Re: Difference between hashimoto's thyroid and hypothyroidism?

[Guest guest]

Hi, Tate.

Hashimoto's thyroiditis is the most common type of hypothyroidism in

the developed countries, where iodine deficiency is not common.

Worldwide, iodine deficiency is the most common cause of

hypothyroidism. Iodine deficiency occurs because iodine is one of the

three minerals that people need, but plants don't (the other two are

chromium and selenium). Plants do pick up these minerals if they are

in the soil on which they are grown. But people who live in regions

where iodine happens to be low in the soil can grow perfectly healthy

food crops and eat them, but not receive enough iodine. In the U.S.,

iodine has been added to table salt for many years, and this

eliminated most iodine deficiency. Some concern has been expressed

that iodine deficiency will become more common in the U.S., because

many people have gone on low-salt diets and many people eat quite a

bit of their food from fast food outlets that may use noniodized salt

in order to lower their costs.

If you want to check your iodine status, you can get a bottle of

tincture of iodine and make a spot on your arm with it about the size

of a quarter. Look at it 24 hours later. If it's gone, you are short

of iodine. If it's still there, you have sufficient iodine.

There is no general agreement on the cause or causes of Hashimoto's

thyroiditis. In CFS, I have proposed (in my AACFS poster paper in

Oct. 2004) that it is caused by glutathione depletion in the thyroid

gland. Normally, the thyroid gland generates hydrogen peroxide to use

in the synthesis of thyroid hormones, the final step of which occurs

outside the cells. The thyroid cells protect themselves from the

hydrogen peroxide that diffuses back into the cells by generating

glutathione, which serves as an antioxidant. When glutathione becomes

depleted in the thyroid gland because of bodywide depletion of

cysteine, the hydrogen peroxide attacks molecules within the cells.

The immune system responds to clean up these damaged molecules and in

the process, it generates antibodies to thyroid molecules. It is

therefore viewed as an autoimmune disease, but in CFS, at least, I

think it is not really the fault of the immune system. It is just

doing its job of cleanup. I cited literature support for this

hypothesis in my paper.

Recent reports from two or three people on this list suggest that when

glutathione is built back up, the thyroid begins to come back to

normal operation. I think this supports my hypothesis.

Rich

>

> Hi,

>

> I'm wanting to know the difference between the two, and if

treatments

> for them differ.

>

> thanks,

> Tate

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tate and Rich-

Rich, great summary. I knew that Hashimotos wasn't a slam dunk autoimmune

disorder but I never understood the hydroperox part of it. Thanks for the

explanation. You have this great way of taking the most complicated stuff and

explaining it in clear and simple language that even miss brain fog here can

understand..lol... I am all for keep it simple these days..lol..hmmm..wonder if

that is CFIDS or age...lol....

Tate-I have clear cut Hashimotos. Running my antibodies, there is no doubt.

Years ago before I got really sick, my antibodies weren't elevated therefore we

suspected plain ole Hypothyroidism. Then when the antibodies elevated, we knew

is was Hashis.

Due to the nature of my chemical poisioning, my hormones are the obsession of

my life. As with my primary sex hormones and androgens, my thyroid medication

is made by a compound pharmacy and is a sustained release combo of T4 and T3

specific to what my body needs. Years ago when first dx'd, I went the usual

route of the Synthroid, Thyrolar, Cytomel, Armour, etc (hello osteoporosis) and

felt like crap. I KNEW they were not right for my body. I am so gratefult that

the world of compound pharmacies was presented to me.

Before actually confirming Hashis, I tried the 's protocol because it is

believed that some people with regular Hypothyroidism can " jolt " a sluggish

thyroid " back to life " with his up and down ladder protocol of straight

compounded sustained release T3. I have a friend that did three rounds of the

protocol and has been fine ever since. But of course when it comes to moi,

nothing's that easy..lol..

Anyway, I have done a ton of reading on this issue and years ago, put together

some misc. notes from a variety of resources. Much of it came from reading stuff

from Broda , 's Syndrome website, Dr Lowe's website, conversations

with this group (I think some is from Rich and Napier, who was active

with this group a few years ago) and other groups, etc.

Some great general info:

http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com

http://drlowe.com

http://www.brodabarnes.org (his bookstore has some great books, including his

own)

I am not an expert on this subject by any means and welcome any corrections

and/or feedback to any info here, particularly if it is incorrect or perhaps now

out of date.

Kathy

NOTES FROM VARIOUS SOURCES STARTS HERE:

The thyroid system regulates body’s metabolic rate. The purpose of the

thyroid system is to maintain a normal body temperature.

T4 is the raw material to make active T3. Active T3 is what the body needs.

TSH and T4 shows thyroid hormone in blood, not how effectively T3 is affecting

the cells. T3 conversion happens in the tissues of the body. No test can test

what’s happening in the tissues and cells of the body. WTS is essentially a

stress and starvation mechanism gone amuck. Production of thyroid hormone is

often normal; the processing of that hormone in the tissue can get bogged down.

WTS is a low thyroid problem, happening “downstream” from the blood stream,

therefore undiagnosable with thyroid tests. This downstream part of the thyroid

system is responsible for processing or converting T4 into active T3. Almost

all the active T3 in the body is produced from T4 after T4 leaves the blood

stream.

Under physical, mental or emotional stress the body slows down the metabolism

by decreasing the amount of T4 that is converted to active T3 while increasing

the amount that is converted into the inactive by-product called Reverse T3.

This is done to conserve energy. When stressed or starved, the T4 to T3

conversion decreases and the cells of the body slow down so the body temperature

drops. When the temperature drops, many of the body’s enzymes do not function

as well. When the stress is over, the metabolism is supposed to speed back up

to normal. This does not happen correctly in thyroid disorders.

RT3 can build so high that it can start hogging the enzyme that converts T4 to

T3. This enzyme is called 5’-Deiodinase.

Solution: Clearing out the RT3 so the tissues can reset the system and

function normally on its own again. Bring down the level of RT3 to also

decrease T4. No T4 = no active T3 so the body has to start making it’s own

again.

Summary: Administering direct pure T3 reduces TSH because the body sees it

has enough thyroid hormone. So the message is not sent by the TSH to make T4,

which is then converted to RT3 or T3. Cannot do T3 therapy long term as it will

weaken long term T4 production.

Period of stress induces T4 conversion into the biologically inert

stereoisomer called Reverse T3. RT3 is a mirror image of active T3 and fits

well into T3 cell-membrane receptor sites upside down. Once bound to these

receptors, RT3 prevents active T3 from binding, thus preventing thyroid

activation at these receptor sites. Important to note that the symptoms of poor

conversion & /or receptor sites blocked with RT3 can also be similar to symptoms

of adrenal insufficiency from high/low cortisol & /or DHEA.

Hypothyroidism: High TSH and low T4 and T3. Patient’s thyroid gland has

lost its organ reserve capacity to produce adequate levels of T4 and T3. These

patients need to take thyroid replacement continually. However, hypothyroid

patients may also be poor converters of T4 into T3 and neither T4 nor glandular

thyroid replacement will optimize these patients. Combination T4 and T3 is

indicated here.

The body will save energy example: maintenance of skin, our largest organ.

By decreasing energy to maintain = dry skin, dry hair, hair loss, brittle

nails.etc. Poor healing. Don’t need food as much. LUXURY FUNCTIONS SUCH AS

SEX DRIVE ARE THE FIRST TO GO. The more important functions, hearing, heart

breathing are not a greatly affected by body temperature.

Progesterone and pregnenolone activate thyroid function

Estrogen opposes thyroid function

Conventional treatments:

T3/T4 combos: Immediate release T3. Also contain T4, which is what we’re

trying to reduce to deplete the RT3 levels.

T4: Symptoms improve but come back, typically after 2-3 months. Dr.

increases dose. Feel better for a while then worse. Eventually, T4 may be

increased and patient gets worse right off the bat.

Avoid Goitrogens: broccoli cauliflower cabbage turnips mustards greens kale

spinach brussel sprouts kohlrabi rutabagas horseradish radish and white mustard

Consume: molasses, egg yolks, parsley, apricots, dates, prunes, fish,

chicken, raw milk, cheeses

Temperature:

Shake down thermometer to 96.0. Take temperature for 7 minutes

Nothing hot or cold at least 15 minutes prior

Do pulse and temperature 3, 6 & 9 hours after waking

Add and divide by 3 to get average daily temperature

Temperature:

Upon wakening, put in armpit for 10 minutes

97.8 – 98.2 is normal

Protocol Notes:

One-day compensator: Rise first day

Falls second day of same dose

Will reach 98.6 more easily by raising

7.5 ug daily

Wean down dose every two days

Features of One day: Reach and maintain 98.6 at certain dose

Temp relapse as dose is lowered

On next cycle, once compensation achieved, use patients lowered temperature as

a guide to increase the dose to the next 7.5 ug increment

At next highest increment, hold the does for five-seven days or longer on

subsequent cycles before weaning down.

If temp relapses, raise the dose

37.5 and higher causes T4 suppression and greater risk of side effects

From Internet Web group:

There is no Phase I involved, only Phase II. But most of the thyroid hormones

is actually disassembled and recycled. It's kind of complicated, but here's a

summary (Based on N. V. Bhagavan, Medical Biochemistry, Fourth Edition, 2002, p.

777):

As you probably know, there are two active thyroid hormones, T4 and T3, with T3

being much more active than T4. The metabolism of T4 involves about 20% of it

being directly processed by glucuronidation or sulfonation in the liver, and

going into the bile, or by deamination and decarboxylation to produce inactive

thyroacetic acid derivatives, and I don't know what happens to them. Another

30% is deiodinated to produce T3, and the remaining 50% is deiodinated to

produce rT3, which is inactive, and is completely deiodinated to produce

tyrosine, which can be recycled for various uses, and iodide.

Of the T3, about 20% is directly processed by glucuronidation or sulfonation and

goes out in the bile, or by deamination and decarboxylation to inactive

thyroacetic acid derivatives, whose fate I don't know. The other 80% is

completely deiodinated to form tyrosine, which is recycled, and iodide.

The iodide is partly reabsorbed by the thyroid gland to be used to make more T4

and T3, and the rest goes to the urine via the kidneys.

Part of the conjugated T4 and T3 that goes out in the bile is hydrolyzed

(deconjugated) and recycled to the liver via the enterohepatic circulation, and

is put back into the blood stream to be used again. The rest goes to the

stools.

The average actual daily intake of iodine is about 500 micrograms. By far, most

of the iodine that is lost from the body goes out in the urine (about 488

micrograms per day). About 12 micrograms per day goes out in the stools. The

RDA for iodine has been set at 150 micrograms per day.

NOTES FROM VARIOUS SOURCES ENDS HERE

,konynen " <richvank@...>

Sun Mar 5, 2006 3:16 am

Hi, Tate.

Hashimoto's thyroiditis is the most common type of hypothyroidism in the

developed countries, where iodine deficiency is not common. Worldwide, iodine

deficiency is the most common cause of hypothyroidism. Iodine deficiency occurs

because iodine is one of the three minerals that people need, but plants don't

(the other two are chromium and selenium). Plants do pick up these minerals if

they are in the soil on which they are grown. But people who live in regions

where iodine happens to be low in the soil can grow perfectly healthy food crops

and eat them, but not receive enough iodine. In the U.S., iodine has been added

to table salt for many years, and this

eliminated most iodine deficiency. Some concern has been expressed that iodine

deficiency will become more common in the U.S., because many people have gone on

low-salt diets and many people eat quite a bit of their food from fast food

outlets that may use noniodized salt in order to lower their costs.

If you want to check your iodine status, you can get a bottle of tincture of

iodine and make a spot on your arm with it about the size of a quarter. Look at

it 24 hours later. If it's gone, you are short of iodine. If it's still there,

you have sufficient iodine.

There is no general agreement on the cause or causes of Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

In CFS, I have proposed (in my AACFS poster paper in Oct. 2004) that it is

caused by glutathione depletion in the thyroid gland. Normally, the thyroid

gland generates hydrogen peroxide to use in the synthesis of thyroid hormones,

the final step of which occurs outside the cells. The thyroid cells protect

themselves from the hydrogen peroxide that diffuses back into the cells by

generating glutathione, which serves as an antioxidant. When glutathione

becomes depleted in the thyroid gland because of bodywide depletion of cysteine,

the hydrogen peroxide attacks molecules within the cells. The immune system

responds to clean up these damaged molecules and in

the process, it generates antibodies to thyroid molecules. It is therefore

viewed as an autoimmune disease, but in CFS, at least, I think it is not really

the fault of the immune system. It is just doing its job of cleanup. I cited

literature support for this

hypothesis in my paper.

Recent reports from two or three people on this list suggest that when

glutathione is built back up, the thyroid begins to come back to normal

operation. I think this supports my hypothesis.

Rich

>

> Hi,

I'm wanting to know the difference between the two, and if treatments for them

differ.

> thanks,

> Tate

>

---------------------------------

Relax. virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

This is a wealth of great information, but my head is spinning (more

than usual). Did you figure out what exactly you needed on your own

(and from all the info. you posted?) or did you have a health

professional assiting you? I imagine using a compouding pharmacy you

would have to know exactly what to compound.

I was Dx many years ago with the same Hashi/Hypo with an aspirated

cold nodule. Practially every doctor I've seen has a different take on

TSH panels and how to treat and I don't want to fool around with

hormones myself, but I am so frustrated as to what to take and at what

level. Presently, I'm taking 45 mg. Armour and feel no Thyroid issues

in the fore (in my body,) so guess I will continue until ... I see if

raising my glutathione levels, as many have suggested here, might make

a difference and actually eliminate the need for any Thyroid medication.

Ballady

[Guest guest]

Hi Ballady-

I know. It's a lot of info and very overhwleming. I have had years with this

and it still is not all lodged in my brian..lol..

I live in a very regulated state in the US where finding open minded docs has

been difficult, particularly an endocrinologist. As a matter of fact, I really

got into it one time with an endocrin who said that there is no such thing as a

sustained release T3, meanwhile I was sitting in front of him with a bottle in

my hand. It was at that visit that I said no more, I am going to find some open

minded docs and I that's exactly what I did.

I spent so much energy educating and arming myself with heavy scientific

documentation and was pretty effective at talking various docs into trying stuff

with me. But the problem with this is that I can only take it so far then I

really need their medical direction, if you know what I mean. I am not the doc

sorta thing. Noone actually hit the nail on the head until the last two. The

first of the two just so happens to be a fairly open minded endocrinologist who

is located downstate and has close ties with Dr Serafina Corsello...I laugh at

that cause if anyone will open a closed mind, it is her! Anyway, he finally

started me on a SR compound combo specific to my results and how I felt. (He

has his own lab, doesn't use outside labs) However, one thing that he seemed

stuck on was keeping the dosage specific to a standard T4/T3 4:1 ratio,

regardless of how I felt. I knew I was getting way to much T3 by the way I felt

and was substantiated by my labs. And he just would not

budge on this issue.

So, I left him and asked my open minded chelation doc if he was willing to

help me and he is. He is slowly working me up on dosage, playing with the ratio

and I can feel that we are going in the right direction. I love the SR, no more

of those huge spikes and dips I use to have with the immediate release.

The best thing that came out of this was finding the compound pharmacy who

makes this for me. Dr Corsello has been working with them for years so they are

pretty savvy on a lot of things. Until recently, many of the usual big guys and

some of the smaller that I spoke with and have done business with do not

compound a SR combo. There is great controversy about the SR component and if

it truly binds with the T4. Wellness is now offering it but they make it with

different SR agent than the pharmacy I am using now. Plus, the pharmacy I am

using now is VERY price competitive compared that what I have paid for non SR

thyroid (and other hormones) in the past...I'm talking HALF the cost. My

current doc relys heavily on them for guidance and I like that cause they are

really good in the thyroid area.

I am doing glut pushes on chelation day. We just increased it to 600 mg on I

and am also supplementing with oral as well. As with you, I will be very

interested to see if I too have any thyroid changes. Of course that is

depending on what the stupid metals are doing to my poor thyroid....lol..it's

always something.

Kathy

" ballady4 " <ballady4@...>

Sun Mar 5, 2006 9:51 am

Kathy,

This is a wealth of great information, but my head is spinning (more than

usual). Did you figure out what exactly you needed on your own (and from all the

info. you posted?) or did you have a health professional assiting you? I imagine

using a compouding pharmacy you would have to know exactly what to compound.

I was Dx many years ago with the same Hashi/Hypo with an aspirated cold nodule.

Practially every doctor I've seen has a different take on TSH panels and how to

treat and I don't want to fool around with hormones myself, but I am so

frustrated as to what to take and at what level. Presently, I'm taking 45 mg.

Armour and feel no Thyroid issues in the fore (in my body,) so guess I will

continue until ... I see if raising my glutathione levels, as many have

suggested here, might make a difference and actually eliminate the need for any

Thyroid medication.

Ballady

---------------------------------

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

Thanks everybody. Here's my problem. The Dr. I'm seeing now has been

understandably reluctant to diagnose cfs as long as my TSH is

elevated. But I have tried taking synthetic hormone several times

and it screws me to hell every time. I've even cut my pills down to

6mcg from 100mcg, and I still can only take a 6mcg. every two weeks,

approx. I told him this, and he went ahead and prescribed 150mcg

tablets. Great.

So he prescribed armour, and I'm reluctant to even fill it because

of the waste of money, and more importantly, the synthetic made me

not able to sleep whatsoever... I can't afford this anymore, since

I'm only able to sleep for a few hours in the evening, and then

hopefully go to sleep at dawn, so I can't tolerate another session

of finding out what dosage I can(t) take.

Did switching to armour help anybody? Is there anything published

about how cfs affects the thyroid, and isn't caused by thyroid

(hypothyroidism)? I'm thinking about taking the definitions of both

diseases to him, and explaining how they differ, as in how the

fatigue in cfs is related to exertion, and how hypothyroidism

seemingly has a steady fatigued state, how hypo states weakness, and

I'm not weak whatsoever, if I didn't feel like crap, I would be

strong as anything, no weight gain, etc. and how my symptoms fit in

exactly with cfs, but I don't know how to do it without him blowing

me off. He already seems tired of me telling him what I think, wtf

do I do?

HELP!

thanks.

> Kathy,

>

> This is a wealth of great information, but my head is spinning

(more

> than usual). Did you figure out what exactly you needed on your own

> (and from all the info. you posted?) or did you have a health

> professional assiting you? I imagine using a compouding pharmacy

you

> would have to know exactly what to compound.

>

> I was Dx many years ago with the same Hashi/Hypo with an aspirated

> cold nodule. Practially every doctor I've seen has a different

take on

> TSH panels and how to treat and I don't want to fool around with

> hormones myself, but I am so frustrated as to what to take and at

what

> level. Presently, I'm taking 45 mg. Armour and feel no Thyroid

issues

> in the fore (in my body,) so guess I will continue until ... I see

if

> raising my glutathione levels, as many have suggested here, might

make

> a difference and actually eliminate the need for any Thyroid

medication.

>

> Ballady

>

[Guest guest]

On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:28 PM, mascis_j wrote:

> Did switching to armour help anybody?

Synthetic wouldn't have helped me at all. Armour does seem to be the

thyroid of choice for CFS patients (though, of course, there are

plenty of people on other regimes as well) due to its T4/T3 balance.

> Is there anything published about how cfs affects the thyroid, and

> isn't caused by thyroid

> (hypothyroidism)?

All over the place.

In a nutshell, CFS messes up our metabolism in all kinds of kinky

ways. Some of those ways affect the pituitary (which can return false

TSH readings as a result); the adrenals (which may not make enough of

the adrenal co-factors required to metabolize T4 into T3), and

glutathione production (which Rich is much better qualified to hold

forth on than I am).

Many of us make plenty of T4, but for some reason can't convert it to

T3. The symptoms you describe are pretty classic for someone who's

got too much T4 running in their system; taking more is only likely

to make it worse. The Armour, on the other hand, has T3 (the active

form of thyroid that your body actually uses), so you're more likely

to get some real benefits without cranking your T4 up further.

The Canadian Case Definition is one source for this stuff. PubMed is,

of course, the classic source. I'm sure there are lots of people here

who might help, too.

> I'm thinking about taking the definitions of both

> diseases to him, and explaining how they differ, as in how the

> fatigue in cfs is related to exertion, and how hypothyroidism

> seemingly has a steady fatigued state, how hypo states weakness, and

> I'm not weak whatsoever, if I didn't feel like crap, I would be

> strong as anything, no weight gain, etc. and how my symptoms fit in

> exactly with cfs, but I don't know how to do it without him blowing

> me off. He already seems tired of me telling him what I think, wtf

> do I do?

1. Find a doctor who actually believes CFS exists, and knows a thing

or two about it.

2. Download the Canadian Case Definition (readily available online),

put it in a binder, take it to your doctor, and insist that s/he read

it before trying to figure out what's wrong with you. (There's good

info on thyroid in here.)

3. Try the Armour. Just try it. If it wipes you out further, don't

panic: just give a holler to this list, and I'll tell you about the

DHEA thing, which may help.

4. If you've got an FFC near you, consider getting yourself there.

Their doctors seem to be fairly well-informed on the role of thyroid

in managing CFS.

Sara

[Guest guest]

>

> > Did switching to armour help anybody?

>

> Synthetic wouldn't have helped me at all. Armour does seem to be

the

> thyroid of choice for CFS patients (though, of course, there are

> plenty of people on other regimes as well) due to its T4/T3

balance.

>

> > Is there anything published about how cfs affects the thyroid,

and

> > isn't caused by thyroid

> > (hypothyroidism)?

>

> All over the place.

>

> In a nutshell, CFS messes up our metabolism in all kinds of kinky

> ways. Some of those ways affect the pituitary (which can return

false

> TSH readings as a result); the adrenals (which may not make enough

of

> the adrenal co-factors required to metabolize T4 into T3), and

> glutathione production (which Rich is much better qualified to

hold

> forth on than I am).

>

> Many of us make plenty of T4, but for some reason can't convert it

to

> T3. The symptoms you describe are pretty classic for someone

who's

> got too much T4 running in their system; taking more is only

likely

> to make it worse. The Armour, on the other hand, has T3 (the

active

> form of thyroid that your body actually uses), so you're more

likely

> to get some real benefits without cranking your T4 up further.

>

> The Canadian Case Definition is one source for this stuff. PubMed

is,

> of course, the classic source. I'm sure there are lots of people

here

> who might help, too.

>

> > I'm thinking about taking the definitions of both

> > diseases to him, and explaining how they differ, as in how the

> > fatigue in cfs is related to exertion, and how hypothyroidism

> > seemingly has a steady fatigued state, how hypo states weakness,

and

> > I'm not weak whatsoever, if I didn't feel like crap, I would be

> > strong as anything, no weight gain, etc. and how my symptoms fit

in

> > exactly with cfs, but I don't know how to do it without him

blowing

> > me off. He already seems tired of me telling him what I think,

wtf

> > do I do?

>

> 1. Find a doctor who actually believes CFS exists, and knows a

thing

> or two about it.

>

> 2. Download the Canadian Case Definition (readily available

online),

> put it in a binder, take it to your doctor, and insist that s/he

read

> it before trying to figure out what's wrong with you. (There's

good

> info on thyroid in here.)

>

> 3. Try the Armour. Just try it. If it wipes you out further,

don't

> panic: just give a holler to this list, and I'll tell you about

the

> DHEA thing, which may help.

>

> 4. If you've got an FFC near you, consider getting yourself

there.

> Their doctors seem to be fairly well-informed on the role of

thyroid

> in managing CFS.

>

> Sara

>

[Guest guest]

>

> > Did switching to armour help anybody?

>

> Synthetic wouldn't have helped me at all. Armour does seem to be

the

> thyroid of choice for CFS patients (though, of course, there are

> plenty of people on other regimes as well) due to its T4/T3

balance.

>

> > Is there anything published about how cfs affects the thyroid,

and

> > isn't caused by thyroid

> > (hypothyroidism)?

>

> All over the place.

>

> In a nutshell, CFS messes up our metabolism in all kinds of kinky

> ways. Some of those ways affect the pituitary (which can return

false

> TSH readings as a result); the adrenals (which may not make enough

of

> the adrenal co-factors required to metabolize T4 into T3), and

> glutathione production (which Rich is much better qualified to

hold

> forth on than I am).

>

> Many of us make plenty of T4, but for some reason can't convert it

to

> T3. The symptoms you describe are pretty classic for someone

who's

> got too much T4 running in their system; taking more is only

likely

> to make it worse. The Armour, on the other hand, has T3 (the

active

> form of thyroid that your body actually uses), so you're more

likely

> to get some real benefits without cranking your T4 up further.

>

> The Canadian Case Definition is one source for this stuff. PubMed

is,

> of course, the classic source. I'm sure there are lots of people

here

> who might help, too.

>

> > I'm thinking about taking the definitions of both

> > diseases to him, and explaining how they differ, as in how the

> > fatigue in cfs is related to exertion, and how hypothyroidism

> > seemingly has a steady fatigued state, how hypo states weakness,

and

> > I'm not weak whatsoever, if I didn't feel like crap, I would be

> > strong as anything, no weight gain, etc. and how my symptoms fit

in

> > exactly with cfs, but I don't know how to do it without him

blowing

> > me off. He already seems tired of me telling him what I think,

wtf

> > do I do?

>

> 1. Find a doctor who actually believes CFS exists, and knows a

thing

> or two about it.

>

> 2. Download the Canadian Case Definition (readily available

online),

> put it in a binder, take it to your doctor, and insist that s/he

read

> it before trying to figure out what's wrong with you. (There's

good

> info on thyroid in here.)

>

> 3. Try the Armour. Just try it. If it wipes you out further,

don't

> panic: just give a holler to this list, and I'll tell you about

the

> DHEA thing, which may help.

>

> 4. If you've got an FFC near you, consider getting yourself

there.

> Their doctors seem to be fairly well-informed on the role of

thyroid

> in managing CFS.

>

> Sara

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Thanks everybody. Here's my problem. The Dr. I'm seeing now has been

> understandably reluctant to diagnose cfs as long as my TSH is

> elevated. But I have tried taking synthetic hormone several times

> and it screws me to hell every time.

>

> Did switching to armour help anybody?

>

This was the case for me as well - with synthetics. Switching to

Armour did help with what I considered to be my more Thyroid type

symptoms: cold all the time, slight hand tremors . . . That was 12

years ago. I still take a very small dose daily but I am also looking

into the glautathione question, as you are.

Ballady