Re:was None, now, recovery and scheduled resting...

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I don't know any of sen's patients. And I didn't say anything about

" chosing " to

recover. Perhaps a re-read of Ken (the moderator's) post would help your

understanding

of this issue. (And by the way, I believe that Ken considers himself

recovered.)

Most of the folks I know who have recovered or are near recovery (75%-90%) did

not rely

soley on their doctor for all the answers. Just as one example, they made sure

to practice

" active resting " or " scheduled resting " , something never discussed on this

board.

In fact, in my journey, I had several sessions with a therapist who herself was

extremely ill

with CFIDS, then as she gradually got better, she was able to slowly but surely

restart her

career. Of the 120+ patients she counseled over the last 4-5 years, only ONE

has not

gotten better. That is the woman who continues to burn the candle at all ends,

flying

around the country from this specialist to that, fighting, fighting, and

fighting to find THE

cure.

As for the therapist, she''s stopped counseling CFS patients, has been writing

songs and

singing with her group, and has her first CD coming out in December.

d.

> >

> > With all due respect , your post proves Ken's point perfectly.

> If none of sen's patients have recovered completely then by God,

> no one else dare recover.

> > What is conveniently from this excerpt is the question, how many

> have recovered 70%, 80%, etc.?

> >

> > I personally know 2 people who have recovered completely, and

> probably about 4-5 who are at 80% recovery. It does and can happen.

> > d.

>

>

> Somehow I doubt that people would choose to remain ill because they

> dare not recover.

> Most people I know chose to recover but didn't, it was not in their

> control.

> Have you heard of any patients who chose to recover and did?

> -

>

[Guest guest]

" kdrbrill " <kdrbrill@...> wrote:

>

> Sorry, I don't know any of sen's patients. And I didn't say

anything about " chosing " to recover. Perhaps a re-read of Ken (the

moderator's) post would help your understanding of this issue. (And

by the way, I believe that Ken considers himself recovered.)

>

> d.

Perhaps if you looked up the definition of " dare " , your word, it

would help your understanding that acting boldly in pursuit of a goal

is making a choice based upon courage.

I am a former patient, and I have described my recovery on

this list in no uncertain terms.

/message/92971

It is completely clear to me that nobody in this group has any

interest in pursuing the primary clue that presented itself at the

moment of " CFS " s creation, and would rather endlessly debate me to a

standstill.

Whether this concept behind this anomaly is true, false, or applies

to everyone is immaterial to the pheneomenon that the mere

presentation of this clue causes a peculiar immediate " disinterest

response " .

I had hoped for assistance in pursuing further research into the

mycotoxin connection to CFS, but CFS sufferers have proven to be more

intransigent and argumentative than the worst denialist doctors.

Fortunately, Dr Shoemaker could clearly see from all the way across

the country, what people standing right next to me could not, and the

assistance I had hoped for from CFS groups is not required.

The mysterious eagerness and sheer determination of CFS sufferers to

avoid examination of this abnormality at all costs will probably

always be a mystery to me.

And I recently returned from climbing Mt Whitney for the eighth time

since leaving the ampligen protocols.

-

[Guest guest]

-I for one am very interested in the primary clue and how you

recovered. All I know about your recovery is 'mold avoidance'. You

have also answered questions by stating 'it's all in the book' by

which I think you mean 'Moldwarriors'. Additionally, you recently

kindly answered one of my questions with 3 words like 'mycotoxin

(something) exposure. Would it be asking too much for you to

refer back to certain post numbers where you have described how you

have avoided/eliminated all exposure to mycotoxins?

Also, I believe that on this list, I can't speak for other

experiences that you have had, there are only 1-3 members who are

argumentative and think that your recovery from mold exposure

deserves less attention. However, due to the large number of daily

messages, I am unable to read every one, and I, and maybe others,

would appreciate either a concise explanation or reference to

specific messages. You are right though, most of your attempts to

put forth your theory and treatment are met with skepticism and/or

argumentation. I think it has been a long time since I have seen

you write specifically about your recovery as opposed to having to

deal w/ people trying to debunk your hypothesis. Thanks,

Mike C

> It is completely clear to me that nobody in this group has any

> interest in pursuing the primary clue that presented itself at the

> moment of " CFS " s creation, and would rather endlessly debate me to

a

> standstill.

>

> Whether this concept behind this anomaly is true, false, or

applies

> to everyone is immaterial to the pheneomenon that the mere

> presentation of this clue causes a peculiar immediate " disinterest

> response " .

>

> I had hoped for assistance in pursuing further research into the

> mycotoxin connection to CFS, but CFS sufferers have proven to be

more

> intransigent and argumentative than the worst denialist doctors.

>

> Fortunately, Dr Shoemaker could clearly see from all the way

across

> the country, what people standing right next to me could not, and

the

> assistance I had hoped for from CFS groups is not required.

>

> The mysterious eagerness and sheer determination of CFS sufferers

to

> avoid examination of this abnormality at all costs will probably

> always be a mystery to me.

>

> And I recently returned from climbing Mt Whitney for the eighth

time

> since leaving the ampligen protocols.

> -

>

[Guest guest]

, if you were a patient of Dr. sen, and consider yourself recovered,

perhaps you

should call him and suggest he change his answer to " one " ? I know he was

talking about

patients who had recovered 100%, but that's a loaded question. There are many

illnesses,

especially chronic ones, where people recover, but can't ever be expected to be

completely

back to how they were before they became ill.

You said earlier: " Most people I know chose to recover but didn't, it was not in

their

control. Have you heard of any patients who chose to recover and did? "

Now I can say yes -- Mold Warrior. And yes, you made choices that helped

you slowly

but surely recover to the point where you're CLIMBING MOUNTAINS. Perhaps you're

not

100%, but your recovery so far is testament to the fact that there is hope, and

some people

are getting better -- a stark contrast to sen's gloom and doom answer --

" none " .

I understand that not everyone can make the choices they need to, or are so sick

that they

feel there is nothing they can do. But as I mentioned earlier, so many of us

push ourselves

(including me), when our bodies are screaming at us to STOP, and the choice in

that case

is to stop. Even if it's just for FIVE MINUTES. But most of us who still have

a choice,

choose to keep pushing and pushing, and the cycle goes on and on. Personally,

I'm trying

every day to change that behavior...but sometimes " life " does get in the way...

All the doctors and supplements and/or drugs in the world won't do a bit of good

if we

don't rest -- often. Short, frequent breaks are a good -- and free -- treatment

that has

helped many on their road to recovery.

d.

> >

> > Sorry, I don't know any of sen's patients. And I didn't say

> anything about " chosing " to recover. Perhaps a re-read of Ken (the

> moderator's) post would help your understanding of this issue. (And

> by the way, I believe that Ken considers himself recovered.)

> >

> > d.

>

>

> Perhaps if you looked up the definition of " dare " , your word, it

> would help your understanding that acting boldly in pursuit of a goal

> is making a choice based upon courage.

>

> I am a former patient, and I have described my recovery on

> this list in no uncertain terms.

> /message/92971

>

> It is completely clear to me that nobody in this group has any

> interest in pursuing the primary clue that presented itself at the

> moment of " CFS " s creation, and would rather endlessly debate me to a

> standstill.

>

> Whether this concept behind this anomaly is true, false, or applies

> to everyone is immaterial to the pheneomenon that the mere

> presentation of this clue causes a peculiar immediate " disinterest

> response " .

>

> I had hoped for assistance in pursuing further research into the

> mycotoxin connection to CFS, but CFS sufferers have proven to be more

> intransigent and argumentative than the worst denialist doctors.

>

> Fortunately, Dr Shoemaker could clearly see from all the way across

> the country, what people standing right next to me could not, and the

> assistance I had hoped for from CFS groups is not required.

>

> The mysterious eagerness and sheer determination of CFS sufferers to

> avoid examination of this abnormality at all costs will probably

> always be a mystery to me.

>

> And I recently returned from climbing Mt Whitney for the eighth time

> since leaving the ampligen protocols.

> -

>

[Guest guest]

<yakcamp22@...> wrote:

>

> -I for one am very interested in the primary clue and how you

> recovered. All I know about your recovery is 'mold avoidance'.

You

> have also answered questions by stating 'it's all in the book' by

> which I think you mean 'Moldwarriors'. Additionally, you recently

> kindly answered one of my questions with 3 words like 'mycotoxin

> (something) exposure. Would it be asking too much for you to

> refer back to certain post numbers where you have described how you

> have avoided/eliminated all exposure to mycotoxins?

>

> Also, I believe that on this list, I can't speak for other

> experiences that you have had, there are only 1-3 members who are

> argumentative and think that your recovery from mold exposure

> deserves less attention. However, due to the large number of daily

> messages, I am unable to read every one, and I, and maybe others,

> would appreciate either a concise explanation or reference to

> specific messages. You are right though, most of your attempts to

> put forth your theory and treatment are met with skepticism and/or

> argumentation. I think it has been a long time since I have seen

> you write specifically about your recovery as opposed to having to

> deal w/ people trying to debunk your hypothesis. Thanks,

>

> Mike C

It's so simple that it sounds absurd.

Go to a place like Truckee HS: Ground Zero for CFS.

Memorize the sensations.

Avoid those sensations as if they were plutonium.

There are innumerable details, but that is the crux of the matter.

-

/message/59560

[Guest guest]

" kdrbrill " <kdrbrill@...> wrote:

>

> , if you were a patient of Dr. sen, and consider yourself

recovered, perhaps you should call him and suggest he change his

answer to " one " ?

>

No amount of desire or " pushing through " enabled me to improve my

anaerobic threshold. Resting made no difference.

The only thing that helped me was following the clues provided

by " locations effect " .

Dr knows all about me.

He watched me do the whole thing, since I was right across the

street and gave him updates and dropped off information about my

progress.

You can ask him. He won't deny it, but he will probably tell you

that I am misguided and that you shouldn't listen to me.

-

[Guest guest]

,

Do you or any other " moldies " know of a place in Chicagoland that has

a similar effect?

Do you see the same effects in public libraries or other places full

of old books, as others here have suggested?

- Bob Niederman

On 11/1/06, erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@...> wrote:

>

> It's so simple that it sounds absurd.

> Go to a place like Truckee HS: Ground Zero for CFS.

> Memorize the sensations.

> Avoid those sensations as if they were plutonium.

> There are innumerable details, but that is the crux of the matter.

> -

> /message/59560

[Guest guest]

" bob niederman " <bobn1955@...> wrote:

>

> ,

> Do you or any other " moldies " know of a place in Chicagoland that

has a similar effect?

> Do you see the same effects in public libraries or other places full

of old books, as others here have suggested?

>

> - Bob Niederman

Once the immune sensitization to biotoxins has been " unveiled " by a

cytokine inducer, this crap can be anywhere and on anything.

That's what threw me off for many years. I kept reverting the the

flawed fundamental notion that exposure would primarily be connected

to a moldy location, and ignored the clothing, possessions, and

wafting plumes that seemed to rule out mold toxins.

The fact that it was " coming from everywhere " almost appeared to

disprove the theory that it could possibly be from mold.

I don't know of a specific spot in Chicago, but I imagine it wouldn't

be hard to find a lot of them.

/message/92023

-

[Guest guest]

,

By anaerobic threshold do you mean getting less oxygen into your system? I

use a hyperbaric chamber for the specific reason of getting lots more oxygen

into my system to fight lyme. Is anaerobic better for getting rid of

mycotoxins?

erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@...> wrote:

" kdrbrill " <kdrbrill@...> wrote:

>

> , if you were a patient of Dr. sen, and consider yourself

recovered, perhaps you should call him and suggest he change his

answer to " one " ?

>

No amount of desire or " pushing through " enabled me to improve my

anaerobic threshold. Resting made no difference.

The only thing that helped me was following the clues provided

by " locations effect " .

Dr knows all about me.

He watched me do the whole thing, since I was right across the

street and gave him updates and dropped off information about my

progress.

You can ask him. He won't deny it, but he will probably tell you

that I am misguided and that you shouldn't listen to me.

-