Re: EEG Neurofeedback for ?

February 15, 2006

I have a Brainmaster v 2.0 neurfeedback machine.

See A Symphony in the Brain and also

_http://www.eegspectrum.com/Applications/Epilepsy/_

(http://www.eegspectrum.com/Applications/Epilepsy/)

One of the most successful practitioners that I know is Geo. vonHilscheimer,

PhD _http://www.drbiofeedback.com/_ (http://www.drbiofeedback.com/) He's

been at it about about 40 years and is experienced in Orthomolecular medicine.

THere are also several neurofeedback lists

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

February 15, 2006

Do you use it? I don't have the discipline for such a thing.

>

> I have a Brainmaster v 2.0 neurfeedback machine.

>

> See A Symphony in the Brain and also

> _http://www.eegspectrum.com/Applications/Epilepsy/_

(http://www.eegspectrum.com/Applications/Epilepsy/)

>

> One of the most successful practitioners that I know is Geo.

vonHilscheimer,

> PhD _http://www.drbiofeedback.com/_ (http://www.drbiofeedback.com/)

He's

> been at it about about 40 years and is experienced in Orthomolecular

medicine.

>

> THere are also several neurofeedback lists

>

> mjh

> " The Basil Book "

> http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

>

February 16, 2006

Hi, Jill.

" jill1313 " <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

>

> , it just occurred to me that, whatever the *cause* of your

> problem, and that asymmetrical hyperperfusion seems like a marker of

> it, you could try EEG neurofeedback if you're willing. YOur doc can

> prescribe it and you can do it at home on a laptop. I say this because

> I've seen kids with epilepsy taken off their meds and stop having

> multiple seizures, doing EEG neurofeedback.

>

> It allows you to essentially " control " the seizure.

>

***I've explored neurofeedback. It's not was it's hyped up to be. My brother

did it for his ADD and it helped him atler the patterns on the computer for a

few weeks. After therapy, symptoms were they again full tilt. It is not

effective with people with seizure disorders. That's a non-sense sales pitch if

that's what you read.

***It is obvious to me than in most cases in which this is offered to cases

where there any moderate to severe neuro problems, it as act of quackery to

recommend it. It's another case where lots of PWCs have tried it over the years

and nada.

***Not really. It did not work towards resovling their ME/CFS, they're still

sick and not one bit closer to being well from the day before they ever heard of

such a therapy.

***It's mostly a racket pulling the wool over the eyes of an unsuspecting

public, IMO.

I'm also thinking, if there's not enough perfusion in part, maybe the

> nerves are in pain sort of like small fiber neuropathy--they now know

> that RSD, fibro and other pain syndromes, the nerves are actually

> somewhat demyleniated (sorry for the typos I " m typing fast)...well,

> I'm thinking, if nerves don't get ENUF stimulation they actually for

> whatever reasons, maybe the chemicals generated, maybe hypoxia, may

> manifest as pain.

***I think this has a good possibility of be the case.

SO there are some unscientific speculations but once you're done with

the chelation it might be worth investing a few thousand in a really

good neurofeedback system for your laptop.

***I said my peace on this quack box, but the chelation and glutathione

repletion process may cinch the deal ultimately. It's still early in this

process, especially given the fact that I've been sick for decades now.

My former hyperbaric doc

> did that herself for her labile blood pressure and she helped lots of

> others with it. It really works. It just takes discipline (daily

> sessions).

***No it doesn't. Not for anything other that very minor issues from my

research on the topic. It's a joke,

IMO, for anything condition that is the slightest bit on the serious side. It

may be a good placebo effect method! I'll give it that.

February 16, 2006

Hi, mjh.

foxhillers@... wrote:

>

> I have a Brainmaster v 2.0 neurfeedback machine.

>

> See A Symphony in the Brain and also

> _http://www.eegspectrum.com/Applications/Epilepsy/_

(http://www.eegspectrum.com/Applications/Epilepsy/)

>

> One of the most successful practitioners that I know is Geo. vonHilscheimer,

> PhD _http://www.drbiofeedback.com/_ (http://www.drbiofeedback.com/) He's

> been at it about about 40 years and is experienced in Orthomolecular

medicine.

>

> THere are also several neurofeedback lists

>

> mjh

> " The Basil Book "

> http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

***See my post to Jill1313 on the topic. Bottom line, neurofeedback is a joke,

pure quackery as it's being promoted and recommended for anything leaning toward

serious neurological

seizures and issues. As a placebo effect method, I must say it may carry the

day!...For VERY minor problems...

February 16, 2006

, I suggest you give it another chance. You can't just do

neurofeedback for a few weeks. You have to keep doing it. That's why

you need to get trained and then get a system at home for your

computer or laptop and do it daily at home. Your brother altered his

brain patterns for a few weeks, of course symptoms came back when he

stopped, and the brain doesn't get used to a shift that quickly, it

will go back to setpoint, of course.

It is indeed effective with seizure disorders. I know this because I

met the patients. The first patient I met was about 10 or 11 years

ago, in California, because I knew the folks who pioneered the first

company, and I met the parents of a kid with Tourette's and other

problems. The *only* thing that would control his tics was

neurofeedback and he was so compliant that they bought him what then

cost $16,000 for the entire home setup and he voluntarily did it every

day because it worked whereas medication did not work as effectively

and had side effects. I know this because I went to their house and

talked to them for a few hours!

Later it had evolved and become so much more reasonably priced that

for as little as a few thousand or less you could get a home system.

My hyperbaric doctor began by treaeting brain trauma and seizure

disorders, she is a Stanford/Harvard educated M.D. who ran an

emergency room with 100 plus employees for many years before she left

the rat race. I know it works because I know about the patients and

met some of them, who were able to reduce or go off their epilepsy

medications AND reduce seizure activity markedly. I know because we

talked about the neurologists' reaction, as it was very threatening to

traditional neurologists and it angered them.

It does take discipline and hard work, though.

It is important to be strong willed and strong minded, which you

obviously are, as that's what gets us through. And I'm not saying this

would work for your pain. But please don't throw the baby out with the

bathwater because this therapy is not a quack therapy, a joke, or a

scam. This is a good therapy. You need a good practitioner to help you

set the correct parameters for shifting your brain waves. Seizure

activity, if I recall, usually involves excess theta.

February 17, 2006

" jill1313 " <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

>

> , I suggest you give it another chance. You can't just do

> neurofeedback for a few weeks. You have to keep doing it.

***My brother did it for up to seven months as I recall. He stopped after

mastering the patterns they have you master on the computer for two weeks.

He did what he was supposed to do to the letter. Neurofeedback did fail.

That's why

> you need to get trained and then get a system at home for your

> computer or laptop and do it daily at home. Your brother altered his

> brain patterns for a few weeks, of course symptoms came back when he

> stopped, and the brain doesn't get used to a shift that quickly, it

> will go back to setpoint, of course.

***There are a lot of assumptions your making about neurofeedback ability to do

this and as I clarified seven months was the actual process endured. As you

must know, most treatments across the board for brain/neuropsyhiatric conditions

are in a state of failure.

Neurofeedback is only one of many. Neurofeedback does have application for

computer video games and the like, but that's a horse of a different color.

It is indeed effective with seizure disorders. I know this because I

> met the patients. The first patient I met was about 10 or 11 years

> ago, in California, because I knew the folks who pioneered the first

> company, and I met the parents of a kid with Tourette's and other

> problems. The *only* thing that would control his tics was

> neurofeedback and he was so compliant that they bought him what then

> cost $16,000 for the entire home setup and he voluntarily did it every

> day because it worked whereas medication did not work as effectively

> and had side effects. I know this because I went to their house and

> talked to them for a few hours!

>

***How is his tourettes now? Does he still use the machine? Giving a benefit

of the doubt, how truly common is his story anyway? Do you know how high the

suicide rate is for those with tourettes having gone through all the proposed

therapies since childhood?

Do you know the rates for other neuropsychiatric conditions? It's quite high,

like with CFS and some much higher. Neurofeedback has been around for a long

time and the reason it has not been a hit for these things is it has failed.

Later it had evolved and become so much more reasonably priced that

> for as little as a few thousand or less you could get a home system.

> My hyperbaric doctor began by treaeting brain trauma and seizure

> disorders, she is a Stanford/Harvard educated M.D. who ran an

> emergency room with 100 plus employees for many years before she left

> the rat race. I know it works because I know about the patients and

> met some of them, who were able to reduce or go off their epilepsy

> medications AND reduce seizure activity markedly.

***Did the results sustain? Why do so many psychiatrists and docs, mainstream

and alternative, treating neuropsyc symptoms and conditions not recommend it if

it is so powerful. Again, it has been around for a long time.

What gives?

I know because we

> talked about the neurologists' reaction, as it was very threatening to

> traditional neurologists and it angered them. It does take discipline and

hard work, though.

>

***Do realize how often " vigilance protocols " are quackery? Again,

neurofeedback has been around a long time. Why isn't it a hit by now for

serious brain issues if so?

What gives?

It is important to be strong willed and strong minded, which you

> obviously are, as that's what gets us through. And I'm not saying this

> would work for your pain. But please don't throw the baby out with the

> bathwater because this therapy is not a quack therapy, a joke, or a

> scam. This is a good therapy.

***I've researched it. A formerly popular neurofeedback treatment facility here

in my county said it would significantly improve everything from ADD, OCD to

ahem...CFS. The PWCs I've found who went for it are still sick now ten years

later. It's walking like a duck is what I see.

You need a good practitioner to help you set the correct parameters for shifting

your brain waves. Seizure

> activity, if I recall, usually involves excess theta.

***Oh, let me tell ya, that show was put on for my brother....Not say I don't

appreciate your concern for my clearing up my brain pain, which I do.

February 17, 2006

> He did what he was supposed to do to the letter. Neurofeedback did

fail.

> ***How is his tourettes now? Does he still use the machine?

Obviously I don't know. That was ten years ago on a trip to California

and I well remember the couple's nice house in the Hollywood hills and

spending time there with them, and meeting their son, but there was no

particular reason to follow up.

> ***Did the results sustain? Why do so many psychiatrists and docs,

mainstream and alternative, treating neuropsyc symptoms and conditions

not recommend it if it is so powerful. Again, it has been around for

a long time.

> What gives?

I think what gives is the following: 1) nothing is a panacea 2) this

type of intervention takes tremendous discipline, because you have to

do it regularly, like exercise. In fact it is a kind of exercise, of

the brain. Seizure activity requires a kindling effect. There is no

reason you can't dampen that effect if you learn to talk to your own

brain. However it is not fun to put goop on your head every day, put

on electrodes and sit there for an hour training your brain. Most

people would prefer a pill and that's understandable.

I'm not saying it's a cure-all but because a therapy that is not

pharmaceutical is not widely adopted says more about the

pharmaceutical industry than efficacy. For instance, its widely known

you can ameliorate the effects of a stroke if you put someone in a

hyperbaric chamber immediately, and nobody does it, even when the

victim is in a hospital where there is a chamber. The guy across the

hall from me had a retinal occlusion (i.e. stroke in his retinal

artery) and lost vision in one eye. I gave him the information about

hyperbaric, told him he could use my chamber or go to a professional I

know, and the literature showing how and why this might help him

regain partial vision. He has not followed up on it. And yet you can

imagine how chagrined he is at the loss of one eye, and its 3 steps

across the hall to my place which has a $20,000 chamber free for the

using. He's just not going to do it, I can see.

By the way, I don't see that EEG neurofeedback would help CFS. I'm

just thinking if your brain pain is a kind of seizure, it might. Okay

enough said.

February 17, 2006

I have not read this whole thread, just wanted to put in an opinion,

based on experience. I have a daughter who HAD Tourette's, and is

recovered. Her tics started early, I believe around 3 years old. By

middle school they were debilitating and we put her on medications,

which helped but did not solve. Then in high school we put the whole

family on the Fingold diet (no artificial ingredients, preservatives,

all which are various forms of neurotoxins) to help two other of our

children who have ADHD. We were astonished that our older daughter's

Tourette's simply VANISHED. It was not instant, took several months to

get all of the artificials out of her. Her RLS also mostly abated. We

took her off the medication she had used for years, and the Tourette's

did not return. She was cured. Ironically, the two boys with ADHD were

only partly helped by the diet, but the Tourette's was completely

solved. So we have stayed on Feingold (www.feingold.org

<http://www.feingold.org/> ). It is not a simple diet, you learn that

most of our food is full of toxins, poisons, neurotoxins. Incidentally,

the diet did not help my CFS much, so that is obviously a different

issue.

Therefore, my opinion is that some (or maybe many or even most) cases of

Tourette's are caused by some genetic interaction with neurotoxins that

are placed in ordinary processed foods (the artificial ingredients).

The worst offenders were BHA, BHT, and TBHQ, but there were many others

involved as well. And just using organic foods is not sufficient, you

must learn exactly which brands of food are safe.