Re: Model for CFS primary factors.

[Guest guest]

HI Rich,

So my questionw would be since I started taking Whey Protein Isolate to raise

my glutathione and it has 36 mg of lactoferrin in it, would it cause a viginal

yeast infection that I cannot get rid of???. (Yeast die off from the gut??)

Thank you for your help,

Janet

in San Diego

rvankonynen <richvank@...> wrote:

Hi, Gail.

Lactoferrin is a protein found in raw milk (hence the " lacto " ) that

binds iron (hence the " ferrin " ). It is part of the whey fraction

when milk is curdled. If the milk is pasteurized, the lactoferrin

is destroyed.

In a young mammal, the functions of lactoferrin appear to be 1) to

bind iron in order to deprive unfriendly gut bacteria from getting

it, 2)to allow the young mammal to absorb the iron for its use, and

3) to serve as a source of amino acids.

Lactoferrin will also suppress yeast infections in the gut, and can

produce a significant yeast die-off.

In the whey protein products, lactoferrin is present in whey protein

concentrates, i.e. those that are made from unpasteurized,

unacidified milk (ImmunePro Rx, RenewPro and The True Whey) and are

not byproducts of cheesemaking. It is also present in some whey

protein isolate products, which are byproducts of cheesemaking, to

which it has been added from a separate processing stream that has

not been pasteurized or acidified, as the bulk of the whey protein

isolates have.

Rich

>

> What is lactoferrin?

> Gail

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Janet.

No, I don't think it would do that. In fact, if one were to arrange

some way to apply lactoferrin " down there, " it might actually knock

out the yeast. I have read advice in the past from ladies on the

list to the effect that yogurt, similarly applied, can be beneficial

in that regard as well, since the acidophilus bacteria lower the pH

into a regime that is not hospitable to the yeast. I recommend that

you consult someone with more experience (as in any experience at

all!) as to the actual mechanics of doing this. Maybe it's even

an " off-list " topic! I hope the moderator doesn't get me for the

explicit nature of this post!(:-)

Rich

> >

> > What is lactoferrin?

> > Gail

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested

in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" HI Rich,

So my questionw would be since I started taking Whey Protein Isolate to

raise my glutathione and it has 36 mg of lactoferrin in it, would it cause a

viginal yeast infection that I cannot get rid of???. (Yeast die off from the

gut??)

Thank you for your help,

Janet

in San Diego "

*****The lactoferrin should help reverse the situation. At some point later

you may want to add coconut oil also. I took lactoferrin seperately.

Regards

CS

[Guest guest]

" Thank you Rich for your help. I thought you kept it very clean!!!

Something is causing this, it is the worst problem I have ever had with it!!!!

Had

two dyfluncan tablets already and its still going strong. Along with other

topical stuff designed to kill it.

I will keep searching,

Janet

in San Diego "

****Apart from the internal; supps that you take - I would certainly

consider a natural probiotic topical cream. There are various on the market.

Regards

CS

[Guest guest]

" Hi Janet,

You are probably plagued, like several of us, with " yeast issues " . I don't

know if you have read any of my posts where I talked about the success I have

had with bifidus powder, but I will tell you, it works great. If you

haven't read them and are interested, I would be happy to pass the information

on

to you. If as Rich said, this is an " off-list topic " , or if you would just

prefer, feel free to email me at dawnmunn@.... I also wanted to

caution you that if this infection is in any way different than yeast

infections

you have had in the past (esp. if there is a foul odor, gray or yellow

discharge, you have a fever, or severe pain), you may need to see your doctor

as it

could be a bacterial infection. Sometimes when women believe that they have a

yeast infection and it won't go away despite treatment, bacteria is suspect.

Hope this helps. If indeed it is yeast, lots of yogurt! And yes, I would

agree with Rich. While I am personally just too squeamish to put anything

" up there " , my OB has recommended it to me before and I have known of other

women to have success with it also. But, honestly, if you can, I would highly

recommend the bifidus powder. I hope maybe this helps a little. I know that

it is miserable to have a yeast infection that will not go away.

Take care,

Dawn "

****If you ahvea yeast problem you may also have alot of heavy metals in

your system along with other bugs.

Regards

CS

[Guest guest]

Thank you Rich for your help. I thought you kept it very clean!!! Something is

causing this, it is the worst problem I have ever had with it!!!! Had two

dyfluncan tablets already and its still going strong. Along with other topical

stuff designed to kill it.

I will keep searching,

Janet

in San Diego

rvankonynen <richvank@...> wrote:

Hi, Janet.

No, I don't think it would do that. In fact, if one were to arrange

some way to apply lactoferrin " down there, " it might actually knock

out the yeast. I have read advice in the past from ladies on the

list to the effect that yogurt, similarly applied, can be beneficial

in that regard as well, since the acidophilus bacteria lower the pH

into a regime that is not hospitable to the yeast. I recommend that

you consult someone with more experience (as in any experience at

all!) as to the actual mechanics of doing this. Maybe it's even

an " off-list " topic! I hope the moderator doesn't get me for the

explicit nature of this post!(:-)

Rich

> >

> > What is lactoferrin?

> > Gail

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested

in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Janet,

You are probably plagued, like several of us, with " yeast issues " . I don't know

if you have read any of my posts where I talked about the success I have had

with bifidus powder, but I will tell you, it works great. If you haven't read

them and are interested, I would be happy to pass the information on to you. If

as Rich said, this is an " off-list topic " , or if you would just prefer, feel

free to email me at dawnmunn@.... I also wanted to caution you that if

this infection is in any way different than yeast infections you have had in the

past (esp. if there is a foul odor, gray or yellow discharge, you have a fever,

or severe pain), you may need to see your doctor as it could be a bacterial

infection. Sometimes when women believe that they have a yeast infection and it

won't go away despite treatment, bacteria is suspect. Hope this helps. If

indeed it is yeast, lots of yogurt! And yes, I would agree with Rich. While I

am personally just too squeamish to put anything " up there " , my OB has

recommended it to me before and I have known of other women to have success with

it also. But, honestly, if you can, I would highly recommend the bifidus

powder. I hope maybe this helps a little. I know that it is miserable to have

a yeast infection that will not go away.

Take care,

Dawn

Hi, Janet.> > No, I don't think it would do that. In fact, if one were to

arrange > some way to apply lactoferrin " down there, " it might actually knock >

out the yeast. I have read advice in the past from ladies on the > list to the

effect that yogurt, similarly applied, can be beneficial > in that regard as

well, since the acidophilus bacteria lower the pH > into a regime that is not

hospitable to the yeast. I recommend that > you consult someone with more

experience (as in any experience at > all!) as to the actual mechanics of doing

this. Maybe it's even > an " off-list " topic! I hope the moderator doesn't get

me for the > explicit nature of this post!(:-)> > Rich

Enter the Windows Live Mail beta sweepstakes

http://www.imagine-msn.com/minisites/sweepstakes/mail/register.aspx

[Guest guest]

>

> Thank you Rich for your help. I thought you kept it very clean!!!

Something is causing this, it is the worst problem I have ever had

with it!!!! Had two dyfluncan tablets already and its still going

strong. Along with other topical stuff designed to kill it.

>

> I will keep searching,

>

> Janet

> in San Diego

>

>

Hi Janet

Just wanted to mention that I had this symptom for over 2 years,

nothing would touch it but at the same time I found out I was

mercury poisoned and had lots of large amalgam fillings removed and

chelated out the mercury using alpha lipoic acid.

It took over a year of chelation and then I went on to lots of

antibiotics cos it was thought I had borreliosis. These caused even

more yeast issues so I took lots of natural anti-fungals and also

Diflucan and Amphoceterin B lozenges at different times which were

very helpful (took them for many months). Anyway after 2 years it

gradually improved and I am pleased to say I haven't been troubled

by any vaginal yeast for well over 18 months it seems to have gone

for good and I also have lapsed my strict low carb diet a bit

without any problems arising.

Good Luck

Pam

[Guest guest]

HI Pam,

I had the mercury removed from my teeth in 2002. I changed my diet into a

little more carbs but not much. I have an appt with the GYN tomorrow and going

to try the bifidus powder as well. 2 years!! That's along time to put up with

this!

Thank you for your help,

Janet

in San Diego

doggy532001 <doggy532001@...> wrote:

>

> Thank you Rich for your help. I thought you kept it very clean!!!

Something is causing this, it is the worst problem I have ever had

with it!!!! Had two dyfluncan tablets already and its still going

strong. Along with other topical stuff designed to kill it.

>

> I will keep searching,

>

> Janet

> in San Diego

>

>

Hi Janet

Just wanted to mention that I had this symptom for over 2 years,

nothing would touch it but at the same time I found out I was

mercury poisoned and had lots of large amalgam fillings removed and

chelated out the mercury using alpha lipoic acid.

It took over a year of chelation and then I went on to lots of

antibiotics cos it was thought I had borreliosis. These caused even

more yeast issues so I took lots of natural anti-fungals and also

Diflucan and Amphoceterin B lozenges at different times which were

very helpful (took them for many months). Anyway after 2 years it

gradually improved and I am pleased to say I haven't been troubled

by any vaginal yeast for well over 18 months it seems to have gone

for good and I also have lapsed my strict low carb diet a bit

without any problems arising.

Good Luck

Pam

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

1 in 17? Interesting. How did they come to that estimation, I

wonder.

I have worked with several very well educated people that grew up

in Asia. One Chinese guy, a PHD in physics, has a brother who

practices Chinese medicine atill in Asia.

His global opinion is that in the Western world, the immune system

has been weakened over time by our abuse of the enviroment ( & what

we've done to food), and that those factors have given the pathogens

the upper hand. He also beleives in slow natural selection and thinks

that no matter what happens, there will be immune systems that will

survive anything, and continue the species. Adapt or die in other

words.

As far as past peoples of various areas, who lived a hard " natural "

live... they had a much shorter life span, and I imagine they

suffered in ways we'll never know (no dentists for one thing).

All you have to do is take a look at the continent of Africa

to get a good glimpse of human life (without medicine) struggling

against bacteria and parasites.

Barb

>

> Hi Penny,

>

> Did you know the CDC estimates that 1 in 17 people in the USA have

a latent TB infection? It seems that TB is much more of a problems in

people with immune issues such as those with AIDS, malnutrition, etc.

In Western Prices book 'Nutrition & Physical Degeneration' he writes

that the native American Indians who lived a native lisetyle (hunter-

gatherer diet, etc.) were basically immune to TB, and as soon as they

started eating like westerners they started dying of TB.

>

> Blake

> Re: Model for CFS primary factors.

>

>

> Blake, I'm sorry but first show me how you can kill TB without

> mainstream medicine and I might get interested. This is the kind

of

> thing we're dealing with here. Our bugs are just slower to kill

than

> TB, but just as damaging in the long run.

>

> Inflammation is designed to kill the infection. But it can kill

us

> too. For example, an inflammatory response to an invader commonly

> results in encephalitis. It can also result in cancer. You can

try

> to figure out what caused the inflammation that caused the cancer

if

> you want, but in the meantime the cancer will kill you. So you've

> got to deal with the stopping the most deadly thing first.

>

> Of course, fundamentally, we have to stop the source of the

> inflammation (infection), but we also have to calm the

inflammation

> down, so that we can access the source. It's a catch 22.

>

> It's like an aids patient with pneumonia. If you don't treat the

> pneumonia, he's going to die, aids or no aids. When inflammation

is

> raging, it blocks us from the source of the problem.

>

> Infection produces toxins and inflammation. Both designed to kill

> bacteria. But unfortunately, both can kill us too or make us very

> sick. Of course we need to support the immune system however we

can,

> eg. blood thinning, nutritional replenishment, etc. but once

you're

> as infected as we are, serious measures are called for.

>

> It's the lack of serious measures and widespread ignorance that

are

> keeping us sick. Ignorance in the sense that docs and general

folk

> are ignoring the real issues. Why are we all happy to keep

putzing

> around with herbs and vitamins when they don't have a chance

against

> the organisms we're really dealing with?

>

> Alternative medicine companies are making a fortune off of us,

and

> mainstream medicine is happy to ignore us, because actually

dealing

> with and treating our problem is going to cost billions of

dollars.

>

> We have to stop messing around and start demanding that

mainstream

> medicine take us seriously. That means back to the basics. Plain

old

> lab tests and cultures. Start looking at the everyday toxic bugs,

> not exotic " stealth " bugs.

>

> I have a vision that I'd like to implement. To create a non

profit

> organization that hires legitimate researchers to culture

organisms

> from the chronically ill and publish the results. We can also

test

> the bugs' sensitivities, so they can be treated effectively. When

> people finally see those results for what they are, how many of

us

> are infected with " normal " bugs, they'll no longer be able to

ignore

> us. When the problem is finally recognized for how big it really

is,

> they'll have no choice but to start focusing on better treatments.

>

> penny

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

10 to 15 million people in the US with latent TB infection.

10% if these people go on to active infection.

I didn't know it was this high.

REFERENCE:

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E & b=35433

> >

> > Hi Penny,

> >

> > Did you know the CDC estimates that 1 in 17 people in the USA

have

> a latent TB infection? It seems that TB is much more of a

problems in

> people with immune issues such as those with AIDS, malnutrition,

etc.

> In Western Prices book 'Nutrition & Physical Degeneration' he

writes

> that the native American Indians who lived a native lisetyle

(hunter-

> gatherer diet, etc.) were basically immune to TB, and as soon as

they

> started eating like westerners they started dying of TB.

> >

> > Blake

> > Re: Model for CFS primary

factors.

> >

> >

> > Blake, I'm sorry but first show me how you can kill TB

without

> > mainstream medicine and I might get interested. This is the

kind

> of

> > thing we're dealing with here. Our bugs are just slower to

kill

> than

> > TB, but just as damaging in the long run.

> >

> > Inflammation is designed to kill the infection. But it can

kill

> us

> > too. For example, an inflammatory response to an invader

commonly

> > results in encephalitis. It can also result in cancer. You

can

> try

> > to figure out what caused the inflammation that caused the

cancer

> if

> > you want, but in the meantime the cancer will kill you. So

you've

> > got to deal with the stopping the most deadly thing first.

> >

> > Of course, fundamentally, we have to stop the source of the

> > inflammation (infection), but we also have to calm the

> inflammation

> > down, so that we can access the source. It's a catch 22.

> >

> > It's like an aids patient with pneumonia. If you don't treat

the

> > pneumonia, he's going to die, aids or no aids. When

inflammation

> is

> > raging, it blocks us from the source of the problem.

> >

> > Infection produces toxins and inflammation. Both designed to

kill

> > bacteria. But unfortunately, both can kill us too or make us

very

> > sick. Of course we need to support the immune system however

we

> can,

> > eg. blood thinning, nutritional replenishment, etc. but once

> you're

> > as infected as we are, serious measures are called for.

> >

> > It's the lack of serious measures and widespread ignorance

that

> are

> > keeping us sick. Ignorance in the sense that docs and general

> folk

> > are ignoring the real issues. Why are we all happy to keep

> putzing

> > around with herbs and vitamins when they don't have a chance

> against

> > the organisms we're really dealing with?

> >

> > Alternative medicine companies are making a fortune off of

us,

> and

> > mainstream medicine is happy to ignore us, because actually

> dealing

> > with and treating our problem is going to cost billions of

> dollars.

> >

> > We have to stop messing around and start demanding that

> mainstream

> > medicine take us seriously. That means back to the basics.

Plain

> old

> > lab tests and cultures. Start looking at the everyday toxic

bugs,

> > not exotic " stealth " bugs.

> >

> > I have a vision that I'd like to implement. To create a non

> profit

> > organization that hires legitimate researchers to culture

> organisms

> > from the chronically ill and publish the results. We can also

> test

> > the bugs' sensitivities, so they can be treated effectively.

When

> > people finally see those results for what they are, how many

of

> us

> > are infected with " normal " bugs, they'll no longer be able to

> ignore

> > us. When the problem is finally recognized for how big it

really

> is,

> > they'll have no choice but to start focusing on better

treatments.

> >

> > penny

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb.

I agree that we can do a much better job of taking care of our

environment and food supply, but China is polluting and degrading its

environment at a level that we would be outraged by. Malnutrition is

pretty common in Asia too.

Tom

>

> I have worked with several very well educated people that grew up

> in Asia. One Chinese guy, a PHD in physics, has a brother who

> practices Chinese medicine atill in Asia.

> His global opinion is that in the Western world, the immune system

> has been weakened over time by our abuse of the enviroment ( & what

> we've done to food), and that those factors have given the pathogens

> the upper hand.

[Guest guest]

Hi Penny,

Did you know the CDC estimates that 1 in 17 people in the USA have a latent TB

infection? It seems that TB is much more of a problems in people with immune

issues such as those with AIDS, malnutrition, etc. In Western Prices book

'Nutrition & Physical Degeneration' he writes that the native American Indians

who lived a native lisetyle (hunter-gatherer diet, etc.) were basically immune

to TB, and as soon as they started eating like westerners they started dying of

TB.

Blake

Re: Model for CFS primary factors.

Blake, I'm sorry but first show me how you can kill TB without

mainstream medicine and I might get interested. This is the kind of

thing we're dealing with here. Our bugs are just slower to kill than

TB, but just as damaging in the long run.

Inflammation is designed to kill the infection. But it can kill us

too. For example, an inflammatory response to an invader commonly

results in encephalitis. It can also result in cancer. You can try

to figure out what caused the inflammation that caused the cancer if

you want, but in the meantime the cancer will kill you. So you've

got to deal with the stopping the most deadly thing first.

Of course, fundamentally, we have to stop the source of the

inflammation (infection), but we also have to calm the inflammation

down, so that we can access the source. It's a catch 22.

It's like an aids patient with pneumonia. If you don't treat the

pneumonia, he's going to die, aids or no aids. When inflammation is

raging, it blocks us from the source of the problem.

Infection produces toxins and inflammation. Both designed to kill

bacteria. But unfortunately, both can kill us too or make us very

sick. Of course we need to support the immune system however we can,

eg. blood thinning, nutritional replenishment, etc. but once you're

as infected as we are, serious measures are called for.

It's the lack of serious measures and widespread ignorance that are

keeping us sick. Ignorance in the sense that docs and general folk

are ignoring the real issues. Why are we all happy to keep putzing

around with herbs and vitamins when they don't have a chance against

the organisms we're really dealing with?

Alternative medicine companies are making a fortune off of us, and

mainstream medicine is happy to ignore us, because actually dealing

with and treating our problem is going to cost billions of dollars.

We have to stop messing around and start demanding that mainstream

medicine take us seriously. That means back to the basics. Plain old

lab tests and cultures. Start looking at the everyday toxic bugs,

not exotic " stealth " bugs.

I have a vision that I'd like to implement. To create a non profit

organization that hires legitimate researchers to culture organisms

from the chronically ill and publish the results. We can also test

the bugs' sensitivities, so they can be treated effectively. When

people finally see those results for what they are, how many of us

are infected with " normal " bugs, they'll no longer be able to ignore

us. When the problem is finally recognized for how big it really is,

they'll have no choice but to start focusing on better treatments.

penny

[Guest guest]

this figure came from the following link:

http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic618.htm

Re: Model for CFS primary factors.

>

>

> Blake, I'm sorry but first show me how you can kill TB without

> mainstream medicine and I might get interested. This is the kind

of

> thing we're dealing with here. Our bugs are just slower to kill

than

> TB, but just as damaging in the long run.

>

> Inflammation is designed to kill the infection. But it can kill

us

> too. For example, an inflammatory response to an invader commonly

> results in encephalitis. It can also result in cancer. You can

try

> to figure out what caused the inflammation that caused the cancer

if

> you want, but in the meantime the cancer will kill you. So you've

> got to deal with the stopping the most deadly thing first.

>

> Of course, fundamentally, we have to stop the source of the

> inflammation (infection), but we also have to calm the

inflammation

> down, so that we can access the source. It's a catch 22.

>

> It's like an aids patient with pneumonia. If you don't treat the

> pneumonia, he's going to die, aids or no aids. When inflammation

is

> raging, it blocks us from the source of the problem.

>

> Infection produces toxins and inflammation. Both designed to kill

> bacteria. But unfortunately, both can kill us too or make us very

> sick. Of course we need to support the immune system however we

can,

> eg. blood thinning, nutritional replenishment, etc. but once

you're

> as infected as we are, serious measures are called for.

>

> It's the lack of serious measures and widespread ignorance that

are

> keeping us sick. Ignorance in the sense that docs and general

folk

> are ignoring the real issues. Why are we all happy to keep

putzing

> around with herbs and vitamins when they don't have a chance

against

> the organisms we're really dealing with?

>

> Alternative medicine companies are making a fortune off of us,

and

> mainstream medicine is happy to ignore us, because actually

dealing

> with and treating our problem is going to cost billions of

dollars.

>

> We have to stop messing around and start demanding that

mainstream

> medicine take us seriously. That means back to the basics. Plain

old

> lab tests and cultures. Start looking at the everyday toxic bugs,

> not exotic " stealth " bugs.

>

> I have a vision that I'd like to implement. To create a non

profit

> organization that hires legitimate researchers to culture

organisms

> from the chronically ill and publish the results. We can also

test

> the bugs' sensitivities, so they can be treated effectively. When

> people finally see those results for what they are, how many of

us

> are infected with " normal " bugs, they'll no longer be able to

ignore

> us. When the problem is finally recognized for how big it really

is,

> they'll have no choice but to start focusing on better treatments.

>

> penny

>

>

>

>