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Re: Nutri-meds vs Armour Vs Thyro-Gold vs T4 Please Help

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Who

on earth is looking after your sister and can you let us have the results of

recent thyroid function tests together with the reference range for each test

done. Has she been tested to see whether she has thyroid antibodies (TPO, TgAb)

especially as you too have hypothyroidism. If not, she must get tested to see

if she has Hashimoto's disease. If she has antibodies, she should know that

antibodies thrive on gluten so if she is eating a diet high in gluten, she

might wish to consider going on a gluten free diet.

Is

there the slightest chance she could see Dr Peatfield or Dr Skinner (our

medical advisers?)

There

are MANY reasons and many medical conditions associated with thyroid disease

that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells, where it does its work.

I mention these over and over and over again - ad nauseum - people must be

bored with the same old, same old but as each new member joins us, they need to

know.

The

main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from working, is, quite

simply, a patients thyroxine dose is too low because the doctor or consultant

refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid function test results appear

OK. Sometimes, the thyroxine dose is too high, yet patients still don't feel

well. They continue to suffer. Some reasons for this:

They

may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its conversion

to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal hormones,

notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production down,

however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding properly, and

provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But sometimes it doesn’t.

If the illness has been going on for a long time, the enzyme seems to

fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably denied by many

endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up, unconverted. So it

doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis results. This makes the patient feel quite

unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest pain. If provision of adrenal

support doesn’t remedy the situation, the final solution is the use of

the active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3 - either synthetic or natural.

Then,

we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, a yeast, which

causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of the

lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the

candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be

fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible

sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many

symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the

uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we

usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to

achieve until adequately treated.

Then

there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being hypothyroid

for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms which permit the

binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3 won’t go

in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support and adequate

vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again. But this can

be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the dose up

gradually.

And

then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to

gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a

process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme,

(which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make

you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect,

but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to

certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and

uptake.

Then

we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked; each

part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work

properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone.

But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that

occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative

dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance

downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones.

This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms

ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra

oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most

especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance,

improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses

osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when

used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

Then,

we must never forget the possibility of mercury poisoning (through amalgam

fillings) - low levels of iron, ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium,

folate, copper and zinc - all of which, if low, stop the thyroid hormone from

being utilised by the cells - these have to be treated. Your sister should ask

her GP to test these specific minerals/vitamins and if s/he says that there is

no connection between these and low thyroid, tell her to copy out the references

below to show that there is.

As

Dr Peatfield says " When you have been quite unwell for a long time, all

these problems have to be dealt with; and since each may affect the other, it

all has to be done rather carefully.

Contrary

to cherished beliefs by much of the medical establishment, the correction of a

thyroid deficiency state has a number of complexities and variables, which make

the treatment usually quite specific for each person. The balancing of

these variables is as much up to you as to me – which is why a check of

morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with symptoms,

good and bad, can be so helpful.

Many

of you have been ill for a long time, either because you have not been

diagnosed, or the treatment leaves you still quite unwell. Those of you

who have relatively mild hypothyroidism, and have been diagnosed relatively quickly,

may well respond to synthetic thyroxine, the standard treatment. I am

therefore unlikely to see you; since if the thyroxine proves satisfactory in

use, it is merely a question of dosage. For many of you, the outstanding

problem is not that the diagnosis has not been made – although,

extraordinarily, this is disgracefully common – but that is has, and the

thyroxine treatment doesn’t work. The dose has been altered up and

down, and clinical improvement is variable and doesn’t last, in spite of

blood tests, which say you are perfectly all right (and therefore you are

actually depressed and need this fine antidepressant).

The

above problems must be eliminated if thyroid hormone isn't working for you.

Luv

- Sheila

References

to specific minerals/vitamins and the thyroid connection: Low iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is

shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels,

and block the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone

(1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a

ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels.

Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron

deficiency is present (1-4)).

1.

Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron

deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative

and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2.

SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic

thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary fat.

Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3.

Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium

Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to

Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4.

Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone

Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.

Low vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low  copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

I am writing on behalf of my sister who has been taking T4 for 5 months after

having her thyroid removed. She has been on doses of 125, 100, 75 and now 150.

All does have had the same result of basically turning her practically insane.

She can't remember or recognise where she lives. Not even her own apartment.

But now that she is on 150 dosage she is also has a resting heart rate of 95

per minute. When previously it was 64.

She is too scared to come off the synthetic T4 as she thinks she will instantly

fall into a coma. Yet her whole life is falling apart while she continues to

take it. She now has to be supervised 24/7.

We are waiting for the Armour to arrive. But I already have some dissicated

porcine capsules from Nutri-med.com that contains T1 T2 T3 and T4. But I have

read in places that it is much weaker than Armour.

Maybe about 4 times weaker.

Has anyone used the nutri-meds product with success. Is it safe to come off T4

and go onto nutrimeds. I have already had her on the Adrenal support for a few

days in preparation for Armour or Nutrimeds.

Our worry is that because the Nutri-meds is weak that coming of the T$ and going

onto the Nutri-meds might no provide enough or the hormone to keep her safe.

Please advise.

There is also another product called Thyro-Gold. Apparently this is stronger

than the nutri-med product and about the same as Armour.

Please advise.

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Posted · Report post

Thank you for the reply. Actually I do not have the hypothyrodism. Its is my

sister who does. But she is so mentally affected that she cannot post in the

forum. In her case the thyroid has been removed.

So is fully dependent on a thyroid substitute of some kind.

But I am trying to compare. Erfa with Thyroid Gold and Nutri-Meds

Dessicated Pocine Capcules, in terms of strengh and dose. I am waiting for the

Erfa Thyroid to arrive, but I already have the Nutri-Meds one. But she is too

scared to take it without seeing a Doctor first. Here own doctors are totally

useless. The have never even heard of Armour and would not prescribe it as it is

not in there database. I tried to contact Dr Peatfield but he is on holiday this

weak. Can you send me the contact details for Dr Skinner please.

>

> Who on earth is looking after your sister and can you let us have the

> results of recent thyroid function tests together with the reference range

> for each test done. Has she been tested to see whether she has thyroid

> antibodies (TPO, TgAb) especially as you too have hypothyroidism. If not,

> she must get tested to see if she has Hashimoto's disease. If she has

> antibodies, she should know that antibodies thrive on gluten so if she is

> eating a diet high in gluten, she might wish to consider going on a gluten

> free diet.

>

>

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Posted · Report post

>

> I tried to contact Dr Peatfield but he is on holiday this weak. Can you send

me the contact details for Dr Skinner please.

>

You must be so very worried.

I cannot advise you I'm afraid as my situtation is very different, but you

obviously need advice now. It seems that the way to draw attention to a query

that goes unnoticed is to type BUMPING in the message line and post your

question again.

Yous sister's plight clearly needs very urgent attention, so why not try posting

again?

All the best to you and your sister.

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Posted · Report post

Hi

What is your name,first of all? And your sister's?

Are you saying that each and every dose of T4 has had exactly the same effect on

your sister, ie, 75mcg does the same as 150mcg?

I wonder what is going on there. Can you advise what brand of T4 she is taking?

I wonder if she allergic to something in it. Allergies can mess things up big

time.

How was your sister before the removal of thyroid? are you saying her healht

was fine before that? Why was her thyroid removed?

have you researched adrenal problems, could that be a reason why your sistr is

having these problems? Without cortisol support, my mind suffers. Has your

sister been checked for adrenal antibodies?

> Has anyone used the nutri-meds product with success. Is it safe to come off T4

and go onto nutrimeds. I have already had her on the Adrenal support for a few

days in preparation for Armour or Nutrimeds.

you need to find out what is going on here - with the Armour, T4, etc, you know

exactly what is in them, but as far as i'm concerned, it could be any amount of

t4 or t3 or t2 (or nothing) in the other supplements.

> Our worry is that because the Nutri-meds is weak that coming of the T$ and

going onto the Nutri-meds might no provide enough or the hormone to keep her

safe. Please advise.

What does her GP say? First things i'd check is is this an allergy to

something in the meds, and are her adrenals ok? It says on thyroid meds not to

take them if you have adrenal problems. I would consult the gp and ask about

both asap. do her symptoms fit adrenal issues? (i mean when you say she's

going practically insane)

Chris

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Posted · Report post

Dr Skinner's details are on here, but he'll need a referral, and don't think

he'll treat or test adrenal problems

chris

http://www.thyroid-info.com/topdrs/unitedkingdom.htm

>

I tried to contact Dr Peatfield but he is on holiday this weak. Can you send me

the contact details for Dr Skinner please.

>

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Posted · Report post

She is probably on the verge of hashimoto's encephelopy or mydexema coma. Either Is dangerous. Probably more likely not encephelopy because the thyroid has been removed. She is experiencing increased slowing in her brain because she is not coverting the t4 into t3. T3 is the only thing our body can use. She needs to get on a natural thyroid quickly. No glandulars No nutrimeds no thyro gold etc. She will need Armour thyroid I'm quessing a dose of 120 mg or more. and Asap. Call and find a doctor who is willing to prescribe.

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