Re: menu plans and weightloss

[Guest guest]

>My question is can

>we eat to much fat? Is my 65-75% fat range to high? I thought it

>was better to eat a high fat diet. I know fat was a major thing

>that was missing in my old diet and why I ate so many avocados.

>This balancing act is a hard thing to do!

Personally I don't think the percent of fat per se matters too

much -- as long as you get the right nutrients. Too much

protein can damage your kidneys, but fat doesn't have

that issue.

But you CAN get too many calories. Really, calories DO count -- if you

are in ketosis you don't use them as efficiently, most likely,

and most people get more satiated on fat and eat more

reasonably, but if one has a weight problem, one should

look at how many calories are really going in. Fat is very

concentrated, and you can't just pig out on it like you

can celery or carrots. MOST people won't eat too much

fat, they have a " turn off " switch, but I'm not sure

that is true for all people.

I do not have good sense about how much to eat, myself.

I use the Body for Life style portion control -- about 4 oz

meat, 6 oz starch, 2Tb fat and some vegies at each meal. But

no starch at dinner. I varied that til I found what actually

satisfied me AFTER the meal. Then I just serve myself

that much at each meal, and avoid snacking (unless

I really need it). I really can't eat til I'm " full " because

I don't seem to ever get full until half an hour or an

hour after eating.

Eating too much is hard on your system -- it has to

deal with all that extra *stuff.* If your appestat isn't working

ideally, you have to use your brain. Eating less

I have more energy, but I'm not starving, just eating

" enough " .

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

Perhaps I do need to lower my protein intake. I'll go back

over my food diary at www.fitday.com and see where I can cut it to

go between 15-20%.

The fats I eat are butter, olive oil, coconut oil, and whatever

the fat content is of the meat I'm eating at the time.

Lynn mentioned in a reply to you about eating to much fat,

because it tasted so good after low-fat dieting. My question is can

we eat to much fat? Is my 65-75% fat range to high? I thought it

was better to eat a high fat diet. I know fat was a major thing

that was missing in my old diet and why I ate so many avocados.

This balancing act is a hard thing to do!

Robin

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Robin-

>

> >I've been eating

> >between 20-25 grams carbs, with 65-75% of my diet being fat and

> >aprox. 24% of my diet being protein, but I haven't been able to

lose

> >any weight eating this way.

>

> It's possible that you need to cut your protein intake somewhat.

In a

> recent Wise Traditions (the most recent?) the WAPF board published

food

> diaries recounting what they'd each eaten for a few days, and I

think in

> all cases their protein consumption accounted for about 15-20% of

their

> calories.

>

> It's also possible that you need to retool your fat consumption to

be more

> saturated. The more saturated a fat, the more thermogenic and the

more

> helpful it is for weight loss.

>

> Just a couple ideas.

>

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

I thought it was a different suggestion too, so why I wanted to know

more about it. My thinking was since I like fruits so much, I could

save up my carbs to have a fruit of choice and not feel like I'm

missing out on them. I don't eat starchy foods and rarely even have

starchy vegetables. I'd like to see this article on the low

bioavailability of fruits and veggies and how cooking added

calories. I do eat cooked vegetables now, where I never use to.

Perhaps this is part of my problem. We'll steam up some broccoli or

asparagus, etc. for dinner and have that with a salad, and meat of

choice. Dinner is about the only time I eat cooked veggies though.

Actually, I was thinking of going back to my all fruit for breakfast

(carbs for energy, like you said). Salads for lunch and the dinner

as I described above. Right now, I've been eating eggs for

breakfast, sometimes with cheese and sometimes with bacon. Salad

with meat or cheese for lunch and the dinner I described above.

Perhaps is right and it is to much protein for me. I was just

worried about the carbs in the fruit, as fruit is a big no-no on

Atkins. Plus, eating them so early in the day, that I'd run out of

carbs by evening. However, perhaps the salads minus the steamed

veggies wouldn't be a bad idea either, so I can have fruits earlier

in the day. It just seems like everyone pushes the veggies over the

fruit though, so I'm just not sure if I should do that.

Robin

>

> >I liked your suggestion of saving your carbs for the end of the

> >day. Could you expand on why the Polish doctor recommends this

for

> >those that have a difficult time losing weight?

>

> That IS a different suggestion. Most people are recommending

> the opposite -- Cliff Sheats (who has lots of practical

suggestions)

> says that women who have problems with fat retention should

> avoid starches after 6 pm. Starches are best used for energy,

> and most of us do little work in the evening (when we are

> winding down). My weight loss works much better with

> starches in the morning and noon only.

>

> Carbs like raw carrots or apples don't seem to put on

> weight for anyone -- there is low bioavailability in raw

> fruit and vegies (there was a whole article about how

> cooking made it possible for our ancestors to get

> more calories!).

>

> And lower-fat diets DO work in the short run --

> maybe because to handle the protein the body

> has to raid it's fat stores? Low fat plus coconut

> oil or MCT (a part of coconut oil, not as healthy

> but good for weight loss) works too.

>

> Anyway, you might try a combo between the vegan

> ways that worked (but made you sick) and the NT

> ways that make you healthy (but might put on

> weight). Eat NT in the morning to get the energy,

> the switch to raw fruits and vegies and leaner meats

> in the evening. Or something like that.

>

>

> Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Thanks Matt,

Your client sounds like me. I read The Metabolic Typing Diet

and came out to a mixed type, but I'm not sure where on the range

exactly. Here I've been doing low carbing for the past 2 1/2 months

and I haven't dropped a pound. When I was a raw vegan I dropped a

lot of weight, no protein, little fat and lots of carbs. I had a

doctor tell me once my diet was great then, but I needed to eat more

protein and he recommended Nourishing Traditions to me. Therefore,

I've been thinking I'm more of a mixed/carb type. I could never go

back to a vegan diet, so would you mind sharing with me the diet

plan you put this client on? What did she eat, when, etc.???

Robin

--- In , " Matt Pack " <training@m...>

wrote:

> ZARA,

>

> I have client that I put on basicly a cave-man diet a couple

of months

> ago and to no avail her weight didn't budge. We both were

extremely

> frusterated! During this period I was getting certified as an

intermediate

> metabolic typer, I'm already capable of doing the beginner test so

I tested

> her. She came out as a mixed type but so so close to a carb type.

In other

> words I had her eating High Protein/High good Fat when she needed

Lower

> amounts Proteins and Low purine fats along with more than what I

would like

> Carb ratio. To make a long story short she dropped 15 pounds and 4

inches,

> lost her lower abdominal blotedness and tire around her mid-

section and no

> more stomach aches. So anyways I recommend getting Metabolic Typed

or

> reading Metabolic Typing Diet by Wolcott. Their is no such

thing as

> a one size fits all diet! I'm convinced of that especially after

this last

> experiance.

>

> Matt Pack

> Impack Training Services

> Arlington, Va

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >From: " kimbriel2002 " <kimbrielmorrison@h...>

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: Re: menu plans and weightloss

> >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 02:06:11 -0000

> >

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*

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>

[Guest guest]

>Right now, I've been eating eggs for

>breakfast, sometimes with cheese and sometimes with bacon. Salad

>with meat or cheese for lunch and the dinner I described above.

>Perhaps is right and it is to much protein for me. I was just

>worried about the carbs in the fruit, as fruit is a big no-no on

>Atkins.

I'm not sure anyone can answer that for another person. Try

x protein, y fat, z carbs at each meal for a week, see how you

feel, see what your weight does. Maybe you need less protein,

maybe you need more fruit, maybe you need more celery.

Experimentation is good!

Some kinds of calories DO store easier as fat than others,

but high-fiber foods in general seem to be better for

weight loss. Whole fruit acts a LOT different than fruit

juice, a fact that tends to get obscured when people talk

about " carbs " .

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Robin,

The metabolic test in the book is very basic! Almost all the client

I've tested from the basic test was mixed. It's frusterating because being a

mixed type is the hardest type for most people. When I first took the test

at the Nutrition Lifestyle Course given by Chek in San Diego I came out

mixed as well. The most accurate test is the intermediate test which is

computer based and is much more in depth. I took this test and came out a

true protein type, fast oxidizer. This is the type of diet that I've alway

felt comfortable on. As far as my client was concerned her basic test scores

were as follows: Total A= 20, Total B=22, Total C= 20. This is technically a

mixed but if you look closely it's very close to a carbo type. I asked her

when she was the most happiest with her weight and she explained law school.

She then said her roomate was vegetarian and she ate mostly everything that

she ate. AHAA!! I place her on the carb type meal plan and she ate only off

of her carb type allowable foods chart. Since January she has lost 14 pounds

and 8 inches off her waist. NOT BAD!

So I recommend looking at your scores more closely or going through Health

Excel and taking the intermediate test. I don't believe in vegetarianism or

veganism myself. No offense. I think everyone is different their for

everyone will respond to the different ratio's of Proteins, Carbs and Fats.

I'm working on my intermediate certification as we speak so I may be able to

help you more very soon.

Matt Pack

IMpack Training Services

CHEK 1

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>From: " primalmother " <Nest4Robin@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: menu plans and weightloss

>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 01:43:57 -0000

>

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[Guest guest]

Lynn,

My client age is 32. I don't think anyone should stop consuming animal

products they have too many good qualities. A diet too low in natural fats

and oils containing essential fatty acids is dangerous and cause serious

health problems. However, of the three metabolic types, the carb type

requires less fat. So, sorry Sally I think your mother would probaly do much

better on a low fat diet. But not no FAT!!! If you don't get enough fat it

could cause fatigue, diminished performance, hunger soon after eating,

decreased fingernail strength, lack of concentration etc.. I havn't

metabolic typed her but from what you've told me she may be better on

something like a 60% carb, 20% protein, 20% fat. She might do better only

eating 3 meals a day! Still needs protein(ex.chicken,turkeybreast,lean

pork,ham and most light fishes) at every meal but her body will do betteer

with a concederable amount of carbs(Low glycemic ex. green vegetables and

sweet potato's). Don't get me wrong this isn't the green light to start

eating pasta and bagels, I'm a firm believer of glycemic control. So balance

blood sugar accordingly. If their is too much insulin roaming around it's

impossible to burn fat!

Matt Pack

Impack Training Services

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>From: " Lynn Razaitis " <lyn122@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: menu plans and weightloss

>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:57:23 -0000

>

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[Guest guest]

Robin-

>My question is can

>we eat to much fat? Is my 65-75% fat range to high? I thought it

>was better to eat a high fat diet. I know fat was a major thing

>that was missing in my old diet and why I ate so many avocados.

>This balancing act is a hard thing to do!

You can eat too much of the sorts of fat you shouldn't have at all or of

the sorts you need in small quantities, but if you're not overstimulating

insulin production, I don't think you can eat too much saturated animal

fat, because in the absence of sugar and starch, it satisfies the appetite

very well.

-

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Matt Pack " <training@m...>

wrote:

>The metabolic test in the book is very basic! Almost all the client

>I've tested from the basic test was mixed. It's frusterating because

>being a mixed type is the hardest type for most people. When I first

>took the test at the Nutrition Lifestyle Course given by Chek

>in San Diego I came out mixed as well. The most accurate test is the

>intermediate test which is computer based and is much more in depth.

>I took this test and came out a true protein type, fast oxidizer.

I did the test in the book and the Health Excel test offered by my

doctor's office. Both identified me as a protein type. My initial

mistake was not paying attention to the ratios of proteins, carbs and

fats. I was eating too much fat and too many carbs. I don't know

why, but I just couldn't keep a large amount of veggies off of my

plate. Now that I've got things more balanced, I've lost weight and

feel better in general. I no longer have that full, bloated feeling

after meals and have started to lose weight. I feel good after I

eat. In fact, I don't feel like I just ate a meal. I just feel

good.

I used to look down on myself because my husband (carb type)

preferred veggies and chicken. I thought that's the type of food I

should have been eating, too. Now we both eat what makes each of us

happy and I know why I prefer beef and buffalo. MT has been a HUGE

help to us.

<snip>

>So I recommend looking at your scores more closely or going through

>Health Excel and taking the intermediate test.

Even re-taking the test after doing MT for a while can help fine tune

things.

[Guest guest]

Matt,

Thanks for your reply. I re-examined my scores and here is what I

came up with: A=17, B=39, C=1. Originally when I took it I had:

A=16-22, B=32-35, C=3. I may be higher in B now, only because I was

doing Aktins for the past couple of months. I'm definitely not a

protein type, so it's no wonder I didn't lose any weight on Atkins. I

use to eat a raw vegan diet, but not anymore. I felt great on it and

lost a lot of weight eating that way, so I can relate to your client

below. However, I changed from veganism when I had a series of abnormal

paps. They cleared up after I changed to an NT diet. I realized then I

needed the animal sources in my diet. The difference I see between your

client below and myself, is she had a lot more C answers than I do and

you put her on the carb diet. Therefore, I'm thinking I must really be

a carb type and not a mixed type at all. I should take that

intermediate test to be sure though. I find the mixed type diet

suggestions to be vague in determining the best ratios to eat. I can

see if most people test mixed from the book there's a lot of

frustration. Today I had my first all fruit breakfast (with a little

heavy cream) and I felt more clear headed and I had more energy than

I've had in months eating eggs every morning.

Thanks again,

Robin

<<Robin,

          The metabolic test in the book is very

basic! Almost all the client I've tested from the basic test was mixed.

It's frustrating because being a mixed type is the hardest type for most

people. When I first took the test at the Nutrition Lifestyle Course

given by Chek in San Diego I came out mixed as well. The most

accurate test is the intermediate test which is computer based and is

much more in depth. I took this test and came out a true protein type,

fast oxidizer. This is the type of diet that I've alway felt comfortable

on. As far as my client was concerned her basic test scores were as

follows: Total A= 20, Total B=22, Total C= 20. This is technically a

mixed but if you look closely it's very close to a carbo type. I asked

her when she was the most happiest with her weight and she explained law

school. She then said her roomate was vegetarian and she ate mostly

everything that she ate. AHAA!! I place her on the carb type meal plan

and she ate only off of her carb type allowable foods chart. Since

January she has lost 14 pounds and 8 inches off her waist. NOT BAD!

So I recommend looking at your scores more closely or going through

Health Excel and taking the intermediate test. I don't believe in

vegetarianism or veganism myself. No offense. I think everyone is

different their for everyone will respond to the different ratio's of

Proteins, Carbs and Fats. I'm working on my intermediate certification

as we speak so I may be able to help you more very soon.

Matt Pack

IMpack Training Services

CHEK 1

NLC 1>>