tick bite

[Guest guest]

i would like to know if anyone knows wher i can get my 17 month old atetanus shot without the d & p of course?

From: Amber Mace <amace@...>Vaccinations Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 10:25:12 AMSubject: tick bite

Hi,I would like advice for a tick bite. My daughter had a tick on her head and we removed it. Looked like we got all of it. Part of her scalp came out and it bled very well. I put peroxide on it and it scabbed over. No redness, irritation, swelling, etc.Then yesterday I noticed that her occipital node behind her ear on the right is very swollen. The tick bite was also on the right side of her scalp. Should I be concerned? Anything I could give her if she is fighting something? I figure they will give me antibiotics at the doctor if I did go. Thoughts?Thanks,Amber

[Guest guest]

Actually, they might even want to give her a tetanus shot. I think you're doing the right things already. Just keep an eye on her and support her immune system.

Winnie tick biteVaccinations > Hi,> > I would like advice for a tick bite. My daughter had a tick on > her head and> we removed it. Looked like we got all of it. Part of her scalp > came out> and it bled very well. I put peroxide on it and it scabbed > over. No> redness, irritation, swelling, etc.> > Then yesterday I noticed that her occipital node behind her ear > on the right> is very swollen. The tick bite was also on the right side of > her scalp.> Should I be concerned? Anything I could give her if she is fighting> something? I figure they will give me antibiotics at the doctor > if I did> go.> > Thoughts?> > Thanks,> Amber>

[Guest guest]

Do you live in an area where the ticks carry Lyme disease or

other tick borne diseases?

From:

Vaccinations [mailto:Vaccinations ] On Behalf

Of Amber Mace

Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 10:25 AM

Vaccinations

Subject: tick bite

Hi,

I would like advice for a tick bite. My daughter had a tick on her head

and we removed it. Looked like we got all of it. Part of her scalp

came out and it bled very well. I put peroxide on it and it scabbed

over. No redness, irritation, swelling, etc.

Then yesterday I noticed that her occipital node behind her ear on the right is

very swollen. The tick bite was also on the right side of her

scalp. Should I be concerned? Anything I could give her if she is

fighting something? I figure they will give me antibiotics at the doctor

if I did go.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Amber

[Guest guest]

Plantain ointment on the bite area, mullein oil for the glands and garlic oil for antibiotic would be what I would try.-K.Hancock, M.H. in trainingMother of 1 (8mo)Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®From: Amber Mace <amace@...>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:25:12 -0400<Vaccinations >Subject: tick bite Hi,I would like advice for a tick bite.  My daughter had a tick on her head and we removed it.  Looked like we got all of it.  Part of her scalp came out and it bled very well.  I put peroxide on it and it scabbed over.  No redness, irritation, swelling, etc.Then yesterday I noticed that her occipital node behind her ear on the right is very swollen.  The tick bite was also on the right side of her scalp.  Should I be concerned?  Anything I could give her if she is fighting something?  I figure they will give me antibiotics at the doctor if I did go.  Thoughts?Thanks,Amber

[Guest guest]

Hello group. I've been on the diet 40 months. I found an attached tick on my hip

eleven days ago. I'm certain it was there approximately 26 hours. It left a

quarter sized black and blue area around the bite that lasted for three days

after which it looked like a mosquito bite. But for the last week I have been

feeling quite weak and tired. I'm not sure if I should see a doctor. I suspect a

doctor would want to give me antibiotics. Do I risk getting Lyme disease, Rocky

Mountain Spotted Fever, or some other problem?

Thanks for your attention.

Brad

[Guest guest]

>

> Bee

> I'm CHris . All ticks do not carry Lymes so, of course, everyone would

not be infected if they got bitten. Right?

+++Hi

The tick's body also create bugs the same way our bodies do and for the same

reasons they are created everywhere in Nature, and bugs are not contagious from

human to human, animal to human, insect to human or animal, etc. Bugs are

created in each body independent of bugs in any other bodies, or in the air or

on surfaces, etc. This is best explained in my article Are Sexually Transmitted

Diseases Contagious?

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/contagious2.php

That is why the Germ Theory of Disease is totally false - see these articles for

more information:

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/menu5_3_1.php

All the best, Bee

[Guest guest]

Dear ,When I was younger I was bit by a tick, they tested the tick and it did not have lyme. When I was 26 yrs old I was bit by a tick again, I never noticed the bite and I never had a bulls eye, I began to get sick, flu like symptoms. Every doctor I went to told me I had the flu. I got worse and worse. Finally I went to my little brother's pediatrician who immediately took blood. It was positive for lyme. By this time it was a month and a half later and it was beginning to mess with my thinking. I was getting confused, I went to the bank one day and could not recall my social security or checking account number that I knew by heart. The doctor put me on an antibiotic for 1 month and the symptoms went away but then I was left with a whole mess of side effects I guess that the lyme had caused. I did natural treatments for all of these issues. It took me 2 years to get my energy levels back to where they used to be. I am 100 better today.Point is, don't mess with lyme, this bacteria requires an antibiotic and that's why we have antibiotics. Ticks can also carry other diseases, many of which can be harsh.Erlichia, Babesiosis, Tularemia, Bartonella, to name just a few.Angie Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: Osanitch <haffpynt@...>Sender: Vaccinations Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 10:51:39 -0700 (PDT)Vaccinations <Vaccinations >Reply Vaccinations Subject: Re: tick bite What I say will sound scary and I don't mean to do that to you, but I feel I have to say it because taking tick bites too lightly hashad consequences for a lot of folks. Now, I generally don't run to antibiotics for everything, if anything.But in this case I would do it. The impact lyme is having around the world is growing and this is one bacterium which does not do well with only homeopathic treatments. Even people who ARE getting ABX are not all getting well.Not because it isn't worth doing but because the bacteria are incredibly tough, resilientand deceptive. It so happens I am doing a lot of research on it because a test I took in Aug 2010 for lyme had one reactive band, and when I had called back in the day for the results, I was only told"it's negative, you're fine." Turns out the test was likely a very outdated test, that lyme is in the middle of a huge war in the medical world, that lyme is not simple to cure and can devestate the body, kill you or make you WISHyou were dead if left untreated. I don't know if I have it and I kind of doubt it.Even the tests are not foolproof.The standard CDC test is pretty much outdated.In fact if you ever feel you need testing or your doctor wants to do it,request a Western Blot from IGeneX labs.Another options is Stonybrook labs but in that case you want to requestthat all bands be tested and not just the ones specified by the 1994 Lyme Symposiumof Dearborn MI. I am looking into a better Western Blot test and getting insurance to hopefully cover it. Just for peace of mind. Depending on how late you treat, the antibiotics themselves can be very harsh.If you start early though, it's not bad.You can always keep your child on a course of probiotics.Think of it as giving a little abx now to prevent a LOT of them later, along with far more potential pain and suffering, should he be infected. Ticks can also carry other diseases, many of which can be harsh.Erlichia, Babesiosis, Tularemia, Bartonella, to name just a few. Having said all of that, not all ticks are carriers and there is every likelihood your child is just fine.I'm just saying you really don't want to find out the hard way. A lot of doctors won't even start the ABX without waiting 30 days and then giving a CDC type of test,which may give a false negative. I say, why wait until the bacterium settles in?It's really not worth it. Learn to do a lot of tick searches and to remove them.I don't mean to sound rough but I don't think you would feel good if you or someoneyou loved suffered from a debilitating illness over delay of tick removal becauseyou were feeling squeamish. Here are a couple of sites: http://www.naturalhealthsource.us/articles/lyme.html www.lymediseaseassociation.org www.ilads.org OQueens NY USAFrom: jgq2010 <ericandjamie@...>Vaccinations Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 12:14 PMSubject: tick bite Hi,I brought my son to a walk in clinic today to remove a deer tick (Iam a wimp). They want him to take an antibiotic to prevent Lyme's disease in the event the tick was a carrier. Does anyone know if this works? I am not big on medications at all and he has had one time before...but I also really don't want him to get Lyme disease. Also, they asked if we were up to date on Tetanus vaccine. I told the Dr. no and said that I thought that was only necessary for deep wounds. He said even a tick bite could theoretically be an opening for the infection. Just curious if anyone has ever heard of that?Thanks,

[Guest guest]

That's understandable. You have to get as close to that head as you can, right against the skin.

You can learn to do it but I sure hope you don't get much practice over life with

actual embedded ticks.

Your child will be just fine. Give that kid a hug!

OQueens NY USA

From: <ericandjamie@...>"Vaccinations " <Vaccinations > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:40 PMSubject: Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite

Thanks for all those that replied. I have been doing a lot of reading about it and think the antibiotics are by far the lesser of the two evils. Thanks for all the info provided by everyone. I know it sounds lame to be a wimp about taking the tick off but my big fear was leaving the head embedded which can cause infection too.

Thanks again,

On Apr 4, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Osanitch <haffpynt@...> wrote:

What I say will sound scary and I don't mean to do that to you, but

I feel I have to say it because taking tick bites too lightly has

had consequences for a lot of folks.

Now, I generally don't run to antibiotics for everything, if anything.

But in this case I would do it.

The impact lyme is having around the world is growing and this is one

bacterium which does not do well with only homeopathic treatments.

Even people who ARE getting ABX are not all getting well.

Not because it isn't worth doing but because the bacteria are incredibly tough, resilient

and deceptive.

It so happens I am doing a lot of research on it because a test I took in Aug 2010

for lyme had one reactive band, and when I had called back in the day for the results, I was only told"it's negative, you're fine."

Turns out the test was likely a very outdated test, that lyme is in the middle of a huge war in the medical

world, that lyme is not simple to cure and can devestate the body, kill you or make you WISH

you were dead if left untreated.

I don't know if I have it and I kind of doubt it.

Even the tests are not foolproof.

The standard CDC test is pretty much outdated.

In fact if you ever feel you need testing or your doctor wants to do it,

request a Western Blot from IGeneX labs.

Another options is Stonybrook labs but in that case you want to request

that all bands be tested and not just the ones specified by the 1994 Lyme Symposium

of Dearborn MI.

I am looking into a better Western Blot test and getting insurance to hopefully cover it. Just for peace of mind.

Depending on how late you treat, the antibiotics themselves can be very harsh.

If you start early though, it's not bad.

You can always keep your child on a course of probiotics.

Think of it as giving a little abx now to prevent a LOT of them later, along with

far more potential pain and suffering, should he be infected.

Ticks can also carry other diseases, many of which can be harsh.

Erlichia, Babesiosis, Tularemia, Bartonella, to name just a few.

Having said all of that, not all ticks are carriers and there is every likelihood your child is just fine.

I'm just saying you really don't want to find out the hard way.

A lot of doctors won't even start the ABX without waiting 30 days and then giving a CDC type of test,

which may give a false negative.

I say, why wait until the bacterium settles in?

It's really not worth it.

Learn to do a lot of tick searches and to remove them.

I don't mean to sound rough but I don't think you would feel good if you or someone

you loved suffered from a debilitating illness over delay of tick removal because

you were feeling squeamish.

Here are a couple of sites:

http://www.naturalhealthsource.us/articles/lyme.html

www.lymediseaseassociation.org

www.ilads.org

OQueens NY USA

From: jgq2010 <ericandjamie@...>Vaccinations Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 12:14 PMSubject: tick bite

Hi,I brought my son to a walk in clinic today to remove a deer tick (Iam a wimp). They want him to take an antibiotic to prevent Lyme's disease in the event the tick was a carrier. Does anyone know if this works? I am not big on medications at all and he has had one time before...but I also really don't want him to get Lyme disease. Also, they asked if we were up to date on Tetanus vaccine. I told the Dr. no and said that I thought that was only necessary for deep wounds. He said even a tick bite could theoretically be an opening for the infection. Just curious if anyone has ever heard of that?Thanks,

[Guest guest]

I haven’t read every single message in this topic so I may have missed it, but has anyone suggested using Ledum after a tick bite to prevent Lymes Disease? I would seriously avoid antibiotics. As has been said, people who are using them, have to used them over and over and they don’t get better. I was told that it can be successfully treated homeopathically, but is very difficult to cure once antibiotics are used.

Trish

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that explanation. So, when the forms changes, is there a way to know which antibiotics work for that stage (if any)? Would you alternate the antibiotics with the herbs at that point?

Winnie

Re: tick biteVaccinations > I usually lurk but have to chime in. There are studies out now > that show> that lyme has several forms. The usual initial form is the > spirochete. > And doxy does work against the spirochete, if you are willing to > use abx. > But lyme is tricky and it has been shown to switch to two other > forms, a> cyst form and a "slime" form that are resistant to doxy. So > while doxy is> killing the spirochetes it appears that the lyme switch into > other forms> and remain in the body, causing relapse later. There are scientific> studies showing that herbs: samento, cumanda, and banderol are > effectiveagainst the cyst and slime forms...best used if > combined with doxy so all> forms can be treated.> > If you are against abx or herbals, this won't help, but....personally> having battled lyme in two dogs now for 10 years I know more > about it than> I'd like and even if abx are not all that healthy, to me the > risk of that> is less than that of the abx. My older dog is now testing > negative for> lyme. I don't think his went chronic. My younger seems to have gone> chronic, probably due to having been vax'd by the breeder not > too soon> before he got bitten the first time. When I give doxy I also > give mega> doses of high grade human probiotics to protect the guts and > liver support> factors to support the liver. I just have seen too many dogs > end up dying> of lyme nephritis and people with bad fallout from lyme. I fear Tick> diseases more than most other things.> > We don't know enough about these TBDs yet and they can be very > lethal. It> is matter of picking your poison really. Abx are not great, but > at least> it is more of a known evil than the tick diseases...and I have > no doubt> there are tick diseases that we dont' even know exist yet.> > Not trying to be a rebel, just sharing a reason that explains lyme> recurrence.>

[Guest guest]

Good question. I'm inclined to think it would be helpful for pain from the bite but I haven't heard about homeopathic treatment specifically for Lyme. I'd think there would be, though, because it could assist your body in the healing process.

Winnie Re: tick biteVaccinations > I haven’t read every single message in this topic so I may have > missed it, but has anyone suggested using Ledum after a tick > bite to prevent Lymes Disease? I would seriously avoid > antibiotics. As has been said, people who are using them, have > to used them over and over and they don’t get better. I was > told that it can be successfully treated homeopathically, but is > very difficult to cure once antibiotics are used.> Trish

[Guest guest]

I don't think any abx works well for cyst and slime forms. The alternate

forms are a pretty recent finding itself, so not as much info on them as

on the spirochete form regarding antibiotics. I know that doxy usually is

considered the abx of choice, but some have switched to amoxi either due

to side effects of doxy, etc. and I guess some individuals respond better

to amoxi...but I think that is an individual difference and not based on

the form or stage of the lyme.

My understanding is that it is better to overlap the doxy and the herbals

to get the best effect. I am almost done with doxy now, started samento

halfway through, but will continue the samento for at least three months

post-doxy. And if things don't seem better, we are planning to add one of

the other herbals...which I might do anyway. Since the herbals don't seem

to have any adverse effects, you can continue them a lot longer than the

abx.

If anyone wants I will try to get the link to the article that shows the

forms and has the study results.

As to knowing if it's chronic or not...there is a new test that is out

(testing for TBDs in dogs is actually more advanced than testing for

humans) and it purports to tell whether it is acute, chronic, or due to

vax with the lyme vax (the syndrome that can result from the lyme vax is

like lyme but is virtually incurable). The new test from Cornell measures

the proteins on the outer surface of the lyme, which change depending on

stage, and the results are based on what surface proteins are found in the

bloodwork. It is a new test and I don't think it is perfected yet as I

know of people getting a read for the lyme vax proteins when the dog never

got the lyme vax. So there still may be bugs to work out with the test.

But it is one way to determine if the lyme (in dogs anyway) is chronic. I

decided not to do this test myself because it doesn't seem truly reliable

yet and because since his C6 results and his lyme titre results just keep

increasing, I am pretty certain that it is chronic at this point. Since

the herbs do no harm that we know of I decided to assume that it is

chronic and use them. We will see when his next C6 is due.

I do know of people who have tried ledum and the reports I have gotten

were that the outcomes were not so good...now whether they were using it

according to the proper protocols for homeopathy, I can't say. You would

also have to know that a bite occurred, wouldn't you? I don't think it

would make sense to give ledum months down the road...if you were going to

do homeopathy you'd have to treat the symptoms appearing. I had never

found a tick on the youngster when it had to have occurred so there was no

window of opportunity for ledum...he just started the alternate leg

limping (hallmark of TBD in dogs) and I " knew " and the tests demonstrated

that I was right. I am pretty sure when it happened (a warm spell of 70s

in November just about 2 months before the limping started). It is not

uncommon (that they turn up with lyme with no known bite...less likely on

a human due to lack of fur that ticks can hide in). A lot of the lyme

symptoms that we have had are not something you really find to repertize

(e.g., alternate leg limping). I had a veterinary homeopath work with him

on eye inflammation which was the first symptom of this last bout, and the

homeopathy did not really help it. Then he got inflammation and a quarter

sized bump on his ear flap which disappeared overnight and I just decided

it looked really like some form of immunocompromise that these weird

things were going on, so I had the testing done again and...well, indeedy

So I hope someone can benefit from the info on the herbals if they are

suffering. We all can only do the best we can against this. So much is

unknown. (A new Tick disease was discovered in Switzerland a few months

ago and the primary symptom was that it was causing people to get blood

clots in the leg (DVTs). Enough people turned up with it and they

eventually figured out that it was a previously unknown TBD.

> Thanks for that explanation. So, when the forms changes, is there a way to

> know which antibiotics work for that stage (if any)? Would you alternate

> the antibiotics with the herbs at that point?

>

> Winnie

>

> Re: tick bite

> Vaccinations

>

>> I usually lurk but have to chime in. There are studies out now

>> that show

>> that lyme has several forms. The usual initial form is the

>> spirochete.

>> And doxy does work against the spirochete, if you are willing to

>> use abx.

>> But lyme is tricky and it has been shown to switch to two other

>> forms, a

>> cyst form and a " slime " form that are resistant to doxy. So

>> while doxy is

>> killing the spirochetes it appears that the lyme switch into

>> other forms

>> and remain in the body, causing relapse later. There are scientific

>> studies showing that herbs: samento, cumanda, and banderol are

>> effectiveagainst the cyst and slime forms...best used if

>> combined with doxy so all

>> forms can be treated.

>>

>> If you are against abx or herbals, this won't help, but....personally

>> having battled lyme in two dogs now for 10 years I know more

>> about it than

>> I'd like and even if abx are not all that healthy, to me the

>> risk of that

>> is less than that of the abx. My older dog is now testing

>> negative for

>> lyme. I don't think his went chronic. My younger seems to have gone

>> chronic, probably due to having been vax'd by the breeder not

>> too soon

>> before he got bitten the first time. When I give doxy I also

>> give mega

>> doses of high grade human probiotics to protect the guts and

>> liver support

>> factors to support the liver. I just have seen too many dogs

>> end up dying

>> of lyme nephritis and people with bad fallout from lyme. I fear Tick

>> diseases more than most other things.

>>

>> We don't know enough about these TBDs yet and they can be very

>> lethal. It

>> is matter of picking your poison really. Abx are not great, but

>> at least

>> it is more of a known evil than the tick diseases...and I have

>> no doubt

>> there are tick diseases that we dont' even know exist yet.

>>

>> Not trying to be a rebel, just sharing a reason that explains lyme

>> recurrence.

>>

>

The Aireheads: A blonde and two airedales, Anne, Trevor (MEX, SAA, CGC,

TDI, RN) and Neville (OA, OAJ, NAF, C-BAA, C-IAA, C-BSLA, C-ISLA, C-BJA,

RN, AKC Star Puppy)

" When someone asks me " what's it like having an airedale?' I respond

" Imagine Robin with four legs and a tail. Only crazier. "

--quoted in Dog a Day Calendar

[Guest guest]

There's more of an explanation for the illusion that the infection stopped, before it resumes,

than just symptom suppression.

These spirochaetes have the ability to convert to their cyst form when they

sense a hostile environment, and thusly hide in tissues.

There are a lot of folks who have been infected by lyme and are doing fine, either because

they took abx early, or, they refused to only take it for the 30 days most docs suggest for

"chronic" lyme and took them for longer; often via IV or IM injections.

And that's not to say that the abx themselves don't have lousy effects.

Again, it becomes a lesser of two evils choice.

I have the book by Pam Weintraub and am going to start on it soon;

entitled "Cure Unknown." It speaks quite a bit about doctors being torn and why.

A lot of it, not suprisingly, is politics, money, insurance companies not wanting to pay

out for all of the care some of these folks need, etc.

The forum on www.medhelp.org is a great resource.

Two people in particular, who have been battling lyme, will tell you all about

what they've learned, about all the tests, what is wrong with them, the pros and cons behind them,

etc. I've learned quite a bit.

Believe me I'm not a fan of abx. In fact if I were to have even a mild, low grade

but old case of lyme, I'd probably ask somone to torment me with IM shots before taking

pills, just to avoid gut disruption. My familiy would think I was nuts of course, but whatever.

OQueens NY USA

From: "wharrison@..." <wharrison@...>Vaccinations Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 8:14 PMSubject: Re: tick bite

Right, that is my understanding also. The infection is still there when the antibiotics stop because they didn't work. They suppress the symptoms and give the illusion of working. That's one reason people keep taking them for years because they think the antibiotics work just because the symptoms go away. It could be, as Angie pointed out, another type of tick disease. Some doctors will alternate antibiotics.

I am still hesitant about trusting antibiotics to help since the experts are so torn. That's one reason I would want the disease confirmed first, not just to assume any tick you find on you might have it.

FYI--A friend of mine got rid of her LD by using an infra-red sauna--no antibiotics.

Winnie tick bite> >>> >>> >> > >>Hi,> >>I brought my son to a walk in clinic today to remove a deer > tick (I> >>am a wimp). They want him to take an antibiotic to prevent > Lyme's disease in the event the tick was a carrier. Does anyone > know if this works? I am not big on medications at all and he > has had one time before...but

I also really don't want him to > get Lyme disease. Also, they asked if we were up to date on > Tetanus vaccine. I told the Dr. no and said that I thought that > was only necessary for deep wounds. He said even a tick bite > could theoretically be an opening for the infection. Just > curious if anyone has ever heard of that?> >>Thanks, > >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >

[Guest guest]

Right, there's the slime form too. I forgot about that. And as I understand it, when they hide

long enough, the body slows the production of antibodies, making many of the tests come

up with false positives. Which is why clinical manifestation is still the main

way of diagnosing someone.

There is some sort of culture test by Advanced Laboratories that I hear is new but

very accurate. They actually take your blood and try to grow the lyme in a petri dish.

If you have Borrelia burgdorfei in the blood it will grow in about two weeks.

What confuses me still is how this can be so accurate, since the bacteria are not always

out in the blood. THey are often, again, hiding in tissues.

Your brain or somewhere else in the CNS, your heart, other muscles.

Lyme is the new pandemic. Every time I see things like West Nile, bird or swine flu,

etc, make the news and cause such commotion, I am enraged, because there have been

only a handful of cases at best, and there is so much going on about what theoretically

COULD happen in terms of viral mutations.

Meanwhile we have a REAL pandemic happening NOW, and it's worldwide and growing,

and it's not getting nearly enough attention. I'm sorry and mean no insult to cancer sufferers, but

this topic of lyme and other TBDs deserves as much attention as cancer IMHO.

OQueens NY USA

From: "chipsqur@..." <chipsqur@...>Vaccinations Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 8:39 PMSubject: Re: tick bite

I usually lurk but have to chime in. There are studies out now that showthat lyme has several forms. The usual initial form is the spirochete. And doxy does work against the spirochete, if you are willing to use abx. But lyme is tricky and it has been shown to switch to two other forms, acyst form and a "slime" form that are resistant to doxy. So while doxy iskilling the spirochetes it appears that the lyme switch into other formsand remain in the body, causing relapse later. There are scientificstudies showing that herbs: samento, cumanda, and banderol are effectiveagainst the cyst and slime forms...best used if combined with doxy so allforms can be treated.If you are against abx or herbals, this won't help, but....personallyhaving battled lyme in two dogs now for 10 years I know more about it thanI'd like and even if abx are not all that healthy, to me the risk of thatis less than that of the

abx. My older dog is now testing negative forlyme. I don't think his went chronic. My younger seems to have gonechronic, probably due to having been vax'd by the breeder not too soonbefore he got bitten the first time. When I give doxy I also give megadoses of high grade human probiotics to protect the guts and liver supportfactors to support the liver. I just have seen too many dogs end up dyingof lyme nephritis and people with bad fallout from lyme. I fear Tickdiseases more than most other things.We don't know enough about these TBDs yet and they can be very lethal. Itis matter of picking your poison really. Abx are not great, but at leastit is more of a known evil than the tick diseases...and I have no doubtthere are tick diseases that we dont' even know exist yet.Not trying to be a rebel, just sharing a reason that explains lymerecurrence.> Right, that is my understanding also.

The infection is still there when> the antibiotics stop because they didn't work. They suppress the symptoms> and give the illusion of working. That's one reason people keep taking> them for years because they think the antibiotics work just because the> symptoms go away. It could be, as Angie pointed out, another type of tick> disease. Some doctors will alternate antibiotics.>

[Guest guest]

ILADS has a good doctor referral system and there also seems

to be info on various abx that are used on B burgdorfei in it's various forms,

as well as those used on different TBDs.

So yes, there are other things you can use.

And I'm very glad for the herbals recommended here.

I believe ILADS folks do also suggest herbals for support.

You can download a lot of their 2011 Convention talks, for a fee of course.

But one of them is homeopathic managment of lyme.

OQueens NY USA

From: "chipsqur@..." <chipsqur@...>Vaccinations Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:23 AMSubject: Re: tick bite

I don't think any abx works well for cyst and slime forms. The alternateforms are a pretty recent finding itself, so not as much info on them ason the spirochete form regarding antibiotics. I know that doxy usually isconsidered the abx of choice, but some have switched to amoxi either dueto side effects of doxy, etc. and I guess some individuals respond betterto amoxi...but I think that is an individual difference and not based onthe form or stage of the lyme.My understanding is that it is better to overlap the doxy and the herbalsto get the best effect. I am almost done with doxy now, started samentohalfway through, but will continue the samento for at least three monthspost-doxy. And if things don't seem better, we are planning to add one ofthe other herbals...which I might do anyway. Since the herbals don't seemto have any adverse effects, you can continue them a lot longer than

theabx.If anyone wants I will try to get the link to the article that shows theforms and has the study results.As to knowing if it's chronic or not...there is a new test that is out(testing for TBDs in dogs is actually more advanced than testing forhumans) and it purports to tell whether it is acute, chronic, or due tovax with the lyme vax (the syndrome that can result from the lyme vax islike lyme but is virtually incurable). The new test from Cornell measuresthe proteins on the outer surface of the lyme, which change depending onstage, and the results are based on what surface proteins are found in thebloodwork. It is a new test and I don't think it is perfected yet as Iknow of people getting a read for the lyme vax proteins when the dog nevergot the lyme vax. So there still may be bugs to work out with the test. But it is one way to determine if the lyme (in dogs anyway) is chronic.

Idecided not to do this test myself because it doesn't seem truly reliableyet and because since his C6 results and his lyme titre results just keepincreasing, I am pretty certain that it is chronic at this point. Sincethe herbs do no harm that we know of I decided to assume that it ischronic and use them. We will see when his next C6 is due.I do know of people who have tried ledum and the reports I have gottenwere that the outcomes were not so good...now whether they were using itaccording to the proper protocols for homeopathy, I can't say. You wouldalso have to know that a bite occurred, wouldn't you? I don't think itwould make sense to give ledum months down the road...if you were going todo homeopathy you'd have to treat the symptoms appearing. I had neverfound a tick on the youngster when it had to have occurred so there was nowindow of opportunity for ledum...he just started the alternate

leglimping (hallmark of TBD in dogs) and I "knew" and the tests demonstratedthat I was right. I am pretty sure when it happened (a warm spell of 70sin November just about 2 months before the limping started). It is notuncommon (that they turn up with lyme with no known bite...less likely ona human due to lack of fur that ticks can hide in). A lot of the lymesymptoms that we have had are not something you really find to repertize(e.g., alternate leg limping). I had a veterinary homeopath work with himon eye inflammation which was the first symptom of this last bout, and thehomeopathy did not really help it. Then he got inflammation and a quartersized bump on his ear flap which disappeared overnight and I just decidedit looked really like some form of immunocompromise that these weirdthings were going on, so I had the testing done again and...well, indeedySo I hope someone can benefit from the info

on the herbals if they aresuffering. We all can only do the best we can against this. So much isunknown. (A new Tick disease was discovered in Switzerland a few monthsago and the primary symptom was that it was causing people to get bloodclots in the leg (DVTs). Enough people turned up with it and theyeventually figured out that it was a previously unknown TBD.> Thanks for that explanation. So, when the forms changes, is there a way to> know which antibiotics work for that stage (if any)? Would you alternate> the antibiotics with the herbs at that point?>> Winnie>> Re: tick bite> Vaccinations >>> I usually lurk but have to chime in. There are studies out now>> that show>> that lyme has several forms. The usual initial form is the>> spirochete.>> And doxy does work against the spirochete, if you are willing to>> use abx.>> But lyme is tricky and it has been shown to switch to two other>> forms, a>> cyst form and a "slime" form that are resistant to doxy. So>> while doxy is>> killing the spirochetes it appears that the lyme switch into>> other forms>> and remain in the body, causing relapse later. There are scientific>> studies showing that herbs: samento, cumanda, and banderol are>> effectiveagainst the cyst and slime forms...best used if>> combined with doxy so

all>> forms can be treated.>>>> If you are against abx or herbals, this won't help, but....personally>> having battled lyme in two dogs now for 10 years I know more>> about it than>> I'd like and even if abx are not all that healthy, to me the>> risk of that>> is less than that of the abx. My older dog is now testing>> negative for>> lyme. I don't think his went chronic. My younger seems to have gone>> chronic, probably due to having been vax'd by the breeder not>> too soon>> before he got bitten the first time. When I give doxy I also>> give mega>> doses of high grade human probiotics to protect the guts and>> liver support>> factors to support the liver. I just have seen too many dogs>> end up dying>> of lyme nephritis and people with bad fallout from lyme. I fear

Tick>> diseases more than most other things.>>>> We don't know enough about these TBDs yet and they can be very>> lethal. It>> is matter of picking your poison really. Abx are not great, but>> at least>> it is more of a known evil than the tick diseases...and I have>> no doubt>> there are tick diseases that we dont' even know exist yet.>>>> Not trying to be a rebel, just sharing a reason that explains lyme>> recurrence.>>>The Aireheads: A blonde and two airedales, Anne, Trevor (MEX, SAA, CGC,TDI, RN) and Neville (OA, OAJ, NAF, C-BAA, C-IAA, C-BSLA, C-ISLA, C-BJA,RN, AKC Star Puppy)"When someone asks me "what's it like having an airedale?' I respond"Imagine Robin with four legs and a tail. Only crazier."--quoted in Dog a Day

Calendar

[Guest guest]

What is ILADS...thanks!

>The Aireheads: A blonde and two airedales, Anne, Trevor (MEX, SAA, CGC,

TDI, RN) and Neville (OA, OAJ, NAF, C-BAA, C-IAA, C-BSLA, C-ISLA, C-BJA,

RN, AKC Star Puppy)

" When someone asks me " what's it like having an airedale?' I respond

" Imagine Robin with four legs and a tail. Only crazier. "

--quoted in Dog a Day Calendar

> ILADS has a good doctor referral system and there also seems

> to be info on various abx that are used on B burgdorfei in it's various

> forms,

> as well as those used on different TBDs.

>  

> So yes, there are other things you can use.

> And I'm very glad for the herbals recommended here.

> I believe ILADS folks do also suggest herbals for support.

>  

> You can download a lot of their 2011 Convention talks, for a fee of

> course.

> But one of them is homeopathic managment of lyme.

>  

> O

> Queens NY USA

>

[Guest guest]

International Lyme and Associated Disease Society. You can google it and explore the site.The members of this group seem to be in direct oppositionto those in the Infectious Diseases Association, and for the most part, the Center for Disease Control. They feel that most doctors are not acknowledging certain things such as: 1. The CDC approved Western Blot from 1994 is very outdated and incorrect.It leaves out testing bands for proteins specific to B.burgdorfei, the bacterium that causes lyme.This is because those proteins were causing false

positives in the vaccine they were developing;a vaccine that was recalled anyway. 2. The standard procedures for giving abx is not enough. They prefer giving more abx and differnet kinds to combat the differnet forms of lyme, like cyst and and slime forms. I know this is counterintuitive to the thinking here and normally I'd agree, but again, this is an exceptionally insidious organism and the organism itself is immunosupressive. OQueens NY USA

From: "chipsqur@..." <chipsqur@...> Vaccinations Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 5:33 AM Subject: Re: tick bite

What is ILADS...thanks!

>The Aireheads: A blonde and two airedales, Anne, Trevor (MEX, SAA, CGC,

TDI, RN) and Neville (OA, OAJ, NAF, C-BAA, C-IAA, C-BSLA, C-ISLA, C-BJA,

RN, AKC Star Puppy)

"When someone asks me "what's it like having an airedale?' I respond

"Imagine Robin with four legs and a tail. Only crazier."

--quoted in Dog a Day Calendar

> ILADS has a good doctor referral system and there also seems

> to be info on various abx that are used on B burgdorfei in it's various

> forms,

> as well as those used on different TBDs.

> Â

> So yes, there are other things you can use.

> And I'm very glad for the herbals recommended here.

> I believe ILADS folks do also suggest herbals for support.

> Â

> You can download a lot of their 2011 Convention talks, for a fee of

> course.

> But one of them is homeopathic managment of lyme.

> Â

> O

> Queens NY USA

>