Joint pain

April 17, 2002

could someone tell me what is considered " long term " on prednisone?

i've been off for about two weeks and i literally hurt all over. the

doctor told me that prednisone couldn't cause this. does this sound

right? i kind of don't believe it, but then ....??? kathy

---

In @y..., MKANTZLE@A... wrote:

> ,

>

> Have you had an x-ray of your hips? One of the side effects of

increased

> long term prednisone use is avascular necrosis of the hip. I have

had a bone

> density and it shows definite bone loss in both hips, Right greater

than

> left. Just something to ask your doctor about. It may just be

the normal

> joint aches we all have but it is worth mentioning to your Doctor.

>

October 13, 2002

Hey all,

My question is what do you guys take for the joint pain if you can't take the

non steroidal meds? My platelet count and protime are so far out of normal I

can't take Advil, Aleve, Non steroidals or even Tylenol.

I still work and would not be able to take narcotis (Nor would I want to as

the pain is not that bad yet). I go to see my Hepatologist this Wednesday

and am planning to see what he thinks.

Thanks for your response.

October 13, 2002

Thanks Sharon. They won't let me take any anti inflammatory. I've had

variceal bleeds, so I'm preatty much stuck. It stinks as today is rainy and

damp and I hurt every where.

October 14, 2002

This rainy weather makes my joints hurt bad. I take hydrocodone which helps

alot. Also use Tylenol#3 which contains codeine.

ShIreen

>From: MKANTZLE@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: [ ] Joint Pain

>Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 10:39:42 EDT

>

>Thanks Sharon. They won't let me take any anti inflammatory. I've had

>variceal bleeds, so I'm preatty much stuck. It stinks as today is rainy

>and

>damp and I hurt every where.

>

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October 14, 2002

Have you tried Ultram? Ask doc about it. It is not an antiinflammatroy and

does not contain tylenol. Why cant you take tylenol in reasonable dose?

Shireen

>From: MKANTZLE@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: [ ] Re: Joint pain

>Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 08:58:39 EDT

>

>Hey all,

>

>My question is what do you guys take for the joint pain if you can't take

>the

>non steroidal meds? My platelet count and protime are so far out of normal

>I

>can't take Advil, Aleve, Non steroidals or even Tylenol.

>

>I still work and would not be able to take narcotis (Nor would I want to as

>the pain is not that bad yet). I go to see my Hepatologist this Wednesday

>and am planning to see what he thinks.

>

>Thanks for your response.

>

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October 14, 2002

Shireen,

I can take only an occasional Tylenol 1 regular strength not to exceed 1 a

day. The pain is constant and 1 Tylenol won't tough it. It's because of the

liver damage which has alread occurred. I have cirrhosis, portal

hypertension and have had variceal bleeds. They do not want to do anything

to cause LFT's to worsen as they are just barely stable after 3 years.

October 14, 2002

Shireen,

I guess what I don't understand is before all of this I had no joint pains at

all except an occasional knee that bothers me which I have had surgery on and

my neck which I injured in a car accident. I don't understand why after

tapering the prednisone now every joint I have hurts. I didn't hurt like

this before AIH. This disease is crazy and will make me crazy if I let it.

But I refuse to do that. I just keep on plugging away. What else can you

do?

I dread winter. I have never liked it but now as it approaches I can't

imagine what the cold weather will do to my " Poor aching bones " . I think I

want to move out to California where Harper is. It sounds so lovely when she

writes about it. She needs to send some more lovely warm messages to us.

We're cold and hurting back East.

October 14, 2002

I have had pain in my shoulder recently that hurt so bad I didn't care what

it did to my liver. I am not recommending that to you.

Shireen

>From: MKANTZLE@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Joint pain

>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:58:4

>

>I can take only an occasional Tylenol 1 regular strength not to exceed 1 a

>day. The pain is constant and 1 Tylenol won't tough it. It's because of

>the

>liver damage which has alread occurred. I have cirrhosis, portal

>hypertension and have had variceal bleeds. They do not want to do anything

>to cause LFT's to worsen as they are just barely stable after 3 years.

>

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October 15, 2002

...what happens is: when we take prednisone it takes over the job

of cortisone and other anti-inflammatories usually made naturally in our

adrenal glands.....the adrenals get lazy and forget how to make

them....so when we come off the pred. we are at a disadvantage

anti-inflammatory wise.

Jerry : )

October 15, 2002

Jerry,

Thanks for the info. Does the joint pain ever go away? I am in agony

tonight as it is cold and rainy again here in VA. We need the rain and I

hate to complain but this stinks. I feel 145 not 45. I thought I would

never hear me say I want to go up on the prednisone but I really would like

to I hurt so bad. I am going to ask about the plaquenl and Embral tomorrow

when I go. Not being able to take anti inflammatories is a killer.

October 25, 2002

Jan.... as you are pointing out, each person has a different threshhold

of pain...

I can dismiss certain pains by trying to ignore them (almost immpossible

with my back sometimes) but the real reaon I avoid certain meds is they

can easily be abused even by " normal " people....

hydrocodone for instance can become habit forming and it is usually

mixed with acetaminophen (tylenol) i.e. vicodin ... each pill usually

contains 500mgs of tylenol and if one abuses them he/she runs the risk

of toxic hepatic failure... being a recovering alcoholic I can't put

myself in a situation where I might abuse them...narcotics also are as

deadly to me as alcohol... most people I'm sure can take these meds

responsibly if needed. no one should have to be in pain constantly.

Try cold treatment occassionally. Of cpourse check with your doctor. Wet

heat helps most peope. but like you said we're each different.

love jerry

December 7, 2002

Quickly...... the liver has many functions one of which is some kind of

control over the pituitary which signals the adrenals to produce

cortisone to relieve inflammation commonly found in the jonts from

constant friction....when compromised it doesn't do it's duty and you

get joint pain.....prednisone is a synthetic cortisone that replaces it.

If on prednisone too lomg long or hard the adrenals atrophy and forget

how to produce it, hence pred. should always be weaned slowly to allow

the adrenals to remember.

jerry

Hi, Can anyone explain what the connection is between joint pain and liver disease. I have chirrosis caused by auto immune biliary disease and have joint pain all over my body, but the docs don't seem to make much of it, but boy, am I ever sore and stiff. Anyway, just wanted an explanation as to the correlation between the two.

Thanks,

Mimi

January 10, 2005

Thanks nne!

I am grateful that I feel as well as I do and hope

that the future only gets better! I hope that your

joint pain can be managed in some way!

Kathy

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June 21, 2006

Anyone know of a good remedy for joint pains ?

Mine seem to be getting worse, however my viral load is good.

I am just starting to take soy lecithen to clean out my liver ? Not sure if

this works or not, but it sounded good

I am starting to stop drinking alchol--this will probably help the most

I am starting to take royal gelly, and bee pollen and bee propolis

Of course, I am doing them all at the same time and am not sure what will be

actually working a what will not.

I tried sleeping allot this last weekend and that seemed to help more than

anything.

Please comment,

Everett/So Calif

---------------------------------

Sports Fantasy Football ’06 - Go with the leader. Start your league

today!

June 21, 2006

HEY THERE, COULD YOU TELL ME HOW LONG YOU HAVE BEEN ON TREATMENT. I HAVE

BEEN ON IT FOR 3 MONTHS AND I AM STILL DRINKING . NOT LIKE I USE TO . I

USE TO DRINK JOSE CUERVO EVERYDAY SO I THINK I AM DOING BETTER. I STILL

DRINK BEER ALMOST EVERYDAY. BUT I LIVE ALONE AND THIS IS THE TOUGHEST

THING I HAVE EVER DONE.!!!!! PLEASE RESPONED SHAMMIE

>

> Anyone know of a good remedy for joint pains ?

>

> Mine seem to be getting worse, however my viral load is good.

>

> I am just starting to take soy lecithen to clean out my liver ? Not

sure if this works or not, but it sounded good

>

> I am starting to stop drinking alchol--this will probably help the

most

>

> I am starting to take royal gelly, and bee pollen and bee propolis

>

> Of course, I am doing them all at the same time and am not sure what

will be actually working a what will not.

>

> I tried sleeping allot this last weekend and that seemed to help more

than anything.

>

> Please comment,

>

> Everett/So Calif

>

> ---------------------------------

> Sports Fantasy Football '06 - Go with the leader. Start

your league today!

>

June 21, 2006

You're not going to like this solution...

My joint pain -- and it was very bad -- swelling in my knees and hands so bad I

hobbled around and couldn't grip a toothbrush, didn't improve and eventually go

away for most of the time, until I stopped alcohol, coffee (some diet colas

okay, but only 1 or 2 daily, and then only after a while), backed WAY back off

junk food, drank lots of filtered water (NO tap water).

In other words, switched to eating veggies, fresh fruit, fish (salmon mostly),

layed off red meat, and, of course, NO smoking.

How soon and how much relief you get depends on how much you stop taxing your

liver, which has to filter out all this garbage (sugar, caffeine, preservatives,

food dyes and colorings, which are carcinogenic/cancer-causing), not to mention

nicotine and all the other toxins in cigarettes.

See? I told you the answer wouldn't be to your liking.

BUT, I went from a cripple to lifting weights again.

AND I took milk thistle capsules and made my own tea from raw fresh herbs (easy

to find the herbs and recipie online, or in healthfood stores).

There are other supplements to hasten the improvement, but it's a matter of how

much you want to feel better, or avoid a transplant.

I'm NOT a fanatic, but was very strict about all this for several months. Now I

cheat occasionally, sometimes a lot, but I always pay the price. My liver will

ache, my hands get stiff and swollen, my sinuses get congested.

it's a choice...no one can make you do any of this -- the positive or the

negative...in a way that's a good thing (we can take control) AND not so good

(we're in charge, so likely to screw up occasionally or a lot).

But it's nicer than having many diseases where you have NO control.

But the bottom line is that I'm like a 4-year old more than I like to admit: I

want, what I want, when I want it - which is NOW...and I want something even

more when I can't have it, or know it's bad for me (this includes women, and

other vices) -- it' s human nature

my 2 cents

Bill

Bill Asenjo, PhD, CRC

www.billasenjo.com

basenjo@...

319-530-4552 (cell)

Re: Joint Pain

HEY THERE, COULD YOU TELL ME HOW LONG YOU HAVE BEEN ON TREATMENT. I HAVE

BEEN ON IT FOR 3 MONTHS AND I AM STILL DRINKING . NOT LIKE I USE TO . I

USE TO DRINK JOSE CUERVO EVERYDAY SO I THINK I AM DOING BETTER. I STILL

DRINK BEER ALMOST EVERYDAY. BUT I LIVE ALONE AND THIS IS THE TOUGHEST

THING I HAVE EVER DONE.!!!!! PLEASE RESPONED SHAMMIE

>

> Anyone know of a good remedy for joint pains ?

>

> Mine seem to be getting worse, however my viral load is good.

>

> I am just starting to take soy lecithen to clean out my liver ? Not

sure if this works or not, but it sounded good

>

> I am starting to stop drinking alchol--this will probably help the

most

>

> I am starting to take royal gelly, and bee pollen and bee propolis

>

> Of course, I am doing them all at the same time and am not sure what

will be actually working a what will not.

>

> I tried sleeping allot this last weekend and that seemed to help more

than anything.

>

> Please comment,

>

> Everett/So Calif

>

> ---------------------------------

> Sports Fantasy Football '06 - Go with the leader. Start

your league today!

>

June 22, 2006

....you might include any packaged foods, most notably numerous are snacks,

that have anything in the ingredients that say " hydrogenated " or " partially

hydrogenated " . these are the trans-fats & are poison. this includes most

butter substitutes...all margarines. you might want to look closely into

avoiding anything with flouride...tap water, packaged drinks that don't

specifically say FILTERED water, & dental flouride treatments. flouride is

toxic waste (widespread by-product of the making of aluminum) that has been

well demonstrated to NOT belong in drinking water as it does no good except

to BS the public that it's not an environmental poisonn that must be cleaned

up. if you have silver fillings in your teeth get rid of them...they're

not silver & are full of mercury which leaches into your system when the

fillings get old. mercury at any level in your system severely compromises

the immune system...same with flouride but maybe not quite as bad...both

carcinogenic. dioxins are produced in large ammounts & dumped into the

environment by industry in the process of making paper white & other

bleaching operations...also a main component of many herbicides (weed

control). dioxins are the danger of Agent Orange which, once government

lies had been penetrated & exposed, are known to cause among other horrific

problems diabetes. diabetes is closely related to liver functioning & is

becoming a sneaky national epidemic....thank you Chem-Lawn & our lust for

perfect looking lawns???

> Re: Joint Pain

>

> You're not going to like this solution...

>

> My joint pain -- and it was very bad -- swelling in my knees and

> hands so bad I hobbled around and couldn't grip a toothbrush,

> didn't improve and eventually go away for most of the time, until

> I stopped alcohol, coffee (some diet colas okay, but only 1 or 2

> daily, and then only after a while), backed WAY back off junk

> food, drank lots of filtered water (NO tap water).

>

> In other words, switched to eating veggies, fresh fruit, fish

> (salmon mostly), layed off red meat, and, of course, NO smoking.

>

> How soon and how much relief you get depends on how much you stop

> taxing your liver, which has to filter out all this garbage

> (sugar, caffeine, preservatives, food dyes and colorings, which

> are carcinogenic/cancer-causing), not to mention nicotine and all

> the other toxins in cigarettes.

>

> See? I told you the answer wouldn't be to your liking.

>

> BUT, I went from a cripple to lifting weights again.

>

> AND I took milk thistle capsules and made my own tea from raw

> fresh herbs (easy to find the herbs and recipie online, or in

> healthfood stores).

>

> There are other supplements to hasten the improvement, but it's a

> matter of how much you want to feel better, or avoid a transplant.

>

> I'm NOT a fanatic, but was very strict about all this for several

> months. Now I cheat occasionally, sometimes a lot, but I always

> pay the price. My liver will ache, my hands get stiff and

> swollen, my sinuses get congested.

>

> it's a choice...no one can make you do any of this -- the

> positive or the negative...in a way that's a good thing (we can

> take control) AND not so good (we're in charge, so likely to

> screw up occasionally or a lot).

>

> But it's nicer than having many diseases where you have NO control.

>

> But the bottom line is that I'm like a 4-year old more than I

> like to admit: I want, what I want, when I want it - which is

> NOW...and I want something even more when I can't have it, or

> know it's bad for me (this includes women, and other vices) --

> it' s human nature

>

> my 2 cents

>

> Bill

>

> Bill Asenjo, PhD, CRC

> www.billasenjo.com

> basenjo@...

>

> 319-530-4552 (cell)

> Re: Joint Pain

>

> HEY THERE, COULD YOU TELL ME HOW LONG YOU HAVE BEEN ON TREATMENT. I HAVE

> BEEN ON IT FOR 3 MONTHS AND I AM STILL DRINKING . NOT LIKE I USE TO . I

> USE TO DRINK JOSE CUERVO EVERYDAY SO I THINK I AM DOING BETTER. I STILL

> DRINK BEER ALMOST EVERYDAY. BUT I LIVE ALONE AND THIS IS THE TOUGHEST

> THING I HAVE EVER DONE.!!!!! PLEASE RESPONED SHAMMIE

>

> >

> > Anyone know of a good remedy for joint pains ?

> >

> > Mine seem to be getting worse, however my viral load is good.

> >

> > I am just starting to take soy lecithen to clean out my liver ? Not

> sure if this works or not, but it sounded good

> >

> > I am starting to stop drinking alchol--this will probably help the

> most

> >

> > I am starting to take royal gelly, and bee pollen and bee propolis

> >

> > Of course, I am doing them all at the same time and am not sure what

> will be actually working a what will not.

> >

> > I tried sleeping allot this last weekend and that seemed to help more

> than anything.

> >

> > Please comment,

> >

> > Everett/So Calif

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Sports Fantasy Football '06 - Go with the leader. Start

> your league today!

> >

June 23, 2006

Bill,

THANKS !

I have " felt " always, that what you said is correct and just needed a kickk in

the pants to make it happen. I am like the 4 year old too andd thought that if

I moderate my intake everything would be OK, but its time to take those two

months like you said to clean the body out.

So what are these other supplements that you talk about ?

I cant tell you how helpfull it is to hear from someone that has been through

this already and to know that there is hope at the other end.

Sincerely,

Everett

Bill Asenjo <basenjo@...> wrote: You're not

going to like this solution...