A Rush to Medicate Young Minds

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing miminm. I can understand your position better

now. Lack of sleep can have devasting effects and in order for you to

be able to take care of your son, you need to be healthy. I'll try to

be as supportive as I can via this forum so feel free to unload.

Please try to focus on what CAN be accomplished, even though it's up

hill battle with the selfish Ex & GF.

I get one question from my therapist after telling her what is going

on in my life. Who takes care of Kim? If I asked you the same

question, would you reply as I did?. Miminm takes care of Miminm. Do

you get support from others? I wish you to have much progress with

your son but anger fuels determination only so far, the fire can't

last forever. Don't let that fire burn you out, ok.

Kim

>

> yes I am angry impassioned determined, perhaps foolish and naive to

> think that I can do everything on my own....

[Guest guest]

I am sorry you are going through so much and sorry that you have

been through so much. Many of us have suffered greatly and keep

this to ourselves. Some of us even appear to have had incredible

childhoods because we appear to be so well adjusted as adults. One

can never assume anything of another person.

Even with Aspies, I have been misinterpreted and painted ugly all

because assumptions were used to misunderstand me rather than ask me

directly in order to understand me. This is life. I can either

succumb to the discrimination even with my own kind (Aspies) or I

can choose to understand that who I am is difficult for even Aspies

to understand and this is due in part to my cultural background

(Aboriginal ancestry).

miminm wrote: " The gf is in an active role to prove herself

better. Whatever on the one hand but not with my child as the toy.

For her own selfish reasons she makes him some kind of prize. "

This is where I have some difficulty understanding the problem with

your ex's girlfriend. If he only has four hours per month with your

son, how much influence can she have over him during that time?

miminm wrote: " Ex and gf got pregnant right after he left. She

aborted (insisting all the while that she loved children and wanted

nothing more than to be a wife and mother) Yet she ended the

pregnancy because she couldn't tell her father that she was preg.

She made the decision but chanted to my ex. " you made me kill my

baby) BTW if that is NT UMM no thank you! "

You cannot blame this entirely on the girlfriend or on NT

behaviour. You said your ex is also AS and he did not stop his

girlfriend from aborting. It is negligent behaviour (to have gotten

pregnant and then to have aborted) on both their parts.

miminm wrote: " I am not jealous I hate what she stands for. She

has displayed selfishness, disregard, Negetive parenting skills and

the ability to put her desires over the needs of a child (she told

ex they could break up but he could never reconsile with me, and she

put a picture of her dog in his office and said that was their

child). "

With only four hours per month, she is not exercising parenting

skills but socialization skills. While you hate what she stands

for, you have to understand that even by law, your child is nothing

to her. She is not your ex's wife; she is his girlfriend. Also, if

your ex is willing to allow her to blackmail him, that is his

choice. She has no say on whether he decides to reconcile with you

just as you have no say on whether he decides to marry her. And a

person who knows they do not want to have a child is a wise person

because it means that an innocent child will not have to suffer

through someone who knows intrinsically they would be a poor parent.

miminm wrote: " In addition all the while telling my ex that I am a

no good dirty arab and that he should take custody from me. "

First off, your ex would not get custody of your child based on your

ethnic or cultural background so I hope you know that this threat is

an empty threat.

Secondly, it is wrong for anyone to speak poorly of another because

of their ethnic or cultural background. That being said, if she

ever says something like that to your son and you can provide the

courts with proof, you can petition to have her removed and barred

from participating in visits between your ex and your son. The

reason would be " Alienation of Affection Towards A Parent. "

miminm wrote: " I know I haven't said all that before I just thought

the facts I revealed made sense. But none of you know me. "

The more facts with which you provide someone, the more they are

able to understand you.

miminm wrote: " Like Tom I had less than stellar parents. Family

members made sexual advances on me ... <snip> ... "

Many of us have had traumas in our lives and some of us have had

childhoods filled with traumas that no one could begin to imagine.

Life was never meant to be fair. It is what it is and you move

forward from there.

miminm wrote: " I view all these people as idiots idiots that can

negativly impact my son by accident woopsie. No biggie for them.

And I guess i took abuse but I won't allow it dished onto a child. "

Anyone and anything can impact negatively on a person. The trick

here is to continue helping your son learn to advocate for himself

and to learn coping strategies and techniques that work for him so

he does not have to suffer too greatly at the hands of those who do

not understand how he thinks and perceives and feels. It is noble

of you to fight on behalf of your son and to protect him as best you

can.

miminm wrote: " I am sorry for my outbursts. No one life is simple

or even as it may seem. when I was a teen I wanted to be a

scientist, instead i became many things. wife mother therapist,

worker bee "

No need to apologize for speaking from the heart. And perhaps you

did not become a scientist, but you became something even more

important ... you became your son's mother ... and advocate and

friend and mentor and teacher and so much more. :-)

Raven

[Guest guest]

I am sorry you are going through so much and sorry that you have

been through so much. Many of us have suffered greatly and keep

this to ourselves. Some of us even appear to have had incredible

childhoods because we appear to be so well adjusted as adults. One

can never assume anything of another person.

Even with Aspies, I have been misinterpreted and painted ugly all

because assumptions were used to misunderstand me rather than ask me

directly in order to understand me. This is life. I can either

succumb to the discrimination even with my own kind (Aspies) or I

can choose to understand that who I am is difficult for even Aspies

to understand and this is due in part to my cultural background

(Aboriginal ancestry).

miminm wrote: " The gf is in an active role to prove herself

better. Whatever on the one hand but not with my child as the toy.

For her own selfish reasons she makes him some kind of prize. "

This is where I have some difficulty understanding the problem with

your ex's girlfriend. If he only has four hours per month with your

son, how much influence can she have over him during that time?

miminm wrote: " Ex and gf got pregnant right after he left. She

aborted (insisting all the while that she loved children and wanted

nothing more than to be a wife and mother) Yet she ended the

pregnancy because she couldn't tell her father that she was preg.

She made the decision but chanted to my ex. " you made me kill my

baby) BTW if that is NT UMM no thank you! "

You cannot blame this entirely on the girlfriend or on NT

behaviour. You said your ex is also AS and he did not stop his

girlfriend from aborting. It is negligent behaviour (to have gotten

pregnant and then to have aborted) on both their parts.

miminm wrote: " I am not jealous I hate what she stands for. She

has displayed selfishness, disregard, Negetive parenting skills and

the ability to put her desires over the needs of a child (she told

ex they could break up but he could never reconsile with me, and she

put a picture of her dog in his office and said that was their

child). "

With only four hours per month, she is not exercising parenting

skills but socialization skills. While you hate what she stands

for, you have to understand that even by law, your child is nothing

to her. She is not your ex's wife; she is his girlfriend. Also, if

your ex is willing to allow her to blackmail him, that is his

choice. She has no say on whether he decides to reconcile with you

just as you have no say on whether he decides to marry her. And a

person who knows they do not want to have a child is a wise person

because it means that an innocent child will not have to suffer

through someone who knows intrinsically they would be a poor parent.

miminm wrote: " In addition all the while telling my ex that I am a

no good dirty arab and that he should take custody from me. "

First off, your ex would not get custody of your child based on your

ethnic or cultural background so I hope you know that this threat is

an empty threat.

Secondly, it is wrong for anyone to speak poorly of another because

of their ethnic or cultural background. That being said, if she

ever says something like that to your son and you can provide the

courts with proof, you can petition to have her removed and barred

from participating in visits between your ex and your son. The

reason would be " Alienation of Affection Towards A Parent. "

miminm wrote: " I know I haven't said all that before I just thought

the facts I revealed made sense. But none of you know me. "

The more facts with which you provide someone, the more they are

able to understand you.

miminm wrote: " Like Tom I had less than stellar parents. Family

members made sexual advances on me ... <snip> ... "

Many of us have had traumas in our lives and some of us have had

childhoods filled with traumas that no one could begin to imagine.

Life was never meant to be fair. It is what it is and you move

forward from there.

miminm wrote: " I view all these people as idiots idiots that can

negativly impact my son by accident woopsie. No biggie for them.

And I guess i took abuse but I won't allow it dished onto a child. "

Anyone and anything can impact negatively on a person. The trick

here is to continue helping your son learn to advocate for himself

and to learn coping strategies and techniques that work for him so

he does not have to suffer too greatly at the hands of those who do

not understand how he thinks and perceives and feels. It is noble

of you to fight on behalf of your son and to protect him as best you

can.

miminm wrote: " I am sorry for my outbursts. No one life is simple

or even as it may seem. when I was a teen I wanted to be a

scientist, instead i became many things. wife mother therapist,

worker bee "

No need to apologize for speaking from the heart. And perhaps you

did not become a scientist, but you became something even more

important ... you became your son's mother ... and advocate and

friend and mentor and teacher and so much more. :-)

Raven

[Guest guest]

> I think Raven's only stated what she believes is true from your

> previous posts and why do you think she feels guilty.

>

No, my implication is that her decision was to easy to medicate. I

didn't mean that and I hoped only to state that it was a careful

decision. I was not saying all. I was actually thinking of the lazy

parent who just wants medication to make it all go away. I know of

those people

>

>

>

> > Damned, dx's damned neurotixins, damned arrogance

> > that allows a superiority that believes that humanity needs

> > nothing.

>

>

> Are you grouping society as a whole or is it just your anger in

the

> supposition that the majority are ignorant of the big picture?

>

well the latter, people make decisions that effect many lives and

they make that choice knowing the resulting pain yet just covering

their ass. Politician speak

>

I know that singular issues seem simple when in reality a web is

really the result. Sci-fi is fraught with that concept. This tiny

thing here brought down a civilization there. Cause effect.

Honesty has worked for me. I actuality tell ex look you can do what

you like but this is whay I am doing this or I plan to say this in

court, I expect the facts to support themselves. Facts tend not to

be enough because the court system expects lying, because I don't I

look like I am making something out of nothing. I have gotten this

far by consistantly explaining myself until my reasons make the

sense I had hoped they would. I seem to still not get it quite

right.

[Guest guest]

> I think Raven's only stated what she believes is true from your

> previous posts and why do you think she feels guilty.

>

No, my implication is that her decision was to easy to medicate. I

didn't mean that and I hoped only to state that it was a careful

decision. I was not saying all. I was actually thinking of the lazy

parent who just wants medication to make it all go away. I know of

those people

>

>

>

> > Damned, dx's damned neurotixins, damned arrogance

> > that allows a superiority that believes that humanity needs

> > nothing.

>

>

> Are you grouping society as a whole or is it just your anger in

the

> supposition that the majority are ignorant of the big picture?

>

well the latter, people make decisions that effect many lives and

they make that choice knowing the resulting pain yet just covering

their ass. Politician speak

>

I know that singular issues seem simple when in reality a web is

really the result. Sci-fi is fraught with that concept. This tiny

thing here brought down a civilization there. Cause effect.

Honesty has worked for me. I actuality tell ex look you can do what

you like but this is whay I am doing this or I plan to say this in

court, I expect the facts to support themselves. Facts tend not to

be enough because the court system expects lying, because I don't I

look like I am making something out of nothing. I have gotten this

far by consistantly explaining myself until my reasons make the

sense I had hoped they would. I seem to still not get it quite

right.

[Guest guest]

well my answer may not really be shocking mimi takes care of others

to take care of mimi. But I actuality have an NT bf. My own

diagnosis was self made. I do plan to go to a study at mclean

hospital for families of autistic children and aspergers. They said

they wouldn't ofically dx but would tell me of their finding

regarding myself. I do feel better knowing that all that time I

felt different and that I didn't fit in and that perhaps an alien

race had left me here were true. Just joking. although I did have

a former employer that said your homeworld has called they want

their queen back. i would routinely freak him out by making no sond

and handing him what he was just about to ask me for. mimi is far

better at non-verbal communication. worker bee. I make things. not

anymore. but furniture, clothing quilting,finish carpentry, tiling,

crochet. My son sort of ended all that also I had to stop workin 70

hrs a week. well anyway. this helped a lot

I have been feeling threatened by stupidity threatening what I

wanted to accomplish. Much of what was said is true. I have to

make it ok for me. No one else can do it since my brain has to work

it out. I do get to sleep now so don't feel bad for me on that

front. Look I know we all suffer fools in our lives on a regular

basis. ex's, co-workers, anyone not in your car when you are

driving. It for me is just far more real when those people are

seting their sight on children. Look fight me, it will hurt less

[Guest guest]

well my answer may not really be shocking mimi takes care of others

to take care of mimi. But I actuality have an NT bf. My own

diagnosis was self made. I do plan to go to a study at mclean

hospital for families of autistic children and aspergers. They said

they wouldn't ofically dx but would tell me of their finding

regarding myself. I do feel better knowing that all that time I

felt different and that I didn't fit in and that perhaps an alien

race had left me here were true. Just joking. although I did have

a former employer that said your homeworld has called they want

their queen back. i would routinely freak him out by making no sond

and handing him what he was just about to ask me for. mimi is far

better at non-verbal communication. worker bee. I make things. not

anymore. but furniture, clothing quilting,finish carpentry, tiling,

crochet. My son sort of ended all that also I had to stop workin 70

hrs a week. well anyway. this helped a lot

I have been feeling threatened by stupidity threatening what I

wanted to accomplish. Much of what was said is true. I have to

make it ok for me. No one else can do it since my brain has to work

it out. I do get to sleep now so don't feel bad for me on that

front. Look I know we all suffer fools in our lives on a regular

basis. ex's, co-workers, anyone not in your car when you are

driving. It for me is just far more real when those people are

seting their sight on children. Look fight me, it will hurt less

[Guest guest]

" But what a person does when they feel this way is a choice. Did you

seek counseling for your hurt, anger, and suffering? "

It was a pile up of things over the course of a lifetime. I finally

did seek counseling during and after the divorce. The counseling

after the divorce lasted 4 or 5 years or so.

" Was this not something you had control over? "

I had control over the counseling, but I never felt that I had

actual control over my life. Things kept happening that didn't seem

to happen to other people that kept me feeling like I could never

get ahead and that people are walling me off at every opportunity.

We rarely ever get phone calls at my house for example. But it

happens once or twice a week that they come in EXACTLY when I am

trying to get online (we have dial up and only one phone line.) The

times that I sign on are random, 10:00 AM, 11:13 PM, 1:21 in the

morning. And all these times I have gotten random phone calls JUST

as the modem makes its dialing noise. Usually they are " wrong

numbers " but a couple of times I have had calls from a friend of the

family who called, but then forgot what it was he wanted to say and

hung up.

I've done thingas like take off to work to get special errands done

only to have the store be closed due to a freak power outage. I've

tried to call up my broker one time to do trades when I " have a

feeling " that the market is going to do something...and their

computer system was down and I missed the opportunity because of it.

There was this time that I had to race to the hospital to help my

grandmother through an emergency admittance, and there was a cement

truck stalled on one end of the block, blocking the intersection and

a bunch of guys cutting down a tree on the other. I had to drive

over the grass to get out, and when I did, I got held up by a

traffic jam caused by a train that hit a car.

I just don't notice these things happening to other people with the

same frequency that they happen to me.

How many times have YOU called up a friend's house expecting to hear

his/her voice on the other end of the line and heard:

" He's dead. Fell off a cliff while mountain climbing. "

" He's dead, tuimbled over the edge at Devil's Lake State Park. "

" He's dead. The cancer finally got him. "

" He's dead. Hung himself in his basement. "

" She's dead. Blew her head off with a firework. "

" She's dead. Cancer got her. "

" He's dead. Threw himself off a bridge. "

Keep in mind that all these people were at one time my BEST friends.

Currently, my one best MALE friend seems to be having medical

problems as well.

I've tried to counter-balance these events by simplifying my life,

but all that has happened as a result is that external society seems

to have become more invasive.

I keep my monetary affairs in order, but then this random posting

kept appearing in my account. It was somebody's social security

payment. I called the bank up and told them it was not mine. They

said they would reverse it out. Instead, the doubled not just the

amount of the posts, but the number of them too. It took three

months to get the problem resolved.

I take the mail in each day at our house.

But when my parents go on vacation, THAT is when everyone else's

mail but our gets delivered to their mailbox. I don't make extra

trips to the post office to give back the incorrect letters when

they are here. But when they go on vacation, suddenly it happens all

the time.

In short, not a week goes by where someone doesn't bug me for

something, or I have to solve problems I didn't ask for, or I have

to solve problems that aren't mine.

" My computer isn't working. can you fix it? " seemed to be a mantra

my parents have.

As I watch people older than my parents buy computers without ever

having used one before and intuitively grasp how to use them without

assistance, my parents have owned a PC for five years now and still

ask me how to do copy and paste operations within documents even

though they both use the PC for word processing and spreadsheet

operations all day everday for five years. I cannot tell you how

annoying it is to be working at my paintings trying to paint a

miniscule thin line, one millimeter long line and having someone

shout at the top of their lungs " TOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!! CAN

YOU HELP ME COPY AND PASTE THIS THING?????????? "

" We can not change other people, influence maybe, but must take

responsibility for our own behavior. "

At this point I think I am doing an excellent job of not strangling

everyone who crosses my path. I cannot even write a post without

being interupted these days.

I get the feeling that everyone thinks they are more important than

me, and the few times I have actually done what my counselor has

suggested (Think of myself for a change) my attempts get squashed

before they can get off the ground or I am accused of being selfish.

The first vacation I ever took alone I took when I was thrity

because every time I had tried before then to go anywhere, there was

an emeregency that prevented my going. One of them happened when I

was walking out the door with my bags. When that happened, I thought

to myself, " Now should I be selfish and go? Or should I stay. "

I really, really REALLY wanted to go, but I stayed anyway.

" I went through some rough s**t too and blamed others when I was

angry. "

It's only been through counseling where I learned to do that. She

told me to put the blame squarely where it was due: On the people

that cause the problems in the first place, and if they hate you,

that's THEIR problem. Better they hate you than walk all over you.

" I thought if they could only see it my way, I could make them do it

my way (what I think is logical) things would get better. Well,

nobody did and nobody was going to! "

Yes. That is why I am depressed. In addition to other people not

helping me with my problems, I wind up having to help other people

with theirs, AND keep their errors and negligence from messing

things up for me. It really is depressing and it never seems to end.

" I had to make the change not in who I am but how I dealt with the

events occuring in my life. "

Tried that. Didn't work.

Even did a career change.

Attempted suicide was the best and most enjoyable thing I ever did,

although I would not recommend it as a solution for everyone.

Short of people (mostly those in my physical proximity at home and

around town) taking chare of their own business and leaving me out

of their problems, I can think of no other way that I can be happy

at present.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

I did watch the X-Files whenever I had a chance, saw the movie and am still waiting for a new season to show up although it probably will not happen. Dark Web? What's that? Of course the C.I.A. and other agencies are worth keeping because of their knowledge. I just threw the Freemasons out there as an example, nothing to take seriously. I mean, there are dozens, maybe hundreds of so-named secret organizations who have some standing somewhere. I figure everyone here is smart enough to know that the freemasons theory is no good. Dear Lord, what did I get myself into. I basically stated I don't really know how the gov't works and that it's open to interpretation which is why some EX-navy seals write mystery novels about secret gov't missions. I'm also saying that education in America is a detriment to learning and not a tool to make the national security stronger other than the rotten theory of getting more money from taxes and addictions. Kim <6emini@...> wrote: Were you a fan of The X Files series Nick? I think you may give the American government too much credit. C.I.A., F.B.I., and the N.S.A. must be as calculating and logical as the situation requires. If these agencies did not work in secret then our enemies would have an advantage. Ever read about the "Dark Web"? How often do you hear in the news of potiental terrorist attacks being thwarted but yet it has happened far more often than the

general public is made aware of (I'm speaking prior to 9/11). Is this an example of "suppression of truth"?Secrets in the hands of our government make many a person uncomfortable and suspicious. This is a reaction that many people take to extremes I think but I'm not discounting all theories based on mistrust. According to the dictionary, suspicion is the belief of something wrong without proof or on slight evidence. Thus, lack of information proliferates rumors such as the freemasons control of our government from it's very beginning.Kim>> The C.I.A. and other agencies are of course the best of the best when it comes to cold calculation and so forth. They are fit for their secret jobs right under peoples' noses. It's all a very complex system

that has many layers. I don't claim to know how integrated each branch of the government is and what specific goals they might have other than money and suppression of truth. There was the renaissance and what it equated to isn't what some scientists are pushing for today. Alot of people say it could be the freemasons. It's anyone's guess.......>

Get your email and more, right on the new .com

[Guest guest]

Kim quoted me as saying.

" ...and every single girlfriend you ever had cheating on you... "

Just wanted to add the current one hasn't cheated, so maybe there is

hope at least.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

There are a bunch of Aspies who have become the Wiki caretakers of

the Wiki on AS and Autism and they have deleted all the links to

every helpful research website except for their own site and boards.

They have also deleted information that does not confrom to their

view of AS and autism.

Anything that goes against the autistic rights movements gets

deleted as well.

Yet this is the primary source people out there are going to for

information on AS and autism. Little do these people know that they

may actually be endangering their children by reading it.

Wikipedia is a joke because anyone can add " informatiom " without

quoting a source, or even make up sources. Thus fiction becomes

fact and the lines between what is fiction and what is fact are

erased completely.

Tom

Administrator

Re: A Rush to Medicate Young Minds

Wikipedia is sometimes inaccurate as can be expected since it is a

collection of facts and opinions. What can be found at Wikipedia

should not be taken as absolute truth.

Raven

[Guest guest]

" Yet he persisted in his tantrum even when I explained it was not my

daughters fault the cake was gone and I apologized for not saving

him a piece. I did not know he hadn't had any at all. "

Kim, this is the crux of the problem. Aspies notice EVERYTHING.

Chances are he knows who had how many peices and he simply assumed

you and his sister would know the same. The fact that neither of you

knew is a lapse which he resents you and your daughter for.

" This was not enough for him and his outburst continued, so I did

what I always do when reason is beyond him, I sent him to his room.

On his way to his room he kicked my daughters bookbag three times. "

Probably what he was feeling was that YOU and your daughter should

be punished for what he sees as your lack of consideration.

" When he calmed down, I allowed him to come back to the kitchen. I

again (for the kagillionth time) told him it is ok to be angry but

it was not ok to yell, scream, or destroy other peoples property. "

This would only have made him more angry since he does not consider

himself at fault here.

" The point was heard but he did not agree. He bluntly told me that

he could yell, scream, and kick her bag when he feels angry, that I

could not expect him to act any other way. "

While I disagree with his statement that violence is justifiable, I

agree with his statement that he is not the one that should be

getting punished here.

" When I told him he would not, he was sent back up to the room to

think this over. Then he came back down, told me he was sorry and

that it's just soooooo hard for him to hold it in when he feels like

that. "

He lied. He wasn't sorry. He just realized he was boxed into a

position where he had no choice but to apologize, and to continue to

arghue his point would have just gotten him into more trouble.

" We went over things he could have said such as, " I can't believe I

didn't get a piece of cake! I was really looking forward to that

after school! I am soooo ANGRY! " and " Since there isn't any cake

left, could I have a different snack? or I see there is a couple

cookies in the pantry, can I have those? " He told me that saying

those things made sense but he was still mad and he still blamed his

sister. How honest of him. Oh brother! "

And how about " I can't believe you two didn't notice that I have not

had any cake? "

" Just the night before our family had a therapy meeting and you can

see how much good it does. He is my youngest and at 10 years old, I

know he is capable of contolling his anger because he does at

school. He has told me that there are days he bottles up anger from

things that happens at school because he knows he would get " kicked

out " if he unleashed. He also knows that we won't kick him out of

the house for letting it all out and that I may not like his actions

but love him no matter what. "

Home is where you are supposed to be able to unload your troubles.

You are not supposed to find more troubles waiting for you when you

get home. From his perspective, he sees home as being very troubling

also, but doesn't belive that he should have to be so reserved

because it IS his home, and for him to experience such things at

home of all places is an indignity to him.

" My point is, I'm trying to teach my children that some things happen

that make up feel some negative emotions but we need to practice

dealing with those feelings appropriately. "

This is a good thing to teach them, but I think you and your

daughter ought to assume some responsibility for him not getting his

cake. THAT would have prevented most of this falre-up from occuring

in the first place.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Re: A Rush to Medicate Young Minds

" actually I know As is on the spectrum, but likely he would have been

AS, which is where he is headed. Perhaps this is a mincing of

words. I should more likely say that my son would have been at a

higher functioning level. Neurotoxins have an effect on anyone

introduced to them. "

The effect of toxins and its relations to one's level of functioning

can be seen in both AS people and NTs.

Perhaps AS people are an " indicator species " (like frogs are for the

animal kingdom) for the human race in terms of how environmental

factors effect people. But AS is AS and I hardly think it was CAUSED

by environmental factors when genetic evidence points to the

contrary.

So if AS people do not function as well as they could due to

environmental factors, it stands to reason that NTs MIGHT be

affected by those same environmental factors too, either to a

greater, lesser, or similar degree.

Thus we MAY not be disadvantaged too much purely by environmental

factors.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/11/2006 1:20:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

I am a Republican, but cannot stand Topinka and will not vote for her. But Blagoyovich is corrupt, so I won't vote for him either. At this point I am very tempted to write in "Bozo the clown."TomAdministrator

That is very often what it comes down to: which crook can most stomach voting for.

[Guest guest]

" I am not jealous I hate what she stands for. "

I think I understand what you are getting at here.

You are a woman who has tried to do your best by your husband, be of

good character, hold good morals, and take care of your son. Yet

your ex-husband is with this woman now and this woman is using your

son as an appliance to manipulate your husband and you in fights

against each other.

I would be angry too, if I were you.

But your ex-husband will never see it your way because he is in love

with this woman, and love tends to cloud men's minds.

Thus there is only one thing you can do in this situation: Raise

your som the nest you can when you are with him and, with your love

and care, try to counter-balance the damage they are doing to him.

In the menantime, do not fall prey to this woman's manipulations. If

she has to manipulate your husband in such a fashion to keep him

with her, she is weak. And he is a weak man for not seeing this

weakness in her.

As for Ravi, he is young and innocent and cannot see what is

happening. But if you love him and take care of him, he will soon

come to know what true motherly love is and remain loyal to you and

grow up healthy.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

This exerpt,

<snip>and ex-wife and every single girlfriend you ever had cheating on you,

was in your reply to my post about frustrations and how we react to them. It's nice to know that your present girlfriend has practiced fidelity in your relationship and may that situation continue.

Kim

>> Kim quoted me as saying.> > "...and every single girlfriend you ever had cheating on you..."> > Just wanted to add the current one hasn't cheated, so maybe there is > hope at least.> > Tom> Administrator

[Guest guest]

I am feeling guilty for making you rehash things because I

remember the things you've said in the past. Are you still going to

counceling for yourself or do you think it is a waste of time?

You say you feel that things happen to you that do not happen

to others. The small irratating stuff I see everyone go through all

the time. I have heard at times a sort of compitition between people

at who's had the worst run of luck. I myself have rehashed events

that nearly drove me mad but when I see or hear of someone going

through far more difficult situations, I look at my lot in life much

differently.

I've myself have had very few close friendships, people with

whom I could bare my soul and not one of these friendships still

exsist today. Even if these friendships didn't last, I believe they

helped me learn more about myself.

> How many times have YOU called up a friend's house expecting to

> hear his/her voice on the other end of the line...

I don't know what to say because I haven't had anyone to call

except family since I was about 19.

I was with my grandfather minutes before he passed. I dearly wish

the nurse had told me how near to death he was because the guilt I

feel, that he died alone, will never go away.

I was at my father's side when he passed from cancer and took care

of him during his illness. Watching him go from depression, nearly

committing suicide, to the paralysis that left him completely

humiliated when I had to change him and wipe him down after bowel

movements.

I won't go into the many deaths that occured one after another,

year after year in my husband's family as well as my own. I loved

them all and I believe they loved me too. When I sunk so low in

despair that I thought that my family would be better off without me

I got angry with myself. My kids need me and how could I think of

scarring them like that. Sad but there are still times that I think

if I'm not needed I do not want to exsist.

>I cannot tell you how

> annoying it is to be working at my paintings trying to paint a

> miniscule thin line, one millimeter long line and having someone

> shout at the top of their lungs " TOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!! CAN

> YOU HELP ME COPY AND PASTE THIS THING?????????? "

I can relate to that. Just when you think it's safe to become

absorbed in what your doing.....

That's what I enjoy the most, a few hours to myself, kids at school,

hubby at work, no t.v., no radio, just peace.

I'm impressed with your restraint for not throttling anyone, it

might just do some of them some good. ;>)

I could save you money on counselers and teach you my angry &

verbally rip um to shreds techniques, even our mastiff runs for

cover when I rev up.

I don't know why you have to help others but I haven't walked a

block in your shoes, so the reason must make sense to you.

Instead of being happy will being content suffice? I like content,

it's safe. Your easy to get along with even when you disagree so

please put me in my place if you feel I'm out of line. Be Angry!

}:/

Kim

[Guest guest]

> > "Yet he persisted in his tantrum even when I explained it was not my > daughters fault the cake was gone and I apologized for not saving > him a piece. I did not know he hadn't had any at all."> > Kim, this is the crux of the problem. Aspies notice EVERYTHING.

I do notice just about everything too but I was at my Mom's for a time and did not think to ask him if he had gotten some.

> "This was not enough for him and his outburst continued, so I did> what I always do when reason is beyond him, I sent him to his room.> On his way to his room he kicked my daughters bookbag three times."> > Probably what he was feeling was that YOU and your daughter should > be punished for what he sees as your lack of consideration.

Hit the nail on the head with that.

> "When he calmed down, I allowed him to come back to the kitchen. I> again (for the kagillionth time) told him it is ok to be angry but> it was not ok to yell, scream, or destroy other peoples property."> > This would only have made him more angry since he does not consider > himself at fault here.

Oh boy howdy do I know. I've only been on a mood stabilizer for about two years now but before that I have acted and felt the exact same way.

> "The point was heard but he did not agree. He bluntly told me that> he could yell, scream, and kick her bag when he feels angry, that I> could not expect him to act any other way."> > While I disagree with his statement that violence is justifiable, I > agree with his statement that he is not the one that should be > getting punished here.

It may be a punishment in his eyes but I must also protect my daughter when he becomes violent.> "When I told him he would not, he was sent back up to the room to > think this over. Then he came back down, told me he was sorry and > that it's just soooooo hard for him to hold it in when he feels like > that."> > He lied. He wasn't sorry. He just realized he was boxed into a > position where he had no choice but to apologize, and to continue to > arghue his point would have just gotten him into more trouble.

Your right. My oldest son has said the same thing so many times because he knows. I know too but if I let my youngest "get away with" (as the other kids would put it) not express some sort of apology all hell would break loose. It's not as easy when your juggling three very observant kids who demand I be fair.

> "We went over things he could have said such as, "I can't believe I> didn't get a piece of cake! I was really looking forward to that> after school! I am soooo ANGRY!" and "Since there isn't any cake> left, could I have a different snack? or I see there is a couple> cookies in the pantry, can I have those?" He told me that saying> those things made sense but he was still mad and he still blamed his> sister. How honest of him. Oh brother!"> > And how about "I can't believe you two didn't notice that I have not > had any cake?"

I think that would have been even better.

> "Just the night before our family had a therapy meeting and you can> see how much good it does. He is my youngest and at 10 years old, I> know he is capable of contolling his anger because he does at> school. He has told me that there are days he bottles up anger from> things that happens at school because he knows he would get "kicked> out" if he unleashed. He also knows that we won't kick him out of> the house for letting it all out and that I may not like his actions> but love him no matter what."> > Home is where you are supposed to be able to unload your troubles. > You are not supposed to find more troubles waiting for you when you > get home. From his perspective, he sees home as being very troubling > also, but doesn't belive that he should have to be so reserved > because it IS his home, and for him to experience such things at > home of all places is an indignity to him.

I know he feels that way but it's nice to hear it put into words. It takes all I've got sometimes not to lose my cool and I'm an adult.

> "My point is, I'm trying to teach my children that some things happen> that make up feel some negative emotions but we need to practice> dealing with those feelings appropriately."> > This is a good thing to teach them, but I think you and your > daughter ought to assume some responsibility for him not getting his > cake. THAT would have prevented most of this falre-up from occuring > in the first place.> > Tom> Administrator>I did try at the very onset of our conversation, see the begining, but the hurt and disappointment was too much. Thank you for the perspective. I am always looking for new ways to keep the peace and have as many upsets become learning opportunities for all of us. Now if we can just work on ways to keep my daughter from pushing his buttons before she starts when I'm not looking.

[Guest guest]

" Are you still going to counceling for yourself or do you think it

is a waste of time? "

Counseling is the best thing that I ever chose to do, but the thing

is, there is only so much work you can do on yourself and then you

are still out in the world. I do not see the necessity of going to a

counselor quite yet but will be going back in a while due to some

impending life changes. (I want to make sure I am not dragging

baggage into things.)

" You say you feel that things happen to you that do not happen

to others. The small irratating stuff I see everyone go through all

the time. I have heard at times a sort of compitition between people

at who's had the worst run of luck. I myself have rehashed events

that nearly drove me mad but when I see or hear of someone going

through far more difficult situations, I look at my lot in life much

differently. "

I am not one to get into competitions with folks over who suffered

worse. I believe we all have different tolerance levels and that

when we exceed them, we exceed them. That is how I look at it.

" I've myself have had very few close friendships, people with

whom I could bare my soul and not one of these friendships still

exsist today. Even if these friendships didn't last, I believe they

helped me learn more about myself. "

My friendships were all close and happened one after the other. But

I have no lifelong friends because they all died...one after the

other.

" I don't know why you have to help others but I haven't walked a

block in your shoes, so the reason must make sense to you. "

Well, as much as I've gotten hounded on other boards for being a

right-wing conservative religious holey-roller moralistic jerk, I

seem to be the one to run to when people want to talk, or want

advice, or need tutoring, or need help, or what have you.

I don't mind assisting people but to date I have only run into two

people who have been willing to reciprocate. I cannot complain I

guess, because these two came into my life in the past couple of

years. But even so, there is not much they can do to help me.

(Although I think one of them IS actually helping me, so I don't

think I will be able to complain about this much longer.)

" Instead of being happy will being content suffice? I like content,

it's safe. "

What I need is a really long vacation from life. One where I can

hide from the world and just hibernate. And I don't mean for months,

I mean for years, if not decades. If a project I am involved in pans

out, perhaps I will be able to do that to a degree.

I do take " weekend getaways " sometimes, but have not done so

recently. These are where I go away for a while and don't tell

anyone where. I hide in a motel room and watch TV, take long hot

showers, go hiking somewhere during the days. It helps, but it is a

tease. It is what I want all the time, and I cannot have it. So I

sort of feel like a dog who has food waived in front of him and who

is not allowed to actually eat all of it...just a taste.

" Your easy to get along with even when you disagree so please put me

in my place if you feel I'm out of line. Be Angry! "

You are not out of line, and I cannot be angry with you.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

I think extreme views on medication either way are dangerous. I

totally disagree with parents allowing their children to be doped up

just for an 'easy life' or to give the teachers an easy life and it

does happen.

However if a child needed medication and it was in the child's best

interest and not just for the whims of others then I agree. I say

agree, if this is an informed decision.

Totally agaisnt medication can be bad if the child isn't recieving

something that could be beneficial to them and totally for and

relying totally on medication is also not good. I suppose what I am

trying to get across is some sort of balance of views between often

extreme ones.

" Temple grandin said if you like scientific advances

> thank an ASPIE. "

>

> Not all scientific advances are because of Aspies and it is reverse

> discrimination to claim this to be so. Many NTs have contributed

> greatly to scientific advances. In fact, I know a few pretty

> incredible NT scientists and you are selling them short by

insisting

> that all scientific advances are due to Aspie minds.

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

My son has had similar episodes to what you describe, he is 12. He

used to believe it was okay to take his anger out on whatever, or

whomever he was angry with - he is now learning. He gets angry with

things and people and so lashes out at them - the things get broken.

It has taken him a long time to realise the person he is hurting the

most is himself when he destroys his own things.

When I have discussed things with him, it is clear that he needs an

outlet for his anger and he now has things in place in which he can

take his anger out that will not hurt anyone, or damage anything of

value. I also explained to him that it would not be fair if I lashed

out at him everytime I was angry/annoyed/frustrated/upset with him

(which of course I don't) but he could understand this reasoning, as

he is aware that even mummy can get angry at times.

" He is my youngest and at 10 years old, I know he is capable of

contolling his anger because he does at school. He has told me that

there are days he bottles up anger from things that happens at school

because he knows he would get " kicked out " if he unleashed. He also

knows that we won't kick him out of the house for letting it all out

and that I may not like his actions but love him no matter what.

My point is, I'm trying to teach my children that some things happen

that make up feel some negative emotions but we need to practice

dealing with those feelings appropriately. "

It is possible for some on the spectrum to control their anger for

some time. I have often heard of children on the spectrum being able

to hold it together for school and then come home and have a

meltdown. I do not believe it is always a question of chosing to lose

ones temper, but the amount of stress and effort and energy involved

with holding it all in is very hard.

I avoid having public meltdowns, for the most. It has not always been

this way though, I am sure I had some public ones when younger,

although I quickly learnt I did not like the attention they brought.

Sometimes I find myself (in what are for me) some very stressful

situations. If I am faced with enough of these situations, I

understand now that a meltdown at some point is generally inevitable.

Often the meltdowns occur when I am alone, when I have relaxed my

gaurd, am no longer tense and holding it all together.

>

> I was relating to my son and how he reacts to situations that are

> out of his control.

>

> For instance, he came home from school yesterday and wanted a piece

> of cake that my daughter had made on Sunday. It was had been eaten

> and was gone. He became infuriated! He unleased the brunt of his

> anger at my daughter who herself had only eaten two small squares.

>

> Now, my reaction to his outburst could have been to yell or scream

> at him for losing his temper. At one time I might have been that

> bad of an example but I have learned to keep my voice low, calm,

and

> reasonable. Yet he persisted in his tantrum even when I explained

> it was not my daughters fault the cake was gone and I apologized

for

> not saving him a piece. I did not know he hadn't had any at all.

>

> This was not enough for him and his outburst continued, so I did

> what I always do when reason is beyond him, I sent him to his

room.

> On his way to his room he kicked my daughters bookbag three times.

> When he calmed down, I allowed him to come back to the kitchen. I

> again (for the kagillionth time) told him it is ok to be angry but

> it was not ok to yell, scream, or destroy other peoples property.

>

> The point was heard but he did not agree. He bluntly told me that

> he could yell, scream, and kick her bag when he feels angry, that I

> could not expect him to act any other way. When I told him he

would

> not, he was sent back up to the room to think this over. Then he

> came back down, told me he was sorry and that it's just soooooo

hard

> for him to hold it in when he feels like that.

>

> We went over things he could have said such as, " I can't believe I

> didn't get a piece of cake! I was really looking forward to that

> after school! I am soooo ANGRY! " and " Since there isn't any cake

> left, could I have a different snack? or I see there is a couple

> cookies in the pantry, can I have those? " He told me that saying

> those things made sense but he was still mad and he still blamed

his

> sister. How honest of him. Oh brother!

>

> Just the night before our family had a therapy meeting and you can

> see how much good it does. He is my youngest and at 10 years old,

I

> know he is capable of contolling his anger because he does at

> school. He has told me that there are days he bottles up anger

from

> things that happens at school because he knows he would get " kicked

> out " if he unleashed. He also knows that we won't kick him out of

> the house for letting it all out and that I may not like his

actions

> but love him no matter what.

>

> My point is, I'm trying to teach my children that some things

happen

> that make up feel some negative emotions but we need to practice

> dealing with those feelings appropriately.

>

> Kim

[Guest guest]

Kim wrote: " I don't know why you have to help others but I haven't

walked a block in your shoes, so the reason must make sense to you.

Instead of being happy will being content suffice? I like content,

it's safe. Your easy to get along with even when you disagree so

please put me in my place if you feel I'm out of line. Be Angry! "

He *IS* easy to get along with ... even in the middle of a heated

debate face-to-face!

From what I have seen, I believe that others come to Tom for help

because of this logical and respectful way he has in discussions and

because he truly has incredible insight that escapes others. And

because he is the way he is, Tom is loathe to refuse anyone help if

they ask for it and he is able to assist them in some small

measure.

Unfortunately, some take advantage of his generosity while others

ignore his words of wisdom altogether because the truth is not what

they are looking to hear from anyone, never mind from Tom.

Fortunately, some are VERY appreciative of his efforts to help them

and they follow his suggestions, meeting with the success that has

eluded them with regards to the problem they were experiencing.

Raven

[Guest guest]

Tom I felt I should share your insightful summation of the cake episode

with my son. He thought you said exactly how he felt and was right

about everything but his knowing the exact number of pieces. That was

only because the cake pan had been put up above eye level. He also told

me when we read the " what could have been said " sentences that what you

had printed was what he did say to us. Awesome!

I am tempted to post more of our problems for your wonderful

translations but won't tax or use you in that way. Thank you again.

Kim

> >Tom's insight:

> > Home is where you are supposed to be able to unload your troubles.

> > You are not supposed to find more troubles waiting for you when you

> > get home. From his perspective, he sees home as being very troubling

> > also, but doesn't belive that he should have to be so reserved

> > because it IS his home, and for him to experience such things at

> > home of all places is an indignity to him.

>

Kim's response :

> I know he feels that way but it's nice to hear it put into words. It

> takes all I've got sometimes not to lose my cool and I'm an adult.

[Guest guest]

Kim,

I wish you were in the Family Forum. The parents there seem to think I

am full of crap whenever I offer my opinions.

You can post your problems here if you'd like, but the next week or so

I will be rather busy, so I may not be able to answer right away.

Tom

Administrator

I am tempted to post more of our problems for your wonderful

translations but won't tax or use you in that way. Thank you again.

Kim

[Guest guest]

I might do that Tom. Oh, and BTW my son was impressed when he saw that

the administrator took the time to think it out from his point of view.

I'm too close to the situation to be neutral party.

Kim

>

> Kim,

>

> I wish you were in the Family Forum. The parents there seem to think I

> am full of crap whenever I offer my opinions.