Re: Re: Cheney inosine question

[Guest guest]

natellite wrote:

> It's important to have uric acid levels tested monthly whilst on Isprinosine.

Other blood and urine tests have to be preformed monthly as well, I don't

remember what they were.

I figured as much, considering what I've read. The possible link to

cardiovascular disease really concerns me due to my family genetics.

> It's not for everyone and certainly was not for me. I also didn't do well on

LDN.

I can't even try LDN, since I'm allergic to codeine. Naltrexone is a

morphine derivative. If you're allergic to morphine or any of its

derivatives (such as codeine), chances are quite good you'll be allergic

to naltrexone. The pharmacist I spoke to said that even if a physician

wrote the prescription for me, he would not fill it due to my codeine

allergy. It's just too risky. I liked his honesty and integrity.

I really need an immune system modulator, but every one I have come

across is something to which I'm allergic. And the one thing I could

take, I haven't been able to find anymore. Damn frustrating!

Jeri <teewinot13@...>

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[Guest guest]

Jeri,

Do you have a link that you can share to information about this?

I just started Isoprinisone and do have Cardiomyopathy. I did a Google

search but couldn't find anything about the cardiovascular disease

link and Isoprinosine.

I would appreciate any source that you can share.

--

Portland, OR

On Sep 30, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Teewinot wrote:

> I figured as much, considering what I've read. The possible link to

> cardiovascular disease really concerns me due to my family genetics.

[Guest guest]

pppbears wrote:

> Inosine may not be benign when taken as a supplement, but it is natural. It is

an intermediate in purine degredation, and inosine monophosphate is an

intermediate in purine synthesis (AMP and GMP).

I'm aware of that. By the same token cobra venom is natural, too, but I

wouldn't want to inject it into myself. Limonene is natural, is used in

food as flavoring, is used as an industrial degreaser, is used as an

ingredient in cleaning products. Man took it, synthesized it and

concentrated it beyond what's found in nature. It's also a natural

pesticide for citrus trees and is a registered pesticide with the EPA.

Just because something is natural does not mean it's safe. And there

are also always individual differences: What's fine for one is not for

another. Just something we all need to keep in mind.

Purines, leading to too much uric acid in blood can lead to kidney

stones and gout. I've seen it in the ER. Who knew human beings could

scream so loud. (Kidney stones can cause excrutiating pain.)

Jeri <teewinot13@...>

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[Guest guest]

of course one  needs to monitor  uric acid levels....and very good that this is

brought up ....

 

but in general though, inosine has little  toxicity compared to many and most

other other drugs....ie. valcyte for instance

> Inosine may not be benign when taken as a supplement, but it is natural. It is

an intermediate in purine degredation, and inosine monophosphate is an

intermediate in purine synthesis (AMP and GMP).

I'm aware of that. By the same token cobra venom is natural, too, but I

wouldn't want to inject it into myself. Limonene is natural, is used in

food as flavoring, is used as an industrial degreaser, is used as an

ingredient in cleaning products. Man took it, synthesized it and

concentrated it beyond what's found in nature. It's also a natural

pesticide for citrus trees and is a registered pesticide with the EPA.

Just because something is natural does not mean it's safe. And there

are also always individual differences: What's fine for one is not for

another. Just something we all need to keep in mind.

Purines, leading to too much uric acid in blood can lead to kidney

stones and gout. I've seen it in the ER. Who knew human beings could

scream so loud. (Kidney stones can cause excrutiating pain.)

Jeri <teewinot13@bellsout h.net>

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> Do you have a link that you can share to information about this?

I didn't bother to save the link. I found it doing a Google search for

side effects. I just backtracked my search. Here's the link:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/104075.php

You'll have to do further research from there.

> I just started Isoprinisone and do have Cardiomyopathy. I did a Google

> search but couldn't find anything about the cardiovascular disease

> link and Isoprinosine.

Just remember that Immunovir is basically the same as inosine. Didn't

your physician warn you about side effects? I'm surprised if he/she

didn't, because that's irresponsible, particularly with your condition.

I assume that you'll be closely monitored and have bloodwork and other

tests done every month. That would most likely catch any problem that

might arise.

Jeri <teewinot13@...>

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[Guest guest]

Nicola,

> I meant that inosine is natural to the human body, obviously. I would not say

that of cobra venom or limonene, or a million other natural poisons for that

matter. I did not say inosine was safe to take as a pill. I merely wanted people

on this board to know that they all have inosine in their bodies right now, and

if they did not they'd be dead.

I realize that, but many people seem to think that just because

something is " natural " that it is safe. That is obviously not true. I

see this discussion all the time, here, and other places.

There are plenty of things we take in supplement form that are naturally

found in our bodies.

> FWIW I take inosine and have a painless kidney stone. My urologist knows I

take inosine and has not asked me to stop and he is at a major teaching hospital

in New York City, so there are different opinions about this. He thinks my stone

is an oxalate. My PCP is a cardiologist and he is OK with my taking inosine.

Your physicians follow you, and that's as it should be. I worry about

those who do these things on their own who have no medical or

biochemistry background, and have no idea what they're doing to

themselves. (Goes back to " natural is safe " mentality.) I've seen too

many patients who experiment on themselves with no understanding of what

they're doing. People die that way.

I use myself as a guinea pig all the time, but have a medical background

and know what I'm doing and what to expect. I often will enlist a

physician to help monitor things when needed, like ordering lab work I

want done.

Jeri <teewinot13@...>

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[Guest guest]

Jeri,

Thanks for the link, it doesn't tell one anything further than a vague

statement that 'cardiovascular disease is a possible risk'. One would

think if people make statements like that that at least a short

explanation would be included on how the inosine would cause a

cardiovascular disease and what kind of cardiovascular disease.

I did a quick search, this time with inosine and cardiovascular

disease(instead of my previous search for Isoprinosine and

cardiovascular disease), but to be honest the only data I could find

was that 'Medicinally, inosine is used to treat various forms of heart

disease, from irregular heartbeat to recovery from heart attacks.'

Interesting isn't it?

Inosine : a naturally occurring cardiotonic agent.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6368998

Inosine: a protective agent in an organ culture model of myocardial

ischemia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7094228

These are just 2, honestly I could not find any that spoke of inosine

being the cause or contributing or having a side effect of

cardiovascular disease.

Of course my physician and I discussed the side effects of

Isoprinosine, and because we discussed the side effects in length and

I consider myself well informed, I was surprised to hear of the

cardiovascular disease link with inosine. Of course I did know about

the uric acid and gout. If you search the HIV websites you will come

across more information of Isoprinosine treatment and the side

effects. Besides gout and uric acid build up, breathing problems,

headaches, and a 'full feeling' when eating are also mentioned. I'm on

just 1/4 of a tablet where some physicians advice 6 tablets of 500mg a

day.

So no, I wouldn't consider my physician irresponsible, on the other

hand IMO it is the patient's responsibility to contribute, research

and ask questions as much as possible. We(my physician and I) consider

our relationship a partnership/teamwork and that can only be if I

contribute also in the process.

I already had blood work done every month so that will not change.

Respectfully,

--

Portland, OR

On Sep 30, 2009, at 7:47 PM, Teewinot wrote:

> I didn't bother to save the link. I found it doing a Google search

> for

> side effects. I just backtracked my search. Here's the link:

> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/104075.php

>

> You'll have to do further research from there.

>

>> I just started Isoprinisone and do have Cardiomyopathy. I did a

>> Google

>> search but couldn't find anything about the cardiovascular disease

>> link and Isoprinosine.

>

> Just remember that Immunovir is basically the same as inosine. Didn't

> your physician warn you about side effects? I'm surprised if he/she

> didn't, because that's irresponsible, particularly with your

> condition.

>

> I assume that you'll be closely monitored and have bloodwork and other

> tests done every month. That would most likely catch any problem that

> might arise.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the links.

This basically means that it's the elevated uric acid that is

contributing factor to cardiovascular disease, not the inosine.

One should use inosine properly and make sure uric acid levels are not

going to be elevated and stay within the normal range.

--

Portland, OR

On Oct 1, 2009, at 10:23 AM, dg wrote:

> Here is a links discussing urate levels and cardiovascular disease:

> http://heart.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/78/2/147

>

> Other articles that cite this one listed at the bottom have

> conflicting information.

> From one of the references in the link above:

> http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/41/6/1183

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nicola,

> Oh yes, there is a " natural is safe " notion. One of the worst examples

> is hydrogen peroxide.

Yes, you're right about H2O2. It's extremely difficult sometimes to get

people to understand that even natural things can be toxic/deadly.

That's why I always use the cobra venom example. It really gets

people's attention! LOL!

It's the same thing with " all natural food. " People seem to equate that

with organic. They can't seem to understand that the food item can

still be full of pesticides and other chemicals. I hate that kind of

deceptive advertising, and that's *exactly* what it is.

> I actually misread the grammar on your initial post. you had written

> " inosine is not a benign drug/natural compound " , and I read it as " not

> a benign drug, not a natural compound " . I have a pet peeve about

> pharmaceutical companies that designate natural compounds as drugs, and

> then get the FDA to ban the natural compound, thus protecting the

> company from competition. It was interesting to read on your group that

> this had happened with BH4. I did not know that. Sorry for misreading

> your meaning.

No problem! I've made that same mistake myself. I can see easily how

you misinterpreted what I wrote. That wasn't the clearest way to write

that. Sorry!

Yeah, I hate when they do that crap, too. It also infuriates me when

they take an OTC vitamin, call it a drug and sell it for outrageous sums

when you can buy it so much cheaper OTC, and people who don't know any

better get taken. Medicare probably gets taken on that one, too.

Niaspan is the perfect example. At least they didn't ban niacin ... yet.

> As someone else mentioned, uric acid can build up over time and for this

> reason i have always taken regular isoprinosine/inosine holidays. That

> is one thing that people can do to reduce risk. I take a 2 week break 4

> times a year.

Sounds smart to me.

Jeri <teewinot13@...>

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