1. Human growth hormone, 2. Island dwarfing 3. concentration camps/eugenics

[Guest guest]

1. HGH

Kim's mom posted a question about human growth hormone. In my more

politicized days, I was adamently against the idea of " curing " hormonal

dwarfism with

HGH treatment and only partially because it involved giving a kid daily

shots. I served on the board of the Human Growth Foundation (as my ave. ht.

mom

had done before me - back in the 1970s when she had the urge to get involved

in the dwarf community, AH parents couldn't do much in leadership in LPA, so

she went to HGF, where Lee Kitchens and others were also involved) I was

involved with HGF from mid 1980's to early 1990's. It was eye-opening to get

to

know families of kids with HGH deficiency and s Syndrome that were

being treated. I still don't know what I'd do if I had a kid with HGH

deficiency, but I'd certainly think about it. One thing I hadn't realized was

that

for some kids with HGH deficiency, the HGH is needed for them to actually be

healthy, it's more than just height that they are getting from the HGH. Again

I don't know what I'd do. Six or seven years ago my son Jani and I were

visiting a friend and another kid was staying with them and he was on growth

hormone because of an earlier medical problem that had impaired his growth (and

he was a twin). He stayed overnight at the friend's house and needed someone

to give him his injection (with a trigger injector thing that's easier than a

regular syringe) and I did it. I didn't do it well, but he was forgiving.

I hate needles. But philosophically, I couldn't believe that I was a party

to this. But he and his family had made a decision and I respected it. The

good thing in that case was that he was 10 or something so he could be part of

the decision, which isn't usually the case, the kids are younger. If the

kid is much younger, as Kim is, and as long as she doesn't need hormone

treatments to be healthy, medically, I'd suggest going with your gut, what is

right

for your family. If she feels strongly about it when she's 10, or old enough

to have a reasoned opinion, you can revisit it, although some growth would

have been lost.

More resources on HGH can be found with the Human Growth Foundation

_www.hgfound.org_ (http://www.hgfound.org)

and the Magic Foundation. _www.magicfoundation.org_

(http://www.magicfoundation.org)

I know very few people in HGF now (it's more generational than LPA, as the

kids grow up the families are less involved) but the moms that started the

Magic Foundation are still running it (long story, but let's just say LPA isn't

the only organization with nutty politics, it's actually pretty normal in

non-profits in my experience)

2. Water buffalo - Latest example of " island dwarfing " , where a species

evolves to a small size to fit its habitat, the dwarf-friendly side of

Darwinism

let's say

_http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/science/17buff.html?ex=1318737600 & en=4e146f

368838feed & ei=5088 & partner=rssnyt & emc=rss_

(http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/science/17buff.html?ex=1318737600 & en=4e146f36\

8838feed & ei=5088 & partner=rssnyt & e

mc=rss)

3. North Korea today - not so dwarf friendly Darwinism at work - dwarfs and

others with disabilities sent to gulags and not allowed to have kids (as if

you'd want to bring new life into a concentration camp). Of course this

happened last century in Germany and Third Reich eugenics was copied from

highly

respected US policies ...

_http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/21/wnkorea121.xml_

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml

?xml=/news/2006/10/21/wnkorea121.xml)

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to raise a few questions about the N. Korean eugenics

and the situation in our own country regarding the somewhat less

sytematic removal of people with disabilities and dwarfs from our

society.

North Korea is explicit and coercive in its agenda to " purify " the

gene pool of people w/ disabilities (PWDs) and it definitely conjures

images of Hitler's sterilization hospitals and, eventually, death

camps.

Many people believe that the U.S. is amidst a more subtle, voluntary

revolution of " backdoor eugenics. " That is, genetic screening is

becoming cheaper and more easily available and many people are

choosing to not have babies that have some type of " defect, " whether

physical like dwarfism or cognitive like Downes Syndrom.

The methods are very different between N. Korea and the U.S.

However, we have to aknowledge that the motivations and the end

results are the same.

We have to ask: what makes eugenics wrong? Is it the end of removing

PWDs from society or is it the means? Is it both?

Are backdoor eugenics morally acceptable or less wrong because they

are not state imposed and are not coercive? Or, is it the goal of

removing PWDs from society that is itself an evil?

Are all disabilities created equal or are there some disabilities

that are so painfilled that it may be acceptable to avoid them

through non-coercive means?

Just some food for thought on an issue that i am very interested in.

>

> 1. HGH

> Kim's mom posted a question about human growth hormone. In my more

> politicized days, I was adamently against the idea of " curing "

hormonal dwarfism with

> HGH treatment and only partially because it involved giving a kid

daily

> shots. I served on the board of the Human Growth Foundation (as my

ave. ht. mom

> had done before me - back in the 1970s when she had the urge to get

involved

> in the dwarf community, AH parents couldn't do much in leadership in

LPA, so

> she went to HGF, where Lee Kitchens and others were also involved)

I was

> involved with HGF from mid 1980's to early 1990's. It was

eye-opening to get to

> know families of kids with HGH deficiency and s Syndrome that

were

> being treated. I still don't know what I'd do if I had a kid with HGH

> deficiency, but I'd certainly think about it. One thing I hadn't

realized was that

> for some kids with HGH deficiency, the HGH is needed for them to

actually be

> healthy, it's more than just height that they are getting from the

HGH. Again

> I don't know what I'd do. Six or seven years ago my son Jani and I

were

> visiting a friend and another kid was staying with them and he was

on growth

> hormone because of an earlier medical problem that had impaired his

growth (and

> he was a twin). He stayed overnight at the friend's house and

needed someone

> to give him his injection (with a trigger injector thing that's

easier than a

> regular syringe) and I did it. I didn't do it well, but he was

forgiving.

> I hate needles. But philosophically, I couldn't believe that I was

a party

> to this. But he and his family had made a decision and I respected

it. The

> good thing in that case was that he was 10 or something so he could

be part of

> the decision, which isn't usually the case, the kids are younger.

If the

> kid is much younger, as Kim is, and as long as she doesn't need

hormone

> treatments to be healthy, medically, I'd suggest going with your

gut, what is right

> for your family. If she feels strongly about it when she's 10, or

old enough

> to have a reasoned opinion, you can revisit it, although some

growth would

> have been lost.

> More resources on HGH can be found with the Human Growth Foundation

> _www.hgfound.org_ (http://www.hgfound.org)

> and the Magic Foundation. _www.magicfoundation.org_

> (http://www.magicfoundation.org)

> I know very few people in HGF now (it's more generational than LPA,

as the

> kids grow up the families are less involved) but the moms that

started the

> Magic Foundation are still running it (long story, but let's just

say LPA isn't

> the only organization with nutty politics, it's actually pretty

normal in

> non-profits in my experience)

>

> 2. Water buffalo - Latest example of " island dwarfing " , where a

species

> evolves to a small size to fit its habitat, the dwarf-friendly side

of Darwinism

> let's say

>

_http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/science/17buff.html?ex=1318737600 & en=4e146f

> 368838feed & ei=5088 & partner=rssnyt & emc=rss_

>

(http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/science/17buff.html?ex=1318737600 & en=4e146f36\

8838feed & ei=5088 & partner=rssnyt & e

> mc=rss)

>

>

> 3. North Korea today - not so dwarf friendly Darwinism at work -

dwarfs and

> others with disabilities sent to gulags and not allowed to have

kids (as if

> you'd want to bring new life into a concentration camp). Of course

this

> happened last century in Germany and Third Reich eugenics was

copied from highly

> respected US policies ...

>

>

_http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/21/wnkorea121.xml_

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml

> ?xml=/news/2006/10/21/wnkorea121.xml)

>

>

>

>

>