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diltsdoug wrote:

> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side effects.

> I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I have been

> noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle breakdown. Tops

> of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks concave, or indented

> and I have also expereinced some memory issues mostly short term. Its

> seems every time a take a shot a few days later my skin starts this

> tingly itch. I have had blood work done and doctors say everything is

> okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests there not doing that could

> be the issue. I would think they know where to look, but most of the

> doctors I have talked seem to have little knowledge in this field. If

> any one has any info that could be of help please do....thanks Doug

Are you taking a statin drug?

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

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No other drugs..oh btw..im 36 yrs old prostate is swollen aswell.

>

>

> diltsdoug wrote:

>> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

>> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

>> effects. I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I

>> have been noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle

>> breakdown. Tops of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks

>> concave, or indented and I have also expereinced some memory issues

>> mostly short term. Its seems every time a take a shot a few days

>> later my skin starts this tingly itch. I have had blood work done and

>> doctors say everything is okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests

>> there not doing that could be the issue. I would think they know

>> where to look, but most of the doctors I have talked seem to have

>> little knowledge in this field. If any one has any info that could be

>> of help please do....thanks Doug

>

> Are you taking a statin drug?

>

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>

> " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

> to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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I think you and I should have a chat. My skin often itches from head to

toe and blood tests have revealed nothing. For years I was prescribed a

host of different anti-histamine medications, none of which did any

good. I have often wondered if it's a side effect of T.

i also have marked muscle waste. The more people we can find who have

these symptoms and who are recieving T replacement, the more likely

medics will take us seriously when we say that we believe the cause

could be coming from the T replacement.

My previous Consultant now retired believed that the muscle wasting was

deserving of a research programme and while he wouldn't agree that the

T was the sole cause of the muscle wasting, neither did he rule it out

entirely. However as Arthritis etc was his field and he knew very

little about Klinefelters, I understood his position in the matter.

Steph (Glasgow)

>

> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

effects.

> I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I have been

> noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle breakdown.

Tops

> of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks concave, or indented

> and I have also expereinced some memory issues mostly short term. Its

> seems every time a take a shot a few days later my skin starts this

> tingly itch. I have had blood work done and doctors say everything is

> okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests there not doing that could

> be the issue. I would think they know where to look, but most of the

> doctors I have talked seem to have little knowledge in this field. If

> any one has any info that could be of help please do....thanks Doug

>

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I think it would be a good idea to make copies of messages in regard to

these issues. We could then show these to medics. With that in mind,

may I have your permission to print out your initial message? It goes

without saying that anyone here is at liberty to print off anything

that I post.

Steph (Glasgow)

>

> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> years..........................

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I think it would be a good idea to make copies of messages in regard to

these issues. We could then show these to medics. With that in mind,

may I have your permission to print out your initial message? It goes

without saying that anyone here is at liberty to print off anything

that I post.

Steph (Glasgow)

>

> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> years..........................

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Thats sounds just like the problems I have been going thru with long term

testosterone use. I have had same skin itching. Was also prescribed

different itching creams..Where was your muscle waste? What have you done

since?

> I think you and I should have a chat. My skin often itches from head to

> toe and blood tests have revealed nothing. For years I was prescribed

> a host of different anti-histamine medications, none of which did any

> good. I have often wondered if it's a side effect of T.

> i also have marked muscle waste. The more people we can find who have

> these symptoms and who are recieving T replacement, the more likely

> medics will take us seriously when we say that we believe the cause

> could be coming from the T replacement.

>

> My previous Consultant now retired believed that the muscle wasting was

> deserving of a research programme and while he wouldn't agree that the

> T was the sole cause of the muscle wasting, neither did he rule it out

> entirely. However as Arthritis etc was his field and he knew very

> little about Klinefelters, I understood his position in the matter.

>

> Steph (Glasgow)

>

>

>>

>> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

>> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

> effects.

>> I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I have been

>> noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle breakdown.

> Tops

>> of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks concave, or indented

>> and I have also expereinced some memory issues mostly short term. Its

>> seems every time a take a shot a few days later my skin starts this

>> tingly itch. I have had blood work done and doctors say everything is

>> okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests there not doing that could

>> be the issue. I would think they know where to look, but most of the

>> doctors I have talked seem to have little knowledge in this field. If

>> any one has any info that could be of help please do....thanks Doug

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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Any help would be appreciated.........

> I think it would be a good idea to make copies of messages in regard to

> these issues. We could then show these to medics. With that in mind,

> may I have your permission to print out your initial message? It goes

> without saying that anyone here is at liberty to print off anything

> that I post.

>

> Steph (Glasgow)

>

>

>>

>> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

>> years..........................

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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I've been running into information about elevated estradiol being a

cause of BPH (enlarged prostate). Estradiol levels can be elevated in

those supplementing with patches or gels/creams and less so in injections.

Your muscle problem sounded like statin damage, the more serious kind,

from lipitor, crestor, etc.

Steve

holybull@... wrote:

> No other drugs..oh btw..im 36 yrs old prostate is swollen aswell.

>>

>> diltsdoug wrote:

>>> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

>>> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

>>> effects. I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I

>>> have been noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle

>>> breakdown. Tops of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks

>>> concave, or indented and I have also expereinced some memory issues

>>> mostly short term. Its seems every time a take a shot a few days

>>> later my skin starts this tingly itch. I have had blood work done and

>>> doctors say everything is okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests

>>> there not doing that could be the issue. I would think they know

>>> where to look, but most of the doctors I have talked seem to have

>>> little knowledge in this field. If any one has any info that could be

>>> of help please do....thanks Doug

>> Are you taking a statin drug?

>>

>>

>> --

>>

>> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

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>

> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side effects.

> I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I have been

> noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle breakdown. Tops

> of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks concave, or indented

> and I have also expereinced some memory issues mostly short term. Its

> seems every time a take a shot a few days later my skin starts this

> tingly itch. I have had blood work done and doctors say everything is

> okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests there not doing that could

> be the issue. I would think they know where to look, but most of the

> doctors I have talked seem to have little knowledge in this field. If

> any one has any info that could be of help please do....thanks Doug

>

I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I found in

my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it out,

it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of polycythemia

is itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

" In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

(tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

feel any different afterward.

Mike

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Doug,

 

Right off, you need to have a E2 test.  You didn't tell us if you had one so we

are assuming you had a free & total testosterone test.  Phil would tell us to

have the E2 test and it should be around 20.  When it starts going above 30 we

may experience side effects.  I know I did.  I had short term memory loss and

the itchy, tingly feeling as well.  When I started to control that, both my

memory improved and the itchy feeling stopped.  E2 can cause a bunch of sides so

make sure you get one of those E2 test.

 

Now, I specifally ask my Doctor about the muscle breakdown.  He said he has

never heard of TRT causing muscle breakdown.  He said polycythemia is more of a

burn feeling and things like Mike said (vertigo, ringing in the ears, etc.) 

Please let us know about your progress on the muscle breakdown.  I can't find

anything that says TRT causes muscle breakdown.  All that said, I'm thinking

along the lines that TRT is administered within the upper third of an

individuals range.  That is very important as well.  I'm sure too much would

have certain side effects over a long period of time.

 

Keep us posted,

 

nvestnyuth

 

   

From: Mike <wolfyma@...>

Subject: Re: My probelm

Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:43 PM

>

> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side effects.

> I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I have been

> noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle breakdown. Tops

> of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks concave, or indented

> and I have also expereinced some memory issues mostly short term. Its

> seems every time a take a shot a few days later my skin starts this

> tingly itch. I have had blood work done and doctors say everything is

> okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests there not doing that could

> be the issue. I would think they know where to look, but most of the

> doctors I have talked seem to have little knowledge in this field. If

> any one has any info that could be of help please do....thanks Doug

>

I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I found in

my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it out,

it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of polycythemia

is itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

" In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

(tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

feel any different afterward.

Mike

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Doug,

 

Right off, you need to have a E2 test.  You didn't tell us if you had one so we

are assuming you had a free & total testosterone test.  Phil would tell us to

have the E2 test and it should be around 20.  When it starts going above 30 we

may experience side effects.  I know I did.  I had short term memory loss and

the itchy, tingly feeling as well.  When I started to control that, both my

memory improved and the itchy feeling stopped.  E2 can cause a bunch of sides so

make sure you get one of those E2 test.

 

Now, I specifally ask my Doctor about the muscle breakdown.  He said he has

never heard of TRT causing muscle breakdown.  He said polycythemia is more of a

burn feeling and things like Mike said (vertigo, ringing in the ears, etc.) 

Please let us know about your progress on the muscle breakdown.  I can't find

anything that says TRT causes muscle breakdown.  All that said, I'm thinking

along the lines that TRT is administered within the upper third of an

individuals range.  That is very important as well.  I'm sure too much would

have certain side effects over a long period of time.

 

Keep us posted,

 

nvestnyuth

 

   

From: Mike <wolfyma@...>

Subject: Re: My probelm

Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:43 PM

>

> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side effects.

> I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I have been

> noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle breakdown. Tops

> of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks concave, or indented

> and I have also expereinced some memory issues mostly short term. Its

> seems every time a take a shot a few days later my skin starts this

> tingly itch. I have had blood work done and doctors say everything is

> okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests there not doing that could

> be the issue. I would think they know where to look, but most of the

> doctors I have talked seem to have little knowledge in this field. If

> any one has any info that could be of help please do....thanks Doug

>

I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I found in

my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it out,

it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of polycythemia

is itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

" In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

(tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

feel any different afterward.

Mike

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Thanks for the info...you guys have been helpful...I have never had E2

done im very interested in getting that checked. I keep asking for more

tests but they act like they have covered them all. Is E2 the same as

Estradiol?thanks for the info...

> Doug,

>  

> Right off, you need to have a E2 test.  You didn't tell us if you had

> one so we are assuming you had a free & total testosterone test.  Phil

> would tell us to have the E2 test and it should be around 20.  When it

> starts going above 30 we may experience side effects.  I know I did.  I

> had short term memory loss and the itchy, tingly feeling as well.  When

> I started to control that, both my memory improved and the itchy

> feeling stopped.  E2 can cause a bunch of sides so make sure you get

> one of those E2 test.  

> Now, I specifally ask my Doctor about the muscle breakdown.  He said he

> has never heard of TRT causing muscle breakdown.  He said polycythemia

> is more of a burn feeling and things like Mike said (vertigo, ringing

> in the ears, etc.)  Please let us know about your progress on the

> muscle breakdown.  I can't find anything that says TRT causes muscle

> breakdown.  All that said, I'm thinking along the lines that TRT is

> administered within the upper third of an individuals range.  That is

> very important as well.  I'm sure too much would have certain side

> effects over a long period of time.  

> Keep us posted,

>  

> nvestnyuth

>  

>    

>

>

> From: Mike <wolfyma@...>

> Subject: Re: My probelm

>

> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:43 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

>> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

>> effects. I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I

>> have been noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle

>> breakdown. Tops of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks

>> concave, or indented and I have also expereinced some memory issues

>> mostly short term. Its seems every time a take a shot a few days

>> later my skin starts this tingly itch. I have had blood work done and

>> doctors say everything is okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests

>> there not doing that could be the issue. I would think they know

>> where to look, but most of the doctors I have talked seem to have

>> little knowledge in this field. If any one has any info that could be

>> of help please do....thanks Doug

>>

>

> I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I found in

> my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

> sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it out,

> it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of polycythemia is

> itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

>

> " In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

> weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

> (tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

> experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

>

> If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

> feel any different afterward.

>

> Mike

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Yes you are correct. E2 is estradiol - one of the isomers of estrogen. It 

however has the most impact. Other symptoms of high E2 is erection problems, low

libido and being emotional. You can see how it is easily confused with low T. My

E2 would track with my T. For example when my T got high (like 1400) my E2 was

57. When my T was low (180) my E2 was 30. I have to take arimidex to control it.

My body wants to convert it to the point that my ratio is out of wack. I do best

with a T to E2 of 25 to 30. with E2 20-30.

 

Arkansas

>

> From: Mike <wolfyma (DOT) com>

> Subject: Re: My probelm

>

> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:43 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

>> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

>> effects. I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I

>> have been noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle

>> breakdown. Tops of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks

>> concave, or indented and I have also expereinced some memory issues

>> mostly short term. Its seems every time a take a shot a few days

>> later my skin starts this tingly itch. I have had blood work done and

>> doctors say everything is okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests

>> there not doing that could be the issue. I would think they know

>> where to look, but most of the doctors I have talked seem to have

>> little knowledge in this field. If any one has any info that could be

>> of help please do....thanks Doug

>>

>

> I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I found in

> my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

> sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it out,

> it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of polycythemia is

> itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

>

> " In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

> weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

> (tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

> experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

>

> If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

> feel any different afterward.

>

> Mike

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Hi Dan,

This is off topic from what you are talking about, but did you feel any

benefit or any different with T levels up to your 1400? Mine is running

around 800 now (was 275), I have wondered if I could notice any

difference by going higher.

BTW, when my T was 275, my E2 was only 13. Now I have to control my E2

with Arimidex or it would be around high 50's.

Neil

Dan Meatheany wrote:

>

> Yes you are correct. E2 is estradiol - one of the isomers of estrogen.

> It however has the most impact. Other symptoms of high E2 is erection

> problems, low libido and being emotional. You can see how it is easily

> confused with low T. My E2 would track with my T. For example when my

> T got high (like 1400) my E2 was 57. When my T was low (180) my E2 was

> 30. I have to take arimidex to control it. My body wants to convert it

> to the point that my ratio is out of wack. I do best with a T to E2 of

> 25 to 30. with E2 20-30.

>

> Arkansas

>

>

> >

> > From: Mike <wolfyma (DOT) com>

> > Subject: Re: My probelm

> >

> > Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:43 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>

> >> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> >> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

> >> effects. I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I

> >> have been noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle

> >> breakdown. Tops of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks

> >> concave, or indented and I have also expereinced some memory issues

> >> mostly short term. Its seems every time a take a shot a few days

> >> later my skin starts this tingly itch. I have had blood work done and

> >> doctors say everything is okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests

> >> there not doing that could be the issue. I would think they know

> >> where to look, but most of the doctors I have talked seem to have

> >> little knowledge in this field. If any one has any info that could be

> >> of help please do....thanks Doug

> >>

> >

> > I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I found in

> > my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

> > sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it out,

> > it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of polycythemia is

> > itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

> >

> > " In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

> > weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

> > (tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

> > experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

> >

> > If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

> > feel any different afterward.

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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I don't keep mine there anymore - way too much E2 conversion. I was doing 100mg

shots every 7 days - was too much so dropped to 90mg then to 2 shots a week.

 

Really no big difference. I now bounce between 550 and 800.

> >

> > From: Mike <wolfyma (DOT) com>

> > Subject: Re: My probelm

> >

> > Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:43 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>

> >> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> >> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

> >> effects. I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I

> >> have been noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle

> >> breakdown. Tops of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks

> >> concave, or indented and I have also expereinced some memory issues

> >> mostly short term. Its seems every time a take a shot a few days

> >> later my skin starts this tingly itch. I have had blood work done and

> >> doctors say everything is okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests

> >> there not doing that could be the issue. I would think they know

> >> where to look, but most of the doctors I have talked seem to have

> >> little knowledge in this field. If any one has any info that could be

> >> of help please do....thanks Doug

> >>

> >

> > I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I found in

> > my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

> > sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it out,

> > it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of polycythemia is

> > itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

> >

> > " In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

> > weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

> > (tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

> > experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

> >

> > If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

> > feel any different afterward.

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Hi Dan,

I don't even have to go that far. I am still shooting 65mg every week 1/4

Arimidex every

8 days. That has kept me in the ball park for a long time now. Estriadol runs

around 18 to 22. Our bodies are all different it seems and mine first read 178

years ago on T. I only have to take blood every twice a year now and all is

well. I don't take HGC as you are so the

boys are small but I don't need them anymore at this age anyway. My mood is

always up and I feel fine except for Neuropathy in my feet.

Roy 

--

From: Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...>

Subject: Re: Re: My probelm

Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 9:14 PM

I don't keep mine there anymore - way too much E2 conversion. I was doing

100mg shots every 7 days - was too much so dropped to 90mg then to 2 shots a

week.

 

Really no big difference. I now bounce between 550 and 800.

> >

> > From: Mike <wolfyma (DOT) com>

> > Subject: Re: My probelm

> >

> > Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:43 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>

> >> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> >> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

> >> effects. I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not

sure. I

> >> have been noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle

> >> breakdown. Tops of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks

> >> concave, or indented and I have also expereinced some memory

issues

> >> mostly short term. Its seems every time a take a shot a few days

> >> later my skin starts this tingly itch. I have had blood work done

and

> >> doctors say everything is okay. Im not sure if there any blood

tests

> >> there not doing that could be the issue. I would think they know

> >> where to look, but most of the doctors I have talked seem to have

> >> little knowledge in this field. If any one has any info that

could be

> >> of help please do....thanks Doug

> >>

> >

> > I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I

found in

> > my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

> > sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it

out,

> > it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of

polycythemia is

> > itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

> >

> > " In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

> > weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

> > (tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

> > experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

> >

> > If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

> > feel any different afterward.

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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What is E2? I'd do anything to stop this itching and a better memory would be

good too.

Steph

From: Mike <wolfyma@...>

Subject: Re: My probelm

Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:43 PM

>

> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side effects.

> I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I have been

> noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle breakdown. Tops

> of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks concave, or indented

> and I have also expereinced some memory issues mostly short term. Its

> seems every time a take a shot a few days later my skin starts this

> tingly itch. I have had blood work done and doctors say everything is

> okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests there not doing that could

> be the issue. I would think they know where to look, but most of the

> doctors I have talked seem to have little knowledge in this field. If

> any one has any info that could be of help please do....thanks Doug

>

I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I found in

my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it out,

it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of polycythemia

is itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

" In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

(tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

feel any different afterward.

Mike

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This is interesting because I have asked my endo to check my Oestrogen levels

several times, but he always says it is not necessary. Is E2 and Ostrogen one

and the same?

Steph

>

> From: Mike <wolfyma (DOT) com>

> Subject: Re: My probelm

>

> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:43 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

>> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

>> effects. I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I

>> have been noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle

>> breakdown. Tops of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks

>> concave, or indented and I have also expereinced some memory issues

>> mostly short term. Its seems every time a take a shot a few days

>> later my skin starts this tingly itch. I have had blood work done and

>> doctors say everything is okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests

>> there not doing that could be the issue. I would think they know

>> where to look, but most of the doctors I have talked seem to have

>> little knowledge in this field. If any one has any info that could be

>> of help please do....thanks Doug

>>

>

> I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I found in

> my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

> sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it out,

> it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of polycythemia

is

> itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

>

> " In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

> weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

> (tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

> experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

>

> If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

> feel any different afterward.

>

> Mike

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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I have neuropathy in my feet and legs from which I am confined to a wheelchair.

I believe that it's the high dose of T that is the cause. Even my (now retired)

Rhuematologist did not rule it out entirely, but in his own words it was not

really his field. He did suggest though that in his professional opinion it

seemed worthy of a research programme.

Steph

> >

> > From: Mike <wolfyma (DOT) com>

> > Subject: Re: My probelm

> >

> > Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:43 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>

> >> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> >> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

> >> effects. I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not

sure. I

> >> have been noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle

> >> breakdown. Tops of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks

> >> concave, or indented and I have also expereinced some memory

issues

> >> mostly short term. Its seems every time a take a shot a few days

> >> later my skin starts this tingly itch. I have had blood work done

and

> >> doctors say everything is okay. Im not sure if there any blood

tests

> >> there not doing that could be the issue. I would think they know

> >> where to look, but most of the doctors I have talked seem to have

> >> little knowledge in this field. If any one has any info that

could be

> >> of help please do....thanks Doug

> >>

> >

> > I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I

found in

> > my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

> > sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it

out,

> > it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of

polycythemia is

> > itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

> >

> > " In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

> > weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

> > (tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

> > experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

> >

> > If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

> > feel any different afterward.

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Muscle waste is all over my body. Legs, thighs and arms. More prominent in upper

arms. I have also been rapidly losing weight over the last 2 years or so. Gone

from a 36' waist to a 30' without trying to lose weight. The muscle waste can

clearly be seen in my thighs and upper arms. My niece recently commented that I

look like a rake.

Now even my jaw is hurting when I chew. All my muscles are breaking down and not

a great deal being done about it. Medics do not know what the underlying cause

is. I believe it's long term use of T or the high dose. Now that I have come

across you, that gives us more power over the medics. Perhaps at the very least

they should give it some serious thought.

Steph

From: holybull@... <holybull@...>

Subject: Re: Re: My probelm

Date: Monday, 8 December, 2008, 12:55 AM

Thats sounds just like the problems I have been going thru with long term

testosterone use. I have had same skin itching. Was also prescribed

different itching creams..Where was your muscle waste? What have you done

since?

> I think you and I should have a chat. My skin often itches from head to

> toe and blood tests have revealed nothing. For years I was prescribed

> a host of different anti-histamine medications, none of which did any

> good. I have often wondered if it's a side effect of T.

> i also have marked muscle waste. The more people we can find who have

> these symptoms and who are recieving T replacement, the more likely

> medics will take us seriously when we say that we believe the cause

> could be coming from the T replacement.

>

> My previous Consultant now retired believed that the muscle wasting was

> deserving of a research programme and while he wouldn't agree that

the

> T was the sole cause of the muscle wasting, neither did he rule it out

> entirely. However as Arthritis etc was his field and he knew very

> little about Klinefelters, I understood his position in the matter.

>

> Steph (Glasgow)

>

>

>>

>> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

>> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

> effects.

>> I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I have been

>> noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle breakdown.

> Tops

>> of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks concave, or indented

>> and I have also expereinced some memory issues mostly short term. Its

>> seems every time a take a shot a few days later my skin starts this

>> tingly itch. I have had blood work done and doctors say everything is

>> okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests there not doing that could

>> be the issue. I would think they know where to look, but most of the

>> doctors I have talked seem to have little knowledge in this field. If

>> any one has any info that could be of help please do....thanks Doug

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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Ditto!

My GP, I learned today, is referring me to a skin specialist. I will bring this

itching issue to their attention as well as my endo. Watch this space.....

Phew, I think I have responded to more than a dozen Emails and I was planning an

early night too.....I think a cup of cocoa is the way to go and so to

bed......zzzzzzzzz

Steph

From: holybull@... <holybull@...>

Subject: Re: Re: My probelm

Date: Monday, 8 December, 2008, 12:57 AM

Any help would be appreciated.........

> I think it would be a good idea to make copies of messages in regard to

> these issues. We could then show these to medics. With that in mind,

> may I have your permission to print out your initial message? It goes

> without saying that anyone here is at liberty to print off anything

> that I post.

>

> Steph (Glasgow)

>

>

>>

>> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

>> years..........................

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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I don't have a bath (shower only) and quite often this itch drives me round the

bend. There is no rash or raised welts of any kind. Nothing can be seen, but

sometimes I feel like my skin is crawling. It's doing it now. I am very tired,

but I just know that the itch is going to disturb my sleep, if I get to sleep in

the first place. I'm not sure that it is polycythemia. I firmly believe now that

it's a direct side effect of T and I aim to find the answer.

Steph

From: Mike <wolfyma@...>

Subject: Re: My probelm

Date: Monday, 8 December, 2008, 7:43 PM

>

> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side effects.

> I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not sure. I have been

> noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle breakdown. Tops

> of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks concave, or indented

> and I have also expereinced some memory issues mostly short term. Its

> seems every time a take a shot a few days later my skin starts this

> tingly itch. I have had blood work done and doctors say everything is

> okay. Im not sure if there any blood tests there not doing that could

> be the issue. I would think they know where to look, but most of the

> doctors I have talked seem to have little knowledge in this field. If

> any one has any info that could be of help please do....thanks Doug

>

I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I found in

my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it out,

it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of polycythemia

is itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

" In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

(tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

feel any different afterward.

Mike

------------------------------------

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Sorry, Neuropathy is in my feet, not my legs. The Neuropathy has

caused damage to the nerve endings in my limbs.

Steph (Glasgow)

> > >>

> > >> Im a hypogonadol male, I have been using testosterone for over 10

> > >> years. The last five months I have been expereincing some side

> > >> effects. I would assume its from the testosterone but Im not

> sure. I

> > >> have been noticing on different parts of my body I can see muscle

> > >> breakdown. Tops of hands, biceps, and inner thighs, kinda looks

> > >> concave, or indented and I have also expereinced some memory

> issues

> > >> mostly short term. Its seems every time a take a shot a few days

> > >> later my skin starts this tingly itch. I have had blood work done

> and

> > >> doctors say everything is okay. Im not sure if there any blood

> tests

> > >> there not doing that could be the issue. I would think they know

> > >> where to look, but most of the doctors I have talked seem to have

> > >> little knowledge in this field. If any one has any info that

> could be

> > >> of help please do....thanks Doug

> > >>

> > >

> > > I'm pretty reluctant to give medical advice, but one thing I

> found in

> > > my research on TRT is that polycythemia is a listed side effect. Not

> > > sure how common it is and if you've had blood tests to rule it

> out,

> > > it's probably not the issue. But one of the symptoms of

> polycythemia is

> > > itching. This is from the webmd article on polycythemia:

> > >

> > > " In most cases, affected individuals may experience headaches,

> > > weakness, dizziness (vertigo), and/or a ringing noise in the ear

> > > (tinnitus). In some cases, individuals with polycythemia vera

> > > experience itching (pruritis), especially after a hot bath. "

> > >

> > > If you are eligible, you might consider donating blood to see if you

> > > feel any different afterward.

> > >

> > > Mike

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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