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Beth,

My son 5 is on enzymes and GF/CF, ect. He has made huge leaps w/

interactions w/ others, since the beginning of enzymes. Start them

and see what happens. I give the enzymes w/ everything he eats, just

in case. Also check out website.

good luck,

nne

>

>

>

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:14:41 -0700 (PDT)

> From: Beth Kennedy

> Subject: enzymes

>

>

> I am ready to begin enzymes. My son is gfcf. A couple of questions:

>

> -If we have no infractions, do we still need the enzymes? Are they

" just in case? "

>

> -I remember a lot of recent chatter about competition in this

field. I am confused. Could someone recommend the best one?

>

> My son is almost 3.

>

> Beth

>

>

>

> we use houston's enzymes.... i was told that they were formulated

just for our kids in mind and are much stronger than others....i

believe that kirkman's states it is for infractions only... but its

been a while since i 've been there... we were gfcf for mo before

starting them and once we started them were gfcf for over 5 mo

afterwards we had a few infractions... towards the 5th mo we were

having soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many

infractions that we decided to drop the diet and see what would

happen.... that was over 3 mo ago and we have had no regression or

ill effects. some kids cannot drop the diet with houston's but then

again many can.... we use all 3 enzymes....pep, zyme and no fenol

(didn't realize that there was a phenol issue until we tried it for a

mo... there is a link to a message board here on on

www.houstonni.com the board is called . you can

also search for it on the groups home page. i great place to pose

the questrions that you have...files are fab...lots of info and there

are people that use all kinds of enzymes.... i would have to say

that houston's enzymes are our preferred ones as they have given us a

quality of life we have never known.... neva

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

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--- In @y..., Beth Kennedy <merrybethkennedy@y...>

wrote:

>

> I am ready to begin enzymes. My son is gfcf. A couple of

questions:

>

> -If we have no infractions, do we still need the enzymes? Are they

" just in case? "

My kids tolerate exactly four foods without enzymes. So everything

they eat is an infraction. So I give HNI enzymes with all foods.

>

> -I remember a lot of recent chatter about competition in this field.

I am confused. Could someone recommend the best one?

I use HNI

http://www.houstonni.com/

You can also buy enzymes from Kirkman

http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/

If you want to consider leaving gfcf, then consider HNI. Kirkman

indicates its enzymes are for infractions only. If you will remain

gfcf, then it will be a matter of which enzyme your child does better

using.

Dana

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Hi

The rash could be from some yeast die-off with the No-Fenol. Some

parents report having to go really slow with the No-Fenol. You could

also be seing some of the opiod withdrawal effect from the Peptizyde

which should get better after another week. My son had a slight rash

on his cheeks only when he first started enzymes.

Adding vitamin B with enzymes gave my son a rash and made him hyper.

Is your child taking anything with vitamin B?

I wouldn't start the Pep, ZP and No-Fenol at the same time. I would

try to work out the dose on one before starting the other. Since you

are seeing some good results along with the problems, you may try

reducing one or even all of enzymes even more rather than dropping

them. If that doesn't help, I would drop one of the enzymes for

several days and maybe drop two of them, then build back up slowly.

You should see some improvements after three weeks, but some need

longer to adjust and get the dose worked out. I would not add back

any foods yet, get through the adjustment period before you consider

any other changes.

> Hi,

> My son is 6 yrs old, has autism and on the gfcg for the last 3

yrs. We are Irish and I really just heard about Devin's enzymes from

a friend in the UK, I had previously tried enzymaid and it was

difficult. I have just started using the enzymes and am noticing

changes. In the last week since he started P ZP and NoF he has skin

reactions is showing an increase in hyperactivity, and behaviours are

regressing a bit, i.e. showing anxiety and slightly more aggressive.

I reduced the dosage and we are still experiencing some problems.

> At the same time he is showing better joint attention, more verbal,

stringing words and showing more awareness of temperature, sound,

tactile, etc.

> Are the enzymes only for use with infractions? we have a birthday

party coming up in a few weeks and I would dearly love to give him

some normal (harry Potter ) cake.

> Should I expect the symptoms to last for a few weeks? Should I try

this for 3 wks and then decide what to do? I was worried when I saw

the skin rash on his cheeks and an increase in the

behaviours/anxiety. The rash also had the appearance of little heads.

> I haven't seen this since he was an infant on a normal diet.

> I would appreciate any help.

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What you are observing is not uncommon with effective enzymes, some

kids will go through the opioid withdrawal for a longer period of

time than others. The skin rash is usually non-itchy and may be

toxins resulting from the enzymes " cleansing " or removing debris from

the GI tract. These toxins are often eliminated through the skin,

and the rash usually disappears in a week or so. As he becomes more

aware of his environment, he may be agitated in trying to cope with

the increased sensory input; which may explain the combination

of " good " and " not so good " observations.

I would stay the course, and see if the negatives diminish within the

next 2 weeks or so.

Devin

> Hi,

> My son is 6 yrs old, has autism and on the gfcg for the last 3

yrs. We are Irish and I really just heard about Devin's enzymes from

a friend in the UK, I had previously tried enzymaid and it was

difficult. I have just started using the enzymes and am noticing

changes. In the last week since he started P ZP and NoF he has skin

reactions is showing an increase in hyperactivity, and behaviours are

regressing a bit, i.e. showing anxiety and slightly more aggressive.

I reduced the dosage and we are still experiencing some problems.

> At the same time he is showing better joint attention, more verbal,

stringing words and showing more awareness of temperature, sound,

tactile, etc.

> Are the enzymes only for use with infractions? we have a birthday

party coming up in a few weeks and I would dearly love to give him

some normal (harry Potter ) cake.

> Should I expect the symptoms to last for a few weeks? Should I try

this for 3 wks and then decide what to do? I was worried when I saw

the skin rash on his cheeks and an increase in the

behaviours/anxiety. The rash also had the appearance of little heads.

> I haven't seen this since he was an infant on a normal diet.

> I would appreciate any help.

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It is usually a good sign to see positive improvements along with

the negative things. This tends to indicate re-adjustment effects

and the negatives resolved themselves in a bit. And you listed quite

a few improvements there. Great. Starting all three at once may be

producing some of the more dramatic results. I would suggest keeping

the Zyme Prime and Peptizyde and reducing the No-Fenol by half at

least to reduce the impact. You may want to discontinue it for a few

weeks completely too. Then increase again slower after about a week

or so.

>>> Are the enzymes only for use with infractions? we have a

birthday party coming up in a few weeks and I would dearly love to

give him some normal (harry Potter ) cake.

Certain enzymes like Peptizyde can be used instead of a GFCF diet

regularly for many people that want to. You certainly don't have to

leave any type of restrictive diet. So it is up to you and if your

child is responding well. You can do an assortment of combinations

of food eliminations/enzymes too. That is the nice thing about

having options. If you are planning to re-introduce a food, you may

want to do a test run before the party in case he doesn't tolerate

it...wouldn't want to spoil his party that day.

If you saw the rash before when he was on a normal diet, this could

be indicative of him trying to 'detox' something then too. Keep

posting over the next few days. The first three weeks are the

trickiest while trying to determine if this will be effective,

dosing, with what foods, etc. Adjustment effects are very common

with any enzymes for any typical person as well.

.

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Hi

I'm not Devin, but thought I'd throw in my 5 eggs worth LOL

> Thanks Devin,

>

> Is the opoid withdrawal based on the fact that the enzymes may be pulling

> peptides from elsewhere, e.g. the yeast in the bowel?

******Enzymes are more effective than diet with the Peptides - check out

s comments in the Files section. I found that the Pep helped with my

sons yeast so you could be seeing some effect from that.

His diet is quite restrictive. How do you feel about epsom salt baths during

this

> period?

> ******I think this is god idea if you tried them before and he's OK with

it. Helps to detox which would be good if the enzymes are helping to destroy

the yeast (yeast has protien overcoat and Pep helps pop it, toxins released,

can cause behaviours and or hyper and or some rash)

A doctor in Norway recommended papain and enzymes for my son three years ago,

> when I had the urine peptide testing done so I'm really hoping that this

> works for him.

> ******I hope so too, my son is doing VERY well onthe HNI enzymes

My son has the leaky infalmed bowel. Would he have any extra discomfort when

> taking the enzymes?

> I will try to stay the course by reducing or even staggering introduction

of enzymes.

> ******This is good plan, many of our kids have leaky gut which is why they

> have problems. I am sure that using the HNI has helped heal my sons gut. We

> have been using them for nearly 18 months (off diet too)

> He is on GSE so maybe that is also having toxic release. His bm's are fine

> now they have improved in the week just not happening as often as they used

> to.

> ******GSE is very effective and its likely that yeast has been hit and

toxins released. My son can only cope with 2 days GSE one or two drops per

day, hes 5 and 50 pounds. Best to pulse dose the GSE or may distort the bowel

flora the opposite way (been there done that LOL). Good probiotics too.

Note: No Fenol reduces the amount of stool by digesting fibres and stuff

better, also leaves less to feed the yeast and bugs in the bowel. Sam has

much less poop now with the No Fenol

One final question. He's about to have blood testing done for analysis.

Should he

> take enzymes on the day?

> *******Not sure, I'm not stopping them for Sams blood tests though

>

> Good luck Miriam, keep asking questions if you need too!

Mandi in UK

>

>

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Thanks ,

Which enzyme would you recommend I try first? My son had recently been on an

anti-yeast protocol and I introduced GSE shortly before the enzymes. Maybe too

much together.

If I drop one should I maintain the NoF as it might help the yeast problem even

in small doses? Actually he's not taking any vit B at the moment as he had a

reaction to Supernuthera and I felt I shouldn't over suplement while he was

having testing urine, stool, hair etc. done.

Is there any B vit you have found success with?

Miriam

> > Hi,

> > My son is 6 yrs old, has autism and on the gfcg for the last 3

> yrs. We are Irish and I really just heard about Devin's enzymes from

> a friend in the UK, I had previously tried enzymaid and it was

> difficult. I have just started using the enzymes and am noticing

> changes. In the last week since he started P ZP and NoF he has skin

> reactions is showing an increase in hyperactivity, and behaviours are

> regressing a bit, i.e. showing anxiety and slightly more aggressive.

> I reduced the dosage and we are still experiencing some problems.

> > At the same time he is showing better joint attention, more verbal,

> stringing words and showing more awareness of temperature, sound,

> tactile, etc.

> > Are the enzymes only for use with infractions? we have a birthday

> party coming up in a few weeks and I would dearly love to give him

> some normal (harry Potter ) cake.

> > Should I expect the symptoms to last for a few weeks? Should I try

> this for 3 wks and then decide what to do? I was worried when I saw

> the skin rash on his cheeks and an increase in the

> behaviours/anxiety. The rash also had the appearance of little heads.

> > I haven't seen this since he was an infant on a normal diet.

> > I would appreciate any help.

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Thanks Devin,

Is the opoid withdrawal based on the fact that the enzymes may be pulling

peptides from elsewhere, e.g. the yeast in the bowel? His diet is quite

restrictive. How do you feel about epsom salt baths during this period?

A doctor in Norway recommended papain and enzymes for my son three years ago,

when I had the urine peptide testing done so I'm really hoping that this works

for him.

My son has the leaky infalmed bowel. Would he have any extra discomfort when

taking the enzymes?

I will try to stay the course by reducing or even staggering introduction of

enzymes.

He is on GSE so maybe that is also having toxic release. His bm's are fine now

they have improved in the week just not happening as often as they used to.

One final question. He's about to have blood testing done for analysis. Should

he take enzymes on the day?

Miriam.

> > Hi,

> > My son is 6 yrs old, has autism and on the gfcg for the last 3

> yrs. We are Irish and I really just heard about Devin's enzymes from

> a friend in the UK, I had previously tried enzymaid and it was

> difficult. I have just started using the enzymes and am noticing

> changes. In the last week since he started P ZP and NoF he has skin

> reactions is showing an increase in hyperactivity, and behaviours are

> regressing a bit, i.e. showing anxiety and slightly more aggressive.

> I reduced the dosage and we are still experiencing some problems.

> > At the same time he is showing better joint attention, more verbal,

> stringing words and showing more awareness of temperature, sound,

> tactile, etc.

> > Are the enzymes only for use with infractions? we have a birthday

> party coming up in a few weeks and I would dearly love to give him

> some normal (harry Potter ) cake.

> > Should I expect the symptoms to last for a few weeks? Should I try

> this for 3 wks and then decide what to do? I was worried when I saw

> the skin rash on his cheeks and an increase in the

> behaviours/anxiety. The rash also had the appearance of little heads.

> > I haven't seen this since he was an infant on a normal diet.

> > I would appreciate any help.

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Thanks

I'm new to enzymes and new to messaging!

I appreciate the help. I feel that the impact of all together was too much.

I'll try it a bit more slowly. He was taking GSE already so maybe it was too

much 1/2 cap. of NoF as well as ZP and Pep at differnet meals. I think that he

may be detoxing anyway and I'm probably seeing the results of that.

I would love to be able to work towards having options. it would be so nice

just to eventually have the non GFCF on occasion. For the moment I'm not eager

to take him off his diet.

Do you think that the GSE and NoF together are too much for now?

For the moment I am noticing sensory changes in that his tactile sense seems to

be heightened and when he came out of the bath last night he started to shiver.

This is new!!

I will post again, it is so good to get help.

Thanks

Miriam

> It is usually a good sign to see positive improvements along with

> the negative things. This tends to indicate re-adjustment effects

> and the negatives resolved themselves in a bit. And you listed quite

> a few improvements there. Great. Starting all three at once may be

> producing some of the more dramatic results. I would suggest keeping

> the Zyme Prime and Peptizyde and reducing the No-Fenol by half at

> least to reduce the impact. You may want to discontinue it for a few

> weeks completely too. Then increase again slower after about a week

> or so.

>

> >>> Are the enzymes only for use with infractions? we have a

> birthday party coming up in a few weeks and I would dearly love to

> give him some normal (harry Potter ) cake.

>

> Certain enzymes like Peptizyde can be used instead of a GFCF diet

> regularly for many people that want to. You certainly don't have to

> leave any type of restrictive diet. So it is up to you and if your

> child is responding well. You can do an assortment of combinations

> of food eliminations/enzymes too. That is the nice thing about

> having options. If you are planning to re-introduce a food, you may

> want to do a test run before the party in case he doesn't tolerate

> it...wouldn't want to spoil his party that day.

>

> If you saw the rash before when he was on a normal diet, this could

> be indicative of him trying to 'detox' something then too. Keep

> posting over the next few days. The first three weeks are the

> trickiest while trying to determine if this will be effective,

> dosing, with what foods, etc. Adjustment effects are very common

> with any enzymes for any typical person as well.

>

> .

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Miriam,

Ooooo-shivering is good!!! My daughter also showed alot of new

sensations when she started enzymes...one in particular I remember is

she loves her Dad to swing her around at the park, but we used to

comment on how she never seemed to get dizzy-then shortly after

enzymes when he did it she would fall over!! Many new sensations

like this make it a tough time for our kids though-this is what

everyone refers to as good and bad reactions. You mentioned the

bowel thing in another post-is he actually celiac? If so then you

wouldn't want to reintroduce gluten at all. As far as the No Fenol-

it is very strong stuff and if you are already using GSE for yeast I

would definitely recommend backing off. I gave my daughter a very

tiny amount-maybe 1/8 capsul at her meals for months before upping

the amount. It is wonderful stuff though and has done great things

for her. I believe it has been key in helping her. I can now give

1/2 No Fenol cap with everything and a whole cap with highly phenolic

meals/snacks. I believe it works well with her MSM as well. You

mentioned epsom salt baths and I think those are a good idea. My

daughter asks for them when she is feeling edgy so I know they help

her to feel better. We stoped using SNT when she started enzymes as

well-too much vit B and she developed a rash/hyperness. I have

ordered Brainchild after speaking at length with on the phone-

he assured me it has only a tiny amount of vit B and should work

perfectly with enzymes. He is way behind on orders though so we

still haven't had the chance to try it-therefore I can't actually

recommend it. He also told me that he has a good multi coming out

with no vit B if you might be interested in looking into that. My

daughter is back on TMG now which has some vit B in it-I have only

reintroduced it at a very low dosage, but no negatives so far. With

the peptides Devin mentioned, your son's body could be " using " foods

you don't even suspect. Once you eliminate certain foods (like

gluten and casein) there are others the body will find ways to

misuse. My daughter had been gfcf for many months prior to using

enzymes-and I was strict with the diet-and she still had severe

withdrawl. I know soy was a culprit for one, but I'm sure there was

more. We are completely off the diet for months now and my daughter

is doing very well. I hope the enzymes work great for your son!!

Good luck!

---

In @y..., " mirt1999 " <miriam@h...> wrote:

> Thanks

> I'm new to enzymes and new to messaging!

> I appreciate the help. I feel that the impact of all together was

too much.

> I'll try it a bit more slowly. He was taking GSE already so maybe

it was too much 1/2 cap. of NoF as well as ZP and Pep at differnet

meals. I think that he may be detoxing anyway and I'm probably

seeing the results of that.

> I would love to be able to work towards having options. it would

be so nice just to eventually have the non GFCF on occasion. For the

moment I'm not eager to take him off his diet.

> Do you think that the GSE and NoF together are too much for now?

>

> For the moment I am noticing sensory changes in that his tactile

sense seems to be heightened and when he came out of the bath last

night he started to shiver. This is new!!

> I will post again, it is so good to get help.

>

> Thanks

> Miriam

>

> > It is usually a good sign to see positive improvements along with

> > the negative things. This tends to indicate re-adjustment effects

> > and the negatives resolved themselves in a bit. And you listed

quite

> > a few improvements there. Great. Starting all three at once may

be

> > producing some of the more dramatic results. I would suggest

keeping

> > the Zyme Prime and Peptizyde and reducing the No-Fenol by half at

> > least to reduce the impact. You may want to discontinue it for a

few

> > weeks completely too. Then increase again slower after about a

week

> > or so.

> >

> > >>> Are the enzymes only for use with infractions? we have a

> > birthday party coming up in a few weeks and I would dearly love

to

> > give him some normal (harry Potter ) cake.

> >

> > Certain enzymes like Peptizyde can be used instead of a GFCF diet

> > regularly for many people that want to. You certainly don't have

to

> > leave any type of restrictive diet. So it is up to you and if

your

> > child is responding well. You can do an assortment of

combinations

> > of food eliminations/enzymes too. That is the nice thing about

> > having options. If you are planning to re-introduce a food, you

may

> > want to do a test run before the party in case he doesn't

tolerate

> > it...wouldn't want to spoil his party that day.

> >

> > If you saw the rash before when he was on a normal diet, this

could

> > be indicative of him trying to 'detox' something then too. Keep

> > posting over the next few days. The first three weeks are the

> > trickiest while trying to determine if this will be effective,

> > dosing, with what foods, etc. Adjustment effects are very common

> > with any enzymes for any typical person as well.

> >

> > .

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Hi Mandi,

I'm trying just the ZP so far today and didn't five the NoFenol yet. He had the

GSE this morning and so far so good!

He's still a little jittery and the rash on his face appears to be a milder form

so I'm hoping.

We are having a better day, he's happy. He asked 'what' when we were discussing

something over lunch. It was as if he really wanted to join in.

I'm going to reduce the no Fenol to just one eigth and see how that goes.

You mentioned pulse dosing with GSE. When should you re start after stopping.

Have you used nystatin with the GSE? what can go wrong if you keep up the right

dosage. How can you reverse the flora?

You mentioned that the Pep pops the protien coating around the yeast. Does ZP

do this also? How can I determine if the yeast is going will I need to test

again?

Thanks,

Miriam

> Hi

> I'm not Devin, but thought I'd throw in my 5 eggs worth LOL

>

>

> > Thanks Devin,

> >

> > Is the opoid withdrawal based on the fact that the enzymes may be pulling

> > peptides from elsewhere, e.g. the yeast in the bowel?

> ******Enzymes are more effective than diet with the Peptides - check out

> s comments in the Files section. I found that the Pep helped with my

> sons yeast so you could be seeing some effect from that.

>

> His diet is quite restrictive. How do you feel about epsom salt baths during

> this

> > period?

> > ******I think this is god idea if you tried them before and he's OK with

> it. Helps to detox which would be good if the enzymes are helping to destroy

> the yeast (yeast has protien overcoat and Pep helps pop it, toxins released,

> can cause behaviours and or hyper and or some rash)

>

> A doctor in Norway recommended papain and enzymes for my son three years ago,

>

> > when I had the urine peptide testing done so I'm really hoping that this

> > works for him.

> > ******I hope so too, my son is doing VERY well onthe HNI enzymes

>

> My son has the leaky infalmed bowel. Would he have any extra discomfort when

>

> > taking the enzymes?

> > I will try to stay the course by reducing or even staggering introduction

> of enzymes.

> > ******This is good plan, many of our kids have leaky gut which is why they

> > have problems. I am sure that using the HNI has helped heal my sons gut. We

> > have been using them for nearly 18 months (off diet too)

>

> > He is on GSE so maybe that is also having toxic release. His bm's are fine

> > now they have improved in the week just not happening as often as they used

> > to.

> > ******GSE is very effective and its likely that yeast has been hit and

> toxins released. My son can only cope with 2 days GSE one or two drops per

> day, hes 5 and 50 pounds. Best to pulse dose the GSE or may distort the bowel

> flora the opposite way (been there done that LOL). Good probiotics too.

> Note: No Fenol reduces the amount of stool by digesting fibres and stuff

> better, also leaves less to feed the yeast and bugs in the bowel. Sam has

> much less poop now with the No Fenol

>

> One final question. He's about to have blood testing done for analysis.

> Should he

> > take enzymes on the day?

> > *******Not sure, I'm not stopping them for Sams blood tests though

> >

> > Good luck Miriam, keep asking questions if you need too!

>

> Mandi in UK

>

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

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Hi Devin,

My son started breaken out of rash after 1 week of AFP (started w/ 1

capsule/meal and up to 2 capsules/meal). The rash starting from his

face and spreading out to other body parts. It was 2 1/2 weeks and

the rash still going strong. I got scare and stopped the AFP. I

like to understand if this is a " common " reaction? If so, how long

the rash will stay? When should I start getting concern? By the way,

he's almost 5 and is been in GFCF for 2 1/2 years. Now he's also in

soy free diet as well.

Thanks,

> > Hi,

> > My son is 6 yrs old, has autism and on the gfcg for the last 3

> yrs. We are Irish and I really just heard about Devin's enzymes

from

> a friend in the UK, I had previously tried enzymaid and it was

> difficult. I have just started using the enzymes and am noticing

> changes. In the last week since he started P ZP and NoF he has

skin

> reactions is showing an increase in hyperactivity, and behaviours

are

> regressing a bit, i.e. showing anxiety and slightly more

aggressive.

> I reduced the dosage and we are still experiencing some problems.

> > At the same time he is showing better joint attention, more

verbal,

> stringing words and showing more awareness of temperature, sound,

> tactile, etc.

> > Are the enzymes only for use with infractions? we have a birthday

> party coming up in a few weeks and I would dearly love to give him

> some normal (harry Potter ) cake.

> > Should I expect the symptoms to last for a few weeks? Should I

try

> this for 3 wks and then decide what to do? I was worried when I

saw

> the skin rash on his cheeks and an increase in the

> behaviours/anxiety. The rash also had the appearance of little

heads.

> > I haven't seen this since he was an infant on a normal diet.

> > I would appreciate any help.

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In a message dated 1/25/2003 7:26:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

barbfritz@... writes:

> why is it that as soon as your kids miss

> a dose of enzymes that they regress?

In my experience, after having been on enzymes for several months, if we miss

a dose of the PEP, no ill effects, and we have cut dosage back drastically,

and the boys are still hanging in there. But we still seem to need the NF

for pigment infractions. I think the child's gut needs time to heal....its

just like an infraction if you are GF/CF.....the opiates start getting back

in. Just my theory. I'm sure you'll hear a lot more LOL! And I'm starting

to think that sensitivities to pigments never go away, even with enzymes.

Anyone else care to chime in on that?

Liane

Liane Gentry Skye

author

<A

HREF= " http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books & field-auth\

or=Skye%2C%20Liane%20Gentry/103-0462897-9459854 " >Turn Around, Bright Eyes -

Snapshots from a Voyage Out of Autism's Silence</A>

<A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With Pictures</A>

" nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

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Barbara, its because of their leaky guts. The enzymes digest the food

before it has a chance to leak out into the bloodstream. When food

leaks through undigested that is the problem. The enzymes stop the

peptide problem(from gluten/casein) most ASD kids have. Although

enzymes have a lasting benefit in that they help to heal the gut, etc

they do not last and must be readministered with more food.

Therefore, if a child eats food without enzymes the food will again

leak through and affect the body/mind in problematic ways. Many

children seem to show signs of gut healing over time in that if they

have a food infraction (problematic food) without enzymes the

reaction is greatly diminished than pre enzymes. Some kids can eat

foods at least ocassionally without enzymes after a period of time

(this is true of 's kids.) Kids who are chelating seem to need

less and less enzymes and tolerate more foods overall (especially

true for Dana's kids.) I hope this answered your question-that I

understood it correctly.

---

In , " logansmom1000 <barbfritz@a...> "

<barbfritz@a...> wrote:

> So I have a question. I have been reading a lot of what everyone

has

> to say in their postings and why is it that as soon as your kids

miss

> a dose of enzymes that they regress? Are enzymes naturally found

in

> the body and our kids just can't produce these as much as other

> kids?

>

> Barbara

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>> And I'm starting

> to think that sensitivities to pigments never go away, even with

enzymes.

> Anyone else care to chime in on that?

I had to remove corn, oranges, peas, strawberries, basically the

things restricted on lutein-free diet. Even with enzymes, these

things caused hyper and some stimming for my son.

But now many rounds of ALA chelation later, I have given my son 1/2

orange, small amounts of corn, and peas [no strawberries yet], and he

has tolerated them just fine, no negative effects. So for my son

anyway, he is losing his sensitivity to these things.

Still has problems with artificials tho, so no colors, flavors, or

nitrates.

Dana

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>> And I'm starting to think that sensitivities to pigments never go

away, even with enzymes. Anyone else care to chime in on that?

Bingggg, bongggg. LOL.

I think the No-Fenol can help process pigments but that may be a

issue of something besides leaky gut, insufficient digestion, not

enough enzymes, damaged gut lining, etc. It seems to be more related

to some detoxification methods. Enzymes can assist with

detoxification a little bit and of certain types. Some of the people

doing well with Feingold find No-Fenol is great for going from Stage

1 to Stage 2 and putting more actual food in the diet. But it is not

as helpful in adding in artificial stuff and chemicals such as

nitrates, sulfites, etc. This aspect really needs some more work.

Removing toxins would decrease the total toxin load and so I can

easily see how this would help with adding pigments back it the

diet. Perhaps some mechanism will yet be discovered.

.

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HI Kathie - you make me smile :)

We mostly talking about digestive enzymes here, I think they are GREAT!

www.houstonni.com

is the brand I use

/

Great files section and resouceful group

http://www.thundersnow.com/enzymebook.htm

Great easy to read and well referenced book thats explains all about it

Enjoy!

Mandi in Uk

> Several of you have mentioned enzymes. Are they good or bad?

> If they are good, where can a person get them? If they are bad, how can a

> person get rid of them?

> Kathie

>

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Hi

We use HNI with great results

www.houstonni.com

Good luck

Mandi in UK

> I would to ask the list, which digestive enzymes do you feel is good. We

> were using serinaid. But I ran out.

> angela

>

>

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In a message dated 2/3/03 8:03:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,

danaatty@... writes:

<<

I use HNI and they work very well for my family

>>

thanks, can you tell me more about them, and where I can purchase it?

ac

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,

Wouldn't the Houston No-Fenol help loads with the lutein problem? All I know is

that with No-Fenol I can give my girl

brightly colored veggies and fruits, and was not able to before (she'd get

hyper, oppositional, etc.).

Am I the only one who can use No-Fenol but not other Houston enzymes? Kirkman's

work well for us, but not Houston's

other enzymes (yet?).

K. (who has found 's help far more valuable than...)

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>>>> Wouldn't the Houston No-Fenol help loads with the lutein

problem? All I know is that with No-Fenol I can give my girl

brightly colored veggies and fruits, and was not able to before

(she'd get hyper, oppositional, etc.).

This is along the same line. The lutein/phenol/antioxidant/detox

thing is all related. And No-Fenol seems to help with this for many

people although the exact mechanism may not be know. There are some

ideas though (such as removing a carboxyl group, breaking down the

fibrous bonds, etc.)

>>> Am I the only one who can use No-Fenol but not other Houston

enzymes? Kirkman's work well for us, but not Houston's other

enzymes (yet?).

That does sound unusual especially because Zyme Prime is a typical

broad-spectrum product, but if that is what works...GREAT!

Fortunately you can mix and match enzymes a bit for more

alternatives.

.

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Jen-

>What's the difference between supplementing with enzymes that are " plant "

>derived ... and enzymes that are " animal " derived?

>Which is best?

>What kinds of enzymes are people in this group supplementing with?

Animal-derived enzymes (pancreatin, mainly, which is a complex of digestive

enzymes from the pancreas which will digest protein, fat and carbs) are

like your own digestive enzymes -- they'll help you digest

everything. Plant-derived enzymes are more like special-purpose tools

which will help with specific, narrow digestive issues.

Personally, I derive enormous benefits from a pancreatin supplement and

didn't notice any benefit at all from any of the plant-derived supplements

I've tried, but your mileage may vary.

-

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Wouldn't animal enzymes require alkaline environment before they could work?

hmmm... I'm thinking this would make predigestion hard given the acidic

nature of the stomach

correct me if I'm wrong

jen

----- Original Message -----

From: " Idol " <Idol@...>

< >

Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:14 AM

Subject: Re: ENZYMES

> Jen-

>

> >What's the difference between supplementing with enzymes that are " plant "

> >derived ... and enzymes that are " animal " derived?

> >Which is best?

> >What kinds of enzymes are people in this group supplementing with?

>

> Animal-derived enzymes (pancreatin, mainly, which is a complex of

digestive

> enzymes from the pancreas which will digest protein, fat and carbs) are

> like your own digestive enzymes -- they'll help you digest

> everything. Plant-derived enzymes are more like special-purpose tools

> which will help with specific, narrow digestive issues.

>

> Personally, I derive enormous benefits from a pancreatin supplement and

> didn't notice any benefit at all from any of the plant-derived supplements

> I've tried, but your mileage may vary.

>

>

>

>

> -

>

>

>

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