleic acid (OR = 0.8; 95% CI: 0.6-1.0)

> were inversely related to prostate cancer. "

>

> Bidoli E, Talamini R, Bosetti C, Negri E, Maruzzi D, Montella M,

> Franceschi S, La Vecchia C.

> Macronutrients, fatty acids, cholesterol and prostate cancer risk.

> Ann Oncol. 2005 Jan;16(1):152-7.

>

> Servizio di Epidemiologia e Biostatistica,

> Centro di Riferimento Oncologico, Aviano (PN), Italy.

>

> BACKGROUND: The role of selected macronutrients, fatty acids and

> cholesterol in the etiology of prostate cancer was analyzed using

> data from a case-control study carried out in five Italian areas

> between 1991 and 2002.

> PATIENTS AND METHODS: Cases were 1294 men with incident,

> histologically confirmed prostate cancer, and admitted to the

> major teaching and general hospitals of study areas. Controls were

> 1451 men admitted for acute, non-neoplastic conditions to the same

> hospital network.

>

> PMID: 15598953

>

I forgot to search for previous messages referencing this PMID before

posting the above message. I now see that Rodney referenced the same

PMID 15598953 in April 2006, but he didn't explicitly mention the

report of an inverse relationship between linolenic acid and prostate

cancer.

Thanks,

Todd

[Guest guest]

--- toddsprenkle <toddsprenkle@...> wrote:

> >Rodney wrote:

> >

> >>Al wrote:

> >> The latest and well done study (prospective

> study) of

> >> the association of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA)

> with

> >> protate cancer is:

> >> ...

> >> Koralek DO, s U, Andriole G, Reding D, Kirsh

> V,

> >> Subar A, Schatzkin A, R, Leitzmann MF.

> >> A prospective study of dietary alpha-linolenic

> acid

> >> and the risk of prostate cancer (United States).

> >> Cancer Causes Control. 2006 Aug;17(6):783-91.

> >> PMID: 16783606

> >> ...

> >> CONCLUSIONS: In this prospective study of

> >> predominantly Caucasian men who were screened

> annually

> >> for newly incident prostate cancer, dietary

> intake of

> >> total ALA and ALA from specific food sources was

> not

> >> associated with risk of total prostate cancer or

> >> prostate tumors that were defined by stage and

> grade.

> >

> >Hmmmmm. Thank you for that reference. So now we

> have one that

> >denies the connection.

>

> There's more than *one* such study.

> I think it's more accurate to say that there has

> been controversy.

> Here's another not too old study indicating

> " Among polyunsaturated fatty acids,

> linolenic acid (OR = 0.7; 95% CI: 0.6-0.9) and

> linoleic acid (OR = 0.8; 95% CI: 0.6-1.0)

> were inversely related to prostate cancer. "

>

> Bidoli E, Talamini R, Bosetti C, Negri E, Maruzzi D,

> Montella M,

> Franceschi S, La Vecchia C.

> Macronutrients, fatty acids, cholesterol and

> prostate cancer risk.

> Ann Oncol. 2005 Jan;16(1):152-7.

>

> data from a case-control study carried out in five

> Italian areas

> between 1991 and 2002.

>

> PMID: 15598953

Hi All,

Case-control experiments do not have the level of

confidence that prospective, and even better,

randomized control, experiments have.

-- Al Pater, PhD; email: Alpater@...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> > PMID: 15598953

>

> Hi All,

>

> Case-control experiments do not have the level of

> confidence that prospective, and even better,

> randomized control, experiments have.

>

Yes, Al, and you (correctly) made that same point in response

to Rodney's *original* mention of exactly the same study in

this forum in January 2005:

" This was not a prospective study. It found that adjustment

allowed only the polyunsaturated level to be associated with

lower prostate cancer risk. ALA helped better than LA.

Cheers, Al Pater. "

It's interesting to me how easily we forget past studies

that don't support our current favored viewpoint. [This happens

to me too, of course.] I was bothered just enough by Rodney's

recent claim of now having just 'one' study indicating that ALA

isn't associated with increased prostate cancer to look up

another study -- because my favored viewpoint differs from his.

[My Dad died of prostate cancer, yet I consume 1 Tbsp fresh

ground flax seed as part of my breakfast because I think it is

beneficial and don't think it is likely to increase my risk of

prostate cancer.]

[i feel similarly about recent monounsaturated fat discussions

in this forum -- that there isn't a clear answer at this time

and that recent discussions have seemed unbalanced, probably

because of an insufficient number of posters representing

opposing viewpoints.]

Thanks,

Todd

[Guest guest]

Hi Todd:

A couple of points in response:

" ......... I consume 1 Tbsp fresh ground flax seed as part of my

breakfast because ....... "

I don't (!) but, of course, you may turn out to be right. My

suspicion is that the ALA >>> prostate cancer connection may depend

on whether the source consumed is often infected with aflatoxin or

not. This likely means that risk is associated with where you live

in the country. **IF** this speculation is correct then the risk

will vary by crop type; the weather/climate in the region of the

country where the crop was grown; and the weather around the time of

harvest each year. Certainly this is a logical explanation for the

variations in study findings. But that does not mean it is right!

We will eventually know, presumably.

But I do not believe people on CRON need the extra CVD protection

that ALA apparently affords. And there are LOTS of other ways to

help avoid prostate cancer, which I posted here a couple of years

ago. So, my approach is, why take the risk? I do not go out of my

way to consume ALA for these reasons.

" [i feel similarly about recent monounsaturated fat discussions

in this forum -- that there isn't a clear answer at this time

and that recent discussions have seemed unbalanced, probably

because of an insufficient number of posters representing

opposing viewpoints.] "

First, it seems to me that there is little in health research (apart

from CRON, LOL) for which there is an unequivocal **clear** answer.

Second, the way to change any supposedly prevailing view here is to

post the studies which show otherwise. Not many of us here are

closed minded to evidence from serious studies. That is where most

of us acquired our current views.

***But someone has to post these opposing studies!!!!***. I post

them if I trip over them, as you were kind enough to point out.

Third, as regards olive oil (monounsaturated), I will never be

persuaded of benefit by studies that show it to be better when the

control group is on the SAD diet. But I will certainly be influenced

if someone will post studies showing that the health of people who

are eating a healthy diet WITH olive oil is better than that of those

eating a healthy diet WITHOUT it. Indeed I have posted one such

case/control study here which shows the opposite. It showed that the

minority in Crete who **do** suffer CVD consume larger amounts of

olive oil than those who do not have CVD.

Of course if there are other studies of olive oil that do not entail

comparison with people on a SAD diet, ***please post them!!!***

Thank you : ^ )))

Rodney.

> > > PMID: 15598953

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > Case-control experiments do not have the level of

> > confidence that prospective, and even better,

> > randomized control, experiments have.

> >

>

> Yes, Al, and you (correctly) made that same point in response

> to Rodney's *original* mention of exactly the same study in

> this forum in January 2005:

>

> " This was not a prospective study. It found that adjustment

> allowed only the polyunsaturated level to be associated with

> lower prostate cancer risk. ALA helped better than LA.

> Cheers, Al Pater. "

>

> It's interesting to me how easily we forget past studies

> that don't support our current favored viewpoint. [This happens

> to me too, of course.] I was bothered just enough by Rodney's

> recent claim of now having just 'one' study indicating that ALA

> isn't associated with increased prostate cancer to look up

> another study -- because my favored viewpoint differs from his.

> [My Dad died of prostate cancer, yet I consume 1 Tbsp fresh

> ground flax seed as part of my breakfast because I think it is

> beneficial and don't think it is likely to increase my risk of

> prostate cancer.]

>

> [i feel similarly about recent monounsaturated fat discussions

> in this forum -- that there isn't a clear answer at this time

> and that recent discussions have seemed unbalanced, probably

> because of an insufficient number of posters representing

> opposing viewpoints.]

>

> Thanks,

> Todd

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Will the below pdf-availed paper suffice, Rodney?

Estruch R, ez- MA, Corella D,

Salas-Salvado J, Ruiz-Gutierrez V, Covas MI, Fiol M,

Gomez-Gracia E, -Sabater MC, Vinyoles E, Aros F,

Conde M, Lahoz C, Lapetra J, Saez G, Ros E; PREDIMED

Study Investigators.

Effects of a Mediterranean-style diet on

cardiovascular risk factors: a randomized trial.

Ann Intern Med. 2006 Jul 4;145(1):1-11.

PMID: 16818923 http://tinyurl.com/y9qwza

.... multicenter, randomized, primary prevention trial

of cardiovascular disease (Prevencion con Dieta

Mediterranea [PREDIMED] Study). ... 772 asymptomatic

persons 55 to 80 years of age at high cardiovascular

risk who were recruited from October 2003 to March

2004. Interventions: Participants were assigned to a

low-fat diet (n = 257) or to 1 of 2 Mediterranean

diets. Those allocated to Mediterranean diets received

nutritional education and either free virgin olive

oil, 1 liter per week (n = 257), or free nuts, 30 g/d

(n = 258). ... RESULTS: The completion rate was 99.6%.

Compared with the low-fat diet, the 2 Mediterranean

diets produced beneficial changes in most outcomes.

Compared with the low-fat diet, the mean changes in

the Mediterranean diet with olive oil group and the

Mediterranean diet with nuts group were -0.39 mmol/L

(95% CI, -0.70 to -0.07 mmol/L) and -0.30 mmol/L (CI,

-0.58 to -0.01 mmol/L), respectively, for plasma

glucose levels; -5.9 mm Hg (CI, -8.7 to -3.1 mm Hg)

and -7.1 mm Hg (CI, -10.0 to -4.1 mm Hg),

respectively, for systolic blood pressure; and -0.38

(CI, -0.55 to -0.22) and - 0.26 (CI, -0.42 to -0.10),

respectively, for the cholesterol-high-density

lipoprotein cholesterol ratio. The Mediterranean diet

with olive oil reduced C-reactive protein levels by

0.54 mg/L (CI, 1.04 to 0.03 mg/L) compared with the

low-fat diet. LIMITATIONS: This short-term study did

not focus on clinical outcomes. Nutritional education

about low-fat diet was less intense than education

about Mediterranean diets. CONCLUSION: Compared with a

low-fat diet, Mediterranean diets supplemented with

olive oil or nuts have beneficial effects on

cardiovascular risk factors.

--- Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote:

> as regards olive oil (monounsaturated), I

> will never be

> persuaded of benefit by studies that show it to be

> better when the

> control group is on the SAD diet. But I will

> certainly be influenced

> if someone will post studies showing that the health

> of people who

> are eating a healthy diet WITH olive oil is better

> than that of those

> eating a healthy diet WITHOUT it. Indeed I have

> posted one such

> case/control study here which shows the opposite.

> It showed that the

> minority in Crete who **do** suffer CVD consume

> larger amounts of

> olive oil than those who do not have CVD.

>

> Of course if there are other studies of olive oil

> that do not entail

> comparison with people on a SAD diet, ***please post

> them!!!***

-- Al Pater, PhD; email: Alpater@...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I previously discussed this study.. Not only didn't the low fat group receive

any ongoing education as the two MED diet groups did... The diet they were

recommended was the AHA diet... Which is neither a low fat diet nor is it a

healthy diet. The low fat groupb made little if any changes and so once again

the comparison was a MED diet to the typical SAD american diet

[Guest guest]

Hi Al:

I would need to see in detail how the diets compared. You may

remember one french study which was posted here a couple of years ago

which showed, so it claimed, that the Medterranean diet was superior

to a low fat diet. But the data the study contained indicated not

only that the supposed low fat diet was NOT a low fat diet at all,

but that ***it contained MORE fat than the 'Mediterranean diet' it

was tested against***. It is difficult to believe some of this stuff

ever gets past the editors.

So if it matters, and of course all of us here think it does very

much matter, one needs to read the fine print very carefully as well

as the headline.

Rodney.

>

> > as regards olive oil (monounsaturated), I

> > will never be

> > persuaded of benefit by studies that show it to be

> > better when the

> > control group is on the SAD diet. But I will

> > certainly be influenced

> > if someone will post studies showing that the health

> > of people who

> > are eating a healthy diet WITH olive oil is better

> > than that of those

> > eating a healthy diet WITHOUT it. Indeed I have

> > posted one such

> > case/control study here which shows the opposite.

> > It showed that the

> > minority in Crete who **do** suffer CVD consume

> > larger amounts of

> > olive oil than those who do not have CVD.

> >

> > Of course if there are other studies of olive oil

> > that do not entail

> > comparison with people on a SAD diet, ***please post

> > them!!!***

>

> -- Al Pater, PhD; email: Alpater@...

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Al:

>

> I would need to see in detail how the diets compared. You may

> remember one french study which was posted here a couple of years

ago

> which showed, so it claimed, that the Medterranean diet was

superior

> to a low fat diet. But the data the study contained indicated not

> only that the supposed low fat diet was NOT a low fat diet at all,

> but that ***it contained MORE fat than the 'Mediterranean diet' it

> was tested against***. It is difficult to believe some of this

stuff

> ever gets past the editors.

>

> So if it matters, and of course all of us here think it does very

> much matter, one needs to read the fine print very carefully as

well

> as the headline.

>

> Rodney.

>

So what's our best guess?

Eat only the RDA for essential fatty acids?

Which we can get in an ounce of walnuts.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi JW:

Well as with almost everything, the jury is still out.

But yes, I am gradually coming around to the view that it may be

healthiest to get only the RDA for fats. Especially since seeing a

study of rats which found heart damage from larger amounts of

linoleic.

And since we get some fat from just about everything, we may not even

need the walnuts. But I haven't checked my data to see if I get

enough without 'supplementing' with something with a higher healthy

fat content. But I do splurge sometimes on the weekends which I am

fairly sure gives me more than plenty of the essenatial fats.

For now I will continue with the fish. Most often high fat species,

less frequently low fat.

Rodney.

> >

> > Hi Al:

> >

> > I would need to see in detail how the diets compared. You may

> > remember one french study which was posted here a couple of years

> ago

> > which showed, so it claimed, that the Medterranean diet was

> superior

> > to a low fat diet. But the data the study contained indicated

not

> > only that the supposed low fat diet was NOT a low fat diet at

all,

> > but that ***it contained MORE fat than the 'Mediterranean diet'

it

> > was tested against***. It is difficult to believe some of this

> stuff

> > ever gets past the editors.

> >

> > So if it matters, and of course all of us here think it does very

> > much matter, one needs to read the fine print very carefully as

> well

> > as the headline.

> >

> > Rodney.

> >

> So what's our best guess?

> Eat only the RDA for essential fatty acids?

> Which we can get in an ounce of walnuts.

>

> Regards.

>

[Guest guest]

I can't disagree with a little fish.

Many articles and Ornish have said that.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Prostate cancer and ALA (was Walnuts, Flax, and ALMONDS?)

Hi JW:Well as with almost everything, the jury is still out.But yes, I am gradually coming around to the view that it may be healthiest to get only the RDA for fats. Especially since seeing a study of rats which found heart damage from larger amounts of linoleic.And since we get some fat from just about everything, we may not even need the walnuts. But I haven't checked my data to see if I get enough without 'supplementing' with something with a higher healthy fat content. But I do splurge sometimes on the weekends which I am fairly sure gives me more than plenty of the essenatial fats.For now I will continue with the fish. Most often high fat species, less frequently low fat.Rodney.

..