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I also worry about this, if my son became sick from chelation and we

sought help from our regular medical group (military) would they

question our methods. Has this ever happened to anyone? Maddie

>

> > Anyway, my question is this. If I'm striking out when it comes

to finding

> a

> > doctor to help, how on earth will I get help to chelate? I know

I can buy

> > the DMSA myself, but I'd feel better if I was supported by a

doctor,

> > assuming we would need to chelate my son. How have others gone

about

> doing

> > this?

>

> I'm a nurse and we are considering this route. I would order

periodic blood

> tests through Direct Labs, a CMP( comprehensive metabolic panel)

maybe after

> each round, it includes kidney and liver function tests. The only

thing I

> would worry about is if something went wrong and you had to seek

treatment

> by a physician, I'm not so sure they couldn't press some weird

charges on

> the parent... <sigh>

>

> We have a compounding pharmacy here, they won't even do vitamins

without a

> dr. rx...

>

> Trish

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> -----Original Message-----

> From: Max Salinas [mailto:msalinas@...]

>

> You can't practice medicine without a license, but I

> think this means you can't practice on others. Where

> do your children fit in? I don't know for sure, but

> the law seems to give a lot of lattitude to parents in

> determining the care of their children.

>

> Max

The law gives a lot of latitude on this in general. Have you ever pulled out

a splinter, or cleaned out a cut then put a bandage on it for someone?

Suggested that someone take an aspirin (or acetaminophen or ibuprofen) for a

headache? Has anyone done these things for you? All of these examples are

technically practicing medicine. There is also other things that we as human

beings are *expected* to do for our fellow humans that qualifies as

practicing medicine. In some cases, charges can be pressed for not rendering

aid when needed. Interesting conflict of law, don't you think?

Tana

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> So can you legally chelate yourself with legally

> acquired agents? I would imagine so. Can you do the

> same for your minor children? Probably.

The problem may lie in the fact that DMSA, while available without a

prescription online, IS a prescription medication, which you are

obtaining without a prescription, so there is some question as to the

legality of that. Perhaps there could be medical neglect or

something? Which would be in the case of someone chelating on their

own and then being *afraid* to seek (and not seeking treatment) if

something went wrong?

I'm a nurse and I'm just not willing to risk doing this without a

doctor, and not for the above reason. I'm just not so sure that I

would know if something was amiss, even with blood tests and I don't

want to do further damage. Forutuneately I have a sympathetic

doctor, BUT he isn't doing the protocols that I've heard of. I STILL

have yet to find out anything about D-pennacillamine and if is safe

or effective in chelation. I wish someone would chime in about that,

so I could decided to pursue or not. Also, my doctor is not using

Doctor's Data for the hair test (he's using Great Smokies), nor the

counting rules (which make sense to me), so for now we are going by

the Doctor's Data hair testing, which I've ordered kits for my dd and

myself, will look at those with Andy's counting rules, then take this

info to the doctor and a printed version of Andy's protocol and the

counting rules and see if I can educate him! LOL!

It's a shame you can't just get a doctor on the phone to discuss

stuff any more, they are just too darned busy!

> I've only chimed in because I thought it an

> interesting question, and I was afraid it might drop

> on the floor...

I " m glad you did! Now, do you know anything about D-pennicillamine???

:-)

Trish

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> The law gives a lot of latitude on this in general. Have you ever

pulled out a splinter, or cleaned out a cut then put a bandage on it

for someone? Suggested that someone take an aspirin (or

acetaminophen or ibuprofen) for a headache? Has anyone done these

things for you?>>

Yes, but most of these things are NOT potentially harmful, and or if

they are (i.e. some one has an allergic reaction to Ibuprofen) the

person was an adult and had a choice to follow your advice or not. In

the instance of chelation with DMSA a potentially harmful (and

controlled MOSTLY by prescription) substance is being given to a

child that can not decided or consent to or not to take it. (I'm not

trying to start a conflict here, just playing the Devil's Advocate)

<< All of these examples are technically practicing medicine. There

is also other things that we as human beings are *expected* to do for

our fellow humans that qualifies as practicing medicine. In some

cases, charges can be pressed for not rendering aid when needed.

Interesting conflict of law, don't you think?

And in SOME cases you can be prosecuted for rendering aid above the

level of your expertise. The law protects me as a nurse in rendering

aid only if I render aid in the scope of my knowledge as a nurse, if

I cross that line (say preforming an emergency tracheotomy with the

tubing from a ballpoint pen) I could be prosecuted for that, even if

it saved the person's life, because it is not in the scope of my

practice as a nurse to preform tracheotomy's.

Trish

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Trish,

under search c/o British anti-lewis. It will lead to info on detoxing with

d-penicillian.

R

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> -----Original Message-----

> From: troupefamily [mailto:kianasmom@...]

>

> << Interesting conflict of law, don't you think?

>

> And in SOME cases you can be prosecuted for rendering aid above the

> level of your expertise. The law protects me as a nurse in rendering

> aid only if I render aid in the scope of my knowledge as a nurse, if

> I cross that line (say preforming an emergency tracheotomy with the

> tubing from a ballpoint pen) I could be prosecuted for that, even if

> it saved the person's life, because it is not in the scope of my

> practice as a nurse to preform tracheotomy's.

>

> Trish

Yes, that was actually why I didn't bring up CPR, one is supposed to be

currently certified to perform it. If one's certification expired the day

before perfuming it, the person could be *easily* prosecuted for a rib

breaking during the procedure. However, they can still be prosecuted if the

certification is up to date. Could the person have a wrongful death case

brought against them by a family member of the deceased if it was known that

the person knew CPR but didn't perform it because the certification *just*

expired? Yes, it could be, and it is possible that the family member of the

deceased could win. That is part of what I mean by conflict of law.

Tana

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Hi Margaret,

My understanding is that Dr. Goldberg is opposed to chelation, although I do not

know the reason. You might want to call the support line (on the

website, I believe) and ask for information. I have a friend who is currently

chelating her son and also wants to take him to see Dr. G. After calling the

support line, she decided to wait until after her son is finished chelating

before starting the protocol.

Donna

Chelation

Hi

Is anyone out there chelating as well as following the protocol? The

whole

autoimmune connection is interesting but we've just started chelation and were

wondering if, for any reason, you CAN'T do the two together - is it dangerous,

do the different drugs cancel each other out ....

Also, is there anyone whose child has an immune system that seems to work

overtime - ie, the child is NEVER sick?

Margaret

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Our daughter is never sick. But, if she gets sick it's something significant

like bronchitis, which she's had 3 times in her 4 years.

----- Original Message -----

From: MMacGregor@...

Also, is there anyone whose child has an immune system that seems to work

overtime - ie, the child is NEVER sick?

Margaret

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Hi

My son never run fever, got the flu, coughed ... He would have ear

infections and we would not know about it. 5 years into the

protocol, his immune system is responding the way it is supposed to.

Since my son is non-verbal and can't tell me when he is not well, the

fever alerts me to his sickness and I can ease up his pain.

As for chelation, it is a very dangerous procedure. I understand that

Houston Medical is the the best in the country for chelation and they do

it only if the child really really needs it.

MMacGregor@... wrote:

>Hi

>

>Is anyone out there chelating as well as following the protocol? The

>whole

>autoimmune connection is interesting but we've just started chelation and were

>wondering if, for any reason, you CAN'T do the two together - is it dangerous,

>do the different drugs cancel each other out ....

>

>Also, is there anyone whose child has an immune system that seems to work

>overtime - ie, the child is NEVER sick?

>

>Margaret

>

>

>

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Nearly all medical procedures are technique sensitive and have an a certain

level of risk, therefore can be " dangerous " if not supervised by an

experienced and knowledgeable doctor. Chelation requires very careful

monitoring of blood, liver and kidney function throughout the process.

As far as the best and most experienced, Dr. Amy Holmes and Dr. Jane El-Dahr

in Louisiana seem to be considered to be among the top practitioners in

mercury chelation with autistics. A lot of children have shown remarkable

improvement with this intervention. Unfortunately, their waiting lists are

REALLY long. I called Dr. Holmes' office and the next available appointment

is in April 2003.

We're seeing Jaquelyn McCandless who practices near Dr. Goldberg. In fact,

she mentioned his theories to me and that's why I'm lurking on this list.

Dr. McCandless tests and treats her patients for autoimmune disorders, but

also does chelation. However I don't know enough about , to say she's

following this protocol.

Regarding treating an autoimmune disorder and chelating simultaneously, as I

recall she said that we would have to first treat the autoimmunity problem

then consider whether chelation is still necessary. We just did the blood

tests today, so I don't even know yet if autoimmunity is the problem anyway.

In McCandless' recently released book, " Children with Starving Brains; A

Medical Treatment Guide for Autism Spectrum Disorder, " she mentions that a

lot of parents comment that their autistic child never gets sick. She

suggests that it might be because they have an ongoing low-grade chronic

infection that keeps the immune system on hyper alert.

HTH, Lynne

> As for chelation, it is a very dangerous procedure. I understand that

> Houston Medical is the the best in the country for chelation and they do

> it only if the child really really needs it.

>

>

> MMacGregor@... wrote:

>

>> Hi

>>

>> Is anyone out there chelating as well as following the protocol? The

>> whole

>> autoimmune connection is interesting but we've just started chelation and

>> were

>> wondering if, for any reason, you CAN'T do the two together - is it

>> dangerous,

>> do the different drugs cancel each other out ....

>>

>> Also, is there anyone whose child has an immune system that seems to work

>> overtime - ie, the child is NEVER sick?

>>

>> Margaret

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Dr. Goldberg won't treat a child who is being chelated. I'm not sure if he

will treat a child who was chelated in the past either. He believes it is

largely unnecessary except in rare cases and believes it is highly

dangerous. He says that chelation can have a very destructive effect on a

child and says that it can cause serious and perhaps even irreversible

damage. He says true heavy metal poisoning is very rare and should only be

chelated if diagnosed and recommended by a teaching hospital. So please

beware unless you are absolutely sure of what you are doing.

Stefanie

Chelation

Hi

Is anyone out there chelating as well as following the protocol? The

whole

autoimmune connection is interesting but we've just started chelation and

were

wondering if, for any reason, you CAN'T do the two together - is it

dangerous,

do the different drugs cancel each other out ....

Also, is there anyone whose child has an immune system that seems to work

overtime - ie, the child is NEVER sick?

Margaret

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Dear Margaret,

I almost hated to post this (see quotes below) as it will probably be quite

a shock to you, but I know you would like to know what Dr. Goldberg thinks.

You can read a lot about his opinions on chelation by going to his web site,

then to the conference area. You must register there (it's free) and then

you can view the " conference " area. Select " Ask Dr. Goldberg " and then

" search " and you can search for the word " chelation " . You can then view all

of the questions people have posted to Dr. Goldberg and his replies (click

" show entire topic " to see both the question and the answer at the same

time.)

I heard him say somewhere that he has had trouble getting the kids who have

been chelated to respond to his treatment because he thinks the chelation

may have done permanent damage to those children's brains. He calls

chelation a " disaster " for 99.9% of our kids.

Please review his comments. My child has had amazing results since seeing

Dr. G for the first time in January. I still can't quite believe the

progress... and Dr. Goldberg will NEVER do anything that he thinks could

possibly harm your child.

We all want so desperately to help our children... it's so hard to know what

is right. Best of luck.

Caroline

QUOTE FROM DR GOLDBERG...

" As I have stated many times, metal issues are NOT the primary problem in

these children, I have never advocated chelation, and in fact (see recent

postings, obtain audio tape from Long Beach talk in July via .net

website) chelation attempts are likely increasing brain toxicities for these

children, killing off brain cells, etc. The immune system is the key,

viruses, yeast, metal (??) and other metabolic issues are secondary factors,

NOT primary (again please obtain detailed, long discussion from audio tape).

I do not agree with Dr. Holmes - ?? how many ³normalized² children are out

there from chelation. . . ?? how many children are being harmed long term

from chelation, Secretin (please check recent patient comments that

Becks child and others who have done Secretin are now ³disasters²), etc.

There is no more logic supporting the role of heavy metals in your children,

than all the attempts to blame heavy metals for CFS / CFIDS in adults, and

many other ³unexplained² disorders in adults (and children).

This continues to be a very sad continuation of misinformation for all of

you Take care, MJG

this also from Dr. Goldberg...

" Note: IF chelation created a healthy child, able to now handle

yeast, secondary viruses, etc. there should be ³normal² children out there

from chelation ­ I have heard of some children ³functioning better² (sadly

in most a false, short term improvement) ­ I have not seen any significant

presentation or discussion of ³normalized² children. Rather, as I have

stated, science and clinical logic says chelation is more likely to kill-off

healthy brain cells, and my clinical experience is those children (who have

done chelation) and children who have done IV Secretin is generally very

negative. "

>On 7/9/02 6:17 PM, " MMacGregor@... " <MMacGregor@...> wrote:

> Hi

>

> Is anyone out there chelating as well as following the protocol? The

> whole

> autoimmune connection is interesting but we've just started chelation and were

> wondering if, for any reason, you CAN'T do the two together - is it dangerous,

> do the different drugs cancel each other out ....

>

> Also, is there anyone whose child has an immune system that seems to work

> overtime - ie, the child is NEVER sick?

>

> Margaret

>

>

>

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Chelation is very important if you have a child who has ingested lead. Other

than that there are no medical indications. It does not compliment the

protocol and in fact is potentially harmful. For parents that are being told

to consider chelation my first question would be is what are you being told

that you are removing? Kathy -NNY

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,

This is a re-post of something I posted a while ago...

I almost hated to post this (see quotes below) as it may be quite

a shock to you, but I know you would like to know what Dr. Goldberg thinks.

You can read a lot about his opinions on chelation by going to his web site,

then to the conference area. You must register there (it's free) and then

you can view the " conference " area. Select " Ask Dr. Goldberg " and then

" search " and you can search for the word " chelation " . You can then view all

of the questions people have posted to Dr. Goldberg and his replies (click

" show entire topic " to see both the question and the answer at the same

time.)

I heard him say somewhere that he has had trouble getting the kids who have

been chelated to respond to his treatment because he thinks the chelation

may have done permanent damage to those children's brains. He calls

chelation a " disaster " for 99.9% of our kids.

Please review his comments. My child has had amazing results since seeing

Dr. G for the first time in January. I still can't quite believe the

progress... and Dr. Goldberg will NEVER do anything that he thinks could

possibly harm your child.

We all want so desperately to help our children... it's so hard to know what

is right. Best of luck.

Caroline

QUOTE FROM DR GOLDBERG...

" As I have stated many times, metal issues are NOT the primary problem in

these children, I have never advocated chelation, and in fact (see recent

postings, obtain audio tape from Long Beach talk in July via .net

website) chelation attempts are likely increasing brain toxicities for these

children, killing off brain cells, etc. The immune system is the key,

viruses, yeast, metal (??) and other metabolic issues are secondary factors,

NOT primary (again please obtain detailed, long discussion from audio tape).

I do not agree with Dr. Holmes - ?? how many ³normalized² children are out

there from chelation. . . ?? how many children are being harmed long term

from chelation, Secretin (please check recent patient comments that

Becks child and others who have done Secretin are now ³disasters²), etc.

There is no more logic supporting the role of heavy metals in your children,

than all the attempts to blame heavy metals for CFS / CFIDS in adults, and

many other ³unexplained² disorders in adults (and children).

This continues to be a very sad continuation of misinformation for all of

you.

Take care, MJG

this also from Dr. Goldberg...

" Note: IF chelation created a healthy child, able to now handle

yeast, secondary viruses, etc. there should be ³normal² children out there

from chelation ­ I have heard of some children ³functioning better² (sadly

in most a false, short term improvement) ­ I have not seen any significant

presentation or discussion of ³normalized² children. Rather, as I have

stated, science and clinical logic says chelation is more likely to kill-off

healthy brain cells, and my clinical experience is those children (who have

done chelation) and children who have done IV Secretin is generally very

negative. "

>On 9/20/02 11:08 PM, " Fry " <mfry1@...> wrote:

> You can order the test through ImmunoSciences Lab through your doctor (our DAN

> doctor did this as part of a study). My daughter, very HFA, possibly

> Asperger's and darn near typical at this point, tested excessively positive

> even though she has been GFCF for over two years. DAN doctor wanted to chelate

> with DMSA, we decided instead to work on metallatheion (sp) processing to see

> if correcting a zinc/copper imbalance would help first. After that, we will

> clean up any residual metals with a short course of chelation and then go for

> a course of antivirals once her system has been cleaned up. (At least that's

> our plan so far).

>

> I figure we'll be going to doctors for YEARS and eventually will see everyone

> from DAN to to Pfeiffer and who knows who else. Any advice anyone?

>

>

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I'm sort of amazed at how the term chelation has been bandied about and I can

only think that there are a lot of misconceptions about what it actually is.

When you chelate you are parentally adding a chemical magnet, in a sense, to

the blood stream. The idea is that you are trying to attract the positive

ions of the substance to the positive ions of what you are using to form a

new substance which will precipitate out and excreted out through the

kidneys. Unfortunately you are risking kidney damage, and the excretion of

other electrolytes that are essential to normal body functioning. Calcium is

one of the bigger concerns. Most people think of calcium in terms of its role

in the skeletal system but it is also is essential in the transmission of

nerve impulses, regulates muscle contraction (normal heartbeat), blood

clotting, enzyme activation, and other chemical reactions. Seizures are not

an uncommon risk with chelation. Sudden death is also a risk. Chelation is a

procedure that requires careful monitoring of the electrolyte levels and is

done in settings where the appropriate kind of laboratory, and emergency

supports are readily available. Tragically Dr. Goldberg has found that

children who have undergone chelation do not have as positive a response to

the protocol as children who have not had it. Kathy on -NNY

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Hello Kathy,

> Seizures

are not

> an uncommon risk with chelation. Sudden death is also a risk.

Chelation is a

> procedure that requires careful monitoring of the electrolyte levels

and is

> done in settings where the appropriate kind of laboratory, and

emergency

> supports are readily available.

I'm not sure where you are getting this information from.

I think you are talking about " theoretical " risks, and are

not in contact with people undergoing chelation.

I DO think there are risks to chelation, and that the risks

are MUCH greater depending upon the methods (dose and schedule)

used. And one must use appropriate chelation agents, and

eliminate current exposures, and so on.

But let me get to the point: the common negative effects of

chelation in ASD kids are stuff like yeast flare-ups, runny

noses, and some increase in ASD symptoms [at **some** parts

of the chelation cycle]. Some COMMON positive effects are

reduced ASD symptoms, increased in social relating, increase

in language & understanding.

We are discussing a therapy that has made a substantial

positive difference for MANY children (and adults FWIW).

best wishes,

Moria

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Jerri,

My recent post " neuroimmune discussion " had plenty of supporting info, here is

another recently published study:

Curr Med Chem. 2003 Aug;10(16):1581-91. Related Articles, Links

Interferon-gamma-induced conversion of tryptophan: immunologic and

neuropsychiatric aspects.

Wirleitner B, Neurauter G, Schrocksnadel K, Frick B, Fuchs D.

Institute of Medical Chemistry and Biochemistry, University of Innsbruck, and

Ludwig Boltzmann Institute of AIDS Research, Fritz-Pregl-Strasse 3, A-6020

Innsbruck, Austria.

Tryptophan is an essential amino acid and the least abundant constituent of

proteins. In parallel it represents a source for two important biochemical

pathways: the generation of neurotransmitter 5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin) by

the tetrahydrobiopterin-dependent tryptophan 5-hydroxylase, and the formation of

kynurenine derivatives and nicotinamide adenine dinucleotides initiated by the

enzymes tryptophan pyrrolase (tryptophan 2,3-dioxygenase, TDO) and indoleamine

2,3-dioxygenase (IDO). Whereas TDO is located in the liver cells, IDO is

expressed in a large variety of cells and is inducible by the cytokine

interferon-gamma. Therefore, accelerated tryptophan degradation is observed in

diseases and disorders concomitant with cellular immune activation, e. g.

infectious, autoimmune, and malignant diseases, as well as during pregnancy.

According to the cytostatic and antiproliferative properties of

tryptophan-depletion on T lymphocytes, activated T-helper type 1 (Th-1) cells

may down-regulate immune response via degradation of tryptophan. Especially in

states of persistent immune activation availability of free serum tryptophan is

diminished and as a consequence of reduced serotonin production, serotonergic

functions may as well be affected. Accumulation of neuroactive kynurenine

metabolites such as quinolinic acid may contribute to the development of

neurologic/psychiatric disorders. Thus, IDO seems to represent a link between

the immunological network and neuroendocrine functions with far reaching

consequences in regard to the psychological status of patients. These

observations provide a basis for the better understanding of mood disorder and

related symptoms in chronic diseases.

PMID: 12871129 [PubMed - in process]

Jon.

Chelation

I don't know if you guys read the ME-LIST, an email group discussing

ABA, but they have been discussing the amazing benefits from Chelation.

I remember reading here that sometimes people see benefits from some

form of help to the immune system. I wanted to post this info. to the

me-list. And maybe infor about Dr. G again.

Some posters did refer people to quackwatch.com but I know if people are

seeing benefits they don't care about the distractors, so if I could show them

the plausible reason for the success and tell them about Goldberg. Does anyone

know

where the info was on that/ Thanks, Jerri

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Jerri,

I found this one from Cheryl... was that it (see below) ?

----------

Hi ,

Succimer is DMSA, which many are using for what they feel is a mercury

problem. ALA is something else that's in use, although I saw at least one

study that seemed to indicate it could actually make a non-toxic mercury

level, toxic.

The second abstract raised the question of a problem with chelating itself.

That's the concern that I've heard expressed before.

What is interesting, is that many other disorders that were thought to be

caused by metals, are now being connected with viral, retroviral,

inflammation, autoimmunity and certain genetic susceptabilities. Levels

could increase due to the metabolic processes that decrease when there's

immune activation.

Don't forget that certain HLA types are connected with immune/autoimmune

disorders and autism has been connected to some of the same HLA genes.

There's also the neurotrophins that were elevated at birth, prior to any

immunizations. The evidence seems to be pointing more towards the immune

system, rather than one specific trigger or immune stressor.

Cheryl

----Original Message Follows----

From: " LucyLynn " <lucylynn@...>

Reply-

< >

Subject: Chealating for mercury (Cheryl B)

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 18:17:13 -0800

>Hi Cheryl,

>Thanks for responding. Do you know if the drug SUCCMIR is specific to lead

>chelating or is that the only method of chelating available. Would there be

>a different method for the mercury they are suspecting might be the problem

>with many of the kids?

>I found it interesting that mercury causes immune dysfunction and many of

>the symptoms we see in our kids. Are there any studies anyone knows of

>where they have dealt with therimerisol (sp?) toxicity? Just curious.

>Thanks,

>

============

On 9/3/03 1:31 PM, " Jerri and Nick Gann " <njgann@...> wrote:

> I don't know if you guys read the ME-LIST, an email group discussing

> ABA, but they have been discussing the amazing benefits from Chelation.

> I remember reading here that sometimes people see benefits from some

> form of help to the immune system. I wanted to post this info. to the

> me-list. And maybe infor about Dr. G again.

>

> Some posters did refer people to quackwatch.com but I know if people are

> seeing benefits they don't care about the distractors, so if I could show them

> the plausible reason for the success and tell them about Goldberg. Does anyone

> know

> where the info was on that/ Thanks, Jerri

______________________________

``````````````````````````````

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

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Some kids regress without chelating. Just a point. Kathy

chelation

Thanks Caroline I posted this on the Me-list. I hope it helps some people. I

think Dr. Rimland is a great person but his organization is sure pointing

everyone towards chelating. I keep hearing the improvements only work for a

little while, which makes sense if this is a regressive disease and you have not

addressed the main problem.

____________________________________

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Exactly--- how can chelation work in the long term if you don't improve the

body's ability to self-detox in the first place? Lets face it, we live in a

toxic world, we're all exposed to metals and chemicals our entire lives--

what keeps chelated kids from accumulating the same toxins all over again???

I've always wondered the thinking behind this......

Becky

Re: Chelation

>

> Jerri,

>

> I found this one from Cheryl... was that it (see below) ?

>

> ----------

> _________________________________________________________________

>

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Jerri,

Glad to help... I hope the post helps someone too (thanks, Cheryl!). I just

wanted to comment that although we have seen some great " AHA! " improvements

with 2 meds (Celexa and Nizoral), the other meds have given us slow, steady

progress. It has been fascinating watching my son move through

developmental phases at ages 6, 7, and 8 that I am watching his younger

brother move through at ages 2 and 3.

The first year and a half on the protocol was full of ups and downs as

we moved through the different meds... working through the SSRIs was the

most trying part. Now that we have tried all four SSRIs, we are still

making other adjustments, but this year we are to the point where my son is

VERY stable. He is not recovered yet and we have more meds to try, but he

is doing pretty well. The " off " days are basically gone. I was so thrilled

the other day when his teacher was telling me that he really does well in

class most of the time, then gave me a funny look and said " It (meaning the

PDD) must be REALLY mild! " . Oh, I could tell her some stories... but I

don't think I will.

Best of luck!

Caroline

> On 9/5/03 11:45 AM, " Jerri and Nick Gann " <njgann@...> wrote:

> Thanks Caroline I posted this on the Me-list. I hope it helps some people. I

> think Dr. Rimland is a great person but his organization is sure pointing

> everyone towards chelating. I keep hearing the improvements only work for a

> little while, which makes sense if this is a regressive disease and you have

> not addressed the main problem. I am so thankful to have found Dr. G before

> doing any of the other things I was reading about. I was a little disappointed

> at first in not seeing great improvements (with Dr. G)but also realized how

> great it was to not have regression. He is really coming a long way. We have

> ten steps forward and five back sometimes but he has never gotten worse nor

> lost skills. Anyway thanks again. I really enjoy reading everyone posts on

> this list. respond. Thanks to all of you that consistantly do that. Jerri

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In a message dated 9/5/03 11:59:19 AM Central Daylight Time,

njgann@... writes:

> I keep hearing the improvements only work for a little while>>

Where, besides from Dr. G, have you heard this? Just curious.

Gaylen

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In a message dated 9/5/03 8:33:56 PM Central Daylight Time,

beckeric@... writes:

> how can chelation work in the long term if you don't improve the

> body's ability to self-detox in the first place? >>

Good question and one that could also be asked for many of the other immune

system aggravators that seem to be affecting so many kids. If you just address

one area, you do help the overall body but then when the treatment is removed

and the body isn't better balanced, you could relapse. However, I would

imagine that as you address several aggravators, the body's burden is lifted and

thus can function better on its own (including fighting viruses and other

pathogens, detoxifying, absorbing nutrition, etc).

> Lets face it, we live in a toxic world, we're all exposed to metals and

> chemicals our entire lives-- what keeps chelated kids from accumulating the

same

> toxins all over again???

>

Along the same lines, what keeps a viral affected kid from having the same or

another virus attack his body all over again if you remove the viral

supressors? Just wondering :).

Gaylen

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Bill Walsh at the Preiffer treatment centre is a firm believer in mercury

toxicity in autism (when last I looked) but is not a proponent of chelation; his

approach is to try to promote the natural toxic metal binding metallothionein

biosynthesis. His intention is that the results can be better sustained by this

method. I'm not pushing it but responding the point made below.

Jon.

> how can chelation work in the long term if you don't improve the

> body's ability to self-detox in the first place? >>

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Dear Jon,

Would you mind explaining to me what the following means?

>>>his approach is to try to promote the natural toxic metal binding

metallothionein biosynthesis.<<< How would one go about doing this? Thank you,

Re: chelation

Bill Walsh at the Preiffer treatment centre is a firm believer in mercury

toxicity in autism (when last I looked) but is not a proponent of chelation; his

approach is to try to promote the natural toxic metal binding metallothionein

biosynthesis. His intention is that the results can be better sustained by this

method. I'm not pushing it but responding the point made below.

Jon.

> how can chelation work in the long term if you don't improve the

> body's ability to self-detox in the first place? >>

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