Re: OT RE:ACTH stim testing

[Guest guest]

>From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

..however I consider myself an expert on hypo symptoms

>(smile) and my observation/knowledge about my daughter says

>only " adrenal " at this time.

So, you're aware that hypothyroid can cause asthma, plantar fasciitis,

costochondritis, rheumatoid and other relatively unknown symptoms.

And as an expert, you must be aware that a lot of adrenal symptoms are

actually hypothyroid symptoms because the thyroid needs proper adrenal

function in order to work well. Too much cortisol and you wind up with too

much inactive rT3. Too little cortisol and you simply wind up excreting T4

that never turns into T3.

You must be aware that Dr. Derry claimed inability to cope was actually a

low thyroid problem.

You must be a real expert in order to tell the difference, and actually know

whether it's a thyroid or an adrenal symptom. I could never even figure out

if the lack of hair on my calves had to do with thyroid, adrenal or wearing

socks too much as it depended on the web site what the opinion was.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

i have received an email from an NTH moderator berating me and

accusing me of all sorts of things because of, presumably, my post

below.

let me be clear. NTH is a good thyroid list. I was a member there

about two years until I was banned over the H/C issue. Anyone who

is a member there knows when I voiced a slightly dissenting

viewpoint from the moderators, the discussion was moved to another

group and I was banned and prevented from participating in the

discussion:

NTHCortisoldiscussion/

What I stated below is the absolute truth - but it should not be

construed in any way to say that NTH is a bad list. In fact I would

have no problem saying it's the best thyroid list.

cindi

> >

> > >>

> > I've never been to NTH, but already know of at least 3 people

> kicked off.

> > Is that why they're afraid to relate?

[Guest guest]

yep! i had the asthma for 10 years and a couple of diagnoses of

costochrontritis over the years before treatment.

and yep, i know that because low thyroid can cause adrenal

dysfunction in general...that it's often hard to tell what is what.

yep, I know Derry said that. I also know others say thyroid hormone

is the coping hormone (not enough and life is like a

battlefield)...whereas cortisol is the stress hormone...so it does

get a little muddled trying to sort it out.

you forget I've seen my daughter's current thyroid labs....so have

that as an indicator that they look perfect. and don't forget I

know her personal medical history that could contribute to adrenal

problems.

cindi

>

>

> So, you're aware that hypothyroid can cause asthma, plantar

fasciitis,

> costochondritis, rheumatoid and other relatively unknown symptoms.

>

> And as an expert, you must be aware that a lot of adrenal symptoms

are

> actually hypothyroid symptoms because the thyroid needs proper

adrenal

> function in order to work well. Too much cortisol and you wind up

with too

> much inactive rT3. Too little cortisol and you simply wind up

excreting T4

> that never turns into T3.

>

> You must be aware that Dr. Derry claimed inability to cope was

actually a

> low thyroid problem.

>

> You must be a real expert in order to tell the difference, and

actually know

> whether it's a thyroid or an adrenal symptom. I could never even

figure out

> if the lack of hair on my calves had to do with thyroid, adrenal

or wearing

> socks too much as it depended on the web site what the opinion was.

>

> Skipper

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Try the new Live Search today!

> http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-

us & FORM=WLMTAG

>

[Guest guest]

i say you are a brave man...but then you do check otherwise for HPA

suppression.

I do agree that stress dosing can have a place even if someone isn't

on h/c routinely.

uh - isn't this an iodine group? come on over to " adrenal

fatigue " . there's a variety of opinions there and everyone gets

along...and it's interesting to learn from the different experiences

on how folks are handling their AF.

cindi

>

> >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>

> >you think someone taking 20 mg. can just stop? and not wean?

> >cindi

>

> I can. I've done it several times.

>

> Maybe because my HPA isn't suppressed and my adrenals still work.

>

> OTOH, someone with actually 's Disease, diagnosed or not

would have a

> big crash. Might even wind up in the ER.

>

> I've gone as long as a couple weeks without it, but the problem is

I

> gradually decline. I have a suspicion my problems have to do with

low

> cholesterol to a degree, as the building block of all the steroid

hormones,

> Vitamin D, bile, progesterone, pregnenolone, testosterone,

estrogen and

> cortisol is cholesterol.

>

> Not everyone with low cholesterol has adrenal problems, but some

do.

>

> If one doesn't have enough cholesterol in the blood, and the

adrenals can't

> manufacture enough from acetate, then there won't be enough

cholesterol to

> build those steroid hormones necessary for life.

>

> So in answer to your question, not everyone on 20 mg needs to

wean off the

> dosage. Especially if our HPA is not suppressed, which in most

cases it

> won't be at that level.

>

> If I don't take my Cortef today, nothing bad is going to happen.

I'm not

> that dependent on it. At least, not any more. There was a time I

needed to

> take it promptly on schedule, but it has strengthened my adrenals,

the

> adrenal " reserve " is higher, and my HPA is not suppressed.

>

> I'm not advising anyone to simply stop their cortef without

weaning. Some

> people really have a desperate need for it, so not everyone can do

so

> safely.

>

> I also don't wean down from large doses. When I went to the

dentist and

> took 80 mg of Cortef before going that day, which greatly helped

with my

> recovery, I simply took the 80 mg that one day and was back down

to 20 the

> next day. A large dose taken only one day is not going to

suppress the HPA

> either.

>

> Oh, I know that's why the establishment medical profession is

afraid of it,

> it'll induce 's Disease and you'll be dependent on it the

rest of

> your life. But, if you need Prednisone and you meet certain

criteria, we'll

> give you 20 times the suppressive dose and be happy to do so.

>

> Cortef is a very safe medication when used in low doses.

>

> Skipper

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows

Live

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[Guest guest]

Cindi - Please ..... enough is enough!

Janie NEVER " berated or accused " you of anything (for that matter NO

ONE did) - there is no need to be dragging your mud thru all these

boards. It does nothing positive for the boards, detracts from the

wonderful help, support and information that these communities are all

about.

Please stop these negative discussions on the public boards - they

achieve nothing in everyone search to reach optimum treatment & thus

good health. Opinions do differ - that's life, but you don't seem to

be able to accept that. Enough ok?????

Kirsty

>

> i have received an email from an NTH moderator berating me and

> accusing me of all sorts of things because of, presumably, my post

> below.

>

> let me be clear. NTH is a good thyroid list. I was a member there

> about two years until I was banned over the H/C issue. Anyone who

> is a member there knows when I voiced a slightly dissenting

> viewpoint from the moderators, the discussion was moved to another

> group and I was banned and prevented from participating in the

> discussion:

> NTHCortisoldiscussion/

>

> What I stated below is the absolute truth - but it should not be

> construed in any way to say that NTH is a bad list. In fact I would

> have no problem saying it's the best thyroid list.

> cindi

>

[Guest guest]

I didn't say Janie did. I said I had received an email from a

moderator. It wasn't Janie.

but enough of what? expressing my opinion? So I'm not allowed to

do that anywhere?

i'd say yall really need to stop tracking my every word and trying

to monitor my every thought. fair enough?

cindi

> >

> > i have received an email from an NTH moderator berating me and

> > accusing me of all sorts of things because of, presumably, my

post

> > below.

> >

> > let me be clear. NTH is a good thyroid list. I was a member

there

> > about two years until I was banned over the H/C issue. Anyone

who

> > is a member there knows when I voiced a slightly dissenting

> > viewpoint from the moderators, the discussion was moved to

another

> > group and I was banned and prevented from participating in the

> > discussion:

> > NTHCortisoldiscussion/

> >

> > What I stated below is the absolute truth - but it should not be

> > construed in any way to say that NTH is a bad list. In fact I

would

> > have no problem saying it's the best thyroid list.

> > cindi

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Gracia----I don't think it is wise to talk about someone who is not

here to defend themselves....I don't know who Tish is but, am sure

she wouldn't like your personal opinions on this board for everyone

to read!

DanaW.

> >

> >

> > Tish doesn't understand that other hormones are involved when

> adrenals are low. Low thyroid/low adrenal/low sex hormones. I am

not

> sure she understood about DHEA either. IMO she understood very

> little. She was/is confused.

>

>

>

>

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9/22/2006

>

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you should keep your opinions on this matter to yourself.

Cindi is a grown up and can do fine without your input on something

that doesn't concern you.

That's just my personal opinion tho.

Sue

> >

> > i have received an email from an NTH moderator berating me and

> > accusing me of all sorts of things because of, presumably, my

post

> > below.

> >

> > let me be clear. NTH is a good thyroid list. I was a member

there

> > about two years until I was banned over the H/C issue. Anyone

who

> > is a member there knows when I voiced a slightly dissenting

> > viewpoint from the moderators, the discussion was moved to

another

> > group and I was banned and prevented from participating in the

> > discussion:

> > NTHCortisoldiscussion/

> >

> > What I stated below is the absolute truth - but it should not be

> > construed in any way to say that NTH is a bad list. In fact I

would

> > have no problem saying it's the best thyroid list.

> > cindi

> >

>

[Guest guest]

actually once you have some experience using these hormones, it is just not that hard to figure out. I think it is pretty neat in fact. When I encounter someone who wants to do test after test, I think to myself wow what a waste of time.

Gracia

Thanks for that acknowledgement. Even Peatfield says start with 2.5 and work up until stable....and that 20 mg. is the dose that works best ordinarily. I just think it's important to remember that there is variation in folks. It can be difficult on thyroid forums to always get all the info about a person before directing them on how to treat. age is important, weight may be a factor, digestive issues can cause someone to need more, other medical problems, how long undiagnosed.....so throwing out 20 mg./5 mg. 4x a day may not be the right answer for everyone. And although many say the average dose of Armour is 3-5 grains, there are folks who are doing well on a combo of T4/Armour or just 2 grains of Armour. I believe it was Issacs who had the study that everyone over 40? could benefit from 1/2 grain of desiccated thyroid extract. cindi>> >From: "cindi22595" <cindi22595@...>> > > >yes...all the ones that I know who have done 10 mg. - 12 mg. have> >said to me the atmostphere was hostile to lower dose H/C> >experiences.> > There's nothing wrong with it.> > The vast majority of hypothyroid patients not on their optimal dose are > given too little. Getting too little can actually produce new hypothyroid > symptoms. Yet, some people are helped by 1/2 grain of Armour and don't do > well if they go higher. I'm sure it's the same with adrenal replacement.> > What Jeffries says I consider to be safe and I suspect will work for most > people. That doesn't mean you can't take less that 20 mg a day.> > Skipper> > __________________________________________________________> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us & source=hmtagline>

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006

[Guest guest]

dang gracia. i think i'm pretty much in agreement with you here.

I'd probably say labs and such are merely " tools " to validate the

diagnosis....or often they can give a " baseline " so you know what

you're working with. and so that might be helpful for a new person to

the endocrine scene.

But this testing that docs like to do on thyroid all the time...to me,

that's a waste of money and time...once a person gets somewhat stable,

they should know how to make any minor adjustments. And very few docs

of course have a clue about adrenal testing.

cindi

>

>

> actually once you have some experience using these hormones, it is

just not that hard to figure out. I think it is pretty neat in

fact. When I encounter someone who wants to do test after test, I

think to myself wow what a waste of time.

[Guest guest]

>From: " Gracia " <circe@...>

> actually once you have some experience using these hormones, it is just

>not that hard to figure out. I think it is pretty neat in fact. When I

>encounter someone who wants to do test after test, I think to myself wow

>what a waste of time.

It shouldn't be a waste of time. There should actually be tests that work.

Unfortunately, more credibility is given to the tests than should be.

Skipper

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ine

[Guest guest]

What is NTH? Is SSTM Stop The Thyroid Madness?

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Cindi, we are not " tracking your every word! " We just happen to be

members of this group also. So " we " are not allowed to defend 'our'

position here on the Iodine group? And I really don't understand

why the cortisol discussion is here..isn't this an Iodine group?

Cindi I do have to say and for the others here too, that you were

not banned for having a difference of opinion. That was said to you

over and over again. You were banned because you were intent

on " sounding the alarm " to people. You stated on NTH that you

didn't want to take cortisol for fear of becoming an 's

Patient! Now is that the fear we want to instill in people that

have fear as a symptom already? Janie had asked you not to do that

just to protect others who actually did need the HC..and they would

be afraid after hearing that they might become an 's

patient. Of course people need to know there is a risk! But if you

need cortisol, you need it..and whether or not it is for life (small

risk), you STILL need it. Only those with a true AI are likely to

have a problem with getting off the HC. There is also a risk with

taking Armour. And even more so! If you take Armour (or other

thyroid meds), you can plan on needing it for life.

Anyway, I just want to say, as a moderator of NTH, we do not shoot

down folks taking small doses of HC. It is just that doses of less

than 20 mg don't often provide enough and so we tell them that. But

if it does work..that is fine! If you want to take synthroid and be

on a NATURAL THYROID HORMONES group...then expect us to recommend

Armour over synthetics every time. If you do better on a synthetic,

then find another group that advocates that! If you want to add a

synthetic T3 or T4 to your natural thyroid hormones..that is great

too! Janie (owner) takes added T4, (moderator) takes added

T3. I (moderator) take only Armour. Yes we are all different. And

I don't know where you are getting all your anger and rage. I am

beginning to think you are mad at US for a difference of opinion.

Missy

> > >

> > > i have received an email from an NTH moderator berating me and

> > > accusing me of all sorts of things because of, presumably, my

> post

> > > below.

> > >

> > > let me be clear. NTH is a good thyroid list. I was a member

> there

> > > about two years until I was banned over the H/C issue. Anyone

> who

> > > is a member there knows when I voiced a slightly dissenting

> > > viewpoint from the moderators, the discussion was moved to

> another

> > > group and I was banned and prevented from participating in the

> > > discussion:

> > > NTHCortisoldiscussion/

> > >

> > > What I stated below is the absolute truth - but it should not

be

> > > construed in any way to say that NTH is a bad list. In fact I

> would

> > > have no problem saying it's the best thyroid list.

> > > cindi

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

oh - they're bringing in the NTH mod troop to attack now. I've had 4

emails this morning and now two personal attacks here. Tsk.

I have never brought up HC here...I have responded to HC posts.

you'll have to ask the moderator here why the HC discussion is

allowed.

Rather than try to answer you point by point...which i'm so weary

of....anyone can read over my posts on HC here or at NTH or

at " adrenal fatigue " if it's such a big deal. Actually, the

revisions at SSTM are looking pretty good now on the adrenal page.

Sometimes the messenger just gets shot, ya know?

Cindi

> > > >

> > > > i have received an email from an NTH moderator berating me

and

> > > > accusing me of all sorts of things because of, presumably,

my

> > post

> > > > below.

> > > >

> > > > let me be clear. NTH is a good thyroid list. I was a member

> > there

> > > > about two years until I was banned over the H/C issue.

Anyone

> > who

> > > > is a member there knows when I voiced a slightly dissenting

> > > > viewpoint from the moderators, the discussion was moved to

> > another

> > > > group and I was banned and prevented from participating in

the

> > > > discussion:

> > > > NTHCortisoldiscussion/

> > > >

> > > > What I stated below is the absolute truth - but it should

not

> be

> > > > construed in any way to say that NTH is a bad list. In fact

I

> > would

> > > > have no problem saying it's the best thyroid list.

> > > > cindi

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

btw, missy. i believe the sentence you are now telling me i was

banned over was quite some time before i was actually banned...and

that I had many posts after that...but it's fine with me if you've

like to copy/paste the entire paragraph so that it is not taken out

of context...and then folks can see what type of statements do

constitute banning from NTH should there be any question.

If by " sounding the alarm " you mean the type of critical analysis

and intelligent discussion that has been held here on HC, I would

still say that tends imply that NTH doesn't allow differing

opinions.

Cindi

>

> Cindi I do have to say and for the others here too, that you were

> not banned for having a difference of opinion. That was said to

you

> over and over again. You were banned because you were intent

> on " sounding the alarm " to people. You stated on NTH that you

> didn't want to take cortisol for fear of becoming an 's

> Patient! Now is that the fear we want to instill in people that

> have fear as a symptom already? Janie had asked you not to do

that

> just to protect others who actually did need the HC..and they

would

> be afraid after hearing that they might become an 's

> patient.

[Guest guest]

Folks

THis is the IODINE group and the discussion of stuff from other lists here is really inappropriate.

mjh"The Basil Book"http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

Anyway, I just want to say, as a moderator of NTH, ........

Missy

[Guest guest]

NTH is "natural thyroid hormones group"

Re: Re: OT RE:ACTH stim testing

What is NTH? Is SSTM Stop The Thyroid Madness?

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

NTH is the group Natural Thyroid Hormones.

SSTM is an excellent thyroid/adrenal/etc.information public site

started by the moderator of NTH. www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

Cindi

>

> What is NTH? Is SSTM Stop The Thyroid Madness?

> Thanks,

>

>