Re: Question regarding Tramadol and Epidurals

[Guest guest]

What are you taking for pain now? OTC antiinflammatories?

Addiction to narcotic painkillers when taken as prescribed is rare. If

you've had a history of issues with, say, alcohol dependency, then it might

be different. Not implying that's the case, just pointing out it's a

factor.)

I've been taking Vicodin for over a year, as prescribed, and have no

desire to take more than prescribed, and no issues with NOT taking them other

than I cannot get to sleep because of the pain levels w/o them.

Pain and depression are linked, and you may find antidepressants helpful

for your physical pain as well as emotional pain.

judith

In a message dated 12/14/2009 2:11:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

weeseweiss@... writes:

Has anyone used this medication for pain? I was prescribed 50 mg tablets

and noticed some icky side effects on the warning sheet which is making me

hesitant to try them.. I have moderate low back pain ( about a 5 daily)

with no clear cause other than mild diffuse disc bulge and mild degenerative

changes. Nothing that seems to impress doctors too much. Really at my wits

end with being in pain pretty much 24/7 but afraid of the drug side

effects and possibility of addiction as well. I am probably being paranoid just

want to know what you guys have thought of this med if you have tried it.

Also I have one doctor that basically said an epidural would prob not help

me and one who is optimistic that it will since she believes my problem is

inflammatory. I am confused and don't now who to listen to really .How

risky are epidurals and have any of you been helped by them? Are they super

painful?

I feel like it may be my last hope. I am on my second Physical Therapist

after wasting my time with one that wasn't really helping for several

months. I am trying to remain hopeful but its like all the enjoyment has been

sucked out of life. I can't imagine living the rest of my life like this.

There would be no point. I am sinking into depression from the chronic pain. I

don't even know which doctor to trust. I wish I could find one that would

be invested and available. I just feel lost. Any of you know of good docs in

the Chicago area?

Thanks for listening,

Amy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Groups Links

[Guest guest]

I am on 50 mg. Tramadol every 6 hours with ibuprofin. The only side effect I

notice is I get queezy if I take them on an empty stomach.

I so feel your pain! I have spinal stenosis and degenerative disc disease and

the pain TOTALLY consumes your life. Does anyone know of anything better than

tramadol that I can ask my Dr. about in 2 weeks? Physical therapy actually made

my back worse..Go figure..

S

Re: Question regarding Tramadol and

Epidurals

What are you taking for pain now? OTC antiinflammatories?

Addiction to narcotic painkillers when taken as prescribed is rare. If

you've had a history of issues with, say, alcohol dependency, then it might

be different. Not implying that's the case, just pointing out it's a

factor.)

I've been taking Vicodin for over a year, as prescribed, and have no

desire to take more than prescribed, and no issues with NOT taking them other

than I cannot get to sleep because of the pain levels w/o them.

Pain and depression are linked, and you may find antidepressants helpful

for your physical pain as well as emotional pain.

judith

In a message dated 12/14/2009 2:11:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

weeseweiss@... writes:

Has anyone used this medication for pain? I was prescribed 50 mg tablets

and noticed some icky side effects on the warning sheet which is making me

hesitant to try them.. I have moderate low back pain ( about a 5 daily)

with no clear cause other than mild diffuse disc bulge and mild degenerative

changes. Nothing that seems to impress doctors too much. Really at my wits

end with being in pain pretty much 24/7 but afraid of the drug side

effects and possibility of addiction as well. I am probably being paranoid just

want to know what you guys have thought of this med if you have tried it.

Also I have one doctor that basically said an epidural would prob not help

me and one who is optimistic that it will since she believes my problem is

inflammatory. I am confused and don't now who to listen to really .How

risky are epidurals and have any of you been helped by them? Are they super

painful?

I feel like it may be my last hope. I am on my second Physical Therapist

after wasting my time with one that wasn't really helping for several

months. I am trying to remain hopeful but its like all the enjoyment has been

sucked out of life. I can't imagine living the rest of my life like this.

There would be no point. I am sinking into depression from the chronic pain. I

don't even know which doctor to trust. I wish I could find one that would

be invested and available. I just feel lost. Any of you know of good docs in

the Chicago area?

Thanks for listening,

Amy

[Guest guest]

amy,

To me, I think all medications go overboard with their

warnings.  Pharmaceuticle companies are only trying to cover their butts, so

don't be afraid of labels.  As for Tramadol, it should not even be classified

as a pain med.  Regardless, it is considered to be one, and does help some

people find relief.  When it comes to meds, they may react differently to

different individuals.  Unless you try them yourself, you will not know for

certain how your body responds.  This goes the same for back pain.  Even

though a bulge is a bulge and degeneration is degeneration, an individuals'

response is unique.  We all perceive pain our own way.

I compare my experiences with Tramadol to that of Asprin.  I did absolutely

nothing for pain.  It had the " placebo effect " upon me.  That is, it didn't do

anything for pain, but made me think that I felt good just because I took

medicine.  The only thing this medicine did was bring upon an amped up

feeling.  This effect is contrary to any stated reactions and/or effects from

any of its labels, but I know what it did to me.

Besides medications, epidurals have become the " front-line " agains back pain. 

They are simple, quick, and mostly pain-free.  When it comes to back pain being

relieved by a procedure, nobody is able to predict success.  It is easy to say

that they will be the answer, but you will never know until you try it

yourself.  I view epidurals as a crap shoot; however, many insurance companies

use them as a prerequisite to any other treatment.  I also think many doctors

love administering them because of their simplicity.  It's an easy way to

over-bill and make quick cash.

I would look more into why the one doctor thinks the injection will probably be

of no benefit.  Perhaps there is something to it and the other doc just wants

the money.  If the doc views your problem as only inflammatory, then why don't

they prescribe an NSAID or some other type of medication for it?  Perhaps this

type of med, in conjuction with an actual narcotic, would relieve your pain. 

Try waiting, to see if any combo of meds help.  This will give you more time to

research and locate a care give that whom you can trust.

An epidural is so common that it can be performed anytime.  Perhaps this is

what makes it seem like doctors are not available or invested in your

situation.  You can be in and out of the office in under 1 hour.  It can be

administered with or without any anastesia.  It can be done either lying down

or sitting.  It's done by having the medicine injected by a big, long needle

into the epidural space.  X-ray guidance is used to be certain that the correct

spot is targeted.  A total of 3 can be given with 6 months.  However, if the

first one doesn't work, then it is unlikely that a second or third one will

work..  As they are so simple, there is virtually no risk.  There is no point

of worrying about them being painful.  It is also unlikely that permanant

benefit can be achieved.

Your back issues do seem to be " minor " and " usual " .  Also, god forbid anything

worse occurs, but you are only just beginning.  You are nowhere near being at a

last resort for you to be at your last hope.  I find physical therapy to be

another joke and waste of time.  I view it as yet another avenue where

companies bilk the insurance out of " easy money " .  Can you not take what you

have already learned in PT and work the exercises on your own?  I am one who

believes in keeping the body in great physical shape, but it doesn't take long

to realize if PT on the back is beneficial or not. 

No matter what you decide, you have to remain strong.  Try not to let

depression wrap its hands around you, but if it does then you deal with it. 

Even with back pain, I'm sure you can find enjoyment with something.  You are

now on a journey that seek relief.  You have to understand that along this

journey there may be a number of obstacles as well as different paths.  Only

you can decide what you want to do.  However, finding a doctor that you believe

understands the totality of your issues is paramount.  Out of Chicago, look

into the Rush University Hospitals.  They have many fine back specialists.  Of

particular note, there is a doctor by the name of Harel Deutch that practices

out of there.

dave

________________________________

From: " weeseweiss@... " <weeseweiss@...>

spinal problems

Sent: Sat, December 12, 2009 11:21:09 PM

Subject: Question regarding Tramadol and Epidurals

 

Has anyone used this medication for pain? I was prescribed 50 mg tablets and

noticed some icky side effects on the warning sheet which is making me hesitant

to try them.. I have moderate low back pain ( about a 5 daily) with no clear

cause other than mild diffuse disc bulge and mild degenerative changes. Nothing

that seems to impress doctors too much. Really at my wits end with being in pain

pretty much 24/7 but afraid of the drug side effects and possibility of

addiction as well. I am probably being paranoid just want to know what you guys

have thought of this med if you have tried it.

Also I have one doctor that basically said an epidural would prob not help me

and one who is optimistic that it will since she believes my problem is

inflammatory. I am confused and don't now who to listen to really .How risky are

epidurals and have any of you been helped by them? Are they super painful?

I feel like it may be my last hope. I am on my second Physical Therapist after

wasting my time with one that wasn't really helping for several months. I am

trying to remain hopeful but its like all the enjoyment has been sucked out of

life. I can't imagine living the rest of my life like this. There would be no

point. I am sinking into depression from the chronic pain. I don't even know

which doctor to trust. I wish I could find one that would be invested and

available. I just feel lost. Any of you know of good docs in the Chicago area?

Thanks for listening,

Amy

[Guest guest]

Wanting to avoid opiates, I was on tramadol for a couple of years. I found it to

not do much more than OTC pain relievers though many folks swear they get more

pain relief from it. I had a little queasiness, as mentioned, but it

wasn't very bad. Once my kids didn't need driving to school and other functions,

I switched over to opiates and got more relief.

Generally, I'd say it's worth a shot. I would advise caution though if you are

on any antidepressants! I was on prozac (believe it or not, for hot flashes)

prior to the addition of tramadol and those two drugs are contraindicated. The

increased risk of seizure is the issue. I'd complained to my docs for almost a

year that my jaw was constantly clenched so badly that I had even worse

headaches than usual. Eventually I discovered that both my docs and the

pharmacist all neglected to notice the interaction warning and took myself off

the prozac (I figured hot flashes were preferable to more pain at that point).

Six months later I still had the jaw issues.

As with many of the drugs we take (pain medications, NSAIDS, steroids, muscle

relaxers, etc.) there are risks and benefits. After going through your current

medications, if any, and conditions with your doctor, tramadol just might help

you. If it's not strong enough, then at least you'll have learned that much. It

is something that your body can become addicted to, though it doesn't " make you

high " . Stopping it should be tapered dose over time rather than sudden, if

you've used it for a length of time.

As to epidurals: you said one doc thinks it would help because she believe it's

an inflammatory issue? There are risks of course, but they're also a diagnostic

sort of tool: if the injections work, you know what area the pain is generating

from. The last ones I got reduced the arthritis pain by about 50 percent in that

area. Not perfect, but oh so welcomed! I know what you mean about it being

depressing and bleak. I've been stuck in this for 12 years; others here much

longer. There is still value to life, but feeling so much pain you can't

participate in or enjoy it is the marker I use that I need to do something else.

If (the moderator) were here, she'd mention that you could look into

trigger point therapy. I don't know a lot about it, but it wouldn't be hard to

research online...

: you said PT made your back worse. Is that from nerve issues, or

muscular... or what? I had the same problem due to nerve impingement and a

movement disorder that we didn't know I have. " Correct posture " is very painful

for me because of those two issues. Neurontin has helped with the nerve pain,

about 25-30 percent I'd say. Don't know if that's helpful, but there it is. LOL.

Good luck to all of us!

>

>

> I am on 50 mg. Tramadol every 6 hours with ibuprofin. The only side effect I

notice is I get queezy if I take them on an empty stomach.

> I so feel your pain! I have spinal stenosis and degenerative disc disease and

the pain TOTALLY consumes your life. Does anyone know of anything better than

tramadol that I can ask my Dr. about in 2 weeks? Physical therapy actually made

my back worse..Go figure..

>

> S

>

>

>

>

> Re: Question regarding Tramadol and

Epidurals

>

>

>

>

> What are you taking for pain now? OTC antiinflammatories?

>

> Addiction to narcotic painkillers when taken as prescribed is rare. If

> you've had a history of issues with, say, alcohol dependency, then it might

> be different. Not implying that's the case, just pointing out it's a

> factor.)

>

> I've been taking Vicodin for over a year, as prescribed, and have no

> desire to take more than prescribed, and no issues with NOT taking them other

> than I cannot get to sleep because of the pain levels w/o them.

>

> Pain and depression are linked, and you may find antidepressants helpful

> for your physical pain as well as emotional pain.

>

> judith

>

>

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/14/2009 2:11:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> weeseweiss@... writes:

>

> Has anyone used this medication for pain? I was prescribed 50 mg tablets

> and noticed some icky side effects on the warning sheet which is making me

> hesitant to try them.. I have moderate low back pain ( about a 5 daily)

> with no clear cause other than mild diffuse disc bulge and mild degenerative

> changes. Nothing that seems to impress doctors too much. Really at my wits

> end with being in pain pretty much 24/7 but afraid of the drug side

> effects and possibility of addiction as well. I am probably being paranoid

just

> want to know what you guys have thought of this med if you have tried it.

>

> Also I have one doctor that basically said an epidural would prob not help

> me and one who is optimistic that it will since she believes my problem is

> inflammatory. I am confused and don't now who to listen to really .How

> risky are epidurals and have any of you been helped by them? Are they super

> painful?

>

> I feel like it may be my last hope. I am on my second Physical Therapist

> after wasting my time with one that wasn't really helping for several

> months. I am trying to remain hopeful but its like all the enjoyment has been

> sucked out of life. I can't imagine living the rest of my life like this.

> There would be no point. I am sinking into depression from the chronic pain. I

> don't even know which doctor to trust. I wish I could find one that would

> be invested and available. I just feel lost. Any of you know of good docs in

> the Chicago area?

>

> Thanks for listening,

> Amy

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Your comment about the marker for when you need to do something made me think. I

am getting slightly worse each day and know I need to do something. We have no

insurance as we have to many pre existing conditions between all of us including

the kids.

I had surgery on sequestered L1/L2 and have gone downhill since then. My surgeon

knows I have herniated L4/L5 and L5/S1 and tried a steroid shot which did not

work. each visit I asked about the radiating pain around my back to chest and he

never addressed it, my chiropractor showed me the herniated T11/T12 on my mri. I

dont know why the surgeon did not pick that up except for the fact its a rare

disk to herniate. The pain from that is awful, I have a numb patch on my left

thigh, pain in my right thigh and pins and needles. Some days I can barley walk

as I limp so bad. I have no clue what to do or how worried I should be about the

T11/12 as reading up on it it is not good.

I think I need a 2nd opinion as I have no quality of life anymore from the

constant pain, I am tough as nails but this has me beat.

[Guest guest]

,

Your comment about the marker for when you need to do something made me think. I

am getting slightly worse each day and know I need to do something. We have no

insurance as we have to many pre existing conditions between all of us including

the kids.

I had surgery on sequestered L1/L2 and have gone downhill since then. My surgeon

knows I have herniated L4/L5 and L5/S1 and tried a steroid shot which did not

work. each visit I asked about the radiating pain around my back to chest and he

never addressed it, my chiropractor showed me the herniated T11/T12 on my mri. I

dont know why the surgeon did not pick that up except for the fact its a rare

disk to herniate. The pain from that is awful, I have a numb patch on my left

thigh, pain in my right thigh and pins and needles. Some days I can barley walk

as I limp so bad. I have no clue what to do or how worried I should be about the

T11/12 as reading up on it it is not good.

I think I need a 2nd opinion as I have no quality of life anymore from the

constant pain, I am tough as nails but this has me beat.

[Guest guest]

,

Your comment about the marker for when you need to do something made me think. I

am getting slightly worse each day and know I need to do something. We have no

insurance as we have to many pre existing conditions between all of us including

the kids.

I had surgery on sequestered L1/L2 and have gone downhill since then. My surgeon

knows I have herniated L4/L5 and L5/S1 and tried a steroid shot which did not

work. each visit I asked about the radiating pain around my back to chest and he

never addressed it, my chiropractor showed me the herniated T11/T12 on my mri. I

dont know why the surgeon did not pick that up except for the fact its a rare

disk to herniate. The pain from that is awful, I have a numb patch on my left

thigh, pain in my right thigh and pins and needles. Some days I can barley walk

as I limp so bad. I have no clue what to do or how worried I should be about the

T11/12 as reading up on it it is not good.

I think I need a 2nd opinion as I have no quality of life anymore from the

constant pain, I am tough as nails but this has me beat.

[Guest guest]

Hi my name is Becky i read you have spinal stenosis did you have scolioios

surgery because now after 24 years after scolious surgery they say i need

surgery for lumbar stenosis i dont want another surgery i just wonder if you had

surgery thanks

From: 81196@... <81196@...>

Subject: Re: Question regarding Tramadol and

Epidurals

spinal problems

Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 5:25 PM

 

I am on 50 mg. Tramadol every 6 hours with ibuprofin. The only side effect I

notice is I get queezy if I take them on an empty stomach.

I so feel your pain! I have spinal stenosis and degenerative disc disease and

the pain TOTALLY consumes your life. Does anyone know of anything better than

tramadol that I can ask my Dr. about in 2 weeks? Physical therapy actually made

my back worse..Go figure..

S

Re: Question regarding Tramadol and

Epidurals

What are you taking for pain now? OTC antiinflammatories?

Addiction to narcotic painkillers when taken as prescribed is rare. If

you've had a history of issues with, say, alcohol dependency, then it might

be different. Not implying that's the case, just pointing out it's a

factor.)

I've been taking Vicodin for over a year, as prescribed, and have no

desire to take more than prescribed, and no issues with NOT taking them other

than I cannot get to sleep because of the pain levels w/o them.

Pain and depression are linked, and you may find antidepressants helpful

for your physical pain as well as emotional pain.

judith

In a message dated 12/14/2009 2:11:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

weeseweissaol (DOT) com writes:

Has anyone used this medication for pain? I was prescribed 50 mg tablets

and noticed some icky side effects on the warning sheet which is making me

hesitant to try them.. I have moderate low back pain ( about a 5 daily)

with no clear cause other than mild diffuse disc bulge and mild degenerative

changes. Nothing that seems to impress doctors too much. Really at my wits

end with being in pain pretty much 24/7 but afraid of the drug side

effects and possibility of addiction as well. I am probably being paranoid just

want to know what you guys have thought of this med if you have tried it.

Also I have one doctor that basically said an epidural would prob not help

me and one who is optimistic that it will since she believes my problem is

inflammatory. I am confused and don't now who to listen to really .How

risky are epidurals and have any of you been helped by them? Are they super

painful?

I feel like it may be my last hope. I am on my second Physical Therapist

after wasting my time with one that wasn't really helping for several

months. I am trying to remain hopeful but its like all the enjoyment has been

sucked out of life. I can't imagine living the rest of my life like this.

There would be no point. I am sinking into depression from the chronic pain. I

don't even know which doctor to trust. I wish I could find one that would

be invested and available. I just feel lost. Any of you know of good docs in

the Chicago area?

Thanks for listening,

Amy

[Guest guest]

No scoliosis..Right now I feel like a guinea pig. The copays to the Dr. alone

are killing me.

Hi my name is Becky i read you have spinal stenosis did you have scolioios

surgery because now after 24 years after scolious surgery they say i need

surgery for lumbar stenosis i dont want another surgery i just wonder if you had

surgery thanks

Re: Question regarding Tramadol and

Epidurals

What are you taking for pain now? OTC antiinflammatories?

Addiction to narcotic painkillers when taken as prescribed is rare. If

you've had a history of issues with, say, alcohol dependency, then it might

be different. Not implying that's the case, just pointing out it's a

factor.)

I've been taking Vicodin for over a year, as prescribed, and have no

desire to take more than prescribed, and no issues with NOT taking them other

than I cannot get to sleep because of the pain levels w/o them.

Pain and depression are linked, and you may find antidepressants helpful

for your physical pain as well as emotional pain.

judith

In a message dated 12/14/2009 2:11:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

weeseweissaol (DOT) com writes:

Has anyone used this medication for pain? I was prescribed 50 mg tablets

and noticed some icky side effects on the warning sheet which is making me

hesitant to try them.. I have moderate low back pain ( about a 5 daily)

with no clear cause other than mild diffuse disc bulge and mild degenerative

changes. Nothing that seems to impress doctors too much. Really at my wits

end with being in pain pretty much 24/7 but afraid of the drug side

effects and possibility of addiction as well. I am probably being paranoid just

want to know what you guys have thought of this med if you have tried it.

Also I have one doctor that basically said an epidural would prob not help

me and one who is optimistic that it will since she believes my problem is

inflammatory. I am confused and don't now who to listen to really .How

risky are epidurals and have any of you been helped by them? Are they super

painful?

I feel like it may be my last hope. I am on my second Physical Therapist

after wasting my time with one that wasn't really helping for several

months. I am trying to remain hopeful but its like all the enjoyment has been

sucked out of life. I can't imagine living the rest of my life like this.

There would be no point. I am sinking into depression from the chronic pain. I

don't even know which doctor to trust. I wish I could find one that would

be invested and available. I just feel lost. Any of you know of good docs in

the Chicago area?

Thanks for listening,

Amy

[Guest guest]

tracy,

I think that the meds which you currently take don't even come close to touching

a headache, let alone the pain for your type of conditions!  Hopefully you have

only begun the seeking of treatment.  Actually, it is unfortunate to even have

back issues/pain and to have to receive medical attention for it...but what are

you gonna do.  I view this as being undertreated and would be ticked if the doc

ordered this treatment.  At the least, you should be able to have some soret of

" true " narcotic.  This would begin with something sort of like a Darvocet

or Tylenol #3, up to a Vicodin or Lortabe like medication.

Having stenosis means that there is intrusion upon the cord or nerves.  So of

course PT could worsen the pain.  You are going to have to figure out what

works for you.  It's a long road that may never end.

dave

________________________________

From: " 81196@... " <81196@...>

spinal problems

Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 4:25:55 PM

Subject: Re: Question regarding Tramadol and

Epidurals

 

I am on 50 mg. Tramadol every 6 hours with ibuprofin. The only side effect I

notice is I get queezy if I take them on an empty stomach.

I so feel your pain! I have spinal stenosis and degenerative disc disease and

the pain TOTALLY consumes your life. Does anyone know of anything better than

tramadol that I can ask my Dr. about in 2 weeks? Physical therapy actually made

my back worse..Go figure..

S

Re: Question regarding Tramadol and

Epidurals

What are you taking for pain now? OTC antiinflammatories?

Addiction to narcotic painkillers when taken as prescribed is rare. If

you've had a history of issues with, say, alcohol dependency, then it might

be different. Not implying that's the case, just pointing out it's a

factor.)

I've been taking Vicodin for over a year, as prescribed, and have no

desire to take more than prescribed, and no issues with NOT taking them other

than I cannot get to sleep because of the pain levels w/o them.

Pain and depression are linked, and you may find antidepressants helpful

for your physical pain as well as emotional pain.

judith

In a message dated 12/14/2009 2:11:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

weeseweissaol (DOT) com writes:

Has anyone used this medication for pain? I was prescribed 50 mg tablets

and noticed some icky side effects on the warning sheet which is making me

hesitant to try them... I have moderate low back pain ( about a 5 daily)

with no clear cause other than mild diffuse disc bulge and mild degenerative

changes. Nothing that seems to impress doctors too much. Really at my wits

end with being in pain pretty much 24/7 but afraid of the drug side

effects and possibility of addiction as well. I am probably being paranoid just

want to know what you guys have thought of this med if you have tried it.

Also I have one doctor that basically said an epidural would prob not help

me and one who is optimistic that it will since she believes my problem is

inflammatory. I am confused and don't now who to listen to really .How

risky are epidurals and have any of you been helped by them? Are they super

painful?

I feel like it may be my last hope. I am on my second Physical Therapist

after wasting my time with one that wasn't really helping for several

months. I am trying to remain hopeful but its like all the enjoyment has been

sucked out of life. I can't imagine living the rest of my life like this.

There would be no point. I am sinking into depression from the chronic pain. I

don't even know which doctor to trust. I wish I could find one that would

be invested and available. I just feel lost. Any of you know of good docs in

the Chicago area?

Thanks for listening,

Amy

[Guest guest]

,

Sorry to hear you're having such problems. I know how it goes, though I have

different issues than you do. I also know how it feels when you keep telling a

doctor (or more than one!) about symptoms and they seem not to care. You can

mention it over and over, but it seems not to register.

Maybe it's truly not relevant, or maybe it is. I have come to make a list each

time I visit the doctor, outlining things to remember to talk about while I'm

there. I spend a few days typing things up, then write on the paper while in the

office... the doc's comments or suggestions, med changes, etc.

But if I start to feel like I'm just shuffled in and out with the doc not paying

attention to something that really should be addressed, I've come to bring a

separate copy for the doctor to put in my file. Then there is a writen record of

how long I've been having whatever symptoms (the notes specifically point out

how long they've been present). I have to directly ask for it to be put in my

chart. Those moments are great tells: normally the doc will wait till the next

visit, but when I bring it up again he's more responsive.

Are you able to work? If not, I would suggest getting a disability application

going. If your condition has existed for a while and/or is expected to last in

the future, this could help you get some insurance for yourself. The process is

horrendously long, so if that is something you can do I wouldn't delay. It's

common for it to take 3 years.

Keep on trucking, and don't give up! It's often hard, in the shape we're in, to

even get out of bed sometimes, let alone face all of this and deal with it

all... but no one else will!

All best,

>

> ,

>

> Your comment about the marker for when you need to do something made me think.

I am getting slightly worse each day and know I need to do something. We have no

insurance as we have to many pre existing conditions between all of us including

the kids.

>

> I had surgery on sequestered L1/L2 and have gone downhill since then. My

surgeon knows I have herniated L4/L5 and L5/S1 and tried a steroid shot which

did not work. each visit I asked about the radiating pain around my back to

chest and he never addressed it, my chiropractor showed me the herniated T11/T12

on my mri. I dont know why the surgeon did not pick that up except for the fact

its a rare disk to herniate. The pain from that is awful, I have a numb patch on

my left thigh, pain in my right thigh and pins and needles. Some days I can

barley walk as I limp so bad. I have no clue what to do or how worried I should

be about the T11/12 as reading up on it it is not good.

>

> I think I need a 2nd opinion as I have no quality of life anymore from the

constant pain, I am tough as nails but this has me beat.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks fo your input Dave. I am just starting treatment. 5 years ago I started,

but we were in a very bad place financially and my daughter still needed me at

home so I put it on the back burner(lol..no pun intended)

Within the last 6 months is when the pain got totally unbearable. I can't sleep

and definately can't find a job like this,which I was counting on when my

daughter got older.

I also am allergic to codeine.

Any alternative meds anyone knows of would be appreciated!

Should I also be thinking about SS disability? I feel so hopeless that I will

ever be better. grrr

I'll be seeing my doc in about a week and would appreciate all input. Thanks!!

S...

Re: Question regarding Tramadol and

Epidurals

What are you taking for pain now? OTC antiinflammatories?

Addiction to narcotic painkillers when taken as prescribed is rare. If

you've had a history of issues with, say, alcohol dependency, then it might

be different. Not implying that's the case, just pointing out it's a

factor.)

I've been taking Vicodin for over a year, as prescribed, and have no

desire to take more than prescribed, and no issues with NOT taking them other

than I cannot get to sleep because of the pain levels w/o them.

Pain and depression are linked, and you may find antidepressants helpful

for your physical pain as well as emotional pain.

judith

In a message dated 12/14/2009 2:11:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

weeseweissaol (DOT) com writes:

Has anyone used this medication for pain? I was prescribed 50 mg tablets

and noticed some icky side effects on the warning sheet which is making me

hesitant to try them... I have moderate low back pain ( about a 5 daily)

with no clear cause other than mild diffuse disc bulge and mild degenerative

changes. Nothing that seems to impress doctors too much. Really at my wits

end with being in pain pretty much 24/7 but afraid of the drug side

effects and possibility of addiction as well. I am probably being paranoid just

want to know what you guys have thought of this med if you have tried it.

Also I have one doctor that basically said an epidural would prob not help

me and one who is optimistic that it will since she believes my problem is

inflammatory. I am confused and don't now who to listen to really .How

risky are epidurals and have any of you been helped by them? Are they super

painful?

I feel like it may be my last hope. I am on my second Physical Therapist

after wasting my time with one that wasn't really helping for several

months. I am trying to remain hopeful but its like all the enjoyment has been

sucked out of life. I can't imagine living the rest of my life like this.

There would be no point. I am sinking into depression from the chronic pain. I

don't even know which doctor to trust. I wish I could find one that would

be invested and available. I just feel lost. Any of you know of good docs in

the Chicago area?

Thanks for listening,

Amy

[Guest guest]

I agree with all Dave said. For me though, the injections are so expensive as to

be prohibitive. The ones I just got in October (two levels, both sides) was over

$1600 out of pocket. That's with insurance.

The 50 percent or so improvement I saw from the injections is mostly gone after

only 11 weeks. Even with that improvement I have other issues which make me

unable to work. With our out of pocket cost for the injections, if I could work

it'd all go toward paying for them.

It is a crap shoot, I think. And the advice Dave gave to you that I like the

best is about finding a doctor who listens, understands ALL of you, and cares

enough to find a solution. Don't give up until you find a doctor like that. You

may have to " make due " in the meantime, but that doesn't mean you can't keep

looking.

All best,

>

> amy,

>

> To me, I think all medications go overboard with their

warnings.  Pharmaceuticle companies are only trying to cover their butts, so

don't be afraid of labels.  As for Tramadol, it should not even be classified

as a pain med.  Regardless, it is considered to be one, and does help some

people find relief.  When it comes to meds, they may react differently to

different individuals.  Unless you try them yourself, you will not know for

certain how your body responds.  This goes the same for back pain.  Even

though a bulge is a bulge and degeneration is degeneration, an individuals'

response is unique.  We all perceive pain our own way.

>

> I compare my experiences with Tramadol to that of Asprin.  I did absolutely

nothing for pain.  It had the " placebo effect " upon me.  That is, it didn't do

anything for pain, but made me think that I felt good just because I took

medicine.  The only thing this medicine did was bring upon an amped up

feeling.  This effect is contrary to any stated reactions and/or effects from

any of its labels, but I know what it did to me.

>

> Besides medications, epidurals have become the " front-line " agains back

pain.  They are simple, quick, and mostly pain-free.  When it comes to back

pain being relieved by a procedure, nobody is able to predict success.  It is

easy to say that they will be the answer, but you will never know until you try

it yourself.  I view epidurals as a crap shoot; however, many insurance

companies use them as a prerequisite to any other treatment.  I also think many

doctors love administering them because of their simplicity.  It's an easy way

to over-bill and make quick cash.

>

> I would look more into why the one doctor thinks the injection will probably

be of no benefit.  Perhaps there is something to it and the other doc just

wants the money.  If the doc views your problem as only inflammatory, then why

don't they prescribe an NSAID or some other type of medication for it?  Perhaps

this type of med, in conjuction with an actual narcotic, would relieve your

pain.  Try waiting, to see if any combo of meds help.  This will give you more

time to research and locate a care give that whom you can trust.

>

> An epidural is so common that it can be performed anytime.  Perhaps this is

what makes it seem like doctors are not available or invested in your

situation.  You can be in and out of the office in under 1 hour.  It can be

administered with or without any anastesia.  It can be done either lying down

or sitting.  It's done by having the medicine injected by a big, long needle

into the epidural space.  X-ray guidance is used to be certain that the correct

spot is targeted.  A total of 3 can be given with 6 months.  However, if the

first one doesn't work, then it is unlikely that a second or third one will

work..  As they are so simple, there is virtually no risk.  There is no point

of worrying about them being painful.  It is also unlikely that permanant

benefit can be achieved.

>

> Your back issues do seem to be " minor " and " usual " .  Also, god forbid

anything worse occurs, but you are only just beginning.  You are nowhere near

being at a last resort for you to be at your last hope.  I find physical

therapy to be another joke and waste of time.  I view it as yet another avenue

where companies bilk the insurance out of " easy money " .  Can you not take what

you have already learned in PT and work the exercises on your own?  I am one

who believes in keeping the body in great physical shape, but it doesn't take

long to realize if PT on the back is beneficial or not. 

>

> No matter what you decide, you have to remain strong.  Try not to let

depression wrap its hands around you, but if it does then you deal with it. 

Even with back pain, I'm sure you can find enjoyment with something.  You are

now on a journey that seek relief.  You have to understand that along this

journey there may be a number of obstacles as well as different paths.  Only

you can decide what you want to do.  However, finding a doctor that you believe

understands the totality of your issues is paramount.  Out of Chicago, look

into the Rush University Hospitals.  They have many fine back specialists.  Of

particular note, there is a doctor by the name of Harel Deutch that practices

out of there.

>

> dave

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: " weeseweiss@... " <weeseweiss@...>

> spinal problems

> Sent: Sat, December 12, 2009 11:21:09 PM

> Subject: Question regarding Tramadol and Epidurals

>

>  

>

> Has anyone used this medication for pain? I was prescribed 50 mg tablets and

noticed some icky side effects on the warning sheet which is making me hesitant

to try them.. I have moderate low back pain ( about a 5 daily) with no clear

cause other than mild diffuse disc bulge and mild degenerative changes. Nothing

that seems to impress doctors too much. Really at my wits end with being in pain

pretty much 24/7 but afraid of the drug side effects and possibility of

addiction as well. I am probably being paranoid just want to know what you guys

have thought of this med if you have tried it.

>

> Also I have one doctor that basically said an epidural would prob not help me

and one who is optimistic that it will since she believes my problem is

inflammatory. I am confused and don't now who to listen to really .How risky are

epidurals and have any of you been helped by them? Are they super painful?

>

> I feel like it may be my last hope. I am on my second Physical Therapist after

wasting my time with one that wasn't really helping for several months. I am

trying to remain hopeful but its like all the enjoyment has been sucked out of

life. I can't imagine living the rest of my life like this. There would be no

point. I am sinking into depression from the chronic pain. I don't even know

which doctor to trust. I wish I could find one that would be invested and

available. I just feel lost. Any of you know of good docs in the Chicago area?

>

> Thanks for listening,

> Amy

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

>I can get drugs...I just thought a pain management specialist might >be able

to put together more of a package of ways to deal with the >pain when it gets

bad.

Back in early August my GP wanted to refer me to Pain Management clinic, since

we hadn't tried that yet. I'm not averse to it by any means, but I think he

thought so when I questioned, " Referring me to them for what diagnosis,

EXACTLY? " Well, I spent a week pouring through my ongoing medical " journal " or

diary... whatever you want to call it. I typed up a cogent, one page letter

outlining the changes in pain, pattern of things, etc. and wondered if it wasn't

time to do another MRI; it'd been three years and the last was pre-surgery. He

agreed.

Long story short, it was a good thing I was so " pushy " about it. Because of my

reluctance to be treated without a proper diagnosis, I was diagnosed with a

movement disorder that had gone unnoticed by a large battery of doctors for 12

years. Can't blame them for not seeing it, it's rare. But if I'd have just

blindly gone along with a " I don't know what to do, so I'll send you over here "

plan one more time, who knows how long, if ever, it would have taken for that

diagnosis? And this disorder, based in the brain, can largely be responsible for

the spinal issues I've had since age 28. My hope now is that, properly treated,

we can halt the progression of the spinal stuff and maybe even get me off some

of the pain meds.

I did get one more set of spinal injections through all of this recent stuff,

and it helped the arthritis pain about 50 percent. That was more than welcome,

for sure! And enabled me to separate the dystonia pain from the spinal pain for

the first time.

If it ends up that I have to go to pain management anyway, fine. I guess I'm

just cautioning all of us to not forget that a proper diagnosis is paramount to

treatment plans and the success of them. I'm probably a fluke, but so glad I

listened to my gut.

[Guest guest]

SS disability is an EXTREMELY DIFFICULT thing to get. Especially if you have a

back disorder. If you can walk, talk, look like the average person? They will

not believe you. And you have to practically be a " broke " person to get it. If

you have a retirement fund, savings, nice house.... that will be used against

you. If you have very limited resources ($$$), yes apply. If you are in the

" grey area " between, you will need a lawyer. SSDI will expect you to get a job

even if you can only push a broom (unless you are close to retirement age). SSI,

you can own a car, a house, NOTHING ELSE worth more than $3000.00, TOTAL! NO

savings, NO jewelry except a wedding ring... NO life insurance. They let you own

a burial plot

I would say find a good Doc, maybe a sports medicine Doc, somebody to keep you

going.

in NH

Re: Question regarding Tramadol and

Epidurals

What are you taking for pain now? OTC antiinflammatories?

Addiction to narcotic painkillers when taken as prescribed is rare. If

you've had a history of issues with, say, alcohol dependency, then it might

be different. Not implying that's the case, just pointing out it's a

factor.)

I've been taking Vicodin for over a year, as prescribed, and have no

desire to take more than prescribed, and no issues with NOT taking them other

than I cannot get to sleep because of the pain levels w/o them.

Pain and depression are linked, and you may find antidepressants helpful

for your physical pain as well as emotional pain.

judith

In a message dated 12/14/2009 2:11:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

weeseweissaol (DOT) com writes:

Has anyone used this medication for pain? I was prescribed 50 mg tablets

and noticed some icky side effects on the warning sheet which is making me

hesitant to try them... I have moderate low back pain ( about a 5 daily)

with no clear cause other than mild diffuse disc bulge and mild degenerative

changes. Nothing that seems to impress doctors too much. Really at my wits

end with being in pain pretty much 24/7 but afraid of the drug side

effects and possibility of addiction as well. I am probably being paranoid

just

want to know what you guys have thought of this med if you have tried it.

Also I have one doctor that basically said an epidural would prob not help

me and one who is optimistic that it will since she believes my problem is

inflammatory. I am confused and don't now who to listen to really .How

risky are epidurals and have any of you been helped by them? Are they super

painful?

I feel like it may be my last hope. I am on my second Physical Therapist

after wasting my time with one that wasn't really helping for several

months. I am trying to remain hopeful but its like all the enjoyment has been

sucked out of life. I can't imagine living the rest of my life like this.

There would be no point. I am sinking into depression from the chronic pain. I

don't even know which doctor to trust. I wish I could find one that would

be invested and available. I just feel lost. Any of you know of good docs in

the Chicago area?

Thanks for listening,

Amy