RE: Inclusion/IEP/Non compliance

[Guest guest]

,

Sounds great, really execept for the speech part!!! It is giving me some

hope that amanda will have a good year in 5th grade too. So far i have

called the teacher 4x and written one note asking her to call. Well she

finally calls and I am out and the dh didnt know what i wanted to talk to her

about.

I dont know isnt he living in the same house as me???? Well, next Friday is

sorta an open house breaskfast so I guess I will meet and greet the teachers

then. one can only hope for the best I guess.

~ Mom to 11 DS and 7

[Guest guest]

,

Sounds great, really execept for the speech part!!! It is giving me some

hope that amanda will have a good year in 5th grade too. So far i have

called the teacher 4x and written one note asking her to call. Well she

finally calls and I am out and the dh didnt know what i wanted to talk to her

about.

I dont know isnt he living in the same house as me???? Well, next Friday is

sorta an open house breaskfast so I guess I will meet and greet the teachers

then. one can only hope for the best I guess.

~ Mom to 11 DS and 7

[Guest guest]

What you had with teacher and aide wasn't an IEP meeting or a secret

meeting. It was a parent teacher conference, just like any parent could

have with the reg ed teacher. I think the speech therapist should get

over it.

Judi

Inclusion/IEP/Non compliance

Hi all,

Well, this year started out so wonderfully. The teacher is so

entusicatic

about having Maverick in her class. She asked me to come in to help her

with

accomodating his work. Has told me that I am welcome, in fact she

HOPES, I

come in the classroom alot. I really think I am going to enjoy this

year

with her. The aide is the same one he has had since 2nd grade, and

whatever

the pros and cons of having the same aide, we are DELIGHTED. It would

be

very difficult to find another as qualified as her! Maverick is in 5th

grade

so this year he participates in the D.A.R.E. program.

Ok, SO, our 1st inclusion meeting was set for Sept 7 and we had to

cancel

cause the teachers have a meeting that is mandatory. So, the next time

that

everyone can make it is the 24th of Sept. Neither the teacher, aide,

nor I

felt comfortable with that long of a gap...so we decided to get together

before school one morning to go over a few things. NO biggie. Made us

all

feel better. Next, I had concerns about the D.A.R.E. program and making

sure

that Maverick could get as much as possible out of it, yet not be

expected to

do more than he could. SO, I went in after a D.A.R.E. class and talked

to

the D.A.R.E. officer and the teacher and the aide about how to work it

out.

HE IS WONDERFUL!! When the kids have to write their 3 page

essays.....he's

going to take Mav aside and have him tell him about it, and HE will

write it

down. He thought of this himself and really wants to make sure that Mav

benefits. Well, while at this little CHAT, I found out that Maverick

was

being pulled to the resource room for speech. His IEP says no pull

outs. We

did allow them to pull him out last year to the office in the back of

the

room when working on articulation, but that's as far as we would allow

it.

It states this in his IEP and we have gone over it and over it with the

speech therapist. I was not a happy camper!!

When the teacher mentioned to the speech therapist and sp ed teacher

that I

didn't want him pulled out, they were very upset. " Well, how did she

find

out!!! " When the teacher mentioned that I had been there the sp ed

teacher

asked WHY we were having all these secret little meetings!!!! Like I am

not

allowed to talk to the teacher? The other day I was there and mentioned

to

the speech therapist that we DID NOT want him pulled out and she said,

she

doesn't have room in the office to work with him? And that we would

discuss

it at his inclusion meeting. I told her that if she felt the need to

pull

him out she needed to call an IEP meeting and request a change. I can

see we are going to have a bit of a struggle her. I was hoping to at

least get through the first month of school with out having to redirect

them

to the IEP, but here we go. And it is just game playing since this is

NOT

the first time the speech therapist had tried this with us. I am

concerned

that if I give them an inch, they will take a mile. I debated whether

to let

them pull him out for language arts...but they pull out about 1/3rd of

the

class..and we feel he really would benifit more from that session than

the

reg ed classroom. BUT, speech is another problem. In the past speech

therapists have gone in and done all the speech in the classroom. His

seech

therapist at home does all his work at a little tikes table, and doesn't

need

much room. The school speech therapist is not comfortable with

inclusion and

needs to get over it.

ON A BRIGHTER NOTE, we went and bought his bells for band today. He was

bummed that he couldn't start right in on drums...but he needs to become

proficient at bells first..this might be an incentive for him....or a

nightmare for me!!!

Thanks for listening!!

[Guest guest]

What you had with teacher and aide wasn't an IEP meeting or a secret

meeting. It was a parent teacher conference, just like any parent could

have with the reg ed teacher. I think the speech therapist should get

over it.

Judi

Inclusion/IEP/Non compliance

Hi all,

Well, this year started out so wonderfully. The teacher is so

entusicatic

about having Maverick in her class. She asked me to come in to help her

with

accomodating his work. Has told me that I am welcome, in fact she

HOPES, I

come in the classroom alot. I really think I am going to enjoy this

year

with her. The aide is the same one he has had since 2nd grade, and

whatever

the pros and cons of having the same aide, we are DELIGHTED. It would

be

very difficult to find another as qualified as her! Maverick is in 5th

grade

so this year he participates in the D.A.R.E. program.

Ok, SO, our 1st inclusion meeting was set for Sept 7 and we had to

cancel

cause the teachers have a meeting that is mandatory. So, the next time

that

everyone can make it is the 24th of Sept. Neither the teacher, aide,

nor I

felt comfortable with that long of a gap...so we decided to get together

before school one morning to go over a few things. NO biggie. Made us

all

feel better. Next, I had concerns about the D.A.R.E. program and making

sure

that Maverick could get as much as possible out of it, yet not be

expected to

do more than he could. SO, I went in after a D.A.R.E. class and talked

to

the D.A.R.E. officer and the teacher and the aide about how to work it

out.

HE IS WONDERFUL!! When the kids have to write their 3 page

essays.....he's

going to take Mav aside and have him tell him about it, and HE will

write it

down. He thought of this himself and really wants to make sure that Mav

benefits. Well, while at this little CHAT, I found out that Maverick

was

being pulled to the resource room for speech. His IEP says no pull

outs. We

did allow them to pull him out last year to the office in the back of

the

room when working on articulation, but that's as far as we would allow

it.

It states this in his IEP and we have gone over it and over it with the

speech therapist. I was not a happy camper!!

When the teacher mentioned to the speech therapist and sp ed teacher

that I

didn't want him pulled out, they were very upset. " Well, how did she

find

out!!! " When the teacher mentioned that I had been there the sp ed

teacher

asked WHY we were having all these secret little meetings!!!! Like I am

not

allowed to talk to the teacher? The other day I was there and mentioned

to

the speech therapist that we DID NOT want him pulled out and she said,

she

doesn't have room in the office to work with him? And that we would

discuss

it at his inclusion meeting. I told her that if she felt the need to

pull

him out she needed to call an IEP meeting and request a change. I can

see we are going to have a bit of a struggle her. I was hoping to at

least get through the first month of school with out having to redirect

them

to the IEP, but here we go. And it is just game playing since this is

NOT

the first time the speech therapist had tried this with us. I am

concerned

that if I give them an inch, they will take a mile. I debated whether

to let

them pull him out for language arts...but they pull out about 1/3rd of

the

class..and we feel he really would benifit more from that session than

the

reg ed classroom. BUT, speech is another problem. In the past speech

therapists have gone in and done all the speech in the classroom. His

seech

therapist at home does all his work at a little tikes table, and doesn't

need

much room. The school speech therapist is not comfortable with

inclusion and

needs to get over it.

ON A BRIGHTER NOTE, we went and bought his bells for band today. He was

bummed that he couldn't start right in on drums...but he needs to become

proficient at bells first..this might be an incentive for him....or a

nightmare for me!!!

Thanks for listening!!

[Guest guest]

I have never been convinced that inclusion means a child must be in a

mainstream class for 100% of the working school day. I do believe that

every effort should be made to modify or diferentiate class work to allow

every student to take part at their own level but when a child needs extra

stuff, like speech, or physio or OT etc sometimes it might not be

approrpaite to stay in class. I am not saying it is not approrpiate for

your son just that it is not always appropriate for several reasons. I'll

use my son as an example. He is almost 8 yet has the speech of a 2-3 year

old, the methods used for his speech work mean he is encouraged to move

around a room and to make a lot of noise and sometimes to sit very still and

in silence so he can listen and hear clearly sounds in words. He uses games

that are aimed at his ability level (around 4-5 years). He could not do

speech therepy like this within a morning classroom where the other children

are doing their literacy work, he would distrub them and they would distrub

and distract him. the games he plays would certainly distract them and it

is highly possible that some might make fun (not that that bothers tim at

all at the moment). He does speech therepy with a qualified therepist once

a fortnight in a morning. But his IEP says he needs speech work daily, and

it is very similar to the therepists work. He needs to be in a room without

distraction. So we compromise, rather than miss the essential (to my mind)

morning literacy and numeracy work he is taken out for 30 minutes every

afternoon by his csa, usually from something like history or geography becoz

frankly they are meaningless to him at this point in time. He is never

removed from fun activities like singing or PE, or rehersals or on school

trips. The rest of his IEP targets, academic ones, OT ones are caried out

over the course of each day in the class work he does along with every one

else. They are not ticked off everyday as done or acheived, they are

discussed twice termly with me, his assitant, class teacher and special

needs teacher and updated then as neccessary. I believe he is fully

included in his school even tho he is not in the classroom 100% of the time

and for somethings, like which dinner group he goes in with, he gets

'preferential' treatment, always in the first group tho still queuing within

this group. The dinner system is such that he is unable to use it without

adult support, going in first means he won't need adult support for so long

which has got to be better for him (and cheaper for school!). I don't

believe that inclusion means treating a child with specific learning

difficulties in exactly the same way as his typical peers. I believe it

means giving him the same opportunities as others while recognising,

celebrating and dealing with his differences. I see removal from the

classroom (when there is no appropraite classroom alternative) as no

different for tim than removal 5 minutes before lunch to receive ritalin is

for his friend with ADHD, or going to the sick bay twice a day to test sugar

levels is for the diabetic, or the neccesity for a young man coming into the

school next term to use a separate disabled toilet instead of using the

'proper' infant toilets along with his peers.

I guess I see inclusion along the lines of the least restrictive enviroment

that is often mentioned on this list. Almost every child in tims class is

pulled out at some point in the week to do something outside the classroom

away from his peers, I don't see removal as a restriction but as a

neccessary part of tims education.

sue wong

Well, while at this little CHAT, I found out that Maverick was

> being pulled to the resource room for speech. His IEP says no pull outs.

[Guest guest]

I have never been convinced that inclusion means a child must be in a

mainstream class for 100% of the working school day. I do believe that

every effort should be made to modify or diferentiate class work to allow

every student to take part at their own level but when a child needs extra

stuff, like speech, or physio or OT etc sometimes it might not be

approrpaite to stay in class. I am not saying it is not approrpiate for

your son just that it is not always appropriate for several reasons. I'll

use my son as an example. He is almost 8 yet has the speech of a 2-3 year

old, the methods used for his speech work mean he is encouraged to move

around a room and to make a lot of noise and sometimes to sit very still and

in silence so he can listen and hear clearly sounds in words. He uses games

that are aimed at his ability level (around 4-5 years). He could not do

speech therepy like this within a morning classroom where the other children

are doing their literacy work, he would distrub them and they would distrub

and distract him. the games he plays would certainly distract them and it

is highly possible that some might make fun (not that that bothers tim at

all at the moment). He does speech therepy with a qualified therepist once

a fortnight in a morning. But his IEP says he needs speech work daily, and

it is very similar to the therepists work. He needs to be in a room without

distraction. So we compromise, rather than miss the essential (to my mind)

morning literacy and numeracy work he is taken out for 30 minutes every

afternoon by his csa, usually from something like history or geography becoz

frankly they are meaningless to him at this point in time. He is never

removed from fun activities like singing or PE, or rehersals or on school

trips. The rest of his IEP targets, academic ones, OT ones are caried out

over the course of each day in the class work he does along with every one

else. They are not ticked off everyday as done or acheived, they are

discussed twice termly with me, his assitant, class teacher and special

needs teacher and updated then as neccessary. I believe he is fully

included in his school even tho he is not in the classroom 100% of the time

and for somethings, like which dinner group he goes in with, he gets

'preferential' treatment, always in the first group tho still queuing within

this group. The dinner system is such that he is unable to use it without

adult support, going in first means he won't need adult support for so long

which has got to be better for him (and cheaper for school!). I don't

believe that inclusion means treating a child with specific learning

difficulties in exactly the same way as his typical peers. I believe it

means giving him the same opportunities as others while recognising,

celebrating and dealing with his differences. I see removal from the

classroom (when there is no appropraite classroom alternative) as no

different for tim than removal 5 minutes before lunch to receive ritalin is

for his friend with ADHD, or going to the sick bay twice a day to test sugar

levels is for the diabetic, or the neccesity for a young man coming into the

school next term to use a separate disabled toilet instead of using the

'proper' infant toilets along with his peers.

I guess I see inclusion along the lines of the least restrictive enviroment

that is often mentioned on this list. Almost every child in tims class is

pulled out at some point in the week to do something outside the classroom

away from his peers, I don't see removal as a restriction but as a

neccessary part of tims education.

sue wong

Well, while at this little CHAT, I found out that Maverick was

> being pulled to the resource room for speech. His IEP says no pull outs.

[Guest guest]

It's NOT the pullout that I am concerned about. It's WHERE they pull him

out. Maverick can get pulled out to the office area in the back of the room

and that would be much less restrictive AND disruptive and time consuming

than leaving the room and going to another area of the school. The work that

is being done with Maverick in speech is not overly loud and can be

accomplished in the office with the door closed.

I have absolutely NO problem with my son being separated from the classroom

to another area to learn IF that is what is going to work best for him. I

have seen him come SO FAR with no pullout except for the speech in the back

office. I know it can work and as long as it is working, we'll keep it up.

When/if we see that he needs more intense work in another area, we'll discuss

that. At this point, all I can see is that it's certain members of the

staff unwilling to make a few changes to accomodate any differences.

I might also add, that having Maverick in the regular classroom has changed

the way the whole school is working with their resource students. They used

to pull them out all the time. NOW, the sp ed teacher goes into the

classroom and works with a large group of the class that needs extra support.

Some students still get pull out work for more reinforcement but over all,

watching Maverick learn and grow these past 5 years has taught the school

that Inclusion IS a possibility.

[Guest guest]

It's NOT the pullout that I am concerned about. It's WHERE they pull him

out. Maverick can get pulled out to the office area in the back of the room

and that would be much less restrictive AND disruptive and time consuming

than leaving the room and going to another area of the school. The work that

is being done with Maverick in speech is not overly loud and can be

accomplished in the office with the door closed.

I have absolutely NO problem with my son being separated from the classroom

to another area to learn IF that is what is going to work best for him. I

have seen him come SO FAR with no pullout except for the speech in the back

office. I know it can work and as long as it is working, we'll keep it up.

When/if we see that he needs more intense work in another area, we'll discuss

that. At this point, all I can see is that it's certain members of the

staff unwilling to make a few changes to accomodate any differences.

I might also add, that having Maverick in the regular classroom has changed

the way the whole school is working with their resource students. They used

to pull them out all the time. NOW, the sp ed teacher goes into the

classroom and works with a large group of the class that needs extra support.

Some students still get pull out work for more reinforcement but over all,

watching Maverick learn and grow these past 5 years has taught the school

that Inclusion IS a possibility.

[Guest guest]

In thinking about this, it might help to differentiate between the practice of

creating opportunities for a child to receive very focused, specific tuition

(tutoring, mentoring, practice, which might possibly involve some time away from

the regular classroom), and the practice of segregating and _congregating_ kids

with disabilities.

'Least restrictive environment' (an idea which has been used to justify some

pretty distorted solutions) doesn't have to translate to congregation.

Dave Wetherow

http://www.community-works.net

[Guest guest]

In thinking about this, it might help to differentiate between the practice of

creating opportunities for a child to receive very focused, specific tuition

(tutoring, mentoring, practice, which might possibly involve some time away from

the regular classroom), and the practice of segregating and _congregating_ kids

with disabilities.

'Least restrictive environment' (an idea which has been used to justify some

pretty distorted solutions) doesn't have to translate to congregation.

Dave Wetherow

http://www.community-works.net