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Re: Nutri-meds vs Armour Vs Thyro-Gold vs T4 Please Help

5 replies to this topic      (1,681 views)

#1 *guest

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 10:11 AM

Thank you for the reply. Actually I do not have the hypothyrodism. Its is my
sister who does. But she is so mentally affected that she cannot post in the
forum. In her case the thyroid has been removed.
So is fully dependent on a thyroid substitute of some kind.

But I am trying to compare. Erfa with Thyroid Gold and Nutri-Meds
Dessicated Pocine Capcules, in terms of strengh and dose. I am waiting for the
Erfa Thyroid to arrive, but I already have the Nutri-Meds one. But she is too
scared to take it without seeing a Doctor first. Here own doctors are totally
useless. The have never even heard of Armour and would not prescribe it as it is
not in there database. I tried to contact Dr Peatfield but he is on holiday this
weak. Can you send me the contact details for Dr Skinner please.



>
> Who on earth is looking after your sister and can you let us have the
> results of recent thyroid function tests together with the reference range
> for each test done. Has she been tested to see whether she has thyroid
> antibodies (TPO, TgAb) especially as you too have hypothyroidism. If not,
> she must get tested to see if she has Hashimoto's disease. If she has
> antibodies, she should know that antibodies thrive on gluten so if she is
> eating a diet high in gluten, she might wish to consider going on a gluten
> free diet.
>
>

#2 *guest

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 11:51 AM

Who
on earth is looking after your sister and can you let us have the results of
recent thyroid function tests together with the reference range for each test
done. Has she been tested to see whether she has thyroid antibodies (TPO, TgAb)
especially as you too have hypothyroidism. If not, she must get tested to see
if she has Hashimoto's disease. If she has antibodies, she should know that
antibodies thrive on gluten so if she is eating a diet high in gluten, she
might wish to consider going on a gluten free diet.
Is
there the slightest chance she could see Dr Peatfield or Dr Skinner (our
medical advisers?)
There
are MANY reasons and many medical conditions associated with thyroid disease
that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells, where it does its work.
I mention these over and over and over again - ad nauseum - people must be
bored with the same old, same old but as each new member joins us, they need to
know.
The
main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from working, is, quite
simply, a patients thyroxine dose is too low because the doctor or consultant
refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid function test results appear
OK. Sometimes, the thyroxine dose is too high, yet patients still don't feel
well. They continue to suffer. Some reasons for this:
They
may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its conversion
to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal hormones,
notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production down,
however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding properly, and
provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But sometimes it doesn’t.
If the illness has been going on for a long time, the enzyme seems to
fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably denied by many
endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up, unconverted. So it
doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis results. This makes the patient feel quite
unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest pain. If provision of adrenal
support doesn’t remedy the situation, the final solution is the use of
the active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3 - either synthetic or natural.
Then,
we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, a yeast, which
causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of the
lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the
candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be
fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible
sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many
symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the
uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we
usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to
achieve until adequately treated.
Then
there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being hypothyroid
for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms which permit the
binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3 won’t go
in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support and adequate
vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again. But this can
be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the dose up
gradually.
And
then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to
gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a
process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme,
(which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make
you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect,
but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to
certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and
uptake.
Then
we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked; each
part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work
properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone.
But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that
occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative
dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance
downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones.
This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms
ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra
oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most
especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance,
improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses
osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when
used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.
Then,
we must never forget the possibility of mercury poisoning (through amalgam
fillings) - low levels of iron, ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium,
folate, copper and zinc - all of which, if low, stop the thyroid hormone from
being utilised by the cells - these have to be treated. Your sister should ask
her GP to test these specific minerals/vitamins and if s/he says that there is
no connection between these and low thyroid, tell her to copy out the references
below to show that there is.
As
Dr Peatfield says " When you have been quite unwell for a long time, all
these problems have to be dealt with; and since each may affect the other, it
all has to be done rather carefully.
Contrary
to cherished beliefs by much of the medical establishment, the correction of a
thyroid deficiency state has a number of complexities and variables, which make
the treatment usually quite specific for each person. The balancing of
these variables is as much up to you as to me – which is why a check of
morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with symptoms,
good and bad, can be so helpful.
Many
of you have been ill for a long time, either because you have not been
diagnosed, or the treatment leaves you still quite unwell. Those of you
who have relatively mild hypothyroidism, and have been diagnosed relatively quickly,
may well respond to synthetic thyroxine, the standard treatment. I am
therefore unlikely to see you; since if the thyroxine proves satisfactory in
use, it is merely a question of dosage. For many of you, the outstanding
problem is not that the diagnosis has not been made – although,
extraordinarily, this is disgracefully common – but that is has, and the
thyroxine treatment doesn’t work. The dose has been altered up and
down, and clinical improvement is variable and doesn’t last, in spite of
blood tests, which say you are perfectly all right (and therefore you are
actually depressed and need this fine antidepressant).
The
above problems must be eliminated if thyroid hormone isn't working for you.
Luv
- Sheila
References
to specific minerals/vitamins and the thyroid connection: Low iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is
shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels,
and block the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone
(1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a
ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels.
Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron
deficiency is present (1-4)).
1.
Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron
deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative
and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.
2.
SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic
thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary fat.
Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.
3.
Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium
Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to
Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.
4.
Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone
Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.
Low vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18655403

Low vitamin D3: http://www.eje-onlin...tract/113/3/329
and http://www.goodhormo...om/VitaminD.pdf

Low magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm....t00264-0105.pdf

Low folate: http://www.clinchem..../full/47/9/1738
and http://www.lieberton...thy.1999.9.1163

Low  copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm
http://www.drlwilson...ty_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm
http://www.rjpbcs.co...011_2(2)/68.pdf
http://ajplegacy.phy...1/3/652.extract
Low zinc:http://www.istanbul....7 Iham AMİR.pdf
and http://articles.webr...d_Function.html




I am writing on behalf of my sister who has been taking T4 for 5 months after
having her thyroid removed. She has been on doses of 125, 100, 75 and now 150.
All does have had the same result of basically turning her practically insane.
She can't remember or recognise where she lives. Not even her own apartment.
But now that she is on 150 dosage she is also has a resting heart rate of 95
per minute. When previously it was 64.

She is too scared to come off the synthetic T4 as she thinks she will instantly
fall into a coma. Yet her whole life is falling apart while she continues to
take it. She now has to be supervised 24/7.

We are waiting for the Armour to arrive. But I already have some dissicated
porcine capsules from Nutri-med.com that contains T1 T2 T3 and T4. But I have
read in places that it is much weaker than Armour.
Maybe about 4 times weaker.

Has anyone used the nutri-meds product with success. Is it safe to come off T4
and go onto nutrimeds. I have already had her on the Adrenal support for a few
days in preparation for Armour or Nutrimeds.

Our worry is that because the Nutri-meds is weak that coming of the T$ and going
onto the Nutri-meds might no provide enough or the hormone to keep her safe.
Please advise.

There is also another product called Thyro-Gold. Apparently this is stronger
than the nutri-med product and about the same as Armour.
Please advise.

#3 *guest

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 09:19 AM

Hi

What is your name,first of all? And your sister's?


Are you saying that each and every dose of T4 has had exactly the same effect on
your sister, ie, 75mcg does the same as 150mcg?


I wonder what is going on there. Can you advise what brand of T4 she is taking?
I wonder if she allergic to something in it. Allergies can mess things up big
time.


How was your sister before the removal of thyroid? are you saying her healht
was fine before that? Why was her thyroid removed?


have you researched adrenal problems, could that be a reason why your sistr is
having these problems? Without cortisol support, my mind suffers. Has your
sister been checked for adrenal antibodies?




> Has anyone used the nutri-meds product with success. Is it safe to come off T4
and go onto nutrimeds. I have already had her on the Adrenal support for a few
days in preparation for Armour or Nutrimeds.


you need to find out what is going on here - with the Armour, T4, etc, you know
exactly what is in them, but as far as i'm concerned, it could be any amount of
t4 or t3 or t2 (or nothing) in the other supplements.


> Our worry is that because the Nutri-meds is weak that coming of the T$ and
going onto the Nutri-meds might no provide enough or the hormone to keep her
safe. Please advise.


What does her GP say? First things i'd check is is this an allergy to
something in the meds, and are her adrenals ok? It says on thyroid meds not to
take them if you have adrenal problems. I would consult the gp and ask about
both asap. do her symptoms fit adrenal issues? (i mean when you say she's
going practically insane)


Chris

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 09:03 AM


>
> I tried to contact Dr Peatfield but he is on holiday this weak. Can you send
me the contact details for Dr Skinner please.
>
You must be so very worried.

I cannot advise you I'm afraid as my situtation is very different, but you
obviously need advice now. It seems that the way to draw attention to a query
that goes unnoticed is to type BUMPING in the message line and post your
question again.

Yous sister's plight clearly needs very urgent attention, so why not try posting
again?

All the best to you and your sister.

#5 *guest

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 09:25 AM

Dr Skinner's details are on here, but he'll need a referral, and don't think
he'll treat or test adrenal problems

chris

http://www.thyroid-i...itedkingdom.htm


>
I tried to contact Dr Peatfield but he is on holiday this weak. Can you send me
the contact details for Dr Skinner please.
>

#6 gabbymom

gabbymom

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:58 AM

She is probably on the verge of hashimoto's encephelopy or mydexema coma. Either Is dangerous. Probably more likely not encephelopy because the thyroid has been removed. She is experiencing increased slowing in her brain because she is not coverting the t4 into t3. T3 is the only thing our body can use. She needs to get on a natural thyroid quickly. No glandulars No nutrimeds no thyro gold etc. She will need Armour thyroid I'm quessing a dose of 120 mg or more. and Asap. Call and find a doctor who is willing to prescribe.



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