Re: help? -- iodine and Neanderthals and animals

[Guest guest]

, I did not know that "most mammals and birds do ok living inland, but humans don't."

If this is true, it is probably due to a variable other than iodine. My impression is that even fish -- and certainly cattle, horses, dogs, cats, mice, pigs, and chickens -- need iodine.

Venturi talks about iodine and evolution and suggests that the mechanisms for trapping iodine were essential in evolution of vertebrates. He is talking about ALL vertebrates -- not just humans. Here is one small related quote:

"When some primitive marine vertebrates started to emerge from the iodine-rich sea and transferred to iodine-deficient fresh water, and finally land, their diet became iodine deficient and also harboured vegetable iodide-competitors such as nitrates, nitrites, thiocyanates, and some glycosides (12). Hence, these animals needed an efficient thyroid gland as reservoir of iodine."

http://iodine4health.com/research/venturi_2000_environmental_iodine_deficiency.rtf

Here is the page that links to several related Venturi articles:

http://iodine4health.com/special/venturi_evolution.htm

So unless you have some good evidence to the contrary, it seems to me that adequate iodine is important for all vertebrates.

Zoe

----- Original Message -----

From:

[Guest guest]

Hi all.

I'm going to throw this out there and probably create a little

controversy- completely not intended, but this is info that most

people, unless they're Equine vets, probably don't know...

Horses can live indefinitely without a thyroid gland.

Does that mean that they don't need iodine? I suspect not, although

it would make for an interesting question to my Vet researcher friends.

Currently there is metabolic research at the University of Missouri

Columbia vet college where several horses, several years ago, were

completely thyroidectomized. How do they survive? No one is for

sure, only that they do, and happily so. We have known this is

possible for many, many years, yet my question is, how! How does this

reflect upon our need for iodine, and all those other questions??

Yes, the horses are completely hypOthyroid, yet unlike other mammals,

including humans, they do not go into myxedema coma and die. It will

be very interesting to see what the research reveals. Too bad the

purpose of the research is only for the sake of animals. I would

think humans would be as well served...

E (Ellen in Missouri)

>

> , I did not know that " most mammals and birds do ok living

inland, but humans don't. "

>

> If this is true, it is probably due to a variable other than iodine.

My impression is that even fish -- and certainly cattle, horses,

dogs, cats, mice, pigs, and chickens -- need iodine.

>

> Venturi talks about iodine and evolution and suggests that the

mechanisms for trapping iodine were essential in evolution of

vertebrates. He is talking about ALL vertebrates -- not just humans.

Here is one small related quote:

> " When some primitive marine vertebrates started to emerge from the

iodine-rich sea and transferred to iodine-deficient fresh water, and

finally land, their diet became iodine deficient and also harboured

vegetable iodide-competitors such as nitrates, nitrites, thiocyanates,

and some glycosides (12). Hence, these animals needed an efficient

thyroid gland as reservoir of iodine. "

>

http://iodine4health.com/research/venturi_2000_environmental_iodine_deficiency.r\

tf

> Here is the page that links to several related Venturi articles:

> http://iodine4health.com/special/venturi_evolution.htm

>

> So unless you have some good evidence to the contrary, it seems to

me that adequate iodine is important for all vertebrates.

>

> Zoe

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From:

[Guest guest]

I have also heard that

horses don’t deal with stress very well… That a bad scare can kill one

(sort of like rabbits) or a severe chill after a run… Perhaps this

is what has been traded off? Because isn’t the thyroid/adrenal

system all about dealing with stresses such as these?

ellen

wrote:

Horses can live indefinitely without a thyroid gland.

Does that mean that they don't need iodine? I suspect not, although

it would make for an interesting question to my Vet researcher friends.

Currently there is metabolic research at the University of Missouri

Columbia vet college where several horses, several years ago, were

completely thyroidectomized. How do they survive? No one is for

sure, only that they do, and happily so. We have known this is

possible for many, many years, yet my question is, how! How does this

reflect upon our need for iodine, and all those other questions??

Yes, the horses are completely hypOthyroid, yet unlike other mammals,

including humans, they do not go into myxedema coma and die. It will

be very interesting to see what the research reveals. Too bad the

purpose of the research is only for the sake of animals. I would

think humans would be as well served...

E (Ellen in Missouri)

>

> , I did not know that " most mammals and birds do ok living

inland, but humans don't. "

>

> If this is true, it is probably due to a variable other than iodine.

My impression is that even fish -- and certainly cattle, horses,

dogs, cats, mice, pigs, and chickens -- need iodine.

>

> Venturi talks about iodine and evolution and suggests that the

mechanisms for trapping iodine were essential in evolution of

vertebrates. He is talking about ALL vertebrates -- not just humans.

Here is one small related quote:

> " When some primitive marine vertebrates started to emerge from the

iodine-rich sea and transferred to iodine-deficient fresh water, and

finally land, their diet became iodine deficient and also harboured

vegetable iodide-competitors such as nitrates, nitrites, thiocyanates,

and some glycosides (12). Hence, these animals needed an efficient

thyroid gland as reservoir of iodine. "

>

http://iodine4health.com/research/venturi_2000_environmental_iodine_deficiency.rtf

> Here is the page that links to several related Venturi articles:

> http://iodine4health.com/special/venturi_evolution.htm

>

> So unless you have some good evidence to the contrary, it seems to

me that adequate iodine is important for all vertebrates.

>

> Zoe

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From:

[Guest guest]

My experience with farm animals would indicate that they do need iodine, but it's not nearly as critical to them as it is to people. Or they hoard it better. Mammals do get goiter ... but look at it this way: there were huge herds of bison, antelope, mice, rats, bats, wolves, bear, etc. living in the " goiter belt " of the US before people came.

But you don't see reports of huge numbers of animals with goiter or hypothyroidism, even though the humans who moved there later had all kinds of problems with both. Humans really don't seem to survive well without a good iodine source, but most other animals can.

I haven't actually seen this studied much except in farm animals, and farm animals are kind of over-bred and not fed their natural diet anyway. I live in an area that is very low iodine though, and I have yet to see a wild animal with goiter (or reports of any). Which is what got me thinking: why do WE need to get iodine supplementation, but our local wildlife doesn't? There are reports that the local Indians worked hard to get seaweed etc. as a food supplement, because they knew they needed it. But how did the local mountain goats get it?

--

[Guest guest]

OK, it has been studied. Most animals need less iodine AND they are better at retaining it:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=8104757 & dopt=Abstract1. Comparative aspects of iodine conservation in mammals were studied

on the basis of published data on kidney and thyroid weights and

function. 2. Very small mammals possessed an efficient reabsorption of

iodide to compensate for the high glomerular filtration rate (GFR). 3.

Humans and mammals of a similar and larger size had " lost " the ability

to reabsorb iodide efficiently. 4. Very large mammals are protected

against renal loss of iodide due to the relatively low GFR. 5. Thyroid

weights in relation to body weight were highest in humans suggesting

that humans and other mammals of a similar size are especially

susceptible to iodine deficiency.==============It could also point to, say, other variables (like less efficient gut reabsorption due to our " modern " diet, or bromide/chlorine ingestion). Seems like goiter is more of a problem in farm animals than it is, say, in wild cattle ... but farm animals have been raised to grow faster and they aren't fed their native diet either. And are exposed to chemicals.

Seems like some animals eat goitrogenic foods and then they get goiter also.Anyway, whatever is going on, it still seems to be a bigger problem for humans than other creatures ... --

[Guest guest]

It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain blood types. We have quite a high

rate of thyroid problems in the county where I live, and of the 11 people I personally

know.. 9 of them are type O.

[Guest guest]

I would imagine the local wildlife gets trace amounts from the soil they graze in.

Who knows how much of what part of this planet was underwater at any given

time.

We all know that having a "goiter" present isn't the only indication that

you have a deficiency..and who would know if a wild animal were having other

issues...kind of hard for average person to approach one, and they don't talk much

either.

[Guest guest]

That is interesting, because I am type O neg. and have been hypoT from birth or even before birth; I had problems even as an infant. C. <<<<< Posted by: "Aprilcupcake@..." Aprilcupcake@... big405brat Mon Jan 8, 2007 5:32 am (PST) It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain blood types. We have quite a high rate of thyroid problems in the county where I live, and of the 11 people I personally know.. 9 of them are type O. >>>>>

[Guest guest]

They also get Cushings much more than people...jingles

>

> I have also heard that horses don't deal with stress very well.

That a bad

> scare can kill one (sort of like rabbits) or a severe chill after

a run.

> Perhaps this is what has been traded off? Because isn't the

thyroid/adrenal

> system all about dealing with stresses such as these?

>

> ellen wrote:

> Horses can live indefinitely without a thyroid gland.

>

> Does that mean that they don't need iodine? I suspect not, although

> it would make for an interesting question to my Vet researcher

friends.

>

> Currently there is metabolic research at the University of Missouri

> Columbia vet college where several horses, several years ago, were

> completely thyroidectomized. How do they survive? No one is for

> sure, only that they do, and happily so. We have known this is

> possible for many, many years, yet my question is, how! How does

this

> reflect upon our need for iodine, and all those other questions??

> Yes, the horses are completely hypOthyroid, yet unlike other

mammals,

> including humans, they do not go into myxedema coma and die. It

will

> be very interesting to see what the research reveals. Too bad the

> purpose of the research is only for the sake of animals. I would

> think humans would be as well served...

>

> E (Ellen in Missouri)

>

>

> >

> > , I did not know that " most mammals and birds do ok living

> inland, but humans don't. "

> >

> > If this is true, it is probably due to a variable other than

iodine.

> My impression is that even fish -- and certainly cattle, horses,

> dogs, cats, mice, pigs, and chickens -- need iodine.

> >

> > Venturi talks about iodine and evolution and suggests that the

> mechanisms for trapping iodine were essential in evolution of

> vertebrates. He is talking about ALL vertebrates -- not just

humans.

> Here is one small related quote:

> > " When some primitive marine vertebrates started to emerge from

the

> iodine-rich sea and transferred to iodine-deficient fresh water,

and

> finally land, their diet became iodine deficient and also harboured

> vegetable iodide-competitors such as nitrates, nitrites,

thiocyanates,

> and some glycosides (12). Hence, these animals needed an efficient

> thyroid gland as reservoir of iodine. "

> >

> http://iodine4healt

>

<http://iodine4health.com/research/venturi_2000_environmental_iodine_

deficie

> ncy.rtf>

h.com/research/venturi_2000_environmental_iodine_deficiency.rtf

> > Here is the page that links to several related Venturi articles:

> > http://iodine4healt

> <http://iodine4health.com/special/venturi_evolution.htm>

> h.com/special/venturi_evolution.htm

> >

> > So unless you have some good evidence to the contrary, it seems

to

> me that adequate iodine is important for all vertebrates.

> >

> > Zoe

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From:

[Guest guest]

>From: " groupiestuff " <groupiestuff@...>

>They also get Cushings much more than people...jingles

Maybe vets are just more efficient at diagnosing certain issues.

> > ellen wrote:

> > Horses can live indefinitely without a thyroid gland.

> >

> > Does that mean that they don't need iodine? I suspect not, although

> > it would make for an interesting question to my Vet researcher

>friends.

DC Jarvis wrote " Vermont Folk Medicine. " In that book, he talked about the

improvment in farm animals, including horses that adding Lugol's Solution

and Apple Cider Vinegar had.

In the chapter " The Usefulness of Iodine " (which might be found at

jcrows.com) he talks about several things the mixture of iodine and Apple

Cider Vinegar can do for animals. He talks about how the use of the mixture

made animals healthier, how he observed lice will leave the hide of a cow

fed this, and less flies will bite them,, and how it can stop abortions, and

get rid of catle grubs.

As for Lugol's Solution alone, he talks about how iodine increased the speed

and endurance of race horses.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live

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[Guest guest]

Having goiter can mean too much iodine as well, and hypER thyroid.

Goiter is inflammation and can also be caused by damage such as a

vigorous palpation of the gland or being choked or hit in the throat.

Animals do get hypOthyroid and I would suspect iodine deficient. They

have short lifespans, and few people are anal enough about the careof

their animals including farm animals to have their levels checked.

Most owners find their pets failing and choose to let them die or put

them down. Those that do check often find trouble. Farm animals are

routinely fed iodine supplements in their mineral blocks. Wild

animals get in with the farm stock and eat their supplements as well.

My horses are fed their natural diet of pasture. A few require hay

and grain to get them thru the winter, but the majority are on just

plain grass, no chemicals. I like to let horses be horses and keep

things natural. In this way they usually thrive. Those that don't, get

help.

As to the horses at the university being studied, I know that they

receive a balanced ration which would include a certain RDA amt of

iodine so I would assume that because this is watched so closely and

everything is controlled to the -nth degree, they are getting the

iodine and are just missing the thyroid hormone.

As to horses dying from a scare like a rabbit, that is funny, but not

true. What is true is that a horse will stress more than most animals

because it is a prey animal and is set up to run from anything unknown

or stressful. When we domesticated them we took away a certain amt of

their ability to flee from danger.

When stressed (and for other reasons), horses will often colic. This

is the most common cause of emergency veterinary visits for horses and

is a life threatening condition in which gasses build up (this is

usually the type of colic associated with stress altho there are other

types) and since a horse cannot burp or vomit, it has nowhere to go.

Like a balloon the digestive system begins to expand causing great

pain unless we can get their system moving properly to displace the

gases or insert a nasogastric tube to relieve them. The horse rolls

to relieve the incredible pain and in rolling vigorously, will twist

an intestine or otherwise displace it. Unless expensive and very fast

surgery is done, this will mean the death of the horse in a very

excruciating manner (think of your insides literally blowing up inside

of you). When horses are run hard then put away without being cooled

off properly then drinking cold water or without blankets to keep them

warm (think Black Beauty) they colic from the physical stress. This

is probably where that wives tale came from. A horse will not

normally drop dead from fright unless it has a serious heart condition.

E (Ellen in Missouri)... the owner of an Arabian Horse show and

breeding farm.

>

> I would imagine the local wildlife gets trace amounts from the soil

they

> graze in.

> Who knows how much of what part of this planet was underwater at any

given

> time.

> We all know that having a " goiter " present isn't the only

indication that

> you have a deficiency..and who would know if a wild animal were

having other

> issues...kind of hard for average person to approach one, and they

don't talk

> much

> either.

>

[Guest guest]

If you're referring to horses, they actually very rarely get true

cushings. They have recently discovered that horses they previously

thought had cushings actually have another metabolic problem called

EMS- Equine Metabolic Syndrome. To put it short, they get fat, then

the adipose, or belly fat actually begins to create hormones all on

it's own without help of the pituitary. When the fat is gone, it no

longer creates the cortisol etc that causes the syndrome and the horse

is cured. Makes you wonder about that fat. If it can create cortisol

and other pituitary hormones, can it create thyroid hormone as well,

or something " special " that keeps them alive in a hypOthyroid state

that would kill any normal person???

You can look up Equine Metabolic Syndrome Dr. Philip and find

some intrigueing info.

E (Ellen in Missouri)

>

> They also get Cushings much more than people...jingles

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Aprilcupcake@... wrote:

>

> It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain

> blood types. We have quite

> a high

> rate of thyroid problems in the county where

> I live, and of the 11 people I

> personally know.. 9 of them are type O.

Dr. D'Adamo notes that type Os are more prone to thyroid

disease. I highly recommend his Blood Type Encylopedia.

It's just chock full of interesting stuff, and not all about

the blood types per se. Great bathroom reading as you can

open it up anywhere and learn something new. I take the

blood types food recommendations and prohibitions

with a grain of salt, but rather muscle test and experiment

to find what's best for me.

Carol

willis_protocols

Article archive in Files. Blog. Links. Not a discussion group.

[Guest guest]

I am O positive. I also had problems since birth.

Amy

wrote:

That is interesting, because I am type

O neg. and have been hypoT from birth or even before birth; I had problems

even as an infant.

C.

<<<<< Posted by: "Aprilcupcakeaol" Aprilcupcakeaol

big405brat

Mon Jan 8, 2007 5:32 am (PST)

It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain

blood types. We have quite

a high rate of thyroid problems in the county where I live, and of the 11

people I

personally know.. 9 of them are type O. >>! >>>

[Guest guest]

Darnit, I’m an O too…renee

Re: Re: help? --

iodine and Neanderthals and animals

I am O positive. I also had problems since

birth.

Amy

wrote:

That is interesting, because I am

type O neg. and have been hypoT from birth or even before birth; I had problems

even as an infant.

C.

<<<<< Posted by: " Aprilcupcakeaol "

Aprilcupcakeaol

big405brat

Mon Jan 8, 2007 5:32 am (PST)

It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain blood

types. We have quite

a high rate of thyroid problems in the county where I live, and of the 11

people I

personally know.. 9 of them are type O. >>! >>>

[Guest guest]

A large portion of the population has Type O blood, can't remember the

exact percentage but approximately 70% I think, it would reason that

those percentages would be high for that blood type.

Linn

>

>

> That is interesting, because I am type O neg. and have been hypoT

from birth

> or even before birth; I had problems even as an infant.

>

>

>

>

> C.

>

>

>

>

>

> <<<<< Posted by: " Aprilcupcake@... "

> <http://us.f830.mail./ym/Compose?To=Aprilcupcake@... & Subj=%20Re

> %3A%20help%3F%20--%20iodine%20and%20Neanderthals%20and%20animals>

> Aprilcupcake@... <big405brat> big405brat

>

>

> Mon Jan 8, 2007 5:32 am (PST)

>

>

> It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain blood types. We

have quite

> a high rate of thyroid problems in the county where I live, and of

the 11

> people I

> personally know.. 9 of them are type O. >>! >>>

>

[Guest guest]

Your figure seemed high so I did a google. A and O each are found in

about 1/3 of the population.

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/medicine/blood-type.htm

Alobar

On 1/9/07, mwm1glm <mwm1glm@...> wrote:

> A large portion of the population has Type O blood, can't remember the

> exact percentage but approximately 70% I think, it would reason that

> those percentages would be high for that blood type.

>

> Linn

>

[Guest guest]

Well that's what happens when I rely on my memory. I would have been

remembering stats from quite a while ago, when dealing more hematolgy

issues than I ever wanted to know about. Should have looked it up, as

those statistics would be subject to change all the time.

Linn

> > A large portion of the population has Type O blood, can't remember the

> > exact percentage but approximately 70% I think, it would reason that

> > those percentages would be high for that blood type.

> >

> > Linn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I wondered about that percentage myself. My son has O type blood. He gave blood a couple of times .. way back when, and now we are being called all of the time for him to donate, because this is "supposedly" a hard to get blood type. I can't remember for sure though .. if there was a negative or positive attached to that .. or maybe neither ..? BTW, our son has been diagnosed w/Asperger's .. I wonder if there is any correlation .. ? GloAlobar <Alobar@...> wrote: Your figure seemed high so I did a google. A and O each are found inabout 1/3 of the population.http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/medicine/blood-type.htmAlobarOn 1/9/07, mwm1glm <mwm1glm > wrote:> A large portion of the population has Type O blood, can't remember the> exact percentage but approximately 70% I think, it would reason that> those percentages would be high for that blood type.>> Linn>

[Guest guest]

Type is in demand because it is a "universal" donor blood meaning it does not have A or B antigens so it can be used by all blood types when needed.

Yes, I wondered about that percentage myself. My son has O type blood. He gave blood a couple of times .. way back when, and now we are being called all of the time for him to donate, because this is "supposedly" a hard to get blood type. I can't remember for sure though .. if there was a negative or positive attached to that .. or maybe neither ..?

BTW, our son has been diagnosed w/Asperger's .. I wonder if there is any correlation .. ?

Glo

Messages in this topic (19) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

..

[Guest guest]

Type O negative is always in demand for emergencies when a blood type

cannot be determined.

Linn

>

> Type is in demand because it is a " universal " donor blood meaning it

does not have A or B antigens so it can be used by all blood types

when needed.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Yes, I wondered about that percentage myself. My son has O type

blood. He gave blood a couple of times .. way back when, and now we

are being called all of the time for him to donate, because this is

" supposedly " a hard to get blood type. I can't remember for sure

though .. if there was a negative or positive attached to that .. or

maybe neither ..?

>

> BTW, our son has been diagnosed w/Asperger's .. I wonder if there

is any correlation .. ?

>

> Glo

>

> Messages in this topic (19) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

> Messages | Database | Polls | Calendar

> Iodine

[Guest guest]

, thank you very much for this intriguing abstract!

I am trying to get the whole article, and I've written to Venturi to see if he knows any more about this since he is the expert on iodine in evolution.

Unfortunately, the article looks like it is only three pages long, but maybe it will have some good references. It sounds like it is looking at some of the basic physiology of iodine across mammals. I don't even understand the physiology of iodine in humans yet, and this might help.

I need to find out what "glomerular filtration rate" means.

Very interesting that large mammals (like humans) appear to have lost the ability to reabsorb iodide efficiently. I wonder when that happened. Does it serve another survival value??? Otherwise, it seems counterproductive since iodine is so necessary and so scarce.

Also, how does this affect the research on iodine that is done on rats, etc?

Then, it says that VERY large mammals are protected against renal loss of iodide due to low GFR. So that makes it sounds that both the very large and the small animals are protected, but man and other "large" animals are not.

I'd certainly be interested in any more thoughts or studies you find on this.

Zoe

----- Original Message -----

From:

[Guest guest]

, you say "I haven't seen this studied much except in farm animals."

Do you know of any good review articles on farm animals and iodine?

Thanks.

Zoe

----- Original Message -----

From:

[Guest guest]

Ellen,

Do you know if there are any good review articles on iodine and horses? I know that a lot has been done on iodine and horses on a pragmatic basis (as reported by Jarvis), but I've never read a comprehensive article.

Zoe

----- Original Message -----

From: Ellen My horses are fed their natural diet of pasture. A few require hayand grain to get them thru the winter, but the majority are on justplain grass, no chemicals. I like to let horses be horses and keepthings natural. In this way they usually thrive. Those that don't, gethelp.As to the horses at the university being studied, I know that theyreceive a balanced ration which would include a certain RDA amt ofiodine so I would assume that because this is watched so closely andeverything is controlled to the -nth degree, they are getting theiodine and are just missing the thyroid hormone.E (Ellen in Missouri)... the owner of an Arabian Horse show andbreeding farm.

[Guest guest]

We now have the whole article by Vadstrup, Comparative aspects of iodine conservation in mammals.

You can find it here:

http://iodine4health.com/special/physiology/conservation/conservation.htm

Zoe

----- Original Message -----

From: