Re: More blitherings about carnitine and the mechanism of how viruses may affect apraxia

December 27, 2011

i started my child on l-acetyl carnitine and while it seems to b helping the swollen belly, and possibly better bowel movements, she also seems more spacey and autistic. any thoughts about this?

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From:

Alberta ;

To:

m12valtrex <mb12valtrex >; Trying_Low_Oxalates <Trying_Low_Oxalates >;

Subject:

More blitherings about carnitine and the mechanism of how viruses may affect apraxia

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Tue, Dec 27, 2011 8:56:07 AM

I was reading this interesting article:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDN/is_1_10/ai_n13557321/?tag=content;col1

Somewhere in the article, it said this:

" Synthesis of carnitine begins with methylation of the amino acid

L-lysine by S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe). Magnesium, vitamin C, iron,

vitamins B3 and B6, and alpha-ketoglutarate--along with the cofactors

responsible for creating SAMe (methionine, folic acid, vitamin B12,

and betaine)--are all required for endogenous carnitine synthesis. "

I'm thinking then...if a person has a tendency to be viral (I know

some of our kids do), and if they've been quite consistently overrun

by viruses (because of a compromised immune system), then it would

likely impact carnitine synthesis?

The article went on to say that carnitine helps the body process your

Branched Chain Amino Acids (leucine, isoleucine and valine). So if

there is something in your body depleting lysine, then your ability to

metabolize your BCAA's shuts down, because the lysine levels will keep

falling

So if carnitine starts dropping because of low lysine, then it can

impact the the metabolism of your BCAA, and because your BCAA's help

to produce neurotransmitters.

So you start with something that causes a compromised immune system,

you eventually get exposed to viruses that deplete lysine (vaccines,

contact in the natural environment) and then without anything to keep

the viruses in check, the virus population grows, it depletes lysine

some more, no lysine available to act with SAMe to create carnitine

and then fatty acids metabolism (another function of carnitine) and

metabolism of the BCAA's shuts down because carnitine's not available.

Similarly, if another variable is missing (like B6), it would likely

start showing up as endogenous oxalate production, but then, that's

double whammy situation where you now have oxalates which are going

into the mitochondrion and physically impairing mito functions, and

then you'll have no B6 to complete other metabolic processes like

breaking down other amino acids (which require B6).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a big " this really sucks "

situation waiting to happen? I can see now how low B6 alone would

stop neurotransmitter production from several points.

And I've read from other sources that for lysine to be absorbed

properly and made bioavailable, you need adequate stores of B6, niacin

(b3), riboflavin (b2), and vitamin C (which many people with oxalates

are low in because vitamin C is converting to oxalate). So if you're

low in any of those to begin with, then your lysine isn't being

properly absorbed -- wouldn't this be the beginning of a vicious

cycle? One of your B's are low, then you aren't using lysine

properly, and then come into contact with a virus, which then depletes

your lysine even more, then carnitine production shuts down more.

I think this might have been what happened to my son. I think

something had caused him to start stimming and then I started him on

GFCF without starting a b-complex, all his food sources of his B's

were suddenly gone from the grains, and then carnitine production

stopped. I removed dairy from his diet and that was removing another

variable, which was cysteine (which should have been there to produce

methionine to make SAMe) and when I removed dairy, that was the straw

that broke the camel's back. I think that's why he lost so much

weight and I really started seeing the more scary symptoms of autism

come out. While he was gluten-free, he had stopped the hand flapping,

but for some reason, I felt the need to be casein-free, too, and I

think maybe that was a VERY bad idea for him.

And for Maia...I can see holes from everything that was listed there

for carnitine production. It seems quite obvious to me now why she

has apraxia. Low B6, low niacin, low vit C (that I can't really

supplement to bring up the levels), low AKG (and subsequently high

ammonia), exposure to virus as a baby that resulted in roseola rashes

(so probably low lysine too that showed up on her amino profile).

Man, anything I throw into the mix would be an improvement...almost

every variable that is needed to produce carnitine in this kid is just

not there! And she's making oxalates endogenously! So many angles

for things to have gone wrong! And I haven't even factored in the

effect of minerals here....this makes my head hurt just thinking about

it.

But the good news is that things are getting better as I'm putting in

more of the variables for her carnitine production (and to

subsequently help her metabolize her BCAA's). I used to not notice

the difference when I'd add magnesium or not (I think because

everything else was so bad from so many angles). But the last few

weeks, I'm seeing quite a significant difference on days when she gets

enough magnesium and the days where she doesn't. So maybe it's that

the other variables are there now and magnesium is the only low

variable and it needs to be there for the processes to be completed to

break down some of the essential aminos (especially leucine).

Anyway, I'm trying to wrap my brain around all this and it's finally

starting to make some sense to me. Just thought I'd post it to sort

it out in my head, too. (Writing it down helps me to think about it

better).

December 27, 2011

I'm guessing here, but maybe yeast? Some people have said that it

causes yeast flares in their kids. I'm not entirely sure, though -- I

haven't seen this specifically with carnitine in my kids, although

they do get this way with yeast or undigested proteins from other

things.

> i started my child on l-acetyl carnitine and while it seems to b helping the

> swollen belly, and possibly better bowel movements, she also seems more

> spacey and autistic. any thoughts about this?

>

December 27, 2011

Great post, Alberta. As us Rhode Islander's like to say "You're wickid smaht" : )-Tammy To: m12valtrex <mb12valtrex >; Trying_Low_Oxalates <Trying_Low_Oxalates > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 3:56 AM Subject: More blitherings about

carnitine and the mechanism of how viruses may affect apraxia

I was reading this interesting article:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDN/is_1_10/ai_n13557321/?tag=content;col1

Somewhere in the article, it said this:

"Synthesis of carnitine begins with methylation of the amino acid

L-lysine by S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe). Magnesium, vitamin C, iron,

vitamins B3 and B6, and alpha-ketoglutarate--along with the cofactors

responsible for creating SAMe (methionine, folic acid, vitamin B12,

and betaine)--are all required for endogenous carnitine synthesis."

December 27, 2011

L-acetyl carnitine (alcar) makes my son quite " off. " L-Carnitine is fine. Alberta suggested to me that I use both and ride it out to see if it improves. He has seizure activity in the brain and the ALCAR makes him seem like I'm not giving him the B6. Maybe the ALCAR interferes with or uses the B6 quicker or something. When we added B6, his spacey/autistic behavior went away. When we added ALCAR to that mix, his behaviors came back. When we took ALCAR away, B6 did the trick again. So we just give him L-carnitine now... will try Alberta's suggestion later.