Re: Now Private Schools - Action Alert--IDEA Amendment

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/6/2001 12:25:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

shelby_c@... writes:

> *.... if

> you choose to homeschool your child w/DS then the public schools can also

> *deny* all services to your child..... they do not always do this.... but

>

Shelby,

Your interpretation of the law is incorrect. See section 300.450 -

300.462 of IDEA

Public schools are required by law to do child find and locate the children

with disabilities that are enrolled by parents in private schools. They MUST

set aside a portion of federal dollars sent to them for services ( remember,

the feds only fund 13 percent ( I believe that is the current figure) of IDEA

budget, not much of your federal tax dollars are being spent on special

education students) That pot of money is then distributed via services in

the manner the school system decides. It can go all to one student , it can

go first come, first serve, it can go only so much per student, but private

school students do receive services from public schools. They are not

entitiled to the same level of services they would receive if they were

enrolled in public schools because the federal government will not mandate

that a school system be forced to provide TWO programs for one child ... in

other words, if the services are available and you choose not to accept them,

the school's obligation to provide a free and appropriate public education

has been met and you rejected it.

If you want your local school system to do more for special education

students in private schools, you can check their annual plan, make

suggestions, lobby your school board, and make an effort to make them aware

of your displeasure and help them understand what you want them to do for

your child. Tell them how you want your local tax dollars spent, that is

where the bulk of the funds for education services for our children comes

from, local tax dollars.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/6/2001 12:25:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

shelby_c@... writes:

> > continue to support my special child's needs for therapies..... since the

> > private school cannot afford to do so and is not given any funding/tax

> > dollars to do so.....

>

Private schools CAN apply for federal dollars ... but IF they accept

federal funding, they MUST abide by federal laws regarding accessibility and

IDEA. There is nothing stopping them from applying for federal dollars!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am with you on this issue. Until private schools accept any and all

children I will never vote for vouchers. <snip>

The public schools must and some do a better job than others but at least

they can't turn my child away.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I hear what you are both saying and agree Cheryl and Kathy... it is

unfortunate that private schools CAN and DO turn many of our kids away.....

and this is *NOT* right!!!

*My* only point here is that *if* and *when* a child with a disability *IS*

accepted into a private school..... IDEA 97 then says that the public

schools no longer have to provide *ANY* services to the child.... which is

totally unfair as I STILL pay taxes for these public schools even though

*none* of my children attend them.... and I feel the *least* they can do is

continue to support my special child's needs for therapies..... since the

private school cannot afford to do so and is not given any funding/tax

dollars to do so.....

I think this ammendment in the law STINKS..... and dread the day Colleen's

public SPED program figures it out and denies her services.....

That is all I was trying to say.....

Regards,

Shelby :-(

[Guest guest]

One more thing..... this amendment ALSO applies to *Homeschoolers*.... if

you choose to homeschool your child w/DS then the public schools can also

*deny* all services to your child..... they do not always do this.... but

they CAN and if the *DO* then you have NO RIGHTS under due process according

to my legal counsel.... you FORFEIT those rights when you enroll your child

in private or homeschool..... I just don't think this is right....

jmho

Shelby :-(

> *My* only point here is that *if* and *when* a child with a disability

*IS*

> accepted into a private school..... IDEA 97 then says that the public

> schools no longer have to provide *ANY* services to the child.... which is

> totally unfair as I STILL pay taxes for these public schools even though

> *none* of my children attend them.... and I feel the *least* they can do

is

> continue to support my special child's needs for therapies..... since the

> private school cannot afford to do so and is not given any funding/tax

> dollars to do so.....

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/6/2001 12:25:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

shelby_c@... writes:

>

> One more thing..... this amendment ALSO applies to *Homeschoolers*.... if

> you choose to homeschool your child w/DS then the public schools can also

> *deny* all services to your child..... they do not always do this.... but

> they CAN and if the *DO* then you have NO RIGHTS under due process according

> to my legal counsel.... you FORFEIT those rights when you enroll your child

> in private or homeschool..... I just don't think this is right....

>

> jmho

> Shelby :-(

>

This is VERY wrong. In Pennsylvania, where I homeschool, I have a legal

right to services for my non disabled children under current homeschool law.

That's horrible that it would not apply to my DISABLED children! I think

that I am finally infuriated!

Connie

[Guest guest]

Perhaps I am not making this clear and you will understand when you read the

sections of the law I referred to.

The LEAs can still deny services to children with disabilities who are

enrolled in private school by their parents ... I didn't say otherwise. There

is NO entitlement to services or rights for private school students that are

placed by their parents. I gave examples of how this can happen in my

previous post. You could have one child whose needs are so significant that

all the funds are spent on that child. You could have an LEA that only funds

speech services for those private school students, or OT, or PT. There is no

limitation on how they can spend their funds on private school students or

how many actually receive the services.

But the law (IDEA 97) does require LEAs to go thru child find process for

private school students and does have a formula requirement for set aside

funds that is derived from the funds they spend on special education services

for public school children. That pot of money (whatever the formula

dictates) is for services to private school students. But they do not have to

provide services to every child or provide services at the same level they

would if that child was a public school student. So there can be private

school students that are denied services and their parents only have one

recourse ... enroll them in public school.

Your private school child may receive services this year ... but the LEA

could change their service provision plan next year and she could be bumped

out of the line. You should really keep tabs on your LEAs annual plan each

year when they submit it to your state department of education and check on

their plans for services to private school students. In Virginia our LEAs

submit their annual plans by June 1st every year. In many cities the drafts

of their plans are in local libraries a few weeks before they are approved by

the school board, so that the public can review and comment on them. Also,

we have special ed advisory boards whose duty is to make recommendations to

the school board. As I said before, there is no law stopping states and LEAs

from providing services to private school students.

You're right, I have been doing this a long time. I won't tell you how many

seminars/workshops/conventions I've been to Shelby, or the presenters I know

personally, ( like one who argued before the Supreme Court and won) but I

will tell you that I work with people who helped write IDEA 97 and stood

beside the President when he signed it into law. You would be amazed at what

I still learn every day about special education laws and rights!!

IDEA will be coming up for reauthorization soon. It just took a tremendous

hit in the senate with the Sessions bill going thru and students with

disabilites lost a tremendous right to FAPE with the wording of this bill. I

am glad my daughter's education is almost completed, for I fear more rights

will be lost before this battle is over.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I know you have been at this waaaay longer than I have.... and with all due

respect...... I will go and seek out the clause in which you refer to

below.....

But in actuality the section of IDEA that I am referring to is section

226.340 under FAPE (Free Appropriate Public Education) which specifically

states " Students voluntarily enrolled by parents in private schools are not

entitled to FAPE or due process protections. "

I learned of this in a seminar I attended recently and the IDEA 97

amendments were presented by a paralegal of a prestigious Chicago law firm

who specializes in Special Ed - Due Process cases.....

Believe me, I asked and clarified it to death.... and she added the part

that it also refers to homeschoolers which are considered a " private " school

under the law.....

Now let me also clarify that just because the law states this does not mean

it is necessarily so..... I *think* that many schools are not legaleezed

enough to understand this small amendment..... unless they are pressed for

budget constraints and go looking for *loopholes* (and this is a biggie) to

cut.....

So in other words..... you may be able to homeschool or send them to private

school and *STILL* receive services..... (Currently Colleen will attend both

private and public school concurrently in the fall) {{{knocking wood,

fingers crossed etc.}}}

BUT.... if they should decide to deny you (and it *IS* their legal right to

do so) then you would have NO DUE PROCESS or no legal leg to stand on...

because it *IS* the law......

I was told if my child is in a private school.... the IDEA is basically out

the window along with ALL OF HER RIGHTS to FAPE and due process...... and

this came from a legal person.....

And this is FEDERAL law so it is not just in my state.....

Is Amy out there lurking???? Do she have any interpretation on this?????

Just curious.... as I was DEVASTATED when I learned of this amendment and it

was effective with the 1997 revisions of IDEA according to this paralegal

who spoke to us.....

But out of curiosity I will go and see what this other section you refer to

(300.450 -300.462) says because I would LOVE for this NOT to be so.... trust

me!!!!

Thanks for the reference....

Respectfully,

Shelby :-(

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your interpretation of the law is incorrect. See section 300.450 -

300.462 of IDEA

Public schools are required by law to do child find and locate the children

with disabilities that are enrolled by parents in private schools. They

MUST

set aside a portion of federal dollars sent to them for services ( remember,

the feds only fund 13 percent ( I believe that is the current figure) of

IDEA

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/6/2001 10:22:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

kindafunny@... writes:

> shelby_c@... writes:

>

>

> >

> > One more thing..... this amendment ALSO applies to *Homeschoolers*.... if

> > you choose to homeschool your child w/DS then the public schools can also

> > *deny* all services to your child..... they do not always do this.... but

> > they CAN and if the *DO* then you have NO RIGHTS under due process

> according

> > to my legal counsel.... you FORFEIT those rights when you enroll your

> child

> > in private or homeschool..... I just don't think this is right....

>

Actually, it's not a matter of denying rights ... the law doesn't provide

the same rights for students placed by their parents in private school to

begin with, so they haven't denied the students anything. And a child's

rights to a Free and Appropriate Public Education are always present for the

child, under the limitations of the law, they are not forfeited ... they just

don't transfer to private school. Any time a student is enrolled in public

school, their rights under IDEA apply. This also applies for students who

are placed in private schools by public school systems who cannot provide an

appropriate education for the students in their own system.

This is really a good time for parents who want changes to get proactive and

work on contacting legislators and putting forth the effort to make their

wishes known. If you feel this strongly about this issue, I would suggest

working to make the changes when IDEA is reauthorized.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

> Perhaps I am not making this clear and you will understand when you read

the

> sections of the law I referred to.

Thanks for the clarification Cheryl - it makes a little more sense..... I

personally never cared for Business Law (or any kind of law) in graduate

school.... so reading all this stuff hurts my brain......

Now let me ask you something else.... as if this private school/public fund

thingy wasn't complicated enough......

What happens if the private school is across the state line in a different

state (IN) than the child resides (IL) and attends public SPED (IL).....

what happens to this funding you mention then? Is it Federal? Will it

still be available???

Thanks for all the information.... I had misunderstood your initial response

but appreciate all the additional information you have provided.... I am

still concerned though and will have to look into those funding filings you

mentioned.

Thanks again,

Shelby :-/

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/7/2001 10:34:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

shelby_c@... writes:

> What happens if the private school is across the state line in a different

> state (IN) than the child resides (IL) and attends public SPED (IL).....

> what happens to this funding you mention then? Is it Federal? Will it

> still be available???

>

The funding is set aside by each city (or LEA) for the group of children

identified as private school students placed by their parents that are in

need of special education services.(FAPE is not an issue) It comes from

their school budget. The way the funds are spent is determined by each LEA.

They could spend the entire pot of money on ONE child if that is how they

planned. Because NO private school student placed by parents (when FAPE is

not an issue) is entitled to services or rights, they DO NOT have to spend

funds on each and every student. You could have every child receive a

proportionate amount, you could have one child get it all, you could have the

funds used for the first on the list until it runs out, you could have a

variety of scenarios on how the funds will be disbursed.

If I were the LEA (Local Education Agency, we're talking cities) in IL and

was made aware of a student who attended a private school in another state

(IN) I could still offer that child services through the money reserved for

such purpose. As the LEA, I could argue that I am not obligated to provide

transportation (although some would argue this is a related service necessary

for child to benefit from the special education services, see how complex

this issue can be!) so I would tell the parents that the services are

available at a school in my district at a specific time and if they have

their child there to receive services at the appointed time and the appointed

place, everything has been done properly. Keep in mind that is just ONE

option the LEA could take.

However, the best way to determine what your LEA is responsible for is to

read your own state regs, I am sure they have something in there and if you

can't find it, write to your Department of Education and ask.

Cheryl in VA