Re: Goals: Meaningful and Relevant or Garbage? (from Disability is Natural)

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In a message dated 11/3/06 9:47:15 AM, ps1272000@... writes:

What did you all think?

We have committed to Homeschooling our girls and it has it's challenges as well. I have never done an IEP and I know my self well enough to know it would stress me out horribly. We muddly through each year working on things Olivia needs to learn or do and somehow manage to test her out at the end of each year having made progress.

Making goals is a daunting task for all of us. I relate to how she frames her article in terms of other kids and ourselves. The IEP seems so black and white, yet it must be flexible enough to implement. I guess I cannot speak as one having some experience with this process, so my opinion is maybe not as valuable as those who have successfully gone down this road. I suspect it is very unique for each family depending on the school district and the child's needs. How well each school is willing to accomodate varies wildly and can either make or break the IEP process. We live in a rough school district in the inner city and I have many teacher friends who tell me Olivia would NOT do as well in our system as she does at home. Either way HSing or Public Schooling it takes planning and a strong advocate who is willing to fight for certain things. With our public waiver funding each year we have to advocate for the things that will be most helpful to Olivia and each year it changes.

Joan

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She brings up some very interesting and complicated issues in this article and the one Alice posted. What did you all think regarding these? I have conflicting feelings!

I would love to see an entire IEP written by Kathie! Though I like her goals, I can't imagine writing them for an entire year's worth of school!!! YIKES!! So let's say little Jimmy learns his geography using the puzzle, what about all the other lessons that need to be learned that year? Are you really going to be able to write a goal like that for each one? Isn't that 'methodology'. How is a parent to know what the heck is going to be learned for that entire year in each area of the curricumlum, let alone come up with such detailed goals for each? Maybe I am not 'getting' what she is saying, but in real life, I don't see how a person could do this. You have a full length book by the time you were done.

I do see what she is saying about cutting people some slack in different areas. The way I get around this is to simply not write any goals regarding things that typical kids get away with anyway. ;o) For example- a goal for during group times might be to sit and not be talking loudly and disturbing everyone next to her as that's a rule everyone needs to follow, but we can't have 'pay attention' to the teacher as a goal. That would be nuts IMHO.

As for using her dislike of using percentages to measure goals- that is surprising as it seems to *the* way everyone recommends! 's Law certainly does. If you don't have some artificial way to measure outcomes, school doesn't seem to work up towards them. This is a fact of school life I think. ALL kids have to work to certain standards of performance. Look at the bell curve and grade system. The IEP allows us to tailor make that standard to fit the child. With out that, it certainly seems nothing gets done.

As gets older I can see her getting more invovled in setting her goals, but given the oppurtunity how many of your typical kids would write in 'memorize multiplication tables, learn the capitols, or do algebra' in *their* goals?? There are some things we just do cause they are the standard for all kids in school. And I thought we wanted our kids to be treated as typical as possible? The system as it stands need kids to fit into it, not the other way around. Not saying if this correct or not, just IS. And also not saying that school can't or doesn't adjust to individuals to some degree- just not to the degree she is asking for- ie: no artificial standards. That seems to be asking for something 'different' for our kids, using a different standard. I am not saying the kids don't need different goals, but they still need some kind of standard to works towards.

Again, not sure where I fall on all this ( I just try to do the next thing I know CHRISTINE NEEDS, not analyize the system) but it seems she is talking out of both sides of her mouth? And for some odd reason in reading these, I get the sense she has lowered her standards a bit and calls it 'discrimination' if a child is asked to comply with typical standards.

OTH- I DO see incidents at school where they just need to accept were she *is* and *who* she is, while carefully and slowly molding her. And isn't that what we do with ALL kids????

What did you all think?

Carol in IL

Mom to seven including , 6 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, chronic constipation ( cured now ) and DS.

My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.

Goals: Meaningful and Relevant or Garbage? (from Disability is Natural)

http://www.disabili tyisnatural. com/articles/ Goals.htm

[Guest guest]

I guess in IEP's I tend to concentrate on all present agreeing on addressing academic/social/physical goals that are of concern, not getting too bogged down in exactly how they are written. Home to school communication can take care of suggestions from both sides on how to accomplish - if you have a good rapport. (Ex: visual strategies, what resources/tools you are using at home, sharing resources) Although obviously strategies can be written into IEP's, specific programs can not. For me, the whole idea is for educators and parents to be working together for the child.

And let's face it. I am quite sure my child doesn't really see the purpose of having to "do math." The big picture of why academics is important is pretty tough to explain. Not that we aren't pushing, but given her choice, Larissa would pick watching a movie every time.

Mindy

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Kinda like you, Carol, she wrote some interesting goals, but getting the school burocracy to change would be a huge challange!

Faith's goals are simple and basic. I think that makes them more likely to be addressed. Getting too complicated leads to everyone ignoring them. Last year she had too many speech goals. Not all were addressed because of time. I used that to get more time this year, but we also reduced and simplified some goals. She also has a communication goal that the classroom teacher rather than SLP is responsible for.

The way I understand IEP goals, if something is addressed by the gen ed curiculum and the child is in the gen ed classroom, that doesn't need to be a goal. In second grade Faith's IEP goals address first grade skills not yet mastered. As always the argument with the school is where those goals will be met!

I don't know if this is all so very complicated or if the school desires it to seem more complicated to confuse parents!

ette

mom to Faith (9)DS

--------- Goals: Meaningful and Relevant or Garbage? (from Disability is Natural)

http://www.disabili tyisnatural. com/articles/ Goals.htm

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I also have conflicting feelings about goals/objectives...both as a mom and special ed teacher. For my kids, I"ve opted for fewer goals/objectives and, hopefully, more modifications/accommodations. I don't get all tied up in the IEP. I base my kids successes on the fact that I see they ARE learning, they come home happy, they go to school happy, every year I see progress...I don't get wrapped up in a detailed IEP--maybe because I haven't HAD to to be (mostly) satisfied with their educations up to this point.

I also think meaningful and relevant is often very ambiguous...what is meaningful and relevant to one person is very different for someone else. I guess that's where the individualized would/should come in. But, I also think typical kids are forced to learn, or at least be exposed to, a lot of information that is neither meaningful or relevant and if I want my kid *included* I will also encourage that he be part of the that curriculum.

Jill

Mom to Mac (8 yrs., 3rd grade, Ds) and Kit (5 yrs., preschool, Ds)

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I agree Mindy Lee, how you write your goals is dependent on how well the school is working with you. If they know what needs to be done, and are good at doing it- writing it down is just a formality.

If they are disagreeing with a parent, or everyone is not on the same page, the IEP becomes the battle ground and I think that is where all the issue about how it's written comes up. A well written IEP forces the school to do the right thing.

Carol in IL

Mom to seven including , 6 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, chronic constipation ( cured now ) and DS.

My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.

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I wrote more complicated goals for this year because school tested her for some things with out ever having bothered to teach her in the first place. Things I KNOW she could easily learn so I pointed out that it was foolish to have had her all year knowing these tests were coming and never once addressed some of the basic things in the tests!!!! I *think* they got my message.

What is the point of having all these therapies to help her get up to speed on things and then never teach to the test that everyone puts so much weight into it???? DUH!!!

I heard that as well about the things being in the general ed curriculum not having to be on the IEP. How do they grade Faith for those things? I sometimes get the feeling school speaks out of both sides of it's mouth regarding that- doesn't need to be on the IEP, but if it's not on there, we don't need to address it... well SOME things.. they seem to pick and choose and that was is what bothers me.

I think IEP's are complicated for everyone. There doesn't seem to a rule book for them as of yet. Seems so varied from district to district and nothing really orderly about them at all.

Carol in IL

Mom to seven including , 6 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, chronic constipation ( cured now ) and DS.

My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.

[DownSyndromeInfoEx change] Goals: Meaningful and Relevant or Garbage? (from Disability is Natural)

http://www.disabili tyisnatural. com/articles/ Goals.htm

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Are you saying that fewer goals on the IEP translates into more accommodations/modification?

Do you put modify and accommodate in the IEP?

Yes.... no matter how crazy school feels sometimes, I too take solice knowing she is learning tons and loves school too. I know we are making great progress, but I have to agree with the school staff when they said "You want it ALL" My response... "Sure I do, what's wrong with that??" ;-)

Carol in IL

Mom to seven including , 6 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, chronic constipation ( cured now ) and DS.

My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.

Re: Goals: Meaningful and Relevant or Garbage? (from Disability is Natural)

I also have conflicting feelings about goals/objectives. ..both as a mom and special ed teacher. For my kids, I"ve opted for fewer goals/objectives and, hopefully, more modifications/ accommodations. I don't get all tied up in the IEP. I base my kids successes on the fact that I see they ARE learning, they come home happy, they go to school happy, every year I see progress...I don't get wrapped up in a detailed IEP--maybe because I haven't HAD to to be (mostly) satisfied with their educations up to this point.

I also think meaningful and relevant is often very ambiguous... what is meaningful and relevant to one person is very different for someone else. I guess that's where the individualized would/should come in. But, I also think typical kids are forced to learn, or at least be exposed to, a lot of information that is neither meaningful or relevant and if I want my kid *included* I will also encourage that he be part of the that curriculum.

Jill

Mom to Mac (8 yrs., 3rd grade, Ds) and Kit (5 yrs., preschool, Ds)

[Guest guest]

We do not have any specific Science or Social Studies goals on Mac's IEP, but those classes are still modified for him based on the modifications listed on the IEP.

[DownSyndromeInfoEx change] Goals: Meaningful and Relevant or Garbage? (from Disability is Natural)

http://www.disabili tyisnatural. com/articles/ Goals.htm