Guest guest Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I just watched the Cheney DVD The Heart of the Matter. Does that mean then that if we all have a heart transplant, we will be cured of cfs? What heart tests do you need to get to see if you have this cardiac problem? Has this problem been proven for all CFS people then? He mentions near the end in question time about hypothyroid and says that cfs people are hypo. However, most peoples thyroid results are always in the normal range, so I dont understand why he says this. That is one of the things you have to rule out before a diagnosis of CFS can be made is thyroid function tests. I myself went down that route and saw a doc who thinks CFS is just in fact sub clinical hypothyroidism and he prescribes T4 and/or T3 to his patients. My TSH went right down from 2.something down to 0.01 taking t3. so I stopped and it is normal again now, but I still have CFS. I know De meirleir has a paper out saying that although the thyroid tests are normal, the thyroid hormone isnt getting into the cells due to receptor blockage. Maybe this is what Cheney means. anyone know? So, is Cheney basically saying this heart problem comes from a disruption of energy production, but he doesnt know what is causing the energy malfunction? He spent quite a long time talking about the Super oxide and a trio of chemicals that are out of shape (cant remember now exactly). Well, I thought it was interesting but is he right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 -could you please tell me which kind of DVD you purchased? There is a DVD-R option, a DVD-RW, and others that I can't remember like DVD-R only. I just have a regular DVD player that plays DVDs that we rent occasionally from Blockbuster. Thanks in advance to anyone. I have promised to purchase these DVDs and send them to someone who can make more sense out of them than i can. Mike C > > I just watched the Cheney DVD The Heart of the Matter. > Does that mean then that if we all have a heart transplant, we will be > cured of cfs? <<<snip>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 I got the dvd off the dallas fortworth cfs website I think. I dont know if they are rewritable but they work on my DVD player. martin In , " yakcamp22 " <yakcamp22@...> wrote: > > -could you please tell me which kind of DVD you purchased? > There is a DVD-R option, a DVD-RW, and others that I can't remember > like DVD-R only. I just have a regular DVD player that plays DVDs > that we rent occasionally from Blockbuster. Thanks in advance > to anyone. I have promised to purchase these DVDs and send them to > someone who can make more sense out of them than i can. > > Mike C > > > > > > > > I just watched the Cheney DVD The Heart of the Matter. > > Does that mean then that if we all have a heart transplant, we will > be > > cured of cfs? > <<<snip>> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 On 11/3/06, martin19671967 <martinpianist@...> wrote: > I just watched the Cheney DVD The Heart of the Matter. > Does that mean then that if we all have a heart transplant, we will be > cured of cfs? No because the heart problem is downstream from the energy problem. > He mentions near the end in question time about hypothyroid and says > that cfs people are hypo. However, most peoples thyroid results are > always in the normal range, so I dont understand why he says this. I think he said in the 2005 viedo that the receptors are down-regulated. > So, is Cheney basically saying this heart problem comes from a > disruption of energy production, but he doesnt know what is causing > the energy malfunction? He spent quite a long time talking about the > Super oxide and a trio of chemicals that are out of shape (cant > remember now exactly). My take-away is that he now believes that ther is a defect in the system that deals with the toxic by-products of energy production. Superoxide is produced and *must* be gotten rid of, but the thing to do that - SuperOxide Dismutase - doesn;t do it well enough for whatever reason. Or, SOD does it's job, so the next very bad thing produced ios hydrogen peroxide and the paths that get rid of that - one involving catalase and the other involving 'reduced glutathione' (as opposed to oxidized glutathione) - aren;t working. If these are working you get to water and carbon dioxide. If all of these aren't working, you end up with stuff so bad that the body can' tolerate it, so (the theory goes) as a *defensive* mechanism, the body cuts back on energy production, via changes in oxygen delivery and/or hormone receptor changes - until the by-products of energy production are produced in low enough amounts that they can be handled properly, or mostly properly. - Bob Niederman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Wish everyone could have worked with Cheney and seen him in action. He taught me a lot. He has always focused on the pieces he can verify. None of his concepts have ever changed, but he is fairly restrained in what he claims - so as not to overstep the science. He makes the best observation based on the piece of the puzzle that he can - and makes statements in accordance with the bits that he can prove - none of which conflict with other earlier observations. When everyone went utterly insane with firm conviction that because they saw EBV go wild, that this illness was CEBV, Dr C just looked at EBV's capacity and found it questionable. He found exclusionary evidence and believed it - and kept on trucking. But when he brings out a portion of what he sees, it's often overblown into concepts of total causality - which is not what he says. Whatever Dr C talks about has always been a reproducible piece of the phenomenon that he's teased a little more information out of. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 -I guess you are talking about a long time ago re Cheney because I have never heard him recently talk about toxic mold or mycotoxins?? So are you referring to the time when Cheney believed in CFS and before you came to realize it was mold related (in your case at least)? Mike C > > Wish everyone could have worked with Cheney and seen him in action. > He taught me a lot. > He has always focused on the pieces he can verify. > None of his concepts have ever changed, but he is fairly restrained in > what he claims - so as not to overstep the science. > He makes the best observation based on the piece of the puzzle that he > can - and makes statements in accordance with the bits that he can > prove - none of which conflict with other earlier observations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Cheney used to speak on occasion to the Charlotte, NC support group. My recollection of his big summary of the possibilities was that cfs was either caused by " a handful of infections you could count on the fingers of both hands " or " the terrain. " I think mold would fall into the category of terrain. Of course, my own bias always has been that cfs and fms are caused by a handful of infections with some mold on the side. Cheney tried to treat some patients with antibiotics, and they did not recover, or so he thought, or not to the level he hoped. As a result he stopped trying to treat cfs as if it was an infectious disease and started worrying about the risks of longterm antibiotics. Having said that, I must say that I have the greatest respect for Cheney and his brilliance. He does an amazing job of defining what is going on in cfs. I still think he is minimizing the cause, perhaps because it is easier to treat the symptoms than try to treat the infections which may be all but untreatable. And then there is the NC medical board which currently frowns upon, well gets really angry about, longterm high dose antibiotics. Tisk, tisk. a Carnes Naturalized southerner > > -I guess you are talking about a long time ago re Cheney because > I have never heard him recently talk about toxic mold or > mycotoxins?? So are you referring to the time when Cheney believed > in CFS and before you came to realize it was mold related (in your > case at least)? > > Mike C > > > > > > > > Wish everyone could have worked with Cheney and seen him in action. > > He taught me a lot. > > He has always focused on the pieces he can verify. > > None of his concepts have ever changed, but he is fairly restrained > in > > what he claims - so as not to overstep the science. > > He makes the best observation based on the piece of the puzzle that > he > > can - and makes statements in accordance with the bits that he can > > prove - none of which conflict with other earlier observations. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 But most people don't show up for infections. Their serology tests are usually normal or negative. I have the Q fever bug in my serology (negative) and herpes virus was borderline I believe (1/32) But, I have never had much pain and I have never thought really that there was an ongoing infection, so Cheney's ideas about energy metabolism may be getting there.....that's if it isn't just thyroid receptors which cause CFS as someone stated C says the thyroid receptors are down regulated. Although, come to think of it, I heard recently that Lyme/borreliosis was thought maybe to " block " the thyroid receptors and this is another organism in the possible puzzle of cfs causation. whatever it is, it has as says got to fit the facts. It must fit the fact that cfs can happen in epidemic form to lots of people at the same time...Iceland, royal free hosp, lake tahoe, etc. as well as sporadically....5% dont get pain.........relapse and remitting illness etc In , " pjeanneus " <pj7@...> wrote: > > Cheney used to speak on occasion to the Charlotte, NC support group. > My recollection of his big summary of the possibilities was that cfs > was either caused by " a handful of infections you could count on the > fingers of both hands " or " the terrain. " I think mold would fall into > the category of terrain. > > Of course, my own bias always has been that cfs and fms are caused by > a handful of infections with some mold on the side. Cheney tried to > treat some patients with antibiotics, and they did not recover, or so > he thought, or not to the level he hoped. As a result he stopped > trying to treat cfs as if it was an infectious disease and started > worrying about the risks of longterm antibiotics. > > Having said that, I must say that I have the greatest respect for > Cheney and his brilliance. He does an amazing job of defining what is > going on in cfs. I still think he is minimizing the cause, perhaps > because it is easier to treat the symptoms than try to treat the > infections which may be all but untreatable. > > And then there is the NC medical board which currently frowns upon, > well gets really angry about, longterm high dose antibiotics. Tisk, > tisk. > > a Carnes > Naturalized southerner > > > > > -I guess you are talking about a long time ago re Cheney because > > I have never heard him recently talk about toxic mold or > > mycotoxins?? So are you referring to the time when Cheney believed > > in CFS and before you came to realize it was mold related (in your > > case at least)? > > > > Mike C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wish everyone could have worked with Cheney and seen him in > action. > > > He taught me a lot. > > > He has always focused on the pieces he can verify. > > > None of his concepts have ever changed, but he is fairly > restrained > > in > > > what he claims - so as not to overstep the science. > > > He makes the best observation based on the piece of the puzzle > that > > he > > > can - and makes statements in accordance with the bits that he > can > > > prove - none of which conflict with other earlier observations. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Mike I bought the DVD R version martin In , " yakcamp22 " <yakcamp22@...> wrote: > > -could you please tell me which kind of DVD you purchased? > There is a DVD-R option, a DVD-RW, and others that I can't remember > like DVD-R only. I just have a regular DVD player that plays DVDs > that we rent occasionally from Blockbuster. Thanks in advance > to anyone. I have promised to purchase these DVDs and send them to > someone who can make more sense out of them than i can. > > Mike C > > > > > > > > I just watched the Cheney DVD The Heart of the Matter. > > Does that mean then that if we all have a heart transplant, we will > be > > cured of cfs? > <<<snip>> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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