Re: L-Tryptophan - first night, nothing happened - help?

[Guest guest]

Try the trypto for about four nights. If it doesn't kick in by then, take 2 (or

just increase the dose) It takes a while.

It actually shortens my sleep, but way better. I doubled my dose last night and

today is SO much better!

Adrienne

L-Tryptophan - first night, nothing happened -

help?

(Apologies if this arrives twice - 's moaning at me...)

After the various useful threads on this last a few days ago, in most

of which people describe sleep improvements on l-tryptophan, I decided

to try it out and ordered some - tried my first dose last night.

Nothing happened! We each have different chemistry, but I'm wondering

if anyone successfully using this can give advice on how to take it.

My problems: in phases, on and off for a few months or so my sleep goes

from its norm of " poor " to awful, and I'm currently in a two-month

dip whereby I never feel I get restful sleep. Every night consists

of skinning the surface of sleep, frequently waking, lucid unpleasant

dreams in which I'm half aware I'm dreaming, and waking suddenly

after 4-5 hours. When I wake I feel utterly exhausted, like I've

run a marathon and can't sleep again. Heart beat sometimes racing

at waking time, sometimes quiet. No obvious anxiety on waking,

What I've tried before: had adrenals checked with spit test (ok), tried

most herbal remedies, sleep hygiene, Nytol, melatonin, amitriptyline,

magnesium before sleep, lettuce! Tried eating/not eating for the

hours before sleep. Tried a number of prescription sleeping pills:

the only one that works for me is Zolpidem/Ambien, which seems to push

my sleep deeper (usually, not always) but works for only 4-5 hours.

Thus if I wake early enough I sometimes take a second 5mg ambien, which

sometimes helps me sleep longer, sometimes not. Although drugged

sleep isn't great, when I do take it it usually feels better than

the normal sleep I get. Problem is of course: my GP won't prescribe

endless ambien as he doesn't want me to get dependent.

I should add I don't have classic insomnia: I almost always drop off

to sleep quickly. It's the quality and nature of the sleep that

is awful. Also add that I take 10mg diazepam a night, mainly for

anxiety - don't think it helps much with sleep.

When I wake I feel like I've been through 100 years of dreams, usually

resulting in very poor memory of the previous day/weeks: almost as

if my dream experiences blot out anything else. Whenever I'm woken

unexpectedly in the night by something external I'm always mid-dream

- it seems I never enter delta or stage four sleep, if I understand

this right.

So I tried L-Tryptophan: " Doctor's Best " brand, 500mg last night 45

minutes before sleep. It did nothing! Question: what do I try with

it now? Seem to be a few suggestions on the net:

1) Up the dose to 1000mg. Is this wise? Should I take one of the

doses earlier?

2) Take with vitamin B6 or a B complex. If so, how much?

3) Take with a meal before sleep rather than an empty stomach - advice

seemingly conflicts online. Would this be a light carb-only meal with

no protein? Suggestions?

Thanks for any ideas! It was relatively expensive buying this in the

UK, and I don't want to chuck the tub out without trying it properly.

I'm just very disappointed after how helpful it's obviously been

for others...

Honey

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

>

> (Apologies if this arrives twice - 's moaning at me...)

>

> After the various useful threads on this last a few days ago, in

most

> of which people describe sleep improvements on l-tryptophan, I

decided

> to try it out and ordered some - tried my first dose last night.

> Nothing happened! We each have different chemistry, but I'm

wondering

> if anyone successfully using this can give advice on how to take

it.

>

> My problems: in phases, on and off for a few months or so my sleep

goes

> from its norm of " poor " to awful, and I'm currently in a two-month

> dip whereby I never feel I get restful sleep. Every night consists

> of skinning the surface of sleep, frequently waking, lucid

unpleasant

> dreams in which I'm half aware I'm dreaming, and waking suddenly

> after 4-5 hours. When I wake I feel utterly exhausted, like I've

> run a marathon and can't sleep again. Heart beat sometimes racing

> at waking time, sometimes quiet. No obvious anxiety on waking,

>

> What I've tried before: had adrenals checked with spit test (ok),

tried

> most herbal remedies, sleep hygiene, Nytol, melatonin,

amitriptyline,

> magnesium before sleep, lettuce! Tried eating/not eating for the

> hours before sleep. Tried a number of prescription sleeping pills:

> the only one that works for me is Zolpidem/Ambien, which seems to

push

> my sleep deeper (usually, not always) but works for only 4-5 hours.

> Thus if I wake early enough I sometimes take a second 5mg ambien,

which

> sometimes helps me sleep longer, sometimes not. Although drugged

> sleep isn't great, when I do take it it usually feels better than

> the normal sleep I get. Problem is of course: my GP won't

prescribe

> endless ambien as he doesn't want me to get dependent.

>

> I should add I don't have classic insomnia: I almost always drop

off

> to sleep quickly. It's the quality and nature of the sleep that

> is awful. Also add that I take 10mg diazepam a night, mainly for

> anxiety - don't think it helps much with sleep.

>

> When I wake I feel like I've been through 100 years of dreams,

usually

> resulting in very poor memory of the previous day/weeks: almost as

> if my dream experiences blot out anything else. Whenever I'm woken

> unexpectedly in the night by something external I'm always mid-

dream

> - it seems I never enter delta or stage four sleep, if I understand

> this right.

>

> So I tried L-Tryptophan: " Doctor's Best " brand, 500mg last night 45

> minutes before sleep. It did nothing! Question: what do I try

with

> it now? Seem to be a few suggestions on the net:

>

> 1) Up the dose to 1000mg. Is this wise? Should I take one of the

> doses earlier?

>

> 2) Take with vitamin B6 or a B complex. If so, how much?

>

> 3) Take with a meal before sleep rather than an empty stomach -

advice

> seemingly conflicts online. Would this be a light carb-only meal

with

> no protein? Suggestions?

>

> Thanks for any ideas! It was relatively expensive buying this in

the

> UK, and I don't want to chuck the tub out without trying it

properly.

> I'm just very disappointed after how helpful it's obviously been

> for others...

>

> Honey

I know it is a nightmare not sleeping..I have been through the mill

with sleeping pills etc. etc..Whether is was just the right time for

me or the alternitives just work who knows..I certainly felt I had

to get of all meds and take charge of some part of my life. I tried

the 5HTP and magnesium at night and it works for me pretty well.

Getting off the meds was a huge step forward and would never ever go

that road again. You really need to persevere with any supplements

for a while unless you have a bad reaction of course. I am fine with

sleep unless I have too many people staying over with lots of

conversation before bed and then my mind is so hard to stop running

on and on and on like a picture show really..That is very freaky but

shows the weakness in me. BW Dianne

>

[Guest guest]

re the tryptophan, take it away from protein, which will render it

ineffective, and take it with something sweet, I have fruit at night.

That helps it get into the brain.

Helen

> >

> > (Apologies if this arrives twice - 's moaning at me...)

> >

> > After the various useful threads on this last a few days ago, in

> most

> > of which people describe sleep improvements on l-tryptophan, I

> decided

> > to try it out and ordered some - tried my first dose last night.

> > Nothing happened! We each have different chemistry, but I'm

> wondering

> > if anyone successfully using this can give advice on how to take

> it.

> >

> > My problems: in phases, on and off for a few months or so my

sleep

> goes

> > from its norm of " poor " to awful, and I'm currently in a two-month

> > dip whereby I never feel I get restful sleep. Every night

consists

> > of skinning the surface of sleep, frequently waking, lucid

> unpleasant

> > dreams in which I'm half aware I'm dreaming, and waking suddenly

> > after 4-5 hours. When I wake I feel utterly exhausted, like I've

> > run a marathon and can't sleep again. Heart beat sometimes racing

> > at waking time, sometimes quiet. No obvious anxiety on waking,

> >

> > What I've tried before: had adrenals checked with spit test (ok),

> tried

> > most herbal remedies, sleep hygiene, Nytol, melatonin,

> amitriptyline,

> > magnesium before sleep, lettuce! Tried eating/not eating for the

> > hours before sleep. Tried a number of prescription sleeping

pills:

> > the only one that works for me is Zolpidem/Ambien, which seems to

> push

> > my sleep deeper (usually, not always) but works for only 4-5

hours.

> > Thus if I wake early enough I sometimes take a second 5mg ambien,

> which

> > sometimes helps me sleep longer, sometimes not. Although drugged

> > sleep isn't great, when I do take it it usually feels better than

> > the normal sleep I get. Problem is of course: my GP won't

> prescribe

> > endless ambien as he doesn't want me to get dependent.

> >

> > I should add I don't have classic insomnia: I almost always drop

> off

> > to sleep quickly. It's the quality and nature of the sleep that

> > is awful. Also add that I take 10mg diazepam a night, mainly for

> > anxiety - don't think it helps much with sleep.

> >

> > When I wake I feel like I've been through 100 years of dreams,

> usually

> > resulting in very poor memory of the previous day/weeks: almost as

> > if my dream experiences blot out anything else. Whenever I'm

woken

> > unexpectedly in the night by something external I'm always mid-

> dream

> > - it seems I never enter delta or stage four sleep, if I

understand

> > this right.

> >

> > So I tried L-Tryptophan: " Doctor's Best " brand, 500mg last night

45

> > minutes before sleep. It did nothing! Question: what do I try

> with

> > it now? Seem to be a few suggestions on the net:

> >

> > 1) Up the dose to 1000mg. Is this wise? Should I take one of the

> > doses earlier?

> >

> > 2) Take with vitamin B6 or a B complex. If so, how much?

> >

> > 3) Take with a meal before sleep rather than an empty stomach -

> advice

> > seemingly conflicts online. Would this be a light carb-only meal

> with

> > no protein? Suggestions?

> >

> > Thanks for any ideas! It was relatively expensive buying this in

> the

> > UK, and I don't want to chuck the tub out without trying it

> properly.

> > I'm just very disappointed after how helpful it's obviously been

> > for others...

> >

> > Honey

>

> I know it is a nightmare not sleeping..I have been through the mill

> with sleeping pills etc. etc..Whether is was just the right time

for

> me or the alternitives just work who knows..I certainly felt I had

> to get of all meds and take charge of some part of my life. I tried

> the 5HTP and magnesium at night and it works for me pretty well.

> Getting off the meds was a huge step forward and would never ever

go

> that road again. You really need to persevere with any supplements

> for a while unless you have a bad reaction of course. I am fine

with

> sleep unless I have too many people staying over with lots of

> conversation before bed and then my mind is so hard to stop running

> on and on and on like a picture show really..That is very freaky

but

> shows the weakness in me. BW Dianne

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I take tryptophan powder from beyond-a-century.com. About a scant tsp

- should be a scant 1000mg - maybe 800 to hazard a guess. It helps me

get to sleep; staying asleep 6 hours is not a problem and I don't

know what would lengthen the sleep. I take it just before bed and let

it swish around in my mouth a while - I'm guessing some is absorbed

quickly through the mouth mucosa rather than being digested and going

the long way. . .

[Guest guest]

Hi Honey,

My bottle of Source Naturals L-tryptophan 500 mg tablets says:

" Suggested Use: 1 tablet 3 times daily, between meals and preferably

with fruit juice. To support restful sleep, take 3 tablets before

bed. "

From this, it seems that upping the dose to either 1000 or 1500 would

be okay. (From my reading of this label, it seems that taking 6

tablets -- 3000 mg -- in one 24-hour period would be fine, but I

never figured it out this far for myself.)

I hope this helps.

in Champaign IL

>[...] So I tried L-Tryptophan: " Doctor's Best " brand, 500mg last

night 45

> minutes before sleep. It did nothing! Question: what do I try with

> it now? Seem to be a few suggestions on the net:

>

> 1) Up the dose to 1000mg. Is this wise? Should I take one of the

> doses earlier?

>

> 2) Take with vitamin B6 or a B complex. If so, how much?

>

> 3) Take with a meal before sleep rather than an empty stomach -

advice

> seemingly conflicts online. Would this be a light carb-only meal

with

> no protein? Suggestions?

>

> Thanks for any ideas! It was relatively expensive buying this in

the

> UK, and I don't want to chuck the tub out without trying it

properly.

> I'm just very disappointed after how helpful it's obviously been

> for others...

>

> Honey

>

[Guest guest]

From the website where I get my trypto for many years now:

How Do Physicians Recommend Taking

L-Tryptophan?

For occasional sleeplessness, many respected physicians have their patients take

two 500 mg capsules an hour before bedtime - sometimes adding an extra capsule

right at bedtime for those who have trouble staying asleep. L-Tryptophan can

also help those who fall asleep readily, but occasionally wake-up too early. A

capsule or two by the bedside, that can be easily taken, has been a real

life-saver for those nights when you're stirred awake at three A.M.

To support a good mood, L-Tryptophan can be taken at any time of the day, but

it's most commonly taken in the evening. After all, a good night's sleep is

often the crucial first step towards chasing away depression. For a great mood,

to relieve premenstrual symptoms and to break the cycle of muscle pain from

exercise, knowledgeable physicians suggest starting with two capsules, then

increasing the dose to one capsule for every 50 pounds of body weight.

The bottle itself adds;do not exceed 4 grams/day.

Adrienne

Re: L-Tryptophan - first night, nothing happened

- help?

Hi Honey,

My bottle of Source Naturals L-tryptophan 500 mg tablets says:

" Suggested Use: 1 tablet 3 times daily, between meals and preferably

with fruit juice. To support restful sleep, take 3 tablets before

bed. "

From this, it seems that upping the dose to either 1000 or 1500 would

be okay. (From my reading of this label, it seems that taking 6

tablets -- 3000 mg -- in one 24-hour period would be fine, but I

never figured it out this far for myself.)

I hope this helps.

in Champaign IL

>[...] So I tried L-Tryptophan: " Doctor's Best " brand, 500mg last

night 45

> minutes before sleep. It did nothing! Question: what do I try with

> it now? Seem to be a few suggestions on the net:

>

> 1) Up the dose to 1000mg. Is this wise? Should I take one of the

> doses earlier?

>

> 2) Take with vitamin B6 or a B complex. If so, how much?

>

> 3) Take with a meal before sleep rather than an empty stomach -

advice

> seemingly conflicts online. Would this be a light carb-only meal

with

> no protein? Suggestions?

>

> Thanks for any ideas! It was relatively expensive buying this in

the

> UK, and I don't want to chuck the tub out without trying it

properly.

> I'm just very disappointed after how helpful it's obviously been

> for others...

>

> Honey

>

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

I hope you can get sleep straightened out, this was the first symptom

i addressed when i came down with this and seems like i've totally

lost my circadian rhythm/sleep cycle...i think most will agree this

is also the most important thing to get under control.

as i understand it, most people take something for sleep initiation

(to put you to sleep) and something for sleep maintenance... like

most people (i think)--i use clonazepam to initiate sleep since it is

much shorter acting and quicker onset of action than diazepam

(valium); there is a list of meds for sleep maintenance which i can't

find right off hand, but i've stayed on remeron sol-tab (30-45

mg)...on top of that i take fairly high doses of melatonin and get 9-

10 hours regularly (which really surprised me i was sleeping that

long!); haven't been on-line in awhile but i noticed Dr. T. site is

saying we SHOULD get 9 hrs sleep. never been a big ambien fan anyway

although the big selling point when they fist came out with it

was " it increases stage 4 REM sleep " blah blah

i know everybody's not the same, so this is just me.

have you thought about decreasing your valium dose slowly? and what

are you doing for anti-depressant as alot of people (i think) are

using the side effect of the anti-depressant as promoting prolonged

sleep...

i'm not anti-herb btw, althought i haven't hugged a tree today yet

either! imho sleep is such a major problem with most that meds are

required and fine tune it by herbs/supp (valerian, l-tryp etc)...so i

hope you get this straightened out with your doc.

BTW, any benzo or ambien comes with a " this is for short term use

only " type of language, so your doc is afraid of you

becoming " dependant/addicted " to it etc, BUT this is a chronic

problem and is going to require long term use of whatever, so the

only thing i can suggest is maybe you visit Dr. Teitelbaum site (not

that i'm a big fan of his), he states somewhere that some people

taking up to 6 mg of klonapin (which seems a bit hefty to me,

but?)...other consideration you may want to medline search is the

long term use of ambien i.e. effectiveness...LOL

LAST THING I need it to be fighting over Rx's with my doc.

off to check the sidebar to see if there's a poll done on this

[Guest guest]

How do you feel when you wake up from 9 hrs of sleeping? are you alert and

focused? How do yt muscles and joints work?

Thanks,

Adrienne

Re: L-Tryptophan - first night, nothing happened

- help?

I hope you can get sleep straightened out, this was the first symptom

i addressed when i came down with this and seems like i've totally

lost my circadian rhythm/sleep cycle...i think most will agree this

is also the most important thing to get under control.

as i understand it, most people take something for sleep initiation

(to put you to sleep) and something for sleep maintenance... like

most people (i think)--i use clonazepam to initiate sleep since it is

much shorter acting and quicker onset of action than diazepam

(valium); there is a list of meds for sleep maintenance which i can't

find right off hand, but i've stayed on remeron sol-tab (30-45

mg)...on top of that i take fairly high doses of melatonin and get 9-

10 hours regularly (which really surprised me i was sleeping that

long!); haven't been on-line in awhile but i noticed Dr. T. site is

saying we SHOULD get 9 hrs sleep. never been a big ambien fan anyway

although the big selling point when they fist came out with it

was " it increases stage 4 REM sleep " blah blah

i know everybody's not the same, so this is just me.

have you thought about decreasing your valium dose slowly? and what

are you doing for anti-depressant as alot of people (i think) are

using the side effect of the anti-depressant as promoting prolonged

sleep...

i'm not anti-herb btw, althought i haven't hugged a tree today yet

either! imho sleep is such a major problem with most that meds are

required and fine tune it by herbs/supp (valerian, l-tryp etc)...so i

hope you get this straightened out with your doc.

BTW, any benzo or ambien comes with a " this is for short term use

only " type of language, so your doc is afraid of you

becoming " dependant/addicted " to it etc, BUT this is a chronic

problem and is going to require long term use of whatever, so the

only thing i can suggest is maybe you visit Dr. Teitelbaum site (not

that i'm a big fan of his), he states somewhere that some people

taking up to 6 mg of klonapin (which seems a bit hefty to me,

but?)...other consideration you may want to medline search is the

long term use of ambien i.e. effectiveness...LOL

LAST THING I need it to be fighting over Rx's with my doc.

off to check the sidebar to see if there's a poll done on this

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

>

> How do you feel when you wake up from 9 hrs of sleeping? are you

alert and focused? How do yt muscles and joints work?

> Thanks,

> Adrienne

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: spite.check

No, of course not, and i would be interested in doing whatever it is

that someone is doing that does wake up feeling " wonderful " ; i think

this is part of the case definition " unrefreshing sleep " and is the

alpha-wave intrusion thingy. But i don't feel " groggy " either. Ain't

no silver bullet for this thing, i was just surprised to be sleeping

that long, and i don't take anybody's suggestions as gospel truth. I

think most people take 30 min or so " wake up " mentally which is

me...i never thought it a wise thing to go on modafinil (amphtamine

lite) but i'm sure that would get me alert quicker. got any cocoa

leaf? just kiddin.

and wasn't disagreeing with anybody that takes l-tryp and 5-HTP

either, i have too and i think others have alot more experience with

them (also i haven't been on this site for a couple years which i

kind of regret cause there's a ton of experience on this site) but

these are the building blocks of serotonin and norepinephrine. used

a NSRI (ixel=milnacipran) for awhile, and NE is supposed to help more

with alertness from what i understand (and it did seem to do that) i

think they've shown we're not low on serotonin. thinking of going

back on it cause i liked what it did but i think i have to be careful

combining it with the remeron, i think they both bump serotonin and

you gotta be careful with that i think (read- serotonin syndrome)--

5HTP, samE, st john's all inc. serotonin too. on the other hand i

don't know if anybody's ever shown we get depleted of a certain NT?

only point was is that most people stress you have to get your sleep

under control which i long believed and know from experience. if

you've ever stayed up b/c you were out of meds and got low on sleep

then you know what i mean. As for the second part i think you need

to follow what most people are saying as far as the mitochondria

and " bioenergetics " go, e.g. posts on d-ribose, l-carnitine, coQ etc.

or even NT factor...i do alot of static stretching (no tai chi yet!!

waaa! or was that grasshopper?). sometimes i wonder who's taking the

longest list of stuff out there! there is a rationale for everything

tho and we all wanna take stuff that helps.

i don't think anyone that truly has this can go past a certain

barrier physically, taking all these supplements will help to a point

and that's it, i have come to face that i have a " physical envelope "

i have to respect. i think i'm like everybody else, if i overdo it

i'm going to hurt for it. i knew i was gonna suffer for playing a

few innings of softball yesterday but it was my nephew's b-day so i

did it anyway. ouchie's today.

eat more omega 3's, remodel the brain... that's my big fear--going

downhill mentally, so i like reading the neurocognitive stuff. i

shouldn't have quit keeping up with this tho, it just got depressing

if you know what i mean. and i hate to bitch, it's just that after

having been off this site for awhile you can't find diddly, whose

gonna go back and read 50,000 threads? like that latest antibiotic

they were talking about is good info, but i wonder if it inhibits

elastase...silly me, that's not it's purpose. nite.

[Guest guest]

I would try 1000mgs or in that area, and yes, definitely take it with carbs --

maybe a

baked potato if you can tolerate that. If you eat other proteins, they'll

interfere with it's

metabolism.

d.

> >[...] So I tried L-Tryptophan: " Doctor's Best " brand, 500mg last

> night 45

> > minutes before sleep. It did nothing! Question: what do I try with

> > it now? Seem to be a few suggestions on the net:

> >

> > 1) Up the dose to 1000mg. Is this wise? Should I take one of the

> > doses earlier?

> >

> > 2) Take with vitamin B6 or a B complex. If so, how much?

> >

> > 3) Take with a meal before sleep rather than an empty stomach -

> advice

> > seemingly conflicts online. Would this be a light carb-only meal

> with

> > no protein? Suggestions?

> >

> > Thanks for any ideas! It was relatively expensive buying this in

> the

> > UK, and I don't want to chuck the tub out without trying it

> properly.

> > I'm just very disappointed after how helpful it's obviously been

> > for others...

> >

> > Honey

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to

give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here,

please consult

your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

I wanted to belatedly thank all those who responded a couple of weeks

ago about my questions on L-Tryptophan dosing in the hope of improving

sleep quality, and pose a question. I did take the advice and up the

dose - I got as far as 1000mg, and took it for three nights running,

and, if I saw an increase in sleep quality it was unfortunately only

marginal. However what I did get, and why I've been gone(!) is bad

gastric symptoms. This may be coincident, or caused by the fact that I

was also trialling HCl supplementation at the same time, so will have to

try separately at some stage again. But I do read that 5-HTP, a related

supplement, most commonly causes gastric side-effects.

Has anyone taking tryptophan had such problems? In my case: very

trapped feeling, little relieved by burping, and constipation; bad

long-lasting stomach or intestinal ache, relieved briefly on eating then

returning.

These subsided a day or so after I discontinued the tryptophan (and

HCl). A third possible cause may have been suddenly taking (low dose)

B-complex vitamins, which I read help tryptophan take-up in the brain.

I did take all these after a meal, and, as advised, tryptophan on pure

carbs an hour before bed (a banana).

Any advice appreciated. I'm a bit scared to retry it to be honest,

as it hurt. But I'm back on zolpidem/ambien, which does help,

and my sleep is gradually improving a bit I think, although it's

still pretty awful. I'm just scared off by all the scare stories of

sleeping pill dependence.

Honey