Re: is cfs hypothyroidism. this argument yet again!

[Guest guest]

1967 -

I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and here is my take.

This insidious disease does something to wreck the entire endocrine system,

which the thyroid is part of. Now, I don't have any of the FM (muscle issues),

never have, but I know a lot of Hashi patients that do. Does this mean that I

don't have a true form of Hashi's or CFS? No, I don't think so.

Also, I belonged to the Hashimoto's chatlist for quite some time. I left becuase

I just don't fit in with everyone there. My symptoms of Hashi are mild in

comparison to most of the patients, BUT here's the catch, most of them live

pretty productive lives compared to myself, who besides going to work everyday

could be considered a shut-in. None of the other women/men reported my typical

CFS symptoms. And there was often an argument that my CFS was caused by my

thyroid. I've had this for 16 yrs now, and I didn't start having severe thyroid

issues until 3 years ago. I do have to say that when I look back on pics from

one year after becoming ill, my thyroid was large. I think my immune system must

have started to attack VERY slowly from day one. If you believe in Meileir's

theory of our proteins attacking healthy tissue even though it's supposed to be

attacking virus', then this fits right in there.

Just my 2 cents, but I do not believe that CFS is undiagnosed hypothyroidism,

but that hypothyroidism is an effect of the autoimmune disorder CFS.-Wendi

is cfs hypothyroidism. this argument yet again!

I know its been dealt with before, but I am still wondering if cfs may

be undiagnosed hypothyroidism. It would fit the facts....a virus in

epidemic form which can knacker up people's metabolism and leave them

with chronic fatigue and aching muscles. also sporadic cases and the

gradual onset, It does fit the facts.

There are some papers out which say that trials of thyroxine with T3

have improved people with cfs over placebo too. But doctors deny it

dont they. They are still saying our thyroid tests are in the normal

range, even though some people on thyroid forums say that the TSH is a

load of codswallop.

Then there are the cfs/fibro-thyroid doctors who say that that is what

fibro and cfs is and they have websites and patients and are

prescribing thyroxine and T3 for their patients and some have even got

their own research papers...eg dr lowe (chiropractor) , dr skinner (in

england, he has a website too and a book)

So, then we have to battle with our GPs who say there is nothing wrong

with our thyroids, but they only measure the amount in out blood and

we dont know if we have receptor blockage.

The we go home wondering whether the private cfs/fibro-thyroid doc is

just making money...making a living out of his revelations or whether

he really does have some kind of proof...we wonder whether his

patients really are getting better/ we get confused over the easy

cash versus maybe really onto something debate.

so, can anyone shed light? Coz I am sceptical of cfs being a heart

thing or an oxygen problem or some kind of brain disorder or whatever.

If it really is the thyroid hormones with problems with cell take up,

then why dont we prove it once and for all and all get better.

[Guest guest]

Believe it or not...I was sure was surprised. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's

about 7 years ago. Took the appropriate meds, got tested again this year and it

was gone. Just simply gone. I guess my body just stopped attacking my thyroid,

tho I'm sure I'm under some sort of attack.

is cfs hypothyroidism. this argument yet again!

I know its been dealt with before, but I am still wondering if cfs may

be undiagnosed hypothyroidism. It would fit the facts....a virus in

epidemic form which can knacker up people's metabolism and leave them

with chronic fatigue and aching muscles. also sporadic cases and the

gradual onset, It does fit the facts.

There are some papers out which say that trials of thyroxine with T3

have improved people with cfs over placebo too. But doctors deny it

dont they. They are still saying our thyroid tests are in the normal

range, even though some people on thyroid forums say that the TSH is a

load of codswallop.

Then there are the cfs/fibro-thyroid doctors who say that that is what

fibro and cfs is and they have websites and patients and are

prescribing thyroxine and T3 for their patients and some have even got

their own research papers...eg dr lowe (chiropractor) , dr skinner (in

england, he has a website too and a book)

So, then we have to battle with our GPs who say there is nothing wrong

with our thyroids, but they only measure the amount in out blood and

we dont know if we have receptor blockage.

The we go home wondering whether the private cfs/fibro-thyroid doc is

just making money...making a living out of his revelations or whether

he really does have some kind of proof...we wonder whether his

patients really are getting better/ we get confused over the easy

cash versus maybe really onto something debate.

so, can anyone shed light? Coz I am sceptical of cfs being a heart

thing or an oxygen problem or some kind of brain disorder or whatever.

If it really is the thyroid hormones with problems with cell take up,

then why dont we prove it once and for all and all get better.

[Guest guest]

It isn't hypothyroidism only. Hypothyroidism has been treated for

many of us and we are still not well. Something happened to me over

the summer which made me hyperthyroid and I still am not well.

[Guest guest]

- Have you been tested for Hashimoto's? With Hashi's, as your thyroid is

being destroyed, it will cyclically dump hormones and then try to readjust which

causes the " swing " from Hyper to Hypo. Just thinking out loud.

-Wendi

Re: is cfs hypothyroidism. this argument yet again!

It isn't hypothyroidism only. Hypothyroidism has been treated for

many of us and we are still not well. Something happened to me over

the summer which made me hyperthyroid and I still am not well.

[Guest guest]

The thing is you have hashis and I do not. well I have never been told

I have hashis. And hashis IS an auto immune disorder. So, I think we

may have different things. I do not seem to have anything attacking my

tissues? What do I need to look for for this? I dont have lupus or

hashis. I have a fatigue and sometimes get brain symptoms like cant

concentrate, off balance, brain fog. Thats it with me, i dont get pain

either, well not usually. Occasionally I do but it doesnt last long. I

dont know if I believe de meirleirs theory about proteins attacking

healthy tissue or not. where is the evidence that this happens? His

theory is the RNaseL theory which is cleaved and is using up ATP at 4

times the rate it should in healthy people. He says that then the

intra cellular organisms can attack us or something. the british

researchers dont believe in the RNaseL theory coz they said that they

did some tests and ANYONES RNasel will be positive if you leave it

long enough. Meirleir said they used the wrong DNA probe. SO you just

dont know who to believe.

I certainly think there may be something in the thyroid theory coz

everyone says that the TSH tests are useless, especially if you have a

n endocrine system which is abnormal.

In , " Edy Rayfield " <edyrayfield@...>

wrote:

>

> Believe it or not...I was sure was surprised. I was diagnosed with

Hashimoto's about 7 years ago. Took the appropriate meds, got tested

again this year and it was gone. Just simply gone. I guess my body

just stopped attacking my thyroid, tho I'm sure I'm under some sort of

attack.

> is cfs hypothyroidism. this argument

yet again!

>

> I know its been dealt with before, but I am still wondering if cfs may

> be undiagnosed hypothyroidism. It would fit the facts....a virus in

> epidemic form which can knacker up people's metabolism and leave them

> with chronic fatigue and aching muscles. also sporadic cases and the

> gradual onset, It does fit the facts.

>

> There are some papers out which say that trials of thyroxine with T3

> have improved people with cfs over placebo too. But doctors deny it

> dont they. They are still saying our thyroid tests are in the normal

> range, even though some people on thyroid forums say that the TSH is a

> load of codswallop.

>

> Then there are the cfs/fibro-thyroid doctors who say that that is what

> fibro and cfs is and they have websites and patients and are

> prescribing thyroxine and T3 for their patients and some have even got

> their own research papers...eg dr lowe (chiropractor) , dr skinner (in

> england, he has a website too and a book)

>

> So, then we have to battle with our GPs who say there is nothing wrong

> with our thyroids, but they only measure the amount in out blood and

> we dont know if we have receptor blockage.

>

> The we go home wondering whether the private cfs/fibro-thyroid doc is

> just making money...making a living out of his revelations or whether

> he really does have some kind of proof...we wonder whether his

> patients really are getting better/ we get confused over the easy

> cash versus maybe really onto something debate.

>

> so, can anyone shed light? Coz I am sceptical of cfs being a heart

> thing or an oxygen problem or some kind of brain disorder or whatever.

>

> If it really is the thyroid hormones with problems with cell take up,

> then why dont we prove it once and for all and all get better.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not to defend De Meirleir, but the Rnase L is not a theory , it's a

scientific truth; what is not certain is its application to CFS. The reason for

this uncertainty is that also some non CFS patients tested positive (only a 13%

though against 86% of CFS patients).

The point is that Rnase L indicates that there is a virus against which our body

is fighting, it is normal if it activates, the non normal aspect of it is that

in most CFS patients does not switch off, and by remaining activated, in the

long run, it cuts the LMW of the Rnase L.

If I remembered well, yours resulted activated but the coefficient indicating

the LMW was correct at 80Kdaltons. Same for me, and that's a good news. Maybe

that's the reason for you have a mild form of CFS instead of a bed-ridding form

of it.

Who are the british researchers that you mentioned? Could you tell some names? I

am not aware of any research going on and I would very much be interested in

reading them and see what their findings are.

Massimo

is cfs hypothyroidism. this argument

yet again!

>

> I know its been dealt with before, but I am still wondering if cfs may

> be undiagnosed hypothyroidism. It would fit the facts....a virus in

> epidemic form which can knacker up people's metabolism and leave them

> with chronic fatigue and aching muscles. also sporadic cases and the

> gradual onset, It does fit the facts.

>

> There are some papers out which say that trials of thyroxine with T3

> have improved people with cfs over placebo too. But doctors deny it

> dont they. They are still saying our thyroid tests are in the normal

> range, even though some people on thyroid forums say that the TSH is a

> load of codswallop.

>

> Then there are the cfs/fibro-thyroid doctors who say that that is what

> fibro and cfs is and they have websites and patients and are

> prescribing thyroxine and T3 for their patients and some have even got

> their own research papers...eg dr lowe (chiropractor) , dr skinner (in

> england, he has a website too and a book)

>

> So, then we have to battle with our GPs who say there is nothing wrong

> with our thyroids, but they only measure the amount in out blood and

> we dont know if we have receptor blockage.

>

> The we go home wondering whether the private cfs/fibro-thyroid doc is

> just making money...making a living out of his revelations or whether

> he really does have some kind of proof...we wonder whether his

> patients really are getting better/ we get confused over the easy

> cash versus maybe really onto something debate.

>

> so, can anyone shed light? Coz I am sceptical of cfs being a heart

> thing or an oxygen problem or some kind of brain disorder or whatever.

>

> If it really is the thyroid hormones with problems with cell take up,

> then why dont we prove it once and for all and all get better.

>

>

[Guest guest]

, a little light; I have a doc who is certified NOT a moneygrubber,

(treats people for free sometimes), and he says thyroid important, standard

tests not true. When he first mentioned it, I declined to take any, from fear,

didn't know him or his brand of medicine long, and we never revisited it, but we

should.

Adrienne

is cfs hypothyroidism. this argument yet again!

I know its been dealt with before, but I am still wondering if cfs may

be undiagnosed hypothyroidism. It would fit the facts....a virus in

epidemic form which can knacker up people's metabolism and leave them

with chronic fatigue and aching muscles. also sporadic cases and the

gradual onset, It does fit the facts.

There are some papers out which say that trials of thyroxine with T3

have improved people with cfs over placebo too. But doctors deny it

dont they. They are still saying our thyroid tests are in the normal

range, even though some people on thyroid forums say that the TSH is a

load of codswallop.

Then there are the cfs/fibro-thyroid doctors who say that that is what

fibro and cfs is and they have websites and patients and are

prescribing thyroxine and T3 for their patients and some have even got

their own research papers...eg dr lowe (chiropractor), dr skinner (in

england, he has a website too and a book)

So, then we have to battle with our GPs who say there is nothing wrong

with our thyroids, but they only measure the amount in out blood and

we dont know if we have receptor blockage.

The we go home wondering whether the private cfs/fibro-thyroid doc is

just making money...making a living out of his revelations or whether

he really does have some kind of proof...we wonder whether his

patients really are getting better/ we get confused over the easy

cash versus maybe really onto something debate.

so, can anyone shed light? Coz I am sceptical of cfs being a heart

thing or an oxygen problem or some kind of brain disorder or whatever.

If it really is the thyroid hormones with problems with cell take up,

then why dont we prove it once and for all and all get better.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

To each his own.

Yes, Hashi's IS an auto-immune disorder. What do you think CFS is??? CFS wreaks

havoc on the endocrine system, which the thyroid is a part of. The thyroid is

merely an innocent bystander, not the aggravator.

Also, there are many undiagnosed Hashi's people out there. How many people do

you know have had this specific blood test done? It took over 15 years before a

physician tested me for this. Most doctors do a standard TSH and that's it. I

even have a goiter and my GP STILL did not run a full thyroid panel, just TSH.

-W

is cfs hypothyroidism. this argument

yet again!

>

> I know its been dealt with before, but I am still wondering if cfs may

> be undiagnosed hypothyroidism. It would fit the facts....a virus in

> epidemic form which can knacker up people's metabolism and leave them

> with chronic fatigue and aching muscles. also sporadic cases and the

> gradual onset, It does fit the facts.

>

> There are some papers out which say that trials of thyroxine with T3

> have improved people with cfs over placebo too. But doctors deny it

> dont they. They are still saying our thyroid tests are in the normal

> range, even though some people on thyroid forums say that the TSH is a

> load of codswallop.

>

> Then there are the cfs/fibro-thyroid doctors who say that that is what

> fibro and cfs is and they have websites and patients and are

> prescribing thyroxine and T3 for their patients and some have even got

> their own research papers...eg dr lowe (chiropractor) , dr skinner (in

> england, he has a website too and a book)

>

> So, then we have to battle with our GPs who say there is nothing wrong

> with our thyroids, but they only measure the amount in out blood and

> we dont know if we have receptor blockage.

>

> The we go home wondering whether the private cfs/fibro-thyroid doc is

> just making money...making a living out of his revelations or whether

> he really does have some kind of proof...we wonder whether his

> patients really are getting better/ we get confused over the easy

> cash versus maybe really onto something debate.

>

> so, can anyone shed light? Coz I am sceptical of cfs being a heart

> thing or an oxygen problem or some kind of brain disorder or whatever.

>

> If it really is the thyroid hormones with problems with cell take up,

> then why dont we prove it once and for all and all get better.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Massimo,

I don't remember who the British researchers were who critisized

Meirleir's paper. i think it may have been Gow, but not sure. It was a

Dr Findley (a neurologist who sees cfs patients) who told me coz I

asked him why there is no RNasel test available in the UK. That was 3

or 4 years ago now when the RNaseL first came out and ampligen was

suggested as a treatment if you had a big rnaseL ratio. I saw Meirleir

myself and I had an RNaseL test and the ankyrin or whatever its called

(wrong spelling) test. The latter was negative and thats why I think

meirleir thought I didnt have proper cfs and suggested it may be c pneu.

I think there was an argument going on in the form of letters between

meirleir and these british guys coz I remember reading the letters

which meirleir stated in one that they used the wrong dna probe.

Findley said the idea was " old hat " when I wrote to him. It will be

interesting to see whether RNaseL is switched on and that there is

this LMW enzyme which uses up ATP at 4 times the rate of the normal

one or not. Or does everyone's do this anyway as the British

researchers said...well they said it would be positive for anyone if

you left it long enough whatever that means.

Soz i cant be of more help but if you google it you may find the letters.

martin

In , " *Massimo " <maxupolo@...> wrote:

>

> Not to defend De Meirleir, but the Rnase L is not a theory ,

it's a scientific truth; what is not certain is its application to

CFS. The reason for this uncertainty is that also some non CFS

patients tested positive (only a 13% though against 86% of CFS patients).

>

> The point is that Rnase L indicates that there is a virus against

which our body is fighting, it is normal if it activates, the non

normal aspect of it is that in most CFS patients does not switch off,

and by remaining activated, in the long run, it cuts the LMW of the

Rnase L.

>

> If I remembered well, yours resulted activated but the coefficient

indicating the LMW was correct at 80Kdaltons. Same for me, and that's

a good news. Maybe that's the reason for you have a mild form of CFS

instead of a bed-ridding form of it.

>

> Who are the british researchers that you mentioned? Could you tell

some names? I am not aware of any research going on and I would very

much be interested in reading them and see what their findings are.

>

> Massimo

>

> is cfs hypothyroidism. this argument

> yet again!

> >

> > I know its been dealt with before, but I am still wondering if

cfs may

> > be undiagnosed hypothyroidism. It would fit the facts....a virus in

> > epidemic form which can knacker up people's metabolism and leave

them

> > with chronic fatigue and aching muscles. also sporadic cases and the

> > gradual onset, It does fit the facts.

> >

> > There are some papers out which say that trials of thyroxine with T3

> > have improved people with cfs over placebo too. But doctors deny it

> > dont they. They are still saying our thyroid tests are in the normal

> > range, even though some people on thyroid forums say that the

TSH is a

> > load of codswallop.

> >

> > Then there are the cfs/fibro-thyroid doctors who say that that

is what

> > fibro and cfs is and they have websites and patients and are

> > prescribing thyroxine and T3 for their patients and some have

even got

> > their own research papers...eg dr lowe (chiropractor) , dr

skinner (in

> > england, he has a website too and a book)

> >

> > So, then we have to battle with our GPs who say there is nothing

wrong

> > with our thyroids, but they only measure the amount in out blood and

> > we dont know if we have receptor blockage.

> >

> > The we go home wondering whether the private cfs/fibro-thyroid

doc is

> > just making money...making a living out of his revelations or

whether

> > he really does have some kind of proof...we wonder whether his

> > patients really are getting better/ we get confused over the easy

> > cash versus maybe really onto something debate.

> >

> > so, can anyone shed light? Coz I am sceptical of cfs being a heart

> > thing or an oxygen problem or some kind of brain disorder or

whatever.

> >

> > If it really is the thyroid hormones with problems with cell

take up,

> > then why dont we prove it once and for all and all get better.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

you are jumping the gun a little at what I meant. I meant that Hashi's

MAY BE your CFS...it may be hashis and your goitre which is causing

your health problem....that is the point of this thread..whether we

are naming cfs...cfs, when in fact it could just be hashis or

hypothyroidism or whatever...without it being something completely

new. That is what I am talking about and I am not trying to say it is

or it isnt, I am just putting the facts out there of what different

doctors have said and trying to fit it in with the facts...your facts

seem to shed light that you may just have hashis and a goitre which is

causing your problem...but I am not saying it definitely is.

In , Wendi Carrillo

<tres_gatos87801@...> wrote:

>

> To each his own.

>

> Yes, Hashi's IS an auto-immune disorder. What do you think CFS is???

CFS wreaks havoc on the endocrine system, which the thyroid is a part

of. The thyroid is merely an innocent bystander, not the aggravator.

>

> Also, there are many undiagnosed Hashi's people out there. How many

people do you know have had this specific blood test done? It took

over 15 years before a physician tested me for this. Most doctors do a

standard TSH and that's it. I even have a goiter and my GP STILL did

not run a full thyroid panel, just TSH.

>

> -W

>

>

> is cfs hypothyroidism. this argument

> yet again!

> >

> > I know its been dealt with before, but I am still wondering if cfs may

> > be undiagnosed hypothyroidism. It would fit the facts....a virus in

> > epidemic form which can knacker up people's metabolism and leave them

> > with chronic fatigue and aching muscles. also sporadic cases and the

> > gradual onset, It does fit the facts.

> >

> > There are some papers out which say that trials of thyroxine with T3

> > have improved people with cfs over placebo too. But doctors deny it

> > dont they. They are still saying our thyroid tests are in the normal

> > range, even though some people on thyroid forums say that the TSH is a

> > load of codswallop.

> >

> > Then there are the cfs/fibro-thyroid doctors who say that that is what

> > fibro and cfs is and they have websites and patients and are

> > prescribing thyroxine and T3 for their patients and some have even got

> > their own research papers...eg dr lowe (chiropractor) , dr skinner (in

> > england, he has a website too and a book)

> >

> > So, then we have to battle with our GPs who say there is nothing wrong

> > with our thyroids, but they only measure the amount in out blood and

> > we dont know if we have receptor blockage.

> >

> > The we go home wondering whether the private cfs/fibro-thyroid doc is

> > just making money...making a living out of his revelations or whether

> > he really does have some kind of proof...we wonder whether his

> > patients really are getting better/ we get confused over the easy

> > cash versus maybe really onto something debate.

> >

> > so, can anyone shed light? Coz I am sceptical of cfs being a heart

> > thing or an oxygen problem or some kind of brain disorder or whatever.

> >

> > If it really is the thyroid hormones with problems with cell take up,

> > then why dont we prove it once and for all and all get better.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

wendy

What dose do you take then for your hashis? And how did your cfs start

then? have you taken T3 as well?

martin

In , Wendi Carrillo

<tres_gatos87801@...> wrote:

>

> - You have no idea how much I wish that were true. If Hashi's

was my only problem, I'd be in seventh heaven. Don't get me excited!

>

> Have a good one!

>

> -Wendi

> is cfs hypothyroidism. this argument

> > yet again!

> > >

> > > I know its been dealt with before, but I am still wondering if

cfs may

> > > be undiagnosed hypothyroidism. It would fit the facts....a virus in

> > > epidemic form which can knacker up people's metabolism and leave

them

> > > with chronic fatigue and aching muscles. also sporadic cases and the

> > > gradual onset, It does fit the facts.

> > >

> > > There are some papers out which say that trials of thyroxine with T3

> > > have improved people with cfs over placebo too. But doctors deny it

> > > dont they. They are still saying our thyroid tests are in the normal

> > > range, even though some people on thyroid forums say that the

TSH is a

> > > load of codswallop.

> > >

> > > Then there are the cfs/fibro-thyroid doctors who say that that

is what

> > > fibro and cfs is and they have websites and patients and are

> > > prescribing thyroxine and T3 for their patients and some have

even got

> > > their own research papers...eg dr lowe (chiropractor) , dr

skinner (in

> > > england, he has a website too and a book)

> > >

> > > So, then we have to battle with our GPs who say there is nothing

wrong

> > > with our thyroids, but they only measure the amount in out blood and

> > > we dont know if we have receptor blockage.

> > >

> > > The we go home wondering whether the private cfs/fibro-thyroid

doc is

> > > just making money...making a living out of his revelations or

whether

> > > he really does have some kind of proof...we wonder whether his

> > > patients really are getting better/ we get confused over the easy

> > > cash versus maybe really onto something debate.

> > >

> > > so, can anyone shed light? Coz I am sceptical of cfs being a heart

> > > thing or an oxygen problem or some kind of brain disorder or

whatever.

> > >

> > > If it really is the thyroid hormones with problems with cell

take up,

> > > then why dont we prove it once and for all and all get better.

> > >

> > >